Thinking About Relocating Fron H.Hin To C.M

[expatsally]

Hi there,

We've been living in Hua Hin for 5 yrs. now and thinking about making a move.

We have visited, as tourists, C.M. about 4 times over the past 17 years. I think the last time was in 2006. We always loved it there but thought we needed to live closer to Bkk to receive family from the West.

I'm sure all of you Chiang Mai folks are sick of hearing people ask about the air quality, but here it goes....is it really that bad? All our visits there , I can't remember 1 time even noticing it and we have been in Dec. Jan. Feb. I guess it's a hot season thing March/ April thing? Stay inside with the a/c those months or get the hell out of Thailand?

Also the seafood in H.H. is fabulous because we are right on the sea. Any fresh mkts. there with it or only at the big chain stores, expensive?

I would appreciate any info, rents here are about 15,000 bt. a month for 3bd/2ba and we are lucky enough to have one in a pool village w/security. I would love to exchange any info about H.H. as well....

Thanks a lot....

[MangoAndCo]

In 2009 and 2010 the air was really bad, pain in my eyes, throat etc. I went to the south (islands and Hua Hin ;-) to escape from it.

In 2011 no air pollution. So it really differs from year to year.

[Mapguy]

Hi Sally,

Leaving the sun and surf !!!! I miss it!!

Mid-February - Mid-April normally has fairly high air pollution. We hope things are improving, but 2011 was quite clear thanks mainly to early periodic rains. Lots of threads on all that.

Not so pricey as in Hui Hin, but it depends on where and how you live. Up to you. Lots of threads on that, too, covering food and restaurants (favourite topics here), pollution, rain, and housing.

Speaking of rain, you might want to bring your boat.

[junglechef]

I moved from HH to CM and love it here. Do miss the seafood but lots of fresh water alternatives that are also great esp. the prawns and snakehead fish. I Mt. Bike and found that as long I don't go out on the worst air quality days it's ok and the temp. is so much more to my liking here

[seesip]

There's a couple of really good seafood restaurants in CM that fly up fresh fish from down south. One is called 'Phuket Seafood' and the prices are decent. Another is Similan. Question about HH how is the weather/water right now? Thinking of heading down for 3-4 days but not sure if it's worth it and also wondering if flooding is an issue. Thanks.

[ARISTIDE]

You must try Samyaan Seafood (old Buonissimo place) as good as Huahin

There's a couple of really good seafood restaurants in CM that fly up fresh fish from down south. One is called 'Phuket Seafood' and the prices are decent. Another is Similan. Question about HH how is the weather/water right now? Thinking of heading down for 3-4 days but not sure if it's worth it and also wondering if flooding is an issue. Thanks.

[expatsally]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply s. Map Guy, why did you move from H.H.? If you miss it so much why don't you move back? Sounds like you have more change in temps there, are there good places to rent up in the hills out side town?

Seesip, we have no flooding issues what so ever here, in fact, it hardly ever rains here. We keep waiting for monsoon season to start but yesterday was sunny and about 85F/30 C. Today we finally see a little drizzle and overcast skies, but most of the time, this time of year, we get sun until about 3 and then we see some clouds come in and sometimes it even rains! It is the driest part of Thailand. The beaches here are crap tho, better to get to one of the islands near Choumpon about 3 hrs away.

Still unsure about the move up North.........

[Thighlander]

A friend of mine was a builder at Takiab. I would take CNX any day of the week. Fresh squid is cool, though. 40 THB for an ear of corn in HH on the beach...don't ever recall it being more than 10 in CNX.

[Priceless]

"I'm sure all of you Chiang Mai folks are sick of hearing people ask about the air quality, but here it goes....is it really that bad?"

Short answer: No, it is not.

Long answer:

To put things into perspective, their are two "limits" in the Pollution Control Department's standard for Particulate Matter pollution. The first is for yearly average level at 50 µg/m³. The other is for 24-hour average at 120 µg/m³. As far as I understand, but I have no medical background, the reasons for having two limits is that the 24-hour level is what triggers acute problems for people with pre-existing problems such as asthma. The yearly level is what may over time cause chronic problems, such as respiratory or cardio-vascular illnesses.

