Tablet PCs Good For Students Provided 'Access Can Be Restricted'

[webfact]

Tablet PCs good for students provided 'access can be restricted'

Wannapa Khaopa

The Nation

It has been proved that tablet PCs can make passive students into active learners, an education seminar was told on Wednesday.

The Innovation for Education Foundation (InnoFed) launched a study last year to study the benefits and problems of using iPads in classrooms, InnoFed committee member Wiroj Assawarungsi said. The study covers schools in Bangkok, Chon Buri and Khon Kaen.

The study was presented as part of Educa 2011 and the 4th Annual Congress for Teacher Professional Development held at the Bangkok International Trade and Exhibition Centre. The threeday forum wraps up today.

At the opening ceremony of the forum, Sumate Yamnoon, adviser to the education minister, said: "To reach global standards, we should not just learn from our own experiences but also look outside and learn from others. One solution cannot be applied to all countries, but at least there are some models that work effectively in some countries and can be adapted to work for our country as well."

In the study, Wiroj said that good teaching methods were needed and teachers had to learn how to use different applications so they can encourage students' learning and get them to pay more attention in class.

"We have found that students focus more on tablet PCs, and though it was difficult for teachers to control them in the first week because they were not used to the technology, things became much easier later," he said, as he showed photographs of students using the iPad during class.

"Many students, including those who perform poorly or do not concentrate, showed a change in their behaviour. They seemed to find seeking answers and participating in education activities more enjoyable. By interacting with teachers, they have become active learners and some showed better academic performance," he added.

Wiroj said that though he fully backed the government's policy to hand out tablet PCs to students, he warned that teachers should first be trained properly otherwise youngsters would start misusing the devices. "If teachers are not prepared, don't hand them out to students," he advised.

He said the target group for this policy - Grade 1 students - were not too young to use these devices provided they participated in other activities as well and parents and teachers set rules for using their tablet PCs.

"In the US, children as young as twoandahalf years old use tablet PCs, which encourages them to go to school," he said.

Wiroj added that children's privacy, safety and security were crucial and the iPad had a contentrestriction function that could prevent the young from having access to improper or harmful content. Hence, the government should purchase tablets that have inbuilt restrictions. He also said that the government's idea to buy cheap devices was not good because they will be of low quality, and the battery might explode. Also, the devices might not have the restriction function.

The study, which involves tablet PCs being provided to many provincial schools, will be concluded by the end of this month. Schools interested in participating can call (02) 440 0330.

-- The Nation 2011-10-14

[whybother]

In the study, Wiroj said that good teaching methods were needed and teachers had to learn how to use different applications so they can encourage students' learning and get them to pay more attention in class.

Maybe if they had good teaching methods now, it wouldn't be such a difficult step up to using tablets.

[jybkk]

Many don't seem to understand what the fuss is all about.

The problem is not whether or not tablets are a good medium for education. It's actually pretty clear to most that it is helpful.

The problem is that the implementation of such a tool in the current state of Thai education system is completely unrealistic.

• People compare the 3000thb with the cost of the book but seem to forget that after the purchase of the tablet, a very complex infrastructure of management, repair, charging, update, bug-fixing and support has to be put in place.
• There is a great confusion about what these tablets are going to be. A 3000THB tablet has very little to do with an iPad. Corners are cut in every way possible to the point of being barely usable. Those currently sold in this price range are buggy, unresponsive and will have a battery life closer from the minutes than from the hours. Check "nanopad".
• The kids who will handle these tablets WILL break them. Oh, I know, when you're with your 4-year-old she does treat your iPad with care. So does she with the books she's reading with you standing next to her. Believe me, in the middle of a class of 30+, it's a totally different story.
• Who will put the content on these tablets? The ministry of education? Have you seen their websites? Do you trust them to come up with something viable or hire any relative with an obscure degree in computer science to come up with a joke of a software?
• Sure, there is a lot of resources online... in English. My experience in the Thai education system is that most of the teachers barely know how to use internet (unless to log on Hi5) and very few of them have enough proficiency to actually reach and use these resources

In short: tablets can be a very interesting teaching tool, but this specific project is guaranteed to result in a net loss of time, energy and money with no positive impact on Thai students.

