People Are Stockpiling Foods For Fear Of Bangkok Flooding

[IanForbes]

I wonder if they will be using float planes to land at Swampy airport? I would like to see how they attach floats to a 747.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I can't resist....

So I suppose the newspaper headline would read: "Swampy Swamped!"

[Guest]

When flooding occurs, virtually anywhere, even in countries with high quality water/sewer systems, what happens is seepage from sewage contaminates ground water, if the pressure of the ground water exceeds the internal pressure of the drinking water supply pipes, the seepage occurs from the outside (ground water) into the drinking water mains, contaminating the drinking water. Virtually all water supply and sewage systems leak due to movement of the pipes. It is normal to have drinking water supply lines next to sewage lines and normally nobody worries since the higher pressure in the water supply lines causes an outflow and prevents inflow from nearby sewage contaminated water. But in flooding pumps may fail, and the water pressure may drop even temporarily allowing contamination. Therefore during floods all drinking water from the potable water supply system, if it is still working, should be boiled (rolling boil) for two to five minutes. Ordinary 5% hypochlorite chlorine bleach (without perfume/color) can also be used. Add two drops per liter or quart, stir, let it sit for 30 minutes and smell it. There should be a mild chlorine smell, if not, add one more drop, stir and let it sit for 30 minutes.

Another potential problem is contracting leptospirosis from flood waters. Leptospirosis is a disease known by many names, in Asia Rat Fever and Paddy Fever. It is common (endemic) in rodents and other animals and is transmitted via urine, as long as the spirochete (a form/shape of bacteria) remains damp it can survive. It's main route into the body is via small cuts or scrapes, or through mucous membranes (eye/nose/throat/vagina). Thus wading through flood waters carries a risk. When Manila flooded in 2009 leptospirosis was a problem, especially because the form that occurred there was a high-mortality form. (Since many species of the genus leptospira can be present, some disease may be fairly mild in symptoms, and some severe. Some form can be equal or worse in severity to Dengue. Most recover, but fatalities occur. Symptoms may not appear for 5-7 days. I cringe to see photos of children playing in flood waters for this reason.

The car battery is a good idea, indeed there are even solar charging systems and 12-24v batteries sold to be used as back-up power. Many have gelled sulfuric acid, and thus cannot leak which can be a problem with car batteries. Also remember when charging indoors that the charging process creates hydrogen gas which, though not poisonous in the quantity generated can create high levels of hydrogen in the headspace of the battery, such that a nearby spark or ignition source can cause a serious explosion compounded by the sulfuric acid in the battery. Inverters that can change 12 or 24volt to 220v probably exist in Thailand. One mistake many make is to look at the ampere-hour rating of the battery and then translate it to the wattage of the device to be used (light or radio) and over-rating the usable output. To find the actual output, for instance, how long a 12 volt battery will power a 12 watt fluorescent light, research the conversion factor online first or you may find that your light goes out in half the time that you expect.

Great post with lot's of information. Thanks!

[chiangmaicharlies]

My oh my, people are reacting like the capital is going to be submerged under 5 metres of flood water for weeks on end. If you cannot hold out for a couple of days with the supplies you should have in your household anyway, then you're definitely a poor housekeeper. And if the Biblical flood doesn't hit your area, you're going to sit on a stockpile of food that will last until end of the year. I have never really understood that sort of lemming-like panic buying. Has anyone started chopping down the mango trees in their garden and started to build an ark, too...?

REALLY - a bit of a sad, sarcastic comment here, don't you think!

[chiangmaicharlies]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

would be wise to take car's battery into the home, to have some emergency lighting

that's a good idea - taking the battery indoors

[govekidao]

How does the electrical grid in Bangkok fare against floods ? Will the network be unaffected or can we expect localised or even city-wide outages ? I can't see my it flooding here in Don Muanag, having said that I have no idea where my power originates from and its path to my door, and that I think is my main concern.

Any ideas ?

Edited October 12, 2011 by govekidao

[travelmann]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

Telling people to drink tap water in Thailand at any time is pretty irresponsible but during a time of a national flood and in a city with an open sewerage system is just stupid.

