Oct 16-18 Critical For Bangkok: Flood Crisis

[webfact]

FLOOD CRISIS

Oct 16-18 critical for capital

The Nation

Wider and worse levels of flooding in store as huge volumes of water head towards provinces

Residents of many provinces face imminent flooding - or the worsening of existing flooding - as massive amounts of water move towards their areas from parts further north. The run-off water is set to reach Bangkok between October 16 and 18, which is also the high-tide period.

"Floods will hit the capital for sure. It's just a question of where," Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute director Dr Royol Chitradon said yesterday.

Water management and drainage capacity would determine how serious the situation would be, he said.

According to the 24/7 Emergency Operations Centre for Floods, Storms and Landslides, pushing water out to sea will get much more difficult later this month because the seawater level is about to rise. The centre's deputy director, Wiboon Sa-nguanpong, said that by the time the huge amount of water being released from the Bhumibol and Pasak Jolasid dams reaches the lower Central region late next week, the high-tide period will have already begun.

"Overflowing [of rivers] will likely worsen," said Wiboon, who also heads the Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department.

Located in Lop Buri, the Pasak Jolasid Dam has been holding water at 136 per cent of its normal storage level. As of press time, it was releasing 950 cubic metres of water per second.

"During the next one or two days, it will be raining too. In fact, it looks set to pour down in many provinces in the Central region," Wiboon said.

Located in Tak, Bhumibol Dam has reached 98 per cent of its capacity and is now releasing water, forcing people living downstream to struggle with flooding. In Ban Tak district, where floodwaters are about one metre deep, people in 42 villages have had to travel around by boat.

"This is the worst flooding in 52 years. It's the worst since Bhumibol Dam was constructed," Ban Tak district chief Thanin Wichitrakoon said. He believed the floods would continue for a few more days, as the dam had been forced to release water.

Elsewhere, residents of many provinces were bracing for more serious floods as run-off water from the upper part of the country raced towards their areas.

Agriculture Minister Theera Wongsamut said that next Thursday or Friday, water would be flowing down the Chao Phraya River in Nakhon Sawan at a rate of between 4,500 and 5,500 cubic metres per second. The sheer scale of the water-flow rate means that more flooding was likely for those living along the river, he said.

Interior Ministry spokesman Pipatchau Paiboon said the governor of Nakhon Sawan had already been instructed to prepare residents for evacuation.

"Flooding will spread further in riverside provinces, starting with Nakhon Sawan and followed by Chai Nat," Theera said. To date, flooding has hit 28 provinces and affected more than 2.6 million people. The disaster has killed 244 people and left three missing. It is estimated that floods have already ravaged 7.5 million rai of farmland. As many as 182 roads are impassable due to deep floodwater levels.

Floods have left 1,215 factories submerged, affecting more than 41,000 workers. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday described the situation as "critical" and said she was quite worried about the upcoming storms. Royal Irrigation Department director-general Chalit Damrongsak, said the water volume is much larger than during last year's flooding.

Yingluck said that in flood-marooned areas, the urgent task was to deliver food. She instructed government agencies to co-ordinate with both private and public-sector organisations in their flood-relief operations.

Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee urged individuals and private firms to make their boats and vessels available for volunteer operations to push water out to sea.

"To join this programme, please call 1313," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-10-07

[Soutpeel]

"Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee urged individuals and private firms to make their boats and vessels available for volunteer operations to push water out to sea"

.....

[bluebluewater]

I guess everyone who is outta work or maybe just wants something to do could all go down to the river bank and, while using a spoon like a paddle, help push that water down stream. It would have about the same affect as those boats are going to have.

[Seri]

too dry during the dry season, too wet during rainy season. can't we find a balance?

[ratcatcher]

"Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee urged individuals and private firms to make their boats and vessels available for volunteer operations to push water out to sea"

.....

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

[Cayenne]

This government is making a mockery of people's intellect. With statements like this how can they be taken seriously?

[1bbcd5]

It is sad.