It makes me sad to see all these people rushing towards the wall simply because they already promised too much and can't afford to change direction now and lose face.

This "study" is another attempt at justifying why they had good reasons to think it was a good idea, while they already know it's doomed to fail.

[nikster]

For iPads the infrastructure isn't complex but they would still need some content. While there is some out there it's all in English and since teachers don't speak English they won't install that

A 3000 baht tablet is going to be crap and use to no one, no matter what the infrastructure / support looks like.

A they say, poor people can't afford to buy cheap things. Would be better to buy 100 iPads rather than 1000 throwaways that are of use to no one.

[robsamui]

Many don't seem to understand what the fuss is all about.

The problem is not whether or not tablets are a good medium for education. It's actually pretty clear to most that it is helpful.

The problem is that the implementation of such a tool in the current state of Thai education system is completely unrealistic.

• People compare the 3000thb with the cost of the book but seem to forget that after the purchase of the tablet, a very complex infrastructure of management, repair, charging, update, bug-fixing and support has to be put in place.
• There is a great confusion about what these tablets are going to be. A 3000THB tablet has very little to do with an iPad. Corners are cut in every way possible to the point of being barely usable. Those currently sold in this price range are buggy, unresponsive and will have a battery life closer from the minutes than from the hours. Check "nanopad".
• The kids who will handle these tablets WILL break them. Oh, I know, when you're with your 4-year-old she does treat your iPad with care. So does she with the books she's reading with you standing next to her. Believe me, in the middle of a class of 30+, it's a totally different story.
• Who will put the content on these tablets? The ministry of education? Have you seen their websites? Do you trust them to come up with something viable or hire any relative with an obscure degree in computer science to come up with a joke of a software?
• Sure, there is a lot of resources online... in English. My experience in the Thai education system is that most of the teachers barely know how to use internet (unless to log on Hi5) and very few of them have enough proficiency to actually reach and use these resources

In short: tablets can be a very interesting teaching tool, but this specific project is guaranteed to result in a net loss of time, energy and money with no positive impact on Thai students.

It makes me sad to see all these people rushing towards the wall simply because they already promised too much and can't afford to change direction now and lose face.

This "study" is another attempt at justifying why they had good reasons to think it was a good idea, while they already know it's doomed to fail.

Well said.

It's yet another "loss of face" farce.

Having used this as an incentive to win votes, it's now (not) being supplied to a teaching force that doesn't know what to do with it or how to use it.

But re-training teachers would have been a useless campaign ploy.

The endless political gaffs here are pure comedy. No wonder the Thai nation wants to keep itself distant from farangs!

R

[robsamui]

Using a tablet to educate the kids.

A karaoke lesson in progress.

I am 100% in favour of this - they really really do need to be taught how to sing.

Excellent!

R

Edited October 14, 2011 by robsamui

[robsamui]

For iPads the infrastructure isn't complex but they would still need some content. While there is some out there it's all in English and since teachers don't speak English they won't install that

A 3000 baht tablet is going to be crap and use to no one, no matter what the infrastructure / support looks like.

A they say, poor people can't afford to buy cheap things. Would be better to buy 100 iPads rather than 1000 throwaways that are of use to no one.

Can anybody tell me why it is that, if no-one much can speak English, every headline in magazines and adverts is in English?

Do they simply ignore the English parts?

Why use English at all?

R

[wana]

For iPads the infrastructure isn't complex but they would still need some content. While there is some out there it's all in English and since teachers don't speak English they won't install that

A 3000 baht tablet is going to be crap and use to no one, no matter what the infrastructure / support looks like.

A they say, poor people can't afford to buy cheap things. Would be better to buy 100 iPads rather than 1000 throwaways that are of use to no one.

Can anybody tell me why it is that, if no-one much can speak English, every headline in magazines and adverts is in English?

Do they simply ignore the English parts?

Why use English at all?

R

the thai english teachers are handpicked ,some of whom because they may have been on holiday outside thailand once 10-20 years ago

the farang english teachers are usually unqualified backpackers hired from the khao san rd (who obviously cant speak thai or gain the respect of the children )

the students get a guaranteed pass for attending the class simply because the schools are businesses

and their parents pay a lot of money every term

actual learning is not required and some of them get away with using their iphones in class to play internet games

[Buchholz]

The Innovation for Education Foundation needs to do a completely new study.