You go do that and let me know what happens.

Bangkok water has been safe to drink for years. (not at a time of flooding though)

[londonthai]

How does the electrical grid in Bangkok fare against floods ?

when water reaches certain level electricity is switched off by hand or by fuses, to prevent electrocution from the house installations and hanging cables. There might be failures of the electrical equipment, transformers blowing up, trees falling on cables and breaking them.

as it's a network, power can be restored quickly, after cutting out broken/endangered part. That's in normal circumstances. If the technicians can't get to the area because of the high water level, nothing can be done

[softgeorge]

dried and canned foods have been missing from the shelves for days in tesco and big c ,panic buying started last weekend

drinking water is also sold out in most shops ,people are getting ready for a big one

sandbags cost:

20 thb 3 days ago

35 thb 2 days ago

50 thb 1 day ago

since yesterday and today they have been impossible to get at any price and some people are building real bricks and mortar flood walls around their homes in bangkok (ramphakaeng rd area )

Nothing unsual whenever there is some kind of emergency prices always skyrocket as some people see it as an oppertunity to capitalise. I am not just talking about Thailand either. The sad i\thing is that the prices never return to normal again either.

[softgeorge]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

would be wise to take car's battery into the home, to have some emergency lighting

Are you serious? Would you even drink water from the tap in Thailand under normal conditions? My wife is thai and she won't drink tap water it is only used for cleaning. It is all bottled water for cooking and human consumption

[Wiggy]

Absolutely correct - just one example: Heinz salad cream in Big C, Rama IV is 120 baht; in Emporium Gourmet Market it's 107 baht.

It would seem the Sukhumvit area Villas are faring better than the one you mention above... Found everything I was looking for, no problem.

But more broadly, I think you're making some incorrect over-generalizations... I do all the shopping for my family, and have for the past four years in BKK...

For some things, Villa and Paragon are always more expensive, mostly I'd say for fresh meat and fruits and vegetables (of course the vegetables at Tesco are usually pretty sad)... But for a lot of other food items, packaged and canned, they're the same price or sometimes even lower than Big C and Tesco.. And I know, because I regularly shop all of them...

I too had made that kind of assumption about places like the Paragon market when I first came here... But after years of actually pricing the same items regularly at all those different stores... it's not as simple as that.

Just for example, my wife like Davidoff brand instant coffees... At Foodland and Big C, they're regularly around 330 to 350 baht per jar... But at Paragon market, it's almost always on sale for about 240 to 250 baht... Likewise, when I buy cartons of Yolida natural yogurt, it's usually pretty much always the same price at all the different markets. And even for cartons of fruit juice like Malee or Tipco, the Paragon market regularly has them on sale at equal or better prices than the others.

And, I know, pretty much everything I brought home from Villa tonight I would not have found for any lower prices at either Tesco or Big C... Of course, I knew what things to buy and not to buy at Villa in order to pay a fair, market price.

But...I guess the main point to emphasize is... the Sukhumvit area Villas and Paragon market at least remain decently stocked as of tonight... So if you've been to your local Tesco or Big C and come away empty... there are alternatives available still.

[impulse]

Another potential problem is contracting leptospirosis from flood waters. Leptospirosis is a disease known by many names, in Asia Rat Fever and Paddy Fever. It is common (endemic) in rodents and other animals and is transmitted via urine, as long as the spirochete (a form/shape of bacteria) remains damp it can survive. It's main route into the body is via small cuts or scrapes, or through mucous membranes (eye/nose/throat/vagina). Thus wading through flood waters carries a risk. When Manila flooded in 2009 leptospirosis was a problem, especially because the form that occurred there was a high-mortality form. (Since many species of the genus leptospira can be present, some disease may be fairly mild in symptoms, and some severe. Some form can be equal or worse in severity to Dengue. Most recover, but fatalities occur. Symptoms may not appear for 5-7 days. I cringe to see photos of children playing in flood waters for this reason.

Is that something that a little amoxycillin can take care of, or are there other meds I should have at the ready just in case?