The figures for Chiang Mai since 1 January 2000 are a yearly average of 45 µg/m³ and 16 "bad days" (i.e. >120 µg/m³) per year. This you can compare to e.g. Din Daeng (BKK) with 67 µg/m³ and 30 days, Chon Buri with 51 µg/m³ and 15 days and the really horrible one, Sara Buri with 96 µg/m³ and 99 days.

The thing about Chiang Mai is that the seasonal variations are very significant, with a peak from about mid-February to the end of March. If you like graphs, you can see it in greater detail here:

Another thing to consider is that the above is about averages since 2000. There is, however, a rather strong positive trend that is important if you are considering relocating here. Here's another graph that demonstrates this:

As you can see, the trend has fallen from a yearly average of ~56 µg/m³ in mid-2004 to ~35 µg/m³ by the end of this year. Odds are that if/when we get another "bad year", it will be significantly less bad than earlier ones such as 2004 and 2007. However, I do NOT give any guarantees, explicit or implicit

/ Priceless

Edited October 10, 2011 by Priceless

[Pearlgirl]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply s. Map Guy, why did you move from H.H.? If you miss it so much why don't you move back? Sounds like you have more change in temps there, are there good places to rent up in the hills out side town?

Seesip, we have no flooding issues what so ever here, in fact, it hardly ever rains here. We keep waiting for monsoon season to start but yesterday was sunny and about 85F/30 C. Today we finally see a little drizzle and overcast skies, but most of the time, this time of year, we get sun until about 3 and then we see some clouds come in and sometimes it even rains! It is the driest part of Thailand. The beaches here are crap tho, better to get to one of the islands near Choumpon about 3 hrs away.

Still unsure about the move up North.........

Hi

My husband and I moved to CM about a year and a half ago - we haven't loved anywhere else in Thailand, but I can tell you we love it here. We've been coming to Thailand for about 7 years and decided to finall make a permanent move here and chose CM, so I can't really compare with the south, but I have been south a number of times and different times of the year and I absolutely confirm that the weather here is much much nicer than the south, although this year we seem to be getting a lot of rain.

The people here, Thais and farangs, seem to be much friendlier and more sociable than in the south, the food/restaurants are plentiful and a lot of very good ones - cheap and expensive. There's always somewhere to go and tour around, its a great place to have visitors come and stay with you because there's no shortage of things to do. There's a lot of rental properties available in all sorts of areas here - inside walled moo baans or out in the hills and the rents vary widely depending on what you want and where you want to live. Of course whats missing is the beaches and ocean, but CM has a lot to offer. Everything you could possibly want or need is available here as well. If you're really having some doubt about moving here, maybe come to CM for a month or so, rent a furnished apartment and try "living here" for the month - get involved in some of the many clubs/social societies, travel around the area and get to know them a bit better, buy and cook some of your own food, try out the many restaurants, sitesee, etc. etc. As for the pollution, we live outside the city and are surrounded by rice fields but really haven't noticed much pollution. There is the usual field burnings at differen times of the year but even that seems to have changed.

Good luck with your decision. Give it a try though - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Greenside]

My husband and I moved to CM about a year and a half ago - we haven't loved anywhere else in Thailand, but I can tell you we love it here.

That's the spirit - save all your loving for Chiang Mai!

[expatsally]

Thanks everyone for your responses, will definitely come back again and look around with different eyes.

I'm a Northern California gal and have never lived farther than 20 min. from the beach in my 46 years, but am willing to try.

Would be nice to go to a place with actual movie theaters without dubbing in Thai, and it seems you have a variety of ethnic restaurants, something surely lacking here, although slowly starting to happen.

I see that you have several outdoor Thai mkts. It is something we have here that is really great for us as we do most cooking at home. Are most Thai mkts. outside the city? Farther in the countryside or scattered around.....

Thanks for all your help guys,

[nikster]

CM is awesome, love it here.