This time study what the problems and benefits are of a 2,000 baht plastic piece instead of a 20,000 baht iPad.

See ya next year, InnoFed, with your results.

.

[wana]

thai people have short memorys (goldfish like )

they get promised all this stuff to get their vote

and they just forget when it never gets delivered

how did we go from

"every schoolchild will have one of these" (PM Yinluck waves a 20,000 thb ipad to the crowd )

to

some schools will not get them ,

techers are not ready for them ,

only if we can control the content ,

tablets maybe cheaper next year than this year

2000 thb chinese tablets may be unreliable ,

etc

etc

etc

[ParadiseLost]

If (very big 'if') these tablets are distributed, I would recommend they are not able to connect to the internet at all. In fact they should be stripped of all wireless capability. This will help to extend battery life and ensure no virus can be downloaded.

I would also disable USB and any other connectivity apart from a school 'docking' system to allow teachers to extract and upload data.

Ensure there are no games, or any other silly distractions and you have the perfect replacement for text and exercise books!

If the kids want to 'social network' give them a writing pad and pencil...

[Coolname]

Many don't seem to understand what the fuss is all about.

I agree with you on that point but will take it a step further - Yet, they still voice statements based on guessing and come to a conclusion that this is a failure.

I wonder what our parents thought when we went to school and the calculator was introduced – did they go though the same statements? It is too cheap to be good! It will break, it is only plastic, some will sell it, it is not as good as the Texas 400 Turbo we use at our accounting office, etc…

Let me say I do know what the fuss is about, I do know about this and similar projects on a professional level and as such in favor of this project – you have been warned.

In terms of cost-saving benefits, (and environmental benefits) the electronic version is cheaper than the printed version, but of course not from day one. Several countries (Thailand is not the first) have already shown clear savings after introducing tablets or text books most important of all they have shown kids getting more engaged in the lessons/curriculums. Most of these reports are available in public (online)

Contrary to what people think, a lot of Thai content is already available it is not like the current content has been handwritten or carved in stone before being printed. Content comes in various forms (It is not iPad) so it can be text/PDF, Apps, web-based content, or online software,

You are all right about the tablets, having little - to nothing to do with iPad. Apple has decided to make their system a closed system. If Thailand had decided to use that system it would have been, not only a gigantic cost, but it would also have made is harder to use, having to sign up to Apple service this-and-that in order to get content on the tablet.

No corners can be cut, when it comes to the tablet, actually I would say the opposite because these tablets will have to be able to function in hard conditions = Dust, moist, heat, on for several hours, in a kids schoolbag being thrown in the corner when home from school.

It might not be a CPU like in the iPad it might not be a screen like Samsung, but remember this device is for learning not for playing 3D Games or viewing 1080 HD videos. This device HAS to work – we are talking about our kids - our future here.

Are those that deliver the tablet doing it for free? No! But believe me there is not much room for profit in terms of making money on this project but in brand value – having delivered to this project is second to none. So all are steering in the same direction; to make this a success.

Jybkk writes: “Those Android tablets currently sold”…well remember they don’t cost 3000 baht to produce but well under half of the shop price. The price on the device itself is based on mold, license, and features. It is – no matter what people here think, possible to make a quality device based around that price.

You can hopefully imagine that ordering above 800.000 tablets will provide a very low manufacturing price. In fact this is such a huge order that it will affect the pricing on tablets worldwide, as you have just seen it with Amazon’s “Fire” which was/is only a small order compared to this. The day after it was revealed that 250.000 had pre-ordered the “Fire” the price on small screen tablets dropped, same happened when India launched their tablet (and even cheap tablet for normal shops) the price is also dropping now due to a new set of CPU’s on the market. Many manufactures are updating to a new A9 CPU and thus dropping the on the A8 CPU who in return is actually becoming faster.

While everyone is busy reading Apple-this-Samsung-that, it is actually no-name android tablets from China who takes second place after iPad, not Samsung.