[Singoth]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

would be wise to take car's battery into the home, to have some emergency lighting

You really want to drink the tap water during a mass flood? I would think even in the downtown areas of the most modern cities in the world they would recommend boiling the water first if they got inundated as Bangkok may about to be.

Even if the water treatment plants don't get flooded, could you imagine what mess could potentially go into the pipes supplying the city water if there is 2ft of water downtown for a day or so?

I have been drinking filtered Bangkok tap water for at least 10 years now, with no ill effect! I really don't see peoples hang up about it. The EU commission rates it as one of the worlds cities with the best cleanest tap water, along with the WHO. I download the Bangkok water report usually every month to see the quality of the water coming out of the treatment stations and compare it with my own battery of test results that I perform my self, and I must say that I have yet to find a flaw in the official water report coming out of these water treatment plants. My own testing confirms that the Bangkok tap water is of a very high standard. By far, higher than most developed cities in the world. Not only that, but people speaking of sewage and all of creations rubbish getting into the system are quite ill informed. There is allways a positive pressure maintained in the system which prevents inflow of bacteria and debri from entering the system after the water has been treated. But, then again, the bottled water companies are making a killing selling people nothing but filtered water(if its filtered at all) for a nice profit and is drawn for the Bangkok water supply anyway. Unless people truly believe the lable on the bottle, that it comes from the highest mountain virgin springs that have never seen the light of day or some other nonsense, well, you get what I mean. Bottled water is a scam and it always has been, thats not to say I would go to Mumbai and drink the tap water, but the two cities are not even on the same level as far as water treatment is concerned.

Have a nice day,

Singoth

[Thai at Heart]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

would be wise to take car's battery into the home, to have some emergency lighting

You really want to drink the tap water during a mass flood? I would think even in the downtown areas of the most modern cities in the world they would recommend boiling the water first if they got inundated as Bangkok may about to be.

Even if the water treatment plants don't get flooded, could you imagine what mess could potentially go into the pipes supplying the city water if there is 2ft of water downtown for a day or so?

I have been drinking filtered Bangkok tap water for at least 10 years now, with no ill effect! I really don't see peoples hang up about it. The EU commission rates it as one of the worlds cities with the best cleanest tap water, along with the WHO. I download the Bangkok water report usually every month to see the quality of the water coming out of the treatment stations and compare it with my own battery of test results that I perform my self, and I must say that I have yet to find a flaw in the official water report coming out of these water treatment plants. My own testing confirms that the Bangkok tap water is of a very high standard. By far, higher than most developed cities in the world. Not only that, but people speaking of sewage and all of creations rubbish getting into the system are quite ill informed. There is allways a positive pressure maintained in the system which prevents inflow of bacteria and debri from entering the system after the water has been treated. But, then again, the bottled water companies are making a killing selling people nothing but filtered water(if its filtered at all) for a nice profit and is drawn for the Bangkok water supply anyway. Unless people truly believe the lable on the bottle, that it comes from the highest mountain virgin springs that have never seen the light of day or some other nonsense, well, you get what I mean. Bottled water is a scam and it always has been, thats not to say I would go to Mumbai and drink the tap water, but the two cities are not even on the same level as far as water treatment is concerned.

Have a nice day,

Singoth

Yes, I drink filtered city water, but in times of flood the potential size that is about to come to town, it is best avoided. The amount of dirty water that will be sloshing around the city will be absolutely enormous, and it will only take a little of it to get into the city water supply either by inundating the plants, or getting into leaky pipes that you really don't want to drink it untreated.

People have written previously how to chlorinate it with a couple of drops of bleach. Bangkok has 10mn people, I think you need to consider how filthy any flood water would be, if it contaminated with sewerage, let alone the simple water that will come out of the river. Bacteria are funny things, it only takes one to proliferate. And the warm and wet bangkok waste water system is a bacterial haven at the best of times, let alone in a flood.

