Thaksin Suggests Bartering Farm Produce For Water Management Expertise

[scotbeve]

<snip>

2. Instead of posting Thaksin hate rants, why not support long term flood management? Successive governments of all colors have failed in the past, and believe it or not TS is the first to make such a long-term proposal. Perhaps he might not succeed, but he does have credibility with massive projects - i.e. Suvarnabhumi airport wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him, Thailand absolutely needs all the help we can get at this point and we need to prepare for the future by developing better means of dealing with these devastating floods.

<snip>

The airport was full of problems with corruption and poor work. No credibility there.

Long term flooding proposals have been around since at least 1983 (http://web.rid.go.th...ster%20Plan.pdf).

What "massive projects" does Thaksin have credibility with?

Not to mention the airport project was in the works when Thaksin was still a real Police Lieutenant.

He just was there when he pushed the last few cronies at it to finished it.

He lucked out from timing not planning.

And flood planning has been around for 50 years, but it steps on many influential toes to get it done, and they always manage to quash it for their own profiteering reasons.

Maybe such a HUGE disaster as this might get some flood control things done... but TIT, rather doubtful. The pace of things to MAKE FLOODS WORSE has accelerated while repairs have been slowed... NICE!

Is it too "Un-PC" to say "VERY INFLUENTIAL TOES" (Why the heck are the sluice gates at Bhumipol dam still releasing water?????? Nakorn Sawan has had enough flooding thx!!!!)

[Crushdepth]

<snip>

2. Instead of posting Thaksin hate rants, why not support long term flood management? Successive governments of all colors have failed in the past, and believe it or not TS is the first to make such a long-term proposal. Perhaps he might not succeed, but he does have credibility with massive projects - i.e. Suvarnabhumi airport wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him, Thailand absolutely needs all the help we can get at this point and we need to prepare for the future by developing better means of dealing with these devastating floods.

<snip>

The airport was full of problems with corruption and poor work. No credibility there.

Long term flooding proposals have been around since at least 1983 (http://web.rid.go.th/ffd/papers/Paper-Session%201/p1-04%20Flood%20Mitigation%20Master%20Plan.pdf).

What "massive projects" does Thaksin have credibility with?

1. Solving the problems of the poor.

2. Fixing the traffic in Bangkok.

[rubl]

Please excuse me for wading into this debate about flood management and Thaksin uninvited, but a few points of fact(and some pithy quotes)may help to illuminate this increasingly bitter little thread and the news item in the BP which initiated it.

rest removed

I dislike posts where lots of little bits of truth are mixed with possibilities and suggestions, that's why I removed the rest

The OP is on a (IMHO) daft suggestion by k. Thaksin. Unidentified type of farm produce for water management expertise. Most expertise is in private companies who like CASH. You would need a third party who is willing to accept barter and pay cash to the expertise companies. Oh and those middleman would also like a percentage of course, good work deserves a fee.

With farm produce at the moment only getting scarcer and more expensive any suggestion of diverting produce seems contra-productive.

With barter suggestions failing miserably in 2003-2004 k. Thaksin should know better. Unless it's just a suggestion to be seen as being involved and keeping up the 'Thaksin thinks, others act' slogan. We have a country flooded, millions in a few feet of water and some are still playing games

Edited October 14, 2011 by rubl

[whybother]

Is it too "Un-PC" to say "VERY INFLUENTIAL TOES" (Why the heck are the sluice gates at Bhumipol dam still releasing water?????? Nakorn Sawan has had enough flooding thx!!!!)

Would you rather it fill beyond capacity and collapse? At least Nakorn Sawan wouldn't need to worry about flooding any more. 'cos it wouldn't be there.

[hyperdimension]

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

How much did Thaksin's and his families' wealth increase over his term as Prime Minister?

stop making up all those lies about lack of donations from Thaksin or his family to the people of Thailand.

Thaksin and the Thaicom foundation have donated large sums of money to flood victims in the past and presumably will continue to do so in the future. Here's a report from the Nation precisely a year ago, which despite the Nation's childish headline, provides evidence:

"He said he instructed Thaicom foundation, founded by him, to donate Bt5 million via the Thai Red Cross. He added that he and his family members provided additional funds to buy essential supplies for distribution to the victims."

http://www.nationmul...f-30140555.html

That's a year old, as you state, and his donations were more for public relations purposes as the title "Thaksin tries to upstage PM on flood relief" suggests. You probably dug that up because he hasn't donated anything this time around. If he did it would've been mentioned in this news article.Maybe he thinks he is being generous enough by spending time with a news reporter at a fine Dubai restaurant to outline his long-term anti-flooding recommendations.