[alexakap]

"Floods will hit the capital for sure. It's just a question of where," Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute director Dr Royol Chitradon said yesterday.

Isnt't that a direct duty of Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute director Dr Royol Chitradon to know EXACTLY - where and when the water will fit the area of his duties?

TiT. This country and the LEVEL OF COMPETENCE of these ppl will never stop surprising me...

The ppl I am paying my taxes to.

The ppl who's so-called "rule" this country.

It is sad. Very sad.

[AleG]

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

Did he really suggest using barges to move water from Ayuttaya to the Gulf?

Because that "idea" makes for stupid what Stonhenge did for rocks.

Did the SCIENCE minister do the most basic arithmetic on the plan?

Let's see if I can walk him through it...

Let's assume a barge, going by memory and eye-balling but someone may want to give actual figures of a typical river barge, 15 meters beam, 50 meters length and a draft of a bit over 2 meters (hands over a dictionary to the swooning SCIENCE minister). So this barge could hold a volume of water of 50X15X2 = 1500 cubic meters, heck, let's round it up to 2000 cubic meters so as to not overload Khun Plodprasob neurons (yes, both of them).

So one barge could take 2000 cubic meters of water on one trip, let's assume the barge can make a roundtrip between Ayuttaya to the Gulf in 6 hours, that is, get to the flooded area, fill in with water, go down the river pump out the water and trudge up river to repeat the process.

Now let's assume ONE THOUSAND barges at the job, that would give one load of water every 21.6 seconds, that is 2000 cubic meters of water in 21.6 seconds, or 92.6 cubic meters of water per second being moved by this fantastic procession of barges, at an amazing cost and use of man power.

If I'm not mistaken the current flow of water in the Chao Phraya is 4000 to 4500 cubic meters per second, 92.6 cubic meters as a percentage of that flow (one could almost hear poor Plodprasob's head popping at this moment) is 2.3% of the current flow.

Now, if Plodprasob feels encouraged by what a little math can do he may feel enticed to apply some more sciency stuff to figure out how much would a thousand barges plodding up and down the river restrict the flow of water.

One can't but despair at having a Minister of SCIENCE uttering such moronic ideas.

[ParadiseLost]

This government is making a mockery of people's intellect. With statements like this how can they be taken seriously?

I think it only makes a mockery of the politicians' 'intellect'...

They truly believe what they are saying; not surprising when most office holders are there only because they are 'connected' with the right people. Qualifications are secondary and can be bought if needed.

[Soutpeel]

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

Did he really suggest using barges to move water from Ayuttaya to the Gulf?

Because that "idea" makes for stupid what Stonhenge did for rocks.

Did the SCIENCE minister do the most basic arithmetic on the plan?

Let's see if I can walk him through it...

Let's assume a barge, going by memory and eye-balling but someone may want to give actual figures of a typical river barge, 15 meters beam, 50 meters length and a draft of a bit over 2 meters (hands over a dictionary to the swooning SCIENCE minister). So this barge could hold a volume of water of 50X15X2 = 1500 cubic meters, heck, let's round it up to 2000 cubic meters so as to not overload Khun Plodprasob neurons (yes, both of them).

So one barge could take 2000 cubic meters of water on one trip, let's assume the barge can make a roundtrip between Ayuttaya to the Gulf in 6 hours, that is, get to the flooded area, fill in with water, go down the river pump out the water and trudge up river to repeat the process.

Now let's assume ONE THOUSAND barges at the job, that would give one load of water every 21.6 seconds, that is 2000 cubic meters of water in 21.6 seconds, or 92.6 cubic meters of water per second being moved by this fantastic procession of barges, at an amazing cost and use of man power.

If I'm not mistaken the current flow of water in the Chao Phraya is 4000 to 4500 cubic meters per second, 92.6 cubic meters as a percentage of that flow (one could almost hear poor Plodprasob's head popping at this moment) is 2.3% of the current flow.

