Thaksin Suggests Bartering Farm Produce For Water Management Expertise

[ratcatcher]

"Thaksin expressed confidence that Yingluck will be able steer the country through this time of crisis"

I very much doubt that. If you saw yesterdays Bangkok Post, there was a Photo of her with Abisit and advisers. It's obvious that she has absolutely no Idea. All she can do is listen and hope her advisers get it right.

Not much chance of that.

She has as much as admitted that her government "is at its wits end" in this situation which for a Thai is pretty bold speaking.

Normally they would announce that it's all OK regardless.

I don't so much blame her,I think she is sincerely trying to help, but after all she was plucked from a closet career in the family realty business & shoved on the world stage by Brother No.1 and bearing in mind the tools (fools) in her cabinet that she has to work with, it's really not surprising. I think this flooding has probably put a big dent in Thaksin's plans to make a heroic return in the next 2 months.

It is important for him to keep up his front page grand standing. Perhaps he can get the Arabs to trade chickens,pineapples and fish for oil?

On the other hand nobody has calculated the financial losses to the country so far, accurately that is.

[SAffer]

Seriously, I know the Democrats are elitist... but goodness me; at least Aphasit is a well spoken presentable guy... the Siniwatra family are not good for Thailand. Yingluck makes Sarah Palin seem genius, and Thaksin is so clearly in control of Thailand right now. It is a sad indicator of Thai people's mentality that they vote for these people, sad indeed.

[scorecard]

odd - so the farmers will give free rice in this barter project?

Surely even if the govt does barter, they still have to pay $$$ for the rice etc.

What's the point again?

Good question.

And what's in it for the farmers or thet expected to give their produce free?

About as good as the thaksin road show where he visited some houses in Roi-et to give each family a busines idea, only problem was that he advised most to start a fish farm which is illegal because of the damage to the environment.

[animatic]

Again, Thaksin urged the government to expedite a project, which could store water during the rainy season and release the water for irrigation in times of drought

. \

It's called a dam.

And he's not the first Thai person to think of this idea.

Soooooo dry i i i i a sense of humor!

[animatic]

odd - so the farmers will give free rice in this barter project?

Surely even if the govt does barter, they still have to pay $ for the rice etc.

What's the point again?

Good question.

And what's in it for the farmers or thet expected to give their produce free?

About as good as the thaksin road show where he visited some houses in Roi-et to give each family a busines idea, only problem was that he advised most to start a fish farm which is illegal because of the damage to the environment.

No, the government will pay exorbitantly for the rice,

and the resell/barter it off shore, win or lose.

But all their cronies will get a cut as it changes hands.

This little pig went to market, and this little piggy got none.

Edited October 13, 2011 by animatic

[TechnikaIII]

Ask the Kachin region Burmese what they think of Chinese Water Management expertise.

Exactly ... "the Kachin region Burmese" or whoever, wherever, the mention of "Chinese Water Management", .. Hell, it's akin to water boarding, on a community scale.

[animatic]

A large part of the blame can, I think, be placed at the feet of the authorities EGAT?) in charge of releasing water from the storage dams in the northern areas notably Bhumphol & Sirikit plus Pasak dam. Not doing sufficient advance planning?

The severe monsoon pattern plus La Nina have exascerbated the problem.

However accepting responsibility is difficult in Teflon Thailand where nothing sticks if you are in authority.

Plus The Lost Face department is now closed.

In typical local style they did what their last orderes were, and didn't dare contradict those up the revenue stream. So it didn't get done till someone up stream finally notices his good friends business was about to lose a LOT of money and said 'Release more water...' ' why didn't you do it earlier!!!!!"

[TechnikaIII]

Does buffalo manure count as farm produce?

If it could, it would be good. There's enough of it around.

[rubl]

About a year from now, maybe Thailand should sent some observers to this conference:

The 2nd European Conference on FLOODrisk Management 2012

20th - 22nd November 2012, Rotterdam, The Netherlands

http://www.floodrisk2012.net/

Edited October 13, 2011 by rubl

[GazR]

I guess this whole plan hinges on whether a government or private company actually wants rice / mangoes or shrimp instead of money. I know what I'd prefer.

"Farang can not know 'thainess' (sic)" - Obviously they are hoping to barter Thai flood water for Arabian desert sand to fill all those millions of sandbags.

[Artisi]

I guess this whole plan hinges on whether a government or private company actually wants rice / mangoes or shrimp instead of money. I know what I'd prefer.