Edited October 14, 2011 by hyperdimension

[rubl]

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

How much did Thaksin's and his families' wealth increase over his term as Prime Minister?

stop making up all those lies about lack of donations from Thaksin or his family to the people of Thailand.

Thaksin and the Thaicom foundation have donated large sums of money to flood victims in the past and presumably will continue to do so in the future. Here's a report from the Nation precisely a year ago, which despite the Nation's childish headline, provides evidence:

"He said he instructed Thaicom foundation, founded by him, to donate Bt5 million via the Thai Red Cross. He added that he and his family members provided additional funds to buy essential supplies for distribution to the victims."

http://www.nationmul...f-30140555.html

That's a year old, as you state, and his donations were more for public relations purposes as the title "Thaksin tries to upstage PM on flood relief" suggests. You probably dug that up because he hasn't donated anything this time around. If he did it would've been mentioned in this news article.Maybe he thinks he is being generous enough by spending time with a news reporter at a fine Dubai restaurant to outline his long-term anti-flooding recommendations.

Searching I only find a handful of articles / newsflashes about k. Thaksin having twittered "Thaicom Foundation donated 5Mln Bht to Thai Red Cross to help", or just "I instructed". One of the problems charity organisations have the last few years is 'well-known' people publicly announcing to donate with lots of publicity, but no concrete follow-up. I'm not saying k. Thaksin is one of them, but for sure the Red Cross will not give details even when asked.

[scotbeve]

Is it too "Un-PC" to say "VERY INFLUENTIAL TOES" (Why the heck are the sluice gates at Bhumipol dam still releasing water?????? Nakorn Sawan has had enough flooding thx!!!!)

Would you rather it fill beyond capacity and collapse? At least Nakorn Sawan wouldn't need to worry about flooding any more. 'cos it wouldn't be there.

So where is it in the news that the dam will collapse if continued (but unnecessary) sluice gate water is stopped? BTW - the weather is better today....

[scotbeve]

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

How much did Thaksin's and his families' wealth increase over his term as Prime Minister?

stop making up all those lies about lack of donations from Thaksin or his family to the people of Thailand.

Thaksin and the Thaicom foundation have donated large sums of money to flood victims in the past and presumably will continue to do so in the future. Here's a report from the Nation precisely a year ago, which despite the Nation's childish headline, provides evidence:

"He said he instructed Thaicom foundation, founded by him, to donate Bt5 million via the Thai Red Cross. He added that he and his family members provided additional funds to buy essential supplies for distribution to the victims."

http://www.nationmul...f-30140555.html

That's a year old, as you state, and his donations were more for public relations purposes as the title "Thaksin tries to upstage PM on flood relief" suggests. You probably dug that up because he hasn't donated anything this time around. If he did it would've been mentioned in this news article.Maybe he thinks he is being generous enough by spending time with a news reporter at a fine Dubai restaurant to outline his long-term anti-flooding recommendations.

Searching I only find a handful of articles / newsflashes about k. Thaksin having twittered "Thaicom Foundation donated 5Mln Bht to Thai Red Cross to help", or just "I instructed". One of the problems charity organisations have the last few years is 'well-known' people publicly announcing to donate with lots of publicity, but no concrete follow-up. I'm not saying k. Thaksin is one of them, but for sure the Red Cross will not give details even when asked.

I would still like to see a list of the top 50 donors.... IMO, it would be a shocker to some of the flame throwers on here.... no.... wait, they will not believe it. Scratch the whole idea.... So, why not let Mark announce the top 50? No, wait...... they'll need more time.....

[whybother]

Is it too "Un-PC" to say "VERY INFLUENTIAL TOES" (Why the heck are the sluice gates at Bhumipol dam still releasing water?????? Nakorn Sawan has had enough flooding thx!!!!)

Would you rather it fill beyond capacity and collapse? At least Nakorn Sawan wouldn't need to worry about flooding any more. 'cos it wouldn't be there.

So where is it in the news that the dam will collapse if continued (but unnecessary) sluice gate water is stopped? BTW - the weather is better today....

Unnecessary??? The dam was at 99% capacity? What do you think happens when it gets over capacity?

Yes, it should have been planned better. But to simply stop the release of water and let the dam over fill is just plain stupid. I thought you had more brains than that.