Now, if Plodprasob feels encouraged by what a little math can do he may feel enticed to apply some more sciency stuff to figure out how much would a thousand barges plodding up and down the river restrict the flow of water.

One can't but despair at having a Minister of SCIENCE uttering such moronic ideas.

Mate,

The mathamatical basis to prove the esteemed minister is out of his head has been done to exhaustion on another thread regarding using barge props to increase the flowrate of the river (use the search).....

What may interest you however is that his mobile phone number is also posted, so maybe want to give him a call and put him straight, but of course I expect the response you would be get from esteemed minister will be to agree with you if this was a farang river we are talking about, but this is a Thai river, which is not the same as a farang river....

[justaphase]

The barges are just to increase the flow aren't they? Churn it out to sea. Does it say they're gonna fill them?

Ive got 2.5 metres of water outside my window flowing like i dont know what..quite frankly I don't give a <deleted> what they do as long as its quick!!!!

[ParadiseLost]

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

Did he really suggest using barges to move water from Ayuttaya to the Gulf?

Because that "idea" makes for stupid what Stonhenge did for rocks.

...

One can't but despair at having a Minister of SCIENCE uttering such moronic ideas.

To be fair I don't think this was actually proposed.

Hypothetically speaking then - no maths really necessary; the weight of the water in the vessel would increase the draught and therefore displace the same volume - with no change to river level?

[siampolee]

Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee urged individuals and private firms to make their boats and vessels available for volunteer operations to push water out to sea.

This character is indeed very mentally challenged to say the least. He should be seeking treatment as he plainly is in need of it.

As an aside I was in my local barbers shop yesterday when on came the television news and clips of the boat moored in Ayuttaya with their props turning. It took some ten minutes for the three residents barbers to stop laughing and dry their eyes and compose themselves before hairdressing activities could restart.

Their comments were that it was indeed the funniest thing they had ever seen and totally useless.

[moe666]

As long as it makes them feel good

[Soutpeel]

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

Did he really suggest using barges to move water from Ayuttaya to the Gulf?

Because that "idea" makes for stupid what Stonhenge did for rocks.

...

One can't but despair at having a Minister of SCIENCE uttering such moronic ideas.

To be fair I don't think this was actually proposed.

Hypothetically speaking then - no maths really necessary; the weight of the water in the vessel would increase the draught and therefore displace the same volume - with no change to river level?

I have figured out their master plan.... ......they are going fill the condoms they have supplied with flood water to decrease the levels of the rivers......

[siampolee]

Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee

If brains were dynamite he still wouldn't be able to blow his nose.

[scotbeve]

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

Did he really suggest using barges to move water from Ayuttaya to the Gulf?

Because that "idea" makes for stupid what Stonhenge did for rocks.

Did the SCIENCE minister do the most basic arithmetic on the plan?

Let's see if I can walk him through it...

Let's assume a barge, going by memory and eye-balling but someone may want to give actual figures of a typical river barge, 15 meters beam, 50 meters length and a draft of a bit over 2 meters (hands over a dictionary to the swooning SCIENCE minister). So this barge could hold a volume of water of 50X15X2 = 1500 cubic meters, heck, let's round it up to 2000 cubic meters so as to not overload Khun Plodprasob neurons (yes, both of them).

So one barge could take 2000 cubic meters of water on one trip, let's assume the barge can make a roundtrip between Ayuttaya to the Gulf in 6 hours, that is, get to the flooded area, fill in with water, go down the river pump out the water and trudge up river to repeat the process.

Now let's assume ONE THOUSAND barges at the job, that would give one load of water every 21.6 seconds, that is 2000 cubic meters of water in 21.6 seconds, or 92.6 cubic meters of water per second being moved by this fantastic procession of barges, at an amazing cost and use of man power.

If I'm not mistaken the current flow of water in the Chao Phraya is 4000 to 4500 cubic meters per second, 92.6 cubic meters as a percentage of that flow (one could almost hear poor Plodprasob's head popping at this moment) is 2.3% of the current flow.