"Farang can not know 'thainess' (sic)" - Obviously they are hoping to barter Thai flood water for Arabian desert sand to fill all those millions of sandbags.

That's after the rice sacks are returned from the middle east so they can become sandbags, hopefully on the same transport bringing the sand - but that would be too much to hope for and would require someone to actually think /plan ahead - not a Thai traint.

[bangkokrick]

I guess this whole plan hinges on whether a government or private company actually wants rice / mangoes or shrimp instead of money. I know what I'd prefer.

Yea me too free admission into National Parks.

[Gerald14]

Thaksin would be well advised to worry about his jail-term when he comes back and not to interfere with things he does not fully understand

[garrfeild]

"Thaksin expressed confidence that Yingluck will be able steer the country through this time of crisis"

I very much doubt that. If you saw yesterdays Bangkok Post, there was a Photo of her with Abisit and advisers. It's obvious that she has absolutely no Idea. All she can do is listen and hope her advisers get it right.

Not much chance of that.

She has as much as admitted that her government "is at its wits end" in this situation which for a Thai is pretty bold speaking.

Normally they would announce that it's all OK regardless.

I don't so much blame her,I think she is sincerely trying to help, but after all she was plucked from a closet career in the family realty business & shoved on the world stage by Brother No.1 and bearing in mind the tools (fools) in her cabinet that she has to work with, it's really not surprising. I think this flooding has probably put a big dent in Thaksin's plans to make a heroic return in the next 2 months.

It is important for him to keep up his front page grand standing. Perhaps he can get the Arabs to trade chickens,pineapples and fish for oil?

On the other hand nobody has calculated the financial losses to the country so far, accurately that is.

Your not wrong, But it is odd that there doesn't seem to be anyone within her government that is standing next to her in support, I expect an internal power struggle with deputy prime minister making a bit for top job. For all Thaksin's grand standing as you call it, he is powerless to control things, even old friends become enemies.

I know it's easy for me to be cynical, But until The issue of Thaksin is resolved one way or another, can we really expect Thai politics to get any better. It is good that the main parties seem to be working together on the flooding problems, But will it last and translate into a better future?

[GentlemanJim]

Whatever the physical costs are of the flood damages, and that will be tens of billions if not more, it is the perfect excuse now for the Government to say that tablet computers, minimum wage hikes, graduate wages and free wifi zones are now off the menu because of the costs of unprecedented natural disasters What a lucky Government!!

I wonder if Yingluck was actually praying to the River Goddess to stop or to bring it on

[WarpSpeed]

"Thaksin expressed confidence that Yingluck will be able steer the country through this time of crisis"

I very much doubt that. If you saw yesterdays Bangkok Post, there was a Photo of her with Abisit and advisers. It's obvious that she has absolutely no Idea. All she can do is listen and hope her advisers get it right.

Not much chance of that.

It is important for him to keep up his front page grand standing. Perhaps he can get the Arabs to trade chickens,pineapples and fish for oil?

Well sand bags are pretty useful these days and they do have a lot of sand!

I do agree that Yingluck does seem to have that "deer in the headlights look" with regards to this disaster and really looks the stereotypically subservient Asian female to some extent in the pictures I've seen mostly being obedient and led around as a primarily a figurehead.

She really got it handed to her in the throws of her election honeymoon and I think it is quite a big statement for her to include Abhisit and company and it may have some positive effect on the political climate and some reunification of Thailand at least in the short term and who knows what can come out of that for the long term.. But politics should be put aside as the Thai family is in greater need at the moment and this case blood should be thicker than politics..

[rubl]

Whatever the physical costs are of the flood damages, and that will be tens of billions if not more, it is the perfect excuse now for the Government to say that tablet computers, minimum wage hikes, graduate wages and free wifi zones are now off the menu because of the costs of unprecedented natural disasters What a lucky Government!!

I wonder if Yingluck was actually praying to the River Goddess to stop or to bring it on

You may be right, but what about the THB 350 - 410 billion to be spent on the rice price pledging scheme between Oct 7th 2011 and Feb 28th 2012 ?

[GentlemanJim]

Whatever the physical costs are of the flood damages, and that will be tens of billions if not more, it is the perfect excuse now for the Government to say that tablet computers, minimum wage hikes, graduate wages and free wifi zones are now off the menu because of the costs of unprecedented natural disasters What a lucky Government!!