[scorecard]

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

How much did Thaksin's and his families' wealth increase over his term as Prime Minister?

stop making up all those lies about lack of donations from Thaksin or his family to the people of Thailand.

Thaksin and the Thaicom foundation have donated large sums of money to flood victims in the past and presumably will continue to do so in the future. Here's a report from the Nation precisely a year ago, which despite the Nation's childish headline, provides evidence:

"He said he instructed Thaicom foundation, founded by him, to donate Bt5 million via the Thai Red Cross. He added that he and his family members provided additional funds to buy essential supplies for distribution to the victims."

http://www.nationmul...f-30140555.html

That's a year old, as you state, and his donations were more for public relations purposes as the title "Thaksin tries to upstage PM on flood relief" suggests. You probably dug that up because he hasn't donated anything this time around. If he did it would've been mentioned in this news article.Maybe he thinks he is being generous enough by spending time with a news reporter at a fine Dubai restaurant to outline his long-term anti-flooding recommendations.

Searching I only find a handful of articles / newsflashes about k. Thaksin having twittered "Thaicom Foundation donated 5Mln Bht to Thai Red Cross to help", or just "I instructed". One of the problems charity organisations have the last few years is 'well-known' people publicly announcing to donate with lots of publicity, but no concrete follow-up. I'm not saying k. Thaksin is one of them, but for sure the Red Cross will not give details even when asked.

I would still like to see a list of the top 50 donors.... IMO, it would be a shocker to some of the flame throwers on here.... no.... wait, they will not believe it. Scratch the whole idea.... So, why not let Mark announce the top 50? No, wait...... they'll need more time.....

There is in fact a good example of thaksin making grand statements with no follow up: his much proclaimed Asian Leadership Foundation (or a very similar name), lots of big announcements about setting it up with all sorts of resources, and lots of scholarships. Nothing ever happened except a partly completed website, never finished and last heard of the website name was for sale.

By the way, nobody is saying that the dems are squeeky clean, there is no clean party. And they should all be brought to justice regardless of their party. That doesn't make thaksins raping of Thailand OK.

Edited October 15, 2011 by scorecard

[scotbeve]

Is it too "Un-PC" to say "VERY INFLUENTIAL TOES" (Why the heck are the sluice gates at Bhumipol dam still releasing water?????? Nakorn Sawan has had enough flooding thx!!!!)

Would you rather it fill beyond capacity and collapse? At least Nakorn Sawan wouldn't need to worry about flooding any more. 'cos it wouldn't be there.

So where is it in the news that the dam will collapse if continued (but unnecessary) sluice gate water is stopped? BTW - the weather is better today....

Unnecessary??? The dam was at 99% capacity? What do you think happens when it gets over capacity?

Yes, it should have been planned better. But to simply stop the release of water and let the dam over fill is just plain stupid. I thought you had more brains than that.

Whybother,

Not to be picky but above you say "was at 99%" - it hasn't been at 99% for almost 2 days and hasn't been raining in the catchment area. 1994 was a very heavy rain (non-stop ) year in the N and NE. I know very well what happens to overfull, non-maintained, corruption-ridden constructed dams but the Bhumipol dam is pretty sturdy..... So..... you're saying that there is a good chance of it breaking???? (for the second time...)

[whybother]

Whybother,

Not to be picky but above you say "was at 99%" - it hasn't been at 99% for almost 2 days and hasn't been raining in the catchment area. 1994 was a very heavy rain (non-stop ) year in the N and NE. I know very well what happens to overfull, non-maintained, corruption-ridden constructed dams but the Bhumipol dam is pretty sturdy..... So..... you're saying that there is a good chance of it breaking???? (for the second time...)

They reduced their outflow 2 days ago. (edit: actually, 4 days ago http://thaifinancialpost.com/2011/10/10/water-discharge-from-bhumibol-sirikit-dams-reduced/)

Any dam has a maximum capacity for which it is designed for. If it goes over that capacity, there IS a good chance of it breaking.

I don't know what the capacity of Bhumibol dam is. Do you want them to keep filling it up so that we can find out?

Edited October 15, 2011 by whybother

[Bagwan]

Thaksin as a latter day Canute? How does he plan to stop the deluge and floods? Let me tell him that AFAIK bribery, corruption, nepotism and sending 'the boys' round for a chat will not get the job done. Neither will suing people for millions of baht when they say things that he doesn't like, particularly when they are true. I suggest that he stays silent and continues his important but yet to be fruitful work towards solving Bangkok's traffic problem.