End-user prices on tablets like i-mobile, Wellcom and other Chinese made “Thai” tablets are priced double the price of the manufacture in order to compensate for marketing, after sale service, warranty etc. If you order a tablet at a manufacture certain costs are external factory costs e.g the Bluetooth might be from Ericsson, The screen might come from a company in Thailand or Japan the rest is in-house. If you order 10 tablets similar to the above mentioned “Thai” tablets, the cost might be 100 USD (3000 baht) but if you order 1000 pcs. the cost is only 2700 Baht – now imagine ordering 1 million.

Jybkk writes: The kids who will handle these tablets WILL break them.

Of course! Hence the words spares and swaps even when a normal shop orders tablets to sell they are given x percentage extra for spare/swaps. Some of the testing going on involves putting the tablet in a school bag and dropping it on a floor, and it has to turn on after that. It also involves putting the tablet under extreme heat for hours to make sure the screen does not become slow in response to touch. It involves CE/ROHR approval. Not getting water under the screen when in moist condition let me add to this, that one Samsung model fails in one of the above mentioned tests, while other lower priced sails through.

Jybkk writes: Who will put the content on these tablets? The ministry of education? Have you seen their websites? Do you trust them to come up with something viable or hire any relative with an obscure degree in computer science to come up with a joke of software?

That you compare a website, to the complexity of the whole life-cycle of this project, kind of takes the air out of that question. But of course the content should be controlled by those who do it today with printed content. However we are talking about kids here so there is a need for an extra level of security and approval, since no one would like our youngster’s data floating around the internet.

Jybkk writes: Sure, there is a lot of resources online... in English. My experience in the Thai education system is that most of the teachers barely know how to use internet (unless to log on Hi5) and very few of them have enough proficiency to actually reach and use these resources.

…and so, we should just keep it that way - or should we try to improve? I thought learning was about evolving too.

Jybkk writes: “In short: tablets can be a very interesting teaching tool, but this specific project is guaranteed to result in a net loss of time, energy and money with no positive impact on Thai students.”

…and you come to that result based on your experience - or your own assumption?

So basically you want us to just stay where we are now and concentrate making our children ready to work in the heavy industry – although the rest of the world has learned or is learning that the Chinese can do this cheaper? Or has the time come now to give the kids a choice?

wana writes: "Every schoolchild will have one of these" (PM Yinluck waves a 20,000 thb ipad to the crowd )

No it was a Samsung tablet with production cost price similar to this project.

@ Paradise lost - No internet

You are right about longer battery life. Unfortunately viruses not only arrive via the internet but also via memory cards. I personally think some sort of internet should be available to the kids when in home (School might be a closed system) it is one thing to learn by memorizing, it is another to learn from research. Online access will also enhance the option of several kids collaborating in groups on various subjects while doing their homework.

There is another social factor to this as well, when you provide a device that can go online to a kid the whole family will be able to use this technology, small things like checking the flooding situation, price on rice at the market, weather reports for crops, etc., or perhaps even setting up a small website with OTOP products, area tourist information. Users in emerging markets are often leapfrogging on mobile technology and more than users in developed countries they find ways to use this technology to enhance their life - and I will say online access would be vital for this to happen.

[volk666]

Crappy tablets have been around for ages and no one was interested and no one will be interested in the future. Cheap tablets simply don't work. They are not copies of iPads only slower, they are a completely different class of device. They sure do look like tablets but the experience is totally different from what you get on iPad on respectable Androids. It is also not true that they are flying off the shelves, they compromise on experience so much that people don't buy them no matter how cheap they are.

You always get what you paid for, and the crucial point is not really in sourcing hardware, it's in managing the ecosystem, from custom Android Roms to replacement for Market to managing backend servers to providing apps and content to the device maintenance, and then it has to be integrated into Thai education system. That's the hardest part, any moron can negotiate a discount on wholesale deal with some no name, flight by night operator, there's no glory in that.

Are there any Thai made custom Android Roms out there on XDA? No, no one here does it. Are there at least any Thai Linux versions? No, no can do, never been done before, they've even dropped mirror support for Linux distros. Will be ready to ship by next May, yeah, right...

Just because an opportunist picks up on a clever idea as a shortcut to personal glory doesn't mean it's going to work and everybody else should be equally enthusiastic.