Now, if Plodprasob feels encouraged by what a little math can do he may feel enticed to apply some more sciency stuff to figure out how much would a thousand barges plodding up and down the river restrict the flow of water.

One can't but despair at having a Minister of SCIENCE uttering such moronic ideas.

Mate,

The mathamatical basis to prove the esteemed minister is out of his head has been done to exhaustion on another thread regarding using barge props to increase the flowrate of the river (use the search).....

What may interest you however is that his mobile phone number is also posted, so maybe want to give him a call and put him straight, but of course I expect the response you would be get from esteemed minister will be to agree with you if this was a farang river we are talking about, but this is a Thai river, which is not the same as a farang river....

Brill!!!!!

[Skywalker69]

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

Did he really suggest using barges to move water from Ayuttaya to the Gulf?

Because that "idea" makes for stupid what Stonhenge did for rocks.

Did the SCIENCE minister do the most basic arithmetic on the plan?

Let's see if I can walk him through it...

Let's assume a barge, going by memory and eye-balling but someone may want to give actual figures of a typical river barge, 15 meters beam, 50 meters length and a draft of a bit over 2 meters (hands over a dictionary to the swooning SCIENCE minister). So this barge could hold a volume of water of 50X15X2 = 1500 cubic meters, heck, let's round it up to 2000 cubic meters so as to not overload Khun Plodprasob neurons (yes, both of them).

So one barge could take 2000 cubic meters of water on one trip, let's assume the barge can make a roundtrip between Ayuttaya to the Gulf in 6 hours, that is, get to the flooded area, fill in with water, go down the river pump out the water and trudge up river to repeat the process.

Now let's assume ONE THOUSAND barges at the job, that would give one load of water every 21.6 seconds, that is 2000 cubic meters of water in 21.6 seconds, or 92.6 cubic meters of water per second being moved by this fantastic procession of barges, at an amazing cost and use of man power.

If I'm not mistaken the current flow of water in the Chao Phraya is 4000 to 4500 cubic meters per second, 92.6 cubic meters as a percentage of that flow (one could almost hear poor Plodprasob's head popping at this moment) is 2.3% of the current flow.

Now, if Plodprasob feels encouraged by what a little math can do he may feel enticed to apply some more sciency stuff to figure out how much would a thousand barges plodding up and down the river restrict the flow of water.

One can't but despair at having a Minister of SCIENCE uttering such moronic ideas.

His neurons must have gone on vacation, both of them.

[Prairieboy]

The barges are just to increase the flow aren't they? Churn it out to sea. Does it say they're gonna fill them?

Ive got 2.5 metres of water outside my window flowing like i dont know what..quite frankly I don't give a <deleted> what they do as long as its quick!!!!

The only option is to wait - can't control mother nature.

[plumeria]

The barges are just to increase the flow aren't they? Churn it out to sea. Does it say they're gonna fill them?

Ive got 2.5 metres of water outside my window flowing like i dont know what..quite frankly I don't give a <deleted> what they do as long as its quick!!!!

Posters including WHERE and WHEN with their reports of flooding would be very helpful and useful since it's very difficult to find reliable forecasts of what is going to happen in what areas in the days ahead so we can plan.

I love the imaginary line dividing the flooded and non-flooded areas on both sides of Ramindra Road.

There is no geographical reason the eastern side would be flooded but the western side would not so I have no idea what is really going on.

I am tempted to go and look since I can't get much info otherwise.

[Crushdepth]

"Floods will hit the capital for sure. It's just a question of where," Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute director Dr Royol Chitradon said yesterday.

Isnt't that a direct duty of Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute director Dr Royol Chitradon to know EXACTLY - where and when the water will fit the area of his duties?

TiT. This country and the LEVEL OF COMPETENCE of these ppl will never stop surprising me...

The ppl I am paying my taxes to.

The ppl who's so-called "rule" this country.

It is sad. Very sad.