I wonder if Yingluck was actually praying to the River Goddess to stop or to bring it on

You may be right, but what about the THB 350 - 410 billion to be spent on the rice price pledging scheme between Oct 7th 2011 and Feb 28th 2012 ?

Good point. Well with failed crops now in Vietnam and Cambodia, there is an absolute killing to be made for the middle man in Thailand! Maybe a good time to go long on Rice as a commodity.

[SantiSuk]

Given that Thailand is so flat .......

Which balcony in Bangkok did you survey the topography of Thailand from to come up with that conclusion?

[soylentgreen]

Please excuse me for wading into this debate about flood management and Thaksin uninvited, but a few points of fact(and some pithy quotes)may help to illuminate this increasingly bitter little thread and the news item in the BP which initiated it.

1. Thaksin was talking during a BP interview, and BP chose to highlight the front-page caption "Over dinner and wine at a fancy Dubai restaurant, the ex-premier outlined a plan that he says will end flooding forever - for 400 billion baht." Sound like backstabbing to me. The interviewer/s agreed to interview Thaksin "over dinner and wine at a fancy Dubai restaurant!"

“Of all the pestilence's dire, Including famine, flood, and fire; By Satan and his imps rehearsed, The neighbors' children are the worst” - Stoddard King

2. Instead of posting Thaksin hate rants, why not support long term flood management? Successive governments of all colors have failed in the past, and believe it or not TS is the first to make such a long-term proposal. Perhaps he might not succeed, but he does have credibility with massive projects - i.e. Suvarnabhumi airport wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him, Thailand absolutely needs all the help we can get at this point and we need to prepare for the future by developing better means of dealing with these devastating floods.

“There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures.” - William Shakespeare

3. You may or may not like Thaksin's politics, but his long-term, business planning approach is needed to confront this perennial problem. Anyway, water, farming and flooding should not be made into a political football match as all Thais will benefit (and be hurt by inaction)

"Looking at it from a positive perspective, the current flood crisis provides a good opportunity for the government to think about an integrated water management system and I believe all parties would agree with it," he said

Absolutely!

“We must build dikes of courage to hold back the flood of fear.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

4, Fact: South East Asian countries i.e. Thailand, Burma, Vietnam and Cambodia which are traversed by major waterways have always been prone to flooding. That’s why the houses are either built on higher ground or on stilts. Now, with deforestation and extreme infrastructure development, water management has become a lot more complicated and there is more at stake. Good water management planning will be a challenge but it can be handled if the right people talk together and think ahead.

The central flood plains of Thailand cover 108,000Km2, the monsoon catching hills add another 350,000Km2 plus of rain collecting surfaces. Average rainfall is 133cm/year. Most of the rain funnels down to a 100Km wide opening at the top of the Gulf of Thailand. Then we have the Korat plateau and the South with their own set of problems.

So, Thaksin's words are true, Thailand needs a good water management system, and a lot more has to be included:

- Dykes that do not fail easily should be build around the rivers, actually 2 dykes, one for dry season, one for wet season. During the dry season, the area between the 2 can be used for agriculture.

- Waterways have to be dredged on a regular basis to ensure free water flow

- People have to stop dumping their trash in the street, flowing into the drainage system and causing blockades there

5. Bangkok has always spent a lot of Thailand’s wealth on water development and management since the early 1980’s to generate prevention and resolution schemes to the flood problem around Bangkok. Modern, water pumping stations, drainage tunnels and flood prevention centers have all been built around and in Bangkok to protect it. It’s high time that more of Thailand’s wealth be spent on developing integrated water management solutions for other areas like the central plains, not just to protect the property of the Thai-Chinese elites in Bangkok. The same goes for education, infrastructure and health care!

“Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you." -Charlie Brown to Snoopy

Finally, some might ask themselves why almost none of the AV government's mega-stimulus package was allocated to this obvious and recurring problem. Abhisit borrowed heavily to finance his various populist policies and stimulus packages. The government borrowed a record-breaking 1.49 trillion baht from 2009 to early 2011, compared to the previous 26 Prime Ministers who had combined borrowings of only 870 billion baht. Thailand’s national debt at the end of February 2011 was 3.59 trillion baht, or 40% of GDP.

The previous 26 Prime Ministers include Thaksin.

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

So, my advice to all of the Bangkok Post headline programmed Thaksin bashers on Thai Visa Forum would be to get your facts straight before mouthing off about water management schemes and stop making up all those lies about lack of donations from Thaksin or his family to the people of Thailand.