Positive pressure can only be achieved if the pumping stations stay running, and that doesn't account for sewer water contamination at times of flood. If the pumps and chlorination systems pack up, there will be a big problem.

http://www.who.int/hac/techguidance/ems/flood_cds/en/

Edited October 13, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[chooka]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

would be wise to take car's battery into the home, to have some emergency lighting

This is Satire right? Thai's dont drink tap water because they know of the health risks. I doubt very much if any farang with the slightest hint of a brain cell would drink it either. Even your own countries give warnings about drinking tap water or consuming ice not only in Thailand but right across asia. It will be a few hundred years before a person can consume water straight from the tap here and that is without the floods.

This is the warning the Australian govt issues to it's citizens.

Water-borne, food-borne, parasitic and other infectious diseases (including tuberculosis, cholera, hepatitis, leptospirosis, typhoid, and rabies) are prevalent with outbreaks occurring from time to time. We encourage you to consider having vaccinations before travelling. We advise you to boil all drinking water or drink bottled water, avoid ice cubes and raw and undercooked food, and avoid unpasteurised dairy products. Seek medical advice if you have a fever or are suffering from diarrhoea.

[sirchai]

Not good news but thank you for the perspective and reports. Much appreciated.

Hmmm, but will Pizza Hut still deliver?

They will deliver in speed boats from now on....

[eljeque]

My oh my, people are reacting like the capital is going to be submerged under 5 metres of flood water for weeks on end. If you cannot hold out for a couple of days with the supplies you should have in your household anyway, then you're definitely a poor housekeeper. And if the Biblical flood doesn't hit your area, you're going to sit on a stockpile of food that will last until end of the year. I have never really understood that sort of lemming-like panic buying. Has anyone started chopping down the mango trees in their garden and started to build an ark, too...?

REALLY - a bit of a sad, sarcastic comment here, don't you think!

Have you seen Ayudthaya lately?

[SAffer]

I cant believe that food suppliers would raise their prices in times of difficulty. Their like vultures preying on the weak and downtrodden. Great human spirit.

That's profiteering... but seeing as consumers have little to zero rights in Thailand; why am I not surprised?

[sirchai]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

would be wise to take car's battery into the home, to have some emergency lighting

When flooding occurs, virtually anywhere, even in countries with high quality water/sewer systems, what happens is seepage from sewage contaminates ground water, if the pressure of the ground water exceeds the internal pressure of the drinking water supply pipes, the seepage occurs from the outside (ground water) into the drinking water mains, contaminating the drinking water. Virtually all water supply and sewage systems leak due to movement of the pipes. It is normal to have drinking water supply lines next to sewage lines and normally nobody worries since the higher pressure in the water supply lines causes an outflow and prevents inflow from nearby sewage contaminated water. But in flooding pumps may fail, and the water pressure may drop even temporarily allowing contamination. Therefore during floods all drinking water from the potable water supply system, if it is still working, should be boiled (rolling boil) for two to five minutes. Ordinary 5% hypochlorite chlorine bleach (without perfume/color) can also be used. Add two drops per liter or quart, stir, let it sit for 30 minutes and smell it. There should be a mild chlorine smell, if not, add one more drop, stir and let it sit for 30 minutes.

Another potential problem is contracting leptospirosis from flood waters. Leptospirosis is a disease known by many names, in Asia Rat Fever and Paddy Fever. It is common (endemic) in rodents and other animals and is transmitted via urine, as long as the spirochete (a form/shape of bacteria) remains damp it can survive. It's main route into the body is via small cuts or scrapes, or through mucous membranes (eye/nose/throat/vagina). Thus wading through flood waters carries a risk. When Manila flooded in 2009 leptospirosis was a problem, especially because the form that occurred there was a high-mortality form. (Since many species of the genus leptospira can be present, some disease may be fairly mild in symptoms, and some severe. Some form can be equal or worse in severity to Dengue. Most recover, but fatalities occur. Symptoms may not appear for 5-7 days. I cringe to see photos of children playing in flood waters for this reason.

The car battery is a good idea, indeed there are even solar charging systems and 12-24v batteries sold to be used as back-up power. Many have gelled sulfuric acid, and thus cannot leak which can be a problem with car batteries. Also remember when charging indoors that the charging process creates hydrogen gas which, though not poisonous in the quantity generated can create high levels of hydrogen in the headspace of the battery, such that a nearby spark or ignition source can cause a serious explosion compounded by the sulfuric acid in the battery. Inverters that can change 12 or 24volt to 220v probably exist in Thailand. One mistake many make is to look at the ampere-hour rating of the battery and then translate it to the wattage of the device to be used (light or radio) and over-rating the usable output. To find the actual output, for instance, how long a 12 volt battery will power a 12 watt fluorescent light, research the conversion factor online first or you may find that your light goes out in half the time that you expect.