He is quite competent actually. Do you think politicians will let such people do their jobs?

[ratcatcher]

The barges are just to increase the flow aren't they? Churn it out to sea. Does it say they're gonna fill them?

Ive got 2.5 metres of water outside my window flowing like i dont know what..quite frankly I don't give a <deleted> what they do as long as its quick!!!!

The only option is to wait - can't control mother nature.

There is actually nothing the government can do to speed the drainage.

The Chao Phraya river flows at a rate according to the tide level at the mouth of the river. No amount of propeller spinning will make it move any faster.

It is a bit like having a bath full of water, it can only drain as fast as the drainpipe can carry the water away. Right now the bathtub is overflowing onto the bathroom floor.

But the good minister being, I assume, an intelligent man, already knows this as well as the fact that barges don''t have props.

The government's job is to assist the hundreds of thousands of desperate people whose homes and property have been inundated with massive amounts of water.

That will be their test. Not pointless projects.

[h90]

The barges are just to increase the flow aren't they? Churn it out to sea. Does it say they're gonna fill them?

Ive got 2.5 metres of water outside my window flowing like i dont know what..quite frankly I don't give a <deleted> what they do as long as its quick!!!!

The only option is to wait - can't control mother nature.

There is actually nothing the government can do to speed the drainage.

The Chao Phraya river flows at a rate according to the tide level at the mouth of the river. No amount of propeller spinning will make it move any faster.

It is a bit like having a bath full of water, it can only drain as fast as the drainpipe can carry the water away. Right now the bathtub is overflowing onto the bathroom floor.

But the good minister being, I assume, an intelligent man, already knows this as well as the fact that barges don''t have props.

The government's job is to assist the hundreds of thousands of desperate people whose homes and property have been inundated with massive amounts of water.

That will be their test. Not pointless projects.

Of course you can make it faster with propeller, but the possible amount of propeller is like taking a tea spoon.

If you would have thousands of big strong propeller you could lower the water before them and make it higher after by using the electric of a couple of nuclear power plants.

Theoretically possible practically nonsense

[WarpSpeed]

"Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee urged individuals and private firms to make their boats and vessels available for volunteer operations to push water out to sea"

.....

Yeah a bit laughable at this point, if it were funny . I think their boats would be put to better use in ferrying supplies and stranded people, it may have had some relevance before the flood gates were opened but now the scope has gone beyond any such human intervention..A drop of wee in a pool I'm afraid ..

Edited October 7, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[plumeria]

Was surprised to see flood water approaching from north and east of Bangkok, not down the Chaophraya River. Blue is flood water, of course.

[WarpSpeed]

I think Mr P S may previously have had the idea of loading hundreds of rice barges with water in Ayuttaya area and then sending them downriver to be emptied in the gulf,

but obviously he is unaware of the fact that water will only flow as fast as it can when outflow at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river is restricted by the sea and the tide level..

Did he really suggest using barges to move water from Ayuttaya to the Gulf?

Because that "idea" makes for stupid what Stonhenge did for rocks.

...

One can't but despair at having a Minister of SCIENCE uttering such moronic ideas.

To be fair I don't think this was actually proposed.

Hypothetically speaking then - no maths really necessary; the weight of the water in the vessel would increase the draught and therefore displace the same volume - with no change to river level?

I have figured out their master plan.... ......they are going fill the condoms they have supplied with flood water to decrease the levels of the rivers......

Thai size or western?

[plumeria]

According to this map report, various sections of Ramindra Road are already flooded as well as Synphaet and Paolo Memorial Nawamin Hospital. Phone calls to the hospitals were not answered so could not confirm actual situation.

[plumeria]

Flood approach from east. Edited October 7, 2011 by plumeria

[WarpSpeed]

According to this map report, various sections of Ramindra Road are already flooded as well as Synphaet and Paolo Memorial Nawamin Hospital. Phone calls to the hospitals were not answered so could not confirm actual situation.

Where is this map? can you please post a link?