Pollution is a real problem - we leave from mid March to mid April, went to HH last year. If you open your eyes and ears, during those months everybody is coughing, and hospitals are overflowing with people with respiratory problems. After April it's all gone and air is fine again though.

Weather this year was odd - it rained a lot everywhere in Thailand during that time, and that's what kept the pollution in the north at bay. We even had a couple very cold rainy days in HH.

[LivinLOS]

I never felt the appeal of hua hin to live there, have mates who do, but just never grabbed me as a combination of amenities that I liked. To sound really picky the sea is the wrong shade of blue (I said it was picky) if your going to live near an ocean, I want to live near a deep aquamarine ocean, not a grey muddy one which is how I kind of saw HH every time. It never made me want to dive in and go snorkeling or swim to an offshore rock kinda vibe.

I have only done 1 year up north, and this year the air pollution, which I was so concerned about, was almost a non issue.. Couple of very hazy days, maybe a few weeks of less than clear visibility, but nothing that effected my life or made me think about taking a vacation. I admit this may not be a normal year. Its been a very wet year up here, just a little too much some weeks for me, but rough with the smooth.

What no one is really mentioning, which I think is Chiang Mais greatest asset, is the people themselves. They havent all flooded here to take advantage of a tourist market, the rip off and gouge mindset is not the same (sure theres some farang price, but not in any way the same level), I havent felt a single experience of hostility here, where I as having issues near weekly in Phuket which become depressing, I ended up retreating for interaction with locals and shutting myself off as a defense mechanism as much as I could there.

Southern Thais take pride in their blunt, tough, scary reputation, lanna Thais seem to take pride in being civil, polite, and soft spoken to strangers. I wont pretend everyone is an angel, my rose tinted glasses wore out a long time ago, but its such a huge psychic weight off my shoulders to not feel in conflict with everyone around me. I think many CM residents dont know how lucky they are, as it takes a while residing down south to get through the tourist mode and see how they treat (and speak about) you. Great things that happen to me any time I explore the country (Thais asking about my bikes, offering me to have a glass of whisky or beer with them, genuine nice interactions) That literally doesnt happen down south, theres usually some stink eye or keying your vehicle for parking on their turf. There they actively seem to want to say 'no', to want to jump out and tell you to move from public parking because its 'theirs', want to make life hard for you born from some kind of economic resentment I guess.

Sure I miss the ocean, sailing, a day at the beach.. But I can go on holiday to there. My day to day life up north is so much less stressed, has no conflict, has a smile back on my face.. People just give you that little bit of human respect that for me makes the world go round so much easier.

Its made me do what I said I never would here, which is to buy land (my wifes of course) to build my home.. This city (well the hills just near it) is home. I couldnt be happier I made the move.

[jackr]

Op, don't listen to the rabble, CM is a horrible place to live: pollution can come any time and is worse than Hong Kong/Beijing/Delhi, it always floods - the Night Bazaar was under 15 feet of water last week - temperatures are sub-zero Dec-Jan DURING THE DAY, it takes 5 hours just to do a 90-day report, the seafood's always off and prohibitively expensive, all the locals are non-smiling Chinese, and the elephants shower everyone with rat-infested klong water during Songkran. Are you sure you'd want to trade peaceful HH for all that!

[seesip]

well done

Op, don't listen to the rabble, CM is a horrible place to live: pollution can come any time and is worse than Hong Kong/Beijing/Delhi, it always floods - the Night Bazaar was under 15 feet of water last week - temperatures are sub-zero Dec-Jan DURING THE DAY, it takes 5 hours just to do a 90-day report, the seafood's always off and prohibitively expensive, all the locals are non-smiling Chinese, and the elephants shower everyone with rat-infested klong water during Songkran. Are you sure you'd want to trade peaceful HH for all that!