Electrical voltage V, amperage I, resistivity R, impedance Z, wattage or power P

The nominal impedance Z = 4, 8, and 16 ohms (loudspeakers) is often assumed as resistance R.

Ohm's law equation (formula): V = I × R and the power law equation (formula): P = I × V.

P = power, I or J = Latin: influare, international ampere, or intensity and R = resistance.

V = voltage, electric potential difference or E = electro motive force (EMF = voltage). Enjoy it.....

[Meteor]

Tesco Furtune BKK last few days..... Edited October 13, 2011 by Meteor

[jayceenik]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

Telling people to drink tap water in Thailand at any time is pretty irresponsible but during a time of a national flood and in a city with an open sewerage system is just stupid.

You go do that and let me know what happens.

Bangkok water has been safe to drink for years. (not at a time of flooding though)

Tap water is safe but due to low pipe pressure in the grid it has to be pumped up in roof reservoirs to give distribution in higher buildings.

Like in my 5-story high apt building.

Contamination can occur in those tanks. That's why I have installed a water purifying unit so I can still drink "tap" water.

[wana]

not sure, why to buy water, as tap water is good enough and rain water can be drunk as well.

Telling people to drink tap water in Thailand at any time is pretty irresponsible but during a time of a national flood and in a city with an open sewerage system is just stupid.

You go do that and let me know what happens.

Bangkok water has been safe to drink for years. (not at a time of flooding though)

Tap water is safe but due to low pipe pressure in the grid it has to be pumped up in roof reservoirs to give distribution in higher buildings.

Like in my 5-story high apt building.

Contamination can occur in those tanks. That's why I have installed a water purifying unit so I can still drink "tap" water.

a filter such as the ones in the wall mounted systems on sale in cannot filter all the nasty bacteria ,germs and parasites that could be in sewage contaminatred water

if bottled water is a "scam" why does it taste neutral while tap water tastes manky at the best of times ? i will continue to be scammed and drink what i hope is 'pure" water

also why is tap water never used in underfunded government buildings if its so clean ? police stations get crates of bottled water delivered every day ,as do hospitals and most other goverment buildings ive been in

surely all these places wouldnt waste money ordering water if the tap water was "just the same stuff " in a differnt bottle

Edited October 13, 2011 by wana

[finnomick1]

Also maybe buy a water pump and generator if you are going to be hit. Buid brick walls good i guess but its still imposible to stop all the water coming in unless the walls were part of the original construction.

?????????? You are obviously not a construction engineer

Brick walls are a great solution, but what happens when you open the gate or door to go in or out..........................................

[bkkjames]

Regarding tap water in Bangkok here is my two satangs:

1. If you have every used a white towel to dry off after showering and bathing, notice how it turns a nice copper brown in a day that can only be removed with bleach.

2. The water may be filtered at the source but the pipes leading to the home / condo etc are older than dirt and made of what?

I use it to boil pasta, that's as close as I come to consuming it.

[h90]

Regarding tap water in Bangkok here is my two satangs:

1. If you have every used a white towel to dry off after showering and bathing, notice how it turns a nice copper brown in a day that can only be removed with bleach.

2. The water may be filtered at the source but the pipes leading to the home / condo etc are older than dirt and made of what?

I use it to boil pasta, that's as close as I come to consuming it.

We use white towels and they don't turn brown.

Maybe you have a good time on the beach and the brown is your skin?

[bkkjames]

Regarding tap water in Bangkok here is my two satangs:

1. If you have every used a white towel to dry off after showering and bathing, notice how it turns a nice copper brown in a day that can only be removed with bleach.

2. The water may be filtered at the source but the pipes leading to the home / condo etc are older than dirt and made of what?