One option yet to be suggested is that this disaster is the work of evil spirits as it was in the case of the faults at Swampy that left egg on some faces. Has the monk hood anything to offer to ameliorate the situation?

[scotbeve]

Whybother,

Not to be picky but above you say "was at 99%" - it hasn't been at 99% for almost 2 days and hasn't been raining in the catchment area. 1994 was a very heavy rain (non-stop ) year in the N and NE. I know very well what happens to overfull, non-maintained, corruption-ridden constructed dams but the Bhumipol dam is pretty sturdy..... So..... you're saying that there is a good chance of it breaking???? (for the second time...)

They reduced their outflow 2 days ago. (edit: actually, 4 days ago http://thaifinancial...t-dams-reduced/)

Any dam has a maximum capacity for which it is designed for. If it goes over that capacity, there IS a good chance of it breaking.

I don't know what the capacity of Bhumibol dam is. Do you want them to keep filling it up so that we can find out?

We seem to be going in circles here.... New approach..... Why don't we agree upon that EGAT, the Irrigation folks, and anyone else involved with ALL the dam levels has not been doing their job properly?

[GazR]

Dear soylent green,

(BTW- that movie gave me nightmares for a while!!!)

A very good post of yours!

A rare, well-rounded post that may (I said may) keep the usual flame throwers at bay. We will see soon a list of donors and we will not be surprised at it's findings. I do suspect that those same usual flamer throwers will be asking for links for your #5 above as it is too unbelievable for them (tho' documented in ALL news groups)

Donors? The sort of donors whose grants PM Thaksin rejected so he could strut about declaring that he didn't need them because Thailand was now a developed country?

Donors? Like the banks PM Thaksin payed back early which cost the country hundreds of millions extra in increased borrowing costs?

Donors? Like every taxpayer who funded Thaksins enormous wealth increase during the East Asian Financial Crisis

Facts not flames.

[soylentgreen]

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Who are the crooks now?

How much did Thaksin's and his families' wealth increase over his term as Prime Minister?

stop making up all those lies about lack of donations from Thaksin or his family to the people of Thailand.

Thaksin and the Thaicom foundation have donated large sums of money to flood victims in the past and presumably will continue to do so in the future. Here's a report from the Nation precisely a year ago, which despite the Nation's childish headline, provides evidence:

"He said he instructed Thaicom foundation, founded by him, to donate Bt5 million via the Thai Red Cross. He added that he and his family members provided additional funds to buy essential supplies for distribution to the victims."

http://www.nationmul...f-30140555.html

That's a year old, as you state, and his donations were more for public relations purposes as the title "Thaksin tries to upstage PM on flood relief" suggests. You probably dug that up because he hasn't donated anything this time around. If he did it would've been mentioned in this news article.Maybe he thinks he is being generous enough by spending time with a news reporter at a fine Dubai restaurant to outline his long-term anti-flooding recommendations.

What you say, Hyperdimension, is untrue. Here are just some of Thaksin's donations in 2011:

Thaksin donates water pumps:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Kwanchai-Thaksin-buys-pumps-from-Korea-for-govt-to-30168463.html

Thaksin donates boats:

http://hilight.kapook.com/view/63611/6

and of course, his younger sister!

"Hyper dimensions may exist but they havr yet to donate water pumps and boats"

Soylentgreen, on the other hand, is people!

[whybother]

What you say, Hyperdimension, is untrue. Here are just some of Thaksin's donations in 2011:

Thaksin donates water pumps:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Kwanchai-Thaksin-buys-pumps-from-Korea-for-govt-to-30168463.html

Thaksin donates boats:

http://hilight.kapook.com/view/63611/6

and of course, his younger sister!

"Hyper dimensions may exist but they havr yet to donate water pumps and boats"

Soylentgreen, on the other hand, is people!

Thaksin Shinawatra has ordered pumps

Was there any news that they actually arrived?

[TAWP]

No, no news of them ever arrived or being put to use.

[soylentgreen]

What you say, Hyperdimension, is untrue. Here are just some of Thaksin's donations in 2011:

Thaksin donates water pumps:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Kwanchai-Thaksin-buys-pumps-from-Korea-for-govt-to-30168463.html

Thaksin donates boats:

http://hilight.kapook.com/view/63611/6

and of course, his younger sister!