Thaksin and the Thaicom foundation have donated large sums of money to flood victims in the past and presumably will continue to do so in the future. Here’s a report from the Nation precisely a year ago, which despite the Nation’s childish headline, provides evidence:

“He said he instructed Thaicom foundation, founded by him, to donate Bt5 million via the Thai Red Cross. He added that he and his family members provided additional funds to buy essential supplies for distribution to the victims.”

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/10/21/politics/Thaksin-tries-to-upstage-PM-on-flood-relief-30140555.html

“Slander cannot destroy an honest man - when the flood recedes the rock is there” - Chinese Proverbs quotes

And for those posters keeping dry in front of their computers, get out and see for yourself how the people are suffering instead of just being an armchair critic.

“What is the appropriate behavior for a man or a woman in the midst of this world, where each person is clinging to his piece of debris? What's the proper salutation between people as they pass each other in this flood?” - Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism.

There is an African proverb from Malagasy which answers the question: "Let your love be like the misty rain, coming softly, but flooding the river." :jap:

[scotbeve]

Dear soylent green,

(BTW- that movie gave me nightmares for a while!!!)

A very good post of yours!

A rare, well-rounded post that may (I said may) keep the usual flame throwers at bay. We will see soon a list of donors and we will not be surprised at it's findings. I do suspect that those same usual flamer throwers will be asking for links for your #5 above as it is too unbelievable for them (tho' documented in ALL news groups)

[whybother]

<snip>

2. Instead of posting Thaksin hate rants, why not support long term flood management? Successive governments of all colors have failed in the past, and believe it or not TS is the first to make such a long-term proposal. Perhaps he might not succeed, but he does have credibility with massive projects - i.e. Suvarnabhumi airport wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him, Thailand absolutely needs all the help we can get at this point and we need to prepare for the future by developing better means of dealing with these devastating floods.

<snip>

The airport was full of problems with corruption and poor work. No credibility there.

Long term flooding proposals have been around since at least 1983 (http://web.rid.go.th/ffd/papers/Paper-Session%201/p1-04%20Flood%20Mitigation%20Master%20Plan.pdf).

What "massive projects" does Thaksin have credibility with?

[philw]

Dear soylent green,

(BTW- that movie gave me nightmares for a while!!!)

A very good post of yours!

A rare, well-rounded post that may (I said may) keep the usual flame throwers at bay. We will see soon a list of donors and we will not be surprised at it's findings. I do suspect that those same usual flamer throwers will be asking for links for your #5 above as it is too unbelievable for them (tho' documented in ALL news groups)

Fully agree and it will be interesting to see the depths soon to be plumbed by the Thaksin haters....

[yellow1red1]

I'm just curious and I'll freely admit I know very little, but will these dams being built by the Chinese reduce flooding in Thailand or have no effect? I'm startled by the news about Bangkok being saved, I read somewhere that it accounts for 75% or thereabouts of Thailand's economy. Is this really true? All other 75 provinces combined produce a quarter of Thailand's GDP? surely not. If so, why not sacrifice one low-lying province, relocate everyone (if possible) and make a dam? I suppose the whole country is low-lying!

China has less to do with it than people keep going on... the amount going into Laos from China grows about 5 times. the feeders are in Laos

[thaimat]

What a field day Monty Python would have had with suggestions such as this, were they based here! Let's talk to countries that get no rain, so they build massive desalination plants- they certainly have very relevant advice for Thailand. Surely a country whose solution to flooding problems is to destroy/displace hundreds of thousands of lives with heavily polluting/ecologically disastrous dams will inscrutably offer their expertise in exchange for tons of Thai agricultural products in spite of they fact that they are the agricultural powerhouse of the region. Certainly do not use the American model, from The Great Depression times, when huge reservoirs were built in EVERY part of the country that suffered drought problems. Not enough profit in that, and not convoluted enough of a solution. Better to build tens of thousands of kilometers of pipes that break, clog, need steady maintenance but will never get any. Long term profits galore! Monty would put this all in a skit called The Ministry of Funny Plans.

The Chinese which have serious floods every year they can't properly manage? Those Chinese?? and the middle east that's all desert and hardly gets any rain to speak of? That middle east? Yah those are first rate sources to get advice from ..