[jsflynn603]

For iPads the infrastructure isn't complex but they would still need some content. While there is some out there it's all in English and since teachers don't speak English they won't install that

A 3000 baht tablet is going to be crap and use to no one, no matter what the infrastructure / support looks like.

A they say, poor people can't afford to buy cheap things. Would be better to buy 100 iPads rather than 1000 throwaways that are of use to no one.

Can anybody tell me why it is that, if no-one much can speak English, every headline in magazines and adverts is in English?

Do they simply ignore the English parts?

Why use English at all?

R

the thai english teachers are handpicked ,some of whom because they may have been on holiday outside thailand once 10-20 years ago

the farang english teachers are usually unqualified backpackers hired from the khao san rd (who obviously cant speak thai or gain the respect of the children )

the students get a guaranteed pass for attending the class simply because the schools are businesses

and their parents pay a lot of money every term

actual learning is not required and some of them get away with using their iphones in class to play internet games

I think that some ignore English that they don't understand, though eventually the advertising teaches them some English. I remember as a child, I was very interested in science, and read books far above my ability, and I'd just ignore words that I did not understand, though in time, I learned them, often by association with what I did know. The same process probably works here.

They use English for the marketing aspects of it. English is still "desirable," most Thai students grasp this concept. Indeed, in time English may be passed over as Mandarin may take precedence--if the global economy continues that time may be sooner than later.

The best Thai English teachers (unless they have studied in England/America/Canada do an ok job of teaching, but are inadequate compared to a trained native speaking teacher.

English speaking teachers without training also are adequate if the teacher really cares to teach. Those who should be teaching are teachers with TESOL or other Certificates (Teaching English as a Second Language).

I've watch my Thai gf go from "hello" through fourteen levels at AUA (American Univesity Alumni) in Chiang Mai. I score extremely high on any English ability test, yet often I am totally at a loss to explain simple concepts due to my woefully inadequate grammar knowledge. I have no problem using grammar, but I often could not explain the "why," and explaining the "why it is so" is essential to a person learning English. It is sad that the Thai government does not actively make it easy for certificate holders to obtain Visas. There are many who would be happy to teach as a volunteer for free in rural areas. Yes there is the concept of, if a farang comes to teach, there is one less job for a Thai, but in reality most native Thais who teach English are mediocre at best.

To back up what may be seen as a derogatory comment let me say that I have seen the difficulties of a friend who runs a small school that teaches English to Thais. He is Thai, and has been an avid student of the English language, and I think he is now an excellent teacher. He instills confidence and interest in his students and indeed they learn English well enough to use it to communicate with farang within Thailand. He is currently studying for her Masters in English Language Teaching (Ma-ELT) at ABAC (Assumption University). I cringe to see the difficulty he faces after reading lessons. His word knowledge is excellent. His difficulty is almost entirely within grammar, and in time he is avid enough to possibly complete the MA-ELT, and if so, I suspect he will be as good or a better than other trained native-English speakers. But less than one in a thousand Thai English teachers will travel that path.

As far as the tablets I'll only say this: Since computers have become endemic in America the average (note: average, there are exceptions) American student, now entering college, has a woefully inadequate grasp of the ability to spell, write, or speak English with either a reasonable amount of acumen and often without any concept of style. Almost all of them read at a level lower than expected and worse, most simply do not care to read for enjoyment. The love of books and reading seems largely absent in so many. I think that when young people use computers it takes away the need and thus the interest to read. To a reader, computers opens an entire world of knowledge, but to a person who lacks the love of reading, it becomes more like the television, simple pablum for the masses.

The young mind will always attempt to use any device to increase personal power. Knowledge is power, yet the young person instinctively gravitates away from using this technology for knowledge and instead uses it for the perceived power of social acceptance instead, therefore within schools there will always be a battle between using the computer for the attainment of knowledge and the instinctive desire to use this fascinating (and addictive) technology for social acceptance. Add to this the amazingly integrated and effective commercialism (advertising) which id's the person, and tracks her though life (I challenge anyone to show how you cannot be tracked--it is now almost impossible) "feeding" advertising. The young mind is extremely susceptible to this form of advertising because of the innate desire of the child (including teens) to be accepted. Personally I think that the computer for many (not for all) will lead to an eventual world-wide "dumbing down" of youth.