[jackr]

Southern Thais take pride in their blunt, tough, scary reputation, lanna Thais seem to take pride in being civil, polite, and soft spoken to strangers. I wont pretend everyone is an angel, my rose tinted glasses wore out a long time ago, but its such a huge psychic weight off my shoulders to not feel in conflict with everyone around me. I think many CM residents dont know how lucky they are, as it takes a while residing down south to get through the tourist mode and see how they treat (and speak about) you. Great things that happen to me any time I explore the country (Thais asking about my bikes, offering me to have a glass of whisky or beer with them, genuine nice interactions) That literally doesnt happen down south, theres usually some stink eye or keying your vehicle for parking on their turf. There they actively seem to want to say 'no', to want to jump out and tell you to move from public parking because its 'theirs', want to make life hard for you born from some kind of economic resentment I guess.

I take it you're talking about Phuket Thais here as opposed to southern Thais in general? And bearing in mind that many of the Thais living in Phuket are actually from elsewhere. I lived in Songkhla for a few years and found the people the warmest, most genuine of anywhere in Thailand, including Chiang Mai. Hat Yai was a different kettle of fish though. I find the locals here slightly harder faced than down south; perhaps more of that Chinese mindset.

[Ulysses G.]

Op, don't listen to the rabble, CM is a horrible place to live: pollution can come any time and is worse than Hong Kong/Beijing/Delhi, it always floods - the Night Bazaar was under 15 feet of water last week - temperatures are sub-zero Dec-Jan DURING THE DAY, it takes 5 hours just to do a 90-day report, the seafood's always off and prohibitively expensive, all the locals are non-smiling Chinese, and the elephants shower everyone with rat-infested klong water during Songkran. Are you sure you'd want to trade peaceful HH for all that!

Don't forget that the pollution is like Chernobyl on a bad day.

[LivinLOS]

Southern Thais take pride in their blunt, tough, scary reputation, lanna Thais seem to take pride in being civil, polite, and soft spoken to strangers. I wont pretend everyone is an angel, my rose tinted glasses wore out a long time ago, but its such a huge psychic weight off my shoulders to not feel in conflict with everyone around me. I think many CM residents dont know how lucky they are, as it takes a while residing down south to get through the tourist mode and see how they treat (and speak about) you. Great things that happen to me any time I explore the country (Thais asking about my bikes, offering me to have a glass of whisky or beer with them, genuine nice interactions) That literally doesnt happen down south, theres usually some stink eye or keying your vehicle for parking on their turf. There they actively seem to want to say 'no', to want to jump out and tell you to move from public parking because its 'theirs', want to make life hard for you born from some kind of economic resentment I guess.

I take it you're talking about Phuket Thais here as opposed to southern Thais in general? And bearing in mind that many of the Thais living in Phuket are actually from elsewhere. I lived in Songkhla for a few years and found the people the warmest, most genuine of anywhere in Thailand, including Chiang Mai. Hat Yai was a different kettle of fish though. I find the locals here slightly harder faced than down south; perhaps more of that Chinese mindset.

Yes I was talking Phuket, but the tough scary reputation act seems to go with the Surat / Nakhon si Tamarrat / Etc area from Chumpon to Trang. The spoken Thai from that part of the country is also much harsher and gutteral. Leang thai v Ung Thai I think.

But true get out of the tourist zones, and to where people there basically come from there, and theres not quite the same harshness. I too have spent bits of time and quite enjoy Song Khla.. Not much 'there' tho..

[fritter1970]

ChiangMai is a terrific place. But you have highlighted the two negatives youwill encounter living here.

NorthernThailand is in the path of the jetstream from India and as such it suffers aconstant airflow of the enormous amount of pollution released from there.

SouthernThailand avoids this jetstream and actually has very good quality air.

I havereservations about eating the seafood in Northern Thailand as I can not see howit could possibly be worth the expense for it to be flown here from the south. Let's be honest, the "seafood" in Northern Thailand comes frompolluted fish farms and shouldn't be touched with a barge poll.

Bottomline - apart from the seafood and horrid air - Chiang Mai is a fantastic placeto live.

[Priceless]

[...]

NorthernThailand is in the path of the jetstream from India and as such it suffers aconstant airflow of the enormous amount of pollution released from there.

SouthernThailand avoids this jetstream and actually has very good quality air.