[WarpSpeed]

<snip>

2. Instead of posting Thaksin hate rants, why not support long term flood management? Successive governments of all colors have failed in the past, and believe it or not TS is the first to make such a long-term proposal. Perhaps he might not succeed, but he does have credibility with massive projects - i.e. Suvarnabhumi airport wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him, Thailand absolutely needs all the help we can get at this point and we need to prepare for the future by developing better means of dealing with these devastating floods.

<snip>

The airport was full of problems with corruption and poor work. No credibility there.

Long term flooding proposals have been around since at least 1983 (http://web.rid.go.th/ffd/papers/Paper-Session%201/p1-04%20Flood%20Mitigation%20Master%20Plan.pdf).

What "massive projects" does Thaksin have credibility with?

Hmmmmm wasn't he instrumental in the reds downtown take over and riots aftermath?

Edited October 14, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[volk666]

So all Thai water management experts are stupid and we should import them from China now. Why? Have we run out of capable Shinawatras?

Budget deficit is expected to widen next year and another 400 bil invested in water management would double the debt. There's also the 400 bil pledge to buy rice, though that would be conveniently paid be state owned banks, not by the government. The government itself put infrastructure investment on the back burner in lieu of the more urgent cash handouts in form of wage increase and other stimulus policies.

The good news they just cut the corporate taxes...

Crying Yingluck

Edited October 14, 2011 by volk666

[volk666]

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

The guys who spent considerable time massaging these publicly available stats and left us only with implications that something might be fishy. They don't even air these suspicions in public because then they would have to follow through on these allegations. It's not like Democrats don't have enemies to investigate real wrongdoings. Perhaps national level politicians saw these and thought there's no meat there, so now this FUD is spread in forums like this instead, like a gossip.

This is obviously just a bait that has nothing to with the topic but I thought the allegations were interesting anyway.

[GazR]

Please excuse me for wading into this debate about flood management and Thaksin uninvited, but a few points of fact(and some pithy quotes)may help to illuminate this increasingly bitter little thread and the news item in the BP which initiated it.

1. Thaksin was talking during a BP interview, and BP chose to highlight the front-page caption "Over dinner and wine at a fancy Dubai restaurant, the ex-premier outlined a plan that he says will end flooding forever - for 400 billion baht." Sound like backstabbing to me. The interviewer/s agreed to interview Thaksin "over dinner and wine at a fancy Dubai restaurant!"

"Of all the pestilence's dire, Including famine, flood, and fire; By Satan and his imps rehearsed, The neighbors' children are the worst" - Stoddard King

2. Instead of posting Thaksin hate rants, why not support long term flood management? Successive governments of all colors have failed in the past, and believe it or not TS is the first to make such a long-term proposal. Perhaps he might not succeed, but he does have credibility with massive projects - i.e. Suvarnabhumi airport wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him, Thailand absolutely needs all the help we can get at this point and we need to prepare for the future by developing better means of dealing with these devastating floods.

"There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures." - William Shakespeare

3. You may or may not like Thaksin's politics, but his long-term, business planning approach is needed to confront this perennial problem. Anyway, water, farming and flooding should not be made into a political football match as all Thais will benefit (and be hurt by inaction)

"Looking at it from a positive perspective, the current flood crisis provides a good opportunity for the government to think about an integrated water management system and I believe all parties would agree with it," he said

Absolutely!

"We must build dikes of courage to hold back the flood of fear." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

4, Fact: South East Asian countries i.e. Thailand, Burma, Vietnam and Cambodia which are traversed by major waterways have always been prone to flooding. That's why the houses are either built on higher ground or on stilts. Now, with deforestation and extreme infrastructure development, water management has become a lot more complicated and there is more at stake. Good water management planning will be a challenge but it can be handled if the right people talk together and think ahead.

The central flood plains of Thailand cover 108,000Km2, the monsoon catching hills add another 350,000Km2 plus of rain collecting surfaces. Average rainfall is 133cm/year. Most of the rain funnels down to a 100Km wide opening at the top of the Gulf of Thailand. Then we have the Korat plateau and the South with their own set of problems.

So, Thaksin's words are true, Thailand needs a good water management system, and a lot more has to be included:

- Dykes that do not fail easily should be build around the rivers, actually 2 dykes, one for dry season, one for wet season. During the dry season, the area between the 2 can be used for agriculture.