I use it to boil pasta, that's as close as I come to consuming it.

We use white towels and they don't turn brown.

Maybe you have a good time on the beach and the brown is your skin?

there is white and off-white: i prefer the former. Compare it to something white that hasn't been in the local water. Kinda like teeth, your teeth dont look so bad until you compare them to a sheet of white paper

[Neurath]

"also why is tap water never used in underfunded government buildings if its so clean ? police stations get crates of bottled water delivered every day ,as do hospitals and most other goverment buildings ive been in

surely all these places wouldnt waste money ordering water if the tap water was "just the same stuff " in a differnt bottle"

Why use more expensive non-functioning "explosive detectors" when cheaper and very much effective ones are available? Beats me man. Beats me.

[h90]

Regarding tap water in Bangkok here is my two satangs:

1. If you have every used a white towel to dry off after showering and bathing, notice how it turns a nice copper brown in a day that can only be removed with bleach.

2. The water may be filtered at the source but the pipes leading to the home / condo etc are older than dirt and made of what?

I use it to boil pasta, that's as close as I come to consuming it.

We use white towels and they don't turn brown.

Maybe you have a good time on the beach and the brown is your skin?

there is white and off-white: i prefer the former. Compare it to something white that hasn't been in the local water. Kinda like teeth, your teeth dont look so bad until you compare them to a sheet of white paper

In compare to my teeth the towel I used already 2 month looks snow-white. I don't know if that is the reason my dentist wears that as soon as I start speaking

[FalangBaa]

I've been drinking Thai tap water, unfiltered, without boiling, every day for 6 years since I've been in Thailand and I've never been to the doctor once. Only had diarrhea a few times in 6 years, as a result of eating spicy food or street food. Lived in Phuket, Koh Samui, Chiang Mai and Bangkok. All have very good tap water. Phuket is supposed to have the most state-of-the-art tap water purification system in Thailand. But in my opinion, Bangkok tap water has the best taste by far, much better tasting than bottled water for me. I generally drink 2-3 litres a day, or more if I'm exercising outside and sweating a lot. Thai tap water is very clean. Standards exceed Western standards. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. They are just trying to sell you expensive bottled waters which are actually less good for your health because plastic from bottles DOES leach into the water and causes cancer, infertility and hormonal imbalances. I wouldn't drink rain water either as some people here have advocated. Rain water is acidic and contaminated with hydrocarbons from smoke in any urban area, and often in rural areas too if they are burning crop fields, etc. Tap water is the only water that's fit to drink. If you are worried about the possibility of bacteria or amoebas in tap water, buy a cheap filter for your tap that will cost you about 1,000 baht a year. But I've tried filtered water in a friend's house and I find that the water (especially in Bangkok) actually tastes a lot fresher and nicer unfiltered. After 6 years, no health problems, so I must be doing something right.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On the issue of BKK tap water.... I think a couple things ought to be clear.

1. If there's substantial flooding, that could well cause contamination in the municipal water system, and it certainly would be best to avoid drinking unfiltered or otherwise cleaned tap water during that period of time.

2. In normal times and absent major flooding, the tap water produced by the treatment plants in MOST of BKK is of good drinking quality... The last tests I've read on that showed a couple of locations where it was somewhat lacking... But most of the city was good.

3. However, those tests don't account, as someone mentioned above, for the local conditions in the tanks or lines in your building.... Even though the arriving water may be good, if your building has bad tanks or old rusty components, everything could go downhill.

In the building where I live, originally, the tap water used to come out rusty when turning on the tap... Then a few years ago, the owner replaced the entire tap water piping system in the building with new PVC and other components, and now it comes out crystal clear.

After the new piping system was put in, I switched from bottled water to drinking our own tap water.... but only after running it through a filtration system and boiling it... just to make sure.... Never had any problem in the past two years of doing so....

But... to reemphasize...if we have major flooding on the ground, I'll be passing on tap water until after it's been resolved and cleared.

Bottled water may be OK... But if you think about the way a lot of Thai businesses approach safety and environmental issues, you've really got to wonder... I'd prefer to at least control the process myself, rather than trust others where I have no idea what they're doing.