[...]

That is an interesting theory that I have never heard before. Furthermore, I have never heard of any significant quantities of Particulate Matter (PM) appearing at jet stream altitudes (subtropical jets appear at 33,000-52,000 ft).

It seems much more realistic to assume that the PM encountered in Northern Thailand comes from burning of different kinds (agricultural, forest fires etc) in the closer region, largely in Burma and Laos.

You are right though that Southern Thailand (provided you mean the West coast, the eastern seaboard is quite polluted) suffers less from PM pollution. However, the most polluted part of Thailand is, as one might expect, the Central region with its concentrations of industry.

/ Priceless

[jonwilly]

How folk react to Air Quality varies from person to person.

I suffer badly and go away when the quality deteriorates early in year.

Cha Am has twice been my base during this time.

I have two friends who also suffer but who remain for 'Business/Family' reasons.

Most folk I know find the climate acceptable year round.

john

CM is a decent place to live.

[fritter1970]

[...]

NorthernThailand is in the path of the jetstream from India and as such it suffers aconstant airflow of the enormous amount of pollution released from there.

SouthernThailand avoids this jetstream and actually has very good quality air.

[...]

That is an interesting theory that I have never heard before. Furthermore, I have never heard of any significant quantities of Particulate Matter (PM) appearing at jet stream altitudes (subtropical jets appear at 33,000-52,000 ft).

It seems much more realistic to assume that the PM encountered in Northern Thailand comes from burning of different kinds (agricultural, forest fires etc) in the closer region, largely in Burma and Laos.

You are right though that Southern Thailand (provided you mean the West coast, the eastern seaboard is quite polluted) suffers less from PM pollution. However, the most polluted part of Thailand is, as one might expect, the Central region with its concentrations of industry.

/ Priceless

Particulate Matter most certainly appears at jet stream altitude. Note: Volcanic eruptions effecting global climate, Chernobyl radioactive material being found all over the globe. As per these examples - and the prevailing movement of global winds moving from west to east - it is blatantly obvious that polluting material from the 1 billion plus population of India moves via Northern Thailand.

To understand the impact this has on the human lung is, quite simply, mind blowing. A lung exposed to clean air is a completely different colour compared to a lung exposed to polluted air. A healthy lung being a pink colour whereas a lung from an area exposed to pollution being a sickening gray colour.

As for Southern Thailand, the air quality does not differ from the east coast compared to the west coast. This is due to, as stated, the global weather migrating from a westerly to easterly direction, and Southern Thailand being south of the prevailing air movement originating in India.

No doubt about it, if you want healthy lungs then stay in Hua Hin. If you want sickly dark gray lungs, then Chiang Mai is for you.

[Priceless]

[...]

NorthernThailand is in the path of the jetstream from India and as such it suffers aconstant airflow of the enormous amount of pollution released from there.

SouthernThailand avoids this jetstream and actually has very good quality air.

[...]

That is an interesting theory that I have never heard before. Furthermore, I have never heard of any significant quantities of Particulate Matter (PM) appearing at jet stream altitudes (subtropical jets appear at 33,000-52,000 ft).

It seems much more realistic to assume that the PM encountered in Northern Thailand comes from burning of different kinds (agricultural, forest fires etc) in the closer region, largely in Burma and Laos.

You are right though that Southern Thailand (provided you mean the West coast, the eastern seaboard is quite polluted) suffers less from PM pollution. However, the most polluted part of Thailand is, as one might expect, the Central region with its concentrations of industry.

/ Priceless

Particulate Matter most certainly appears at jet stream altitude. Note: Volcanic eruptions effecting global climate, Chernobyl radioactive material being found all over the globe. As per these examples - and the prevailing movement of global winds moving from west to east - it is blatantly obvious that polluting material from the 1 billion plus population of India moves via Northern Thailand.

To understand the impact this has on the human lung is, quite simply, mind blowing. A lung exposed to clean air is a completely different colour compared to a lung exposed to polluted air. A healthy lung being a pink colour whereas a lung from an area exposed to pollution being a sickening gray colour.