It is fascinating to watch and as great a change as the Industrial Revolution was.

Edited October 14, 2011 by jsflynn603

[jybkk]

Let me say I do know what the fuss is about, I do know about this and similar projects on a professional level and as such in favor of this project – you have been warned.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer so precisely.

You make a lot of very good points.

I wish such a debate existed between the people in charge, because I'd be much more optimistic about the success of this project then.

As I said, I'm pessimistic not because of the qualities of such a project but because of the confidence I have in the capacity of Thai ministry of education to do it properly.

I was an IT Manager back in Europe. Part of my work was have people in workshop use IT systems.

Then, when I first came to Thailand, I worked as a foreign teacher in a Thai public school in Bangkok.

I've experienced first-hand the daily madness of this administration. Absolutely no decision made sense. Everything was about looking good and politics. Quality of the education was judged through VIP visits of the school and end-of year tests. The visits were announced very early and the weeks before were used to prepare a demonstration of the student skills, that had nothing to do with the actual daily teachings. The tests were rigged. Most of the teachers gave a similar (if not identical) one to the student a week or two before, and no-one was to authorized to fail a student. I was personnally asked by a Director to falsify the results of my test so it appeared all the students passed.

In these conditions, whatever the theoretical value of such a project, its complexity is way past the capacity of the current admisnitration to handle.

My list is meant to show all the hurdles they'll have to pass. As you demonstrated, there's a solution for each of them but I can't believe they will manage to get around them all.

I do believe the only solution for long-term progress in Thailand is through education. The efforts of the nation MUST be put towards this. But they should have realistic goals, and this project is one step too far for now. When I was teaching, there were so many things missing. We didn't even have things as simple as proper chairs, fans in the classrooms of copiers...

There are so many things that can be improved right here, right now, for zero cost. On my side, I tried to bring change where I could, but I soon realized it was limited to my classroom. Out of that I was the farang and nobody was ready to even acknowledge the idea of improvement, because in their eye, it only meant they were doing bad before.

So to answer your question: yes, this is my opinion based on my personal experience within the Thai education system.

Let's focus on having the basics right first, before we go for the advanced education. This project can't compensate for the lack of a proper curriculum, a decently organized administration or properly trained trachers. I think it won't be "better than nothing", because it will result in diverting money from more important things.

[serenitynow]

I wonder what our parents thought when we went to school and the calculator was introduced – did they go though the same statements? It is too cheap to be good! It will break, it is only plastic, some will sell it, it is not as good as the Texas 400 Turbo we use at our accounting office, etc…

Since you asked, the Texas Instrument calculator was introduced in my Junior year in High School. It originally started out at $169.00, but quickly came down to $79.95. While it could do certain functions rather quickly my math abilities had already surpassed the initial model introduced. As for my father's feelings on the mattter, he figured calculators were for stupid people. I disagreed with him, but what I've observed in Thailand these past 10 years would seem to vaidate his claim.

Edited October 16, 2011 by serenitynow

[endure]

Completely off topic but looking at the picture in the OP it struck me how many of the students could be described as 'chubby'.

[endure]

I wonder what our parents thought when we went to school and the calculator was introduced – did they go though the same statements? It is too cheap to be good! It will break, it is only plastic, some will sell it, it is not as good as the Texas 400 Turbo we use at our accounting office, etc…

I wasn't taught how to use a slide rule until I was 24. When the first (fixed point 6 digit calculators) came along I thought they were wonderful. In 1980 navigating officers on the ships I was on were paying £400 to buy calculators that would work out a complete set of sights rather than doodling about with nautical almanacs.

[serenitynow]

I wonder what our parents thought when we went to school and the calculator was introduced – did they go though the same statements? It is too cheap to be good! It will break, it is only plastic, some will sell it, it is not as good as the Texas 400 Turbo we use at our accounting office, etc…

I wasn't taught how to use a slide rule until I was 24. When the first (fixed point 6 digit calculators) came along I thought they were wonderful. In 1980 navigating officers on the ships I was on were paying £400 to buy calculators that would work out a complete set of sights rather than doodling about with nautical almanacs.