- Waterways have to be dredged on a regular basis to ensure free water flow

- People have to stop dumping their trash in the street, flowing into the drainage system and causing blockades there

5. Bangkok has always spent a lot of Thailand's wealth on water development and management since the early 1980's to generate prevention and resolution schemes to the flood problem around Bangkok. Modern, water pumping stations, drainage tunnels and flood prevention centers have all been built around and in Bangkok to protect it. It's high time that more of Thailand's wealth be spent on developing integrated water management solutions for other areas like the central plains, not just to protect the property of the Thai-Chinese elites in Bangkok. The same goes for education, infrastructure and health care!

"Are you upset little friend? Have you been lying awake worrying? Well, don't worry...I'm here. The flood waters will recede, the famine will end, the sun will shine tomorrow, and I will always be here to take care of you." -Charlie Brown to Snoopy

Finally, some might ask themselves why almost none of the AV government's mega-stimulus package was allocated to this obvious and recurring problem. Abhisit borrowed heavily to finance his various populist policies and stimulus packages. The government borrowed a record-breaking 1.49 trillion baht from 2009 to early 2011, compared to the previous 26 Prime Ministers who had combined borrowings of only 870 billion baht. Thailand's national debt at the end of February 2011 was 3.59 trillion baht, or 40% of GDP.

The previous 26 Prime Ministers include Thaksin.

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

So, my advice to all of the Bangkok Post headline programmed Thaksin bashers on Thai Visa Forum would be to get your facts straight before mouthing off about water management schemes and stop making up all those lies about lack of donations from Thaksin or his family to the people of Thailand.

Thaksin and the Thaicom foundation have donated large sums of money to flood victims in the past and presumably will continue to do so in the future. Here's a report from the Nation precisely a year ago, which despite the Nation's childish headline, provides evidence:

"He said he instructed Thaicom foundation, founded by him, to donate Bt5 million via the Thai Red Cross. He added that he and his family members provided additional funds to buy essential supplies for distribution to the victims."

http://www.nationmul...f-30140555.html

"Slander cannot destroy an honest man - when the flood recedes the rock is there" - Chinese Proverbs quotes

And for those posters keeping dry in front of their computers, get out and see for yourself how the people are suffering instead of just being an armchair critic.

"What is the appropriate behavior for a man or a woman in the midst of this world, where each person is clinging to his piece of debris? What's the proper salutation between people as they pass each other in this flood?" - Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism.

There is an African proverb from Malagasy which answers the question: "Let your love be like the misty rain, coming softly, but flooding the river." :jap:

Well, you sure sound like a newbie - perhaps Thaksin's newbie spokesman. Good speech though - I guess he can afford top dollar per word..

Seriously though, where to start?

Lets cut to the chase then: If Thaksin was the sort of leader/personality you claim, then he would have changed the education system, so either he didn't understand why or care why that needs to be done - that is, if any of the worthy improvements you mention are to be realized.

The record shows that a dodgy degree or two and first-mover bragging rights to populist policies do little to clothe a naked emperor.

BTW most educated persons living here are angry at Thailand for blowing a mandate for real change (his dodgy rise to power notwithstanding) in pursuit of an anti-democratic, anti-intellectual agenda aimed at creating a one-party state in the Singapore model. Perhaps that might even be best, but destroying democratic checks and balances while claiming to be a champion of democracy is a deceitful way of going about it and makes a mockery of Thaksin's democratic credentials.

Edited October 14, 2011 by GazR

[animatic]

<snip>

2. Instead of posting Thaksin hate rants, why not support long term flood management? Successive governments of all colors have failed in the past, and believe it or not TS is the first to make such a long-term proposal. Perhaps he might not succeed, but he does have credibility with massive projects - i.e. Suvarnabhumi airport wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him, Thailand absolutely needs all the help we can get at this point and we need to prepare for the future by developing better means of dealing with these devastating floods.

<snip>

The airport was full of problems with corruption and poor work. No credibility there.

Long term flooding proposals have been around since at least 1983 (http://web.rid.go.th...ster%20Plan.pdf).

What "massive projects" does Thaksin have credibility with?

Not to mention the airport project was in the works when Thaksin was still a real Police Lieutenant.

He just was there when he pushed the last few cronies at it to finished it.

He lucked out from timing not planning.

And flood planning has been around for 50 years, but it steps on many influential toes to get it done, and they always manage to quash it for their own profiteering reasons.

Maybe such a HUGE disaster as this might get some flood control things done... but TIT, rather doubtful. The pace of things to MAKE FLOODS WORSE has accelerated while repairs have been slowed... NICE!

Edited October 14, 2011 by animatic