As for Southern Thailand, the air quality does not differ from the east coast compared to the west coast. This is due to, as stated, the global weather migrating from a westerly to easterly direction, and Southern Thailand being south of the prevailing air movement originating in India.

No doubt about it, if you want healthy lungs then stay in Hua Hin. If you want sickly dark gray lungs, then Chiang Mai is for you.

Please note that I said "significant quantities of Particulate Matter". I still doubt that jet streams play a major role in this. As for volcanoes, such creatures tend to spew their stuff high into the air, e.g. the Eyjafjallajökull eruption in 2010. This is rather different from the smoke from millions of wood-fired stoves in India. As for Chernobyl, radioactive substances unfortunately cause harmful effects in much lower concentrations than does Particulate Matter.

If you say that "the air quality does not differ from the east coast compared to the west coast" I am willing to believe you. I don't have much data on the west coast in my database, but I do regularly follow Chon Buri on the east coast. If you had read my first post, you would have seen that air pollution in Chon Buri is not much different from that in Chiang Mai. Since 1 January 2000 the average PM10 level in Chiang Mai has been 45.1 µg/m³, while it has been 50.8 in Chon Buri. The average yearly number of "bad days" (i.e. with PM10 in excess of 120 µg/m³) per year has been 15.8 in Chiang Mai and 14.5 in Chon Buri. The worst yearly average to date in Chiang Mai was 2004 with 60.1 µg/m³ while it was 2007 in Chon Buri with 81.2 µg/m³. During the latest twelve months, i.e. to 30 September 2011, the Chiang Mai average has been 32.4 µg/m³ while it has been 31.3 in Chon Buri. (All the raw data from the PCD website http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/QueryAir.cfm?task=default) All in all fairly similar results between the two locations, with both long-term and worst-year averages higher for Chon Buri.

I am however not saying that your jet stream theory is wrong, only that I have never heard of it before and that I personally find it unlikely.

/ Priceless

[fritter1970]

[...]

NorthernThailand is in the path of the jetstream from India and as such it suffers aconstant airflow of the enormous amount of pollution released from there.

SouthernThailand avoids this jetstream and actually has very good quality air.

[...]

That is an interesting theory that I have never heard before. Furthermore, I have never heard of any significant quantities of Particulate Matter (PM) appearing at jet stream altitudes (subtropical jets appear at 33,000-52,000 ft).

It seems much more realistic to assume that the PM encountered in Northern Thailand comes from burning of different kinds (agricultural, forest fires etc) in the closer region, largely in Burma and Laos.

You are right though that Southern Thailand (provided you mean the West coast, the eastern seaboard is quite polluted) suffers less from PM pollution. However, the most polluted part of Thailand is, as one might expect, the Central region with its concentrations of industry.

/ Priceless

Particulate Matter most certainly appears at jet stream altitude. Note: Volcanic eruptions effecting global climate, Chernobyl radioactive material being found all over the globe. As per these examples - and the prevailing movement of global winds moving from west to east - it is blatantly obvious that polluting material from the 1 billion plus population of India moves via Northern Thailand.

To understand the impact this has on the human lung is, quite simply, mind blowing. A lung exposed to clean air is a completely different colour compared to a lung exposed to polluted air. A healthy lung being a pink colour whereas a lung from an area exposed to pollution being a sickening gray colour.

As for Southern Thailand, the air quality does not differ from the east coast compared to the west coast. This is due to, as stated, the global weather migrating from a westerly to easterly direction, and Southern Thailand being south of the prevailing air movement originating in India.

No doubt about it, if you want healthy lungs then stay in Hua Hin. If you want sickly dark gray lungs, then Chiang Mai is for you.

Please note that I said "significant quantities of Particulate Matter". I still doubt that jet streams play a major role in this. As for volcanoes, such creatures tend to spew their stuff high into the air, e.g. the Eyjafjallajökull eruption in 2010. This is rather different from the smoke from millions of wood-fired stoves in India. As for Chernobyl, radioactive substances unfortunately cause harmful effects in much lower concentrations than does Particulate Matter.