"Hyper dimensions may exist but they havr yet to donate water pumps and boats"

Soylentgreen, on the other hand, is people!

Thaksin Shinawatra has ordered pumps

Was there any news that they actually arrived?

If you are interested to know about zee pumps, I suggest you contact Herr Thaksin who knows where they are:

https://www.facebook.com/thaksinlives?sk=info

Perhaps they are on zee rubbery boats or trucks now:

http://news.voicetv.co.th/in-english/23135.html

[whybother]

If you are interested to know about zee pumps, I suggest you contact Herr Thaksin who knows where they are:

https://www.facebook.com/thaksinlives?sk=info

Perhaps they are on zee rubbery boats or trucks now:

http://news.voicetv....lish/23135.html

There were plenty of photos of Thaksin and PTP MPs labeling publicly donated goods as their own.

[Ricardo]

What you say, Hyperdimension, is untrue. Here are just some of Thaksin's donations in 2011:

Thaksin donates water pumps:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Kwanchai-Thaksin-buys-pumps-from-Korea-for-govt-to-30168463.html

Thaksin donates boats:

http://hilight.kapook.com/view/63611/6

and of course, his younger sister!

"Hyper dimensions may exist but they havr yet to donate water pumps and boats"

Soylentgreen, on the other hand, is people!

Thaksin Shinawatra has ordered pumps

Was there any news that they actually arrived?

Or indeed who paid for them, "Thaksin donates water pumps" implies that he did, doesn't it ? Whereas merely placing an order for them might not.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Ricardo

[hellodolly]

Doesn't he have some ungodly amount money? Why don't he pony it up for better developing the system, that he DIDN'T develop when he had a chance to. Put your money where your mouth is Thaksin. (How about a LARGE donation for the efforts of flooding) If you can't then stay out of the countries business!!! Your an ass!

Much as I dislike Thaksin and all that he stands for I do believe that he had brought in water management experts.

Subsequent governments scrapped any suggestions.

I am not a expert but I would suggest releasing water from behind dams in the dry season not in the middle of monsoons.:jap:

[Skywalker69]

Thaksin would be well advised to worry about his jail-term when he comes back and not to interfere with things he does not fully understand

Wasen´t he recently in japan to lecture about flood management?

[soylentgreen]

Doesn't he have some ungodly amount money? Why don't he pony it up for better developing the system, that he DIDN'T develop when he had a chance to. Put your money where your mouth is Thaksin. (How about a LARGE donation for the efforts of flooding) If you can't then stay out of the countries business!!! Your an ass!

Much as I dislike Thaksin and all that he stands for I do believe that he had brought in water management experts.

Subsequent governments scrapped any suggestions.

I am not a expert but I would suggest releasing water from behind dams in the dry season not in the middle of monsoons.:jap:

That's interesting. Do you have any evidence for this? What we need here are more facts and less diatribe.

[waza]

soylentgreen, on 2011-10-14 04:47:39, said "Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively". However he didnt supply a link to this information. Through my research I can see that the originating source for this quote is site called TCIJ, this site provides no evidence of the accuracy of the quote. Seems its just another attempt to muddy the water.

[waza]

Doesn't he have some ungodly amount money? Why don't he pony it up for better developing the system, that he DIDN'T develop when he had a chance to. Put your money where your mouth is Thaksin. (How about a LARGE donation for the efforts of flooding) If you can't then stay out of the countries business!!! Your an ass!

Much as I dislike Thaksin and all that he stands for I do believe that he had brought in water management experts.

Subsequent governments scrapped any suggestions.

I am not a expert but I would suggest releasing water from behind dams in the dry season not in the middle of monsoons.:jap:

That's interesting. Do you have any evidence for this? What we need here are more facts and less diatribe.

Practice what you preach.............

[Skywalker69]

Bartering has been done before , chickens for fire trucks

I thought it was Jet Fighters from Sweden. The Fire Trucks were just some other thing still in the courts.

You´r right it was swedish jets.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2004/09/26/2003204444

[sparebox2]

soylentgreen, on 2011-10-14 04:47:39, said "Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively". However he didnt supply a link to this information. Through my research I can see that the originating source for this quote is site called TCIJ, this site provides no evidence of the accuracy of the quote. Seems its just another attempt to muddy the water.

The Sophonphanit up by half a billion is small change to her. They own Thailand's largest bank.

[looping]

Maybe T could consider bartering his conviction with some jail time