If you say that "the air quality does not differ from the east coast compared to the west coast" I am willing to believe you. I don't have much data on the west coast in my database, but I do regularly follow Chon Buri on the east coast. If you had read my first post, you would have seen that air pollution in Chon Buri is not much different from that in Chiang Mai. Since 1 January 2000 the average PM10 level in Chiang Mai has been 45.1 µg/m³, while it has been 50.8 in Chon Buri. The average yearly number of "bad days" (i.e. with PM10 in excess of 120 µg/m³) per year has been 15.8 in Chiang Mai and 14.5 in Chon Buri. The worst yearly average to date in Chiang Mai was 2004 with 60.1 µg/m³ while it was 2007 in Chon Buri with 81.2 µg/m³. During the latest twelve months, i.e. to 30 September 2011, the Chiang Mai average has been 32.4 µg/m³ while it has been 31.3 in Chon Buri. (All the raw data from the PCD website http://www.pcd.go.th...fm?task=default) All in all fairly similar results between the two locations, with both long-term and worst-year averages higher for Chon Buri.

I am however not saying that your jet stream theory is wrong, only that I have never heard of it before and that I personally find it unlikely.

/ Priceless

I have to offer my apologies. I thought when you said east coast you meant the east coast of the peninsula (e.g. Hua Hin, Suratthani etc). I would agree that that area around Chon Buri would have poorer quality air as it has major polluting industries.

[expatsally]

Wow a wee bit of sarcasm there.......

Op, don't listen to the rabble, CM is a horrible place to live: pollution can come any time and is worse than Hong Kong/Beijing/Delhi, it always floods - the Night Bazaar was under 15 feet of water last week - temperatures are sub-zero Dec-Jan DURING THE DAY, it takes 5 hours just to do a 90-day report, the seafood's always off and prohibitively expensive, all the locals are non-smiling Chinese, and the elephants shower everyone with rat-infested klong water during Songkran. Are you sure you'd want to trade peaceful HH for all that!

[elektrified]

Southern Thais take pride in their blunt, tough, scary reputation, lanna Thais seem to take pride in being civil, polite, and soft spoken to strangers. I wont pretend everyone is an angel, my rose tinted glasses wore out a long time ago, but its such a huge psychic weight off my shoulders to not feel in conflict with everyone around me. I think many CM residents dont know how lucky they are, as it takes a while residing down south to get through the tourist mode and see how they treat (and speak about) you. Great things that happen to me any time I explore the country (Thais asking about my bikes, offering me to have a glass of whisky or beer with them, genuine nice interactions) That literally doesnt happen down south, theres usually some stink eye or keying your vehicle for parking on their turf. There they actively seem to want to say 'no', to want to jump out and tell you to move from public parking because its 'theirs', want to make life hard for you born from some kind of economic resentment I guess.

I take it you're talking about Phuket Thais here as opposed to southern Thais in general? And bearing in mind that many of the Thais living in Phuket are actually from elsewhere. I lived in Songkhla for a few years and found the people the warmest, most genuine of anywhere in Thailand, including Chiang Mai. Hat Yai was a different kettle of fish though. I find the locals here slightly harder faced than down south; perhaps more of that Chinese mindset.

I would concur. People in Hat Yai, Songkhla, Pattani, and Narathiwat are some of the warmest and friendliest people I have met in Thailand. But people from Chiang Mai are so easygoing. I've never had any conflicts with anyone here.

OP, it's whatever suits you. Personally I don't like Hua Hin but I like Cha Am; although I doubt I could live there year-round. As another poster said, there is no end to the amount of activities to do and ways to entertain visitors in Chiang Mai. I never get bored here. There is always something to do and somewhere to see. I enjoy my time here always... But I do miss the beach and have to leave once a year for a week or so on one of the islands or along the coast to rejuvenate.

[jackr]

I too have spent bits of time and quite enjoy Song Khla.. Not much 'there' tho..

Very laid-back, but always hot and one prefers the mountains.