I've got a Tamaya navigational calculator. i just did a google for it and it led me to a site called "vintagecalculators.com" . That stung a bit

[endure]

I wonder what our parents thought when we went to school and the calculator was introduced – did they go though the same statements? It is too cheap to be good! It will break, it is only plastic, some will sell it, it is not as good as the Texas 400 Turbo we use at our accounting office, etc…

I wasn't taught how to use a slide rule until I was 24. When the first (fixed point 6 digit calculators) came along I thought they were wonderful. In 1980 navigating officers on the ships I was on were paying £400 to buy calculators that would work out a complete set of sights rather than doodling about with nautical almanacs.

I've got a Tamaya navigational calculator. i just did a google for it and it led me to a site called "vintagecalculators.com" . That stung a bit

That's the one. They were all using the NC-77.

[tlansford]

Appreciate the post. I especially agree with the last paragraph and the social aspects. When a project such as this is rolled-out on a national level, it changes the way the kids learn, but it also changes the social aspects of "what is possible" followed by "what people expect" because there is a large innovation-factor related to products and services which rides on the coattails of such project. I firmly believe in the internet connectivity. To not do so would be a massive mistake (IMO).

As for prices and capabilities of the tablets, there are already some perfectly acceptable android tablets in this price range when you're buying a single unit online. With the volume of this project, I'd love to see the RFQ and the bids. I have the feeling they'll be getting some good value. And the technology is changing so fast.

Many don't seem to understand what the fuss is all about.

I agree with you on that point but will take it a step further - Yet, they still voice statements based on guessing and come to a conclusion that this is a failure.

I wonder what our parents thought when we went to school and the calculator was introduced – did they go though the same statements? It is too cheap to be good! It will break, it is only plastic, some will sell it, it is not as good as the Texas 400 Turbo we use at our accounting office, etc…

Let me say I do know what the fuss is about, I do know about this and similar projects on a professional level and as such in favor of this project – you have been warned.

In terms of cost-saving benefits, (and environmental benefits) the electronic version is cheaper than the printed version, but of course not from day one. Several countries (Thailand is not the first) have already shown clear savings after introducing tablets or text books most important of all they have shown kids getting more engaged in the lessons/curriculums. Most of these reports are available in public (online)

Contrary to what people think, a lot of Thai content is already available it is not like the current content has been handwritten or carved in stone before being printed. Content comes in various forms (It is not iPad) so it can be text/PDF, Apps, web-based content, or online software,

You are all right about the tablets, having little - to nothing to do with iPad. Apple has decided to make their system a closed system. If Thailand had decided to use that system it would have been, not only a gigantic cost, but it would also have made is harder to use, having to sign up to Apple service this-and-that in order to get content on the tablet.

No corners can be cut, when it comes to the tablet, actually I would say the opposite because these tablets will have to be able to function in hard conditions = Dust, moist, heat, on for several hours, in a kids schoolbag being thrown in the corner when home from school.

It might not be a CPU like in the iPad it might not be a screen like Samsung, but remember this device is for learning not for playing 3D Games or viewing 1080 HD videos. This device HAS to work – we are talking about our kids - our future here.

Are those that deliver the tablet doing it for free? No! But believe me there is not much room for profit in terms of making money on this project but in brand value – having delivered to this project is second to none. So all are steering in the same direction; to make this a success.

Jybkk writes: "Those Android tablets currently sold"…well remember they don't cost 3000 baht to produce but well under half of the shop price. The price on the device itself is based on mold, license, and features. It is – no matter what people here think, possible to make a quality device based around that price.

You can hopefully imagine that ordering above 800.000 tablets will provide a very low manufacturing price. In fact this is such a huge order that it will affect the pricing on tablets worldwide, as you have just seen it with Amazon's "Fire" which was/is only a small order compared to this. The day after it was revealed that 250.000 had pre-ordered the "Fire" the price on small screen tablets dropped, same happened when India launched their tablet (and even cheap tablet for normal shops) the price is also dropping now due to a new set of CPU's on the market. Many manufactures are updating to a new A9 CPU and thus dropping the on the A8 CPU who in return is actually becoming faster.

While everyone is busy reading Apple-this-Samsung-that, it is actually no-name android tablets from China who takes second place after iPad, not Samsung.

End-user prices on tablets like i-mobile, Wellcom and other Chinese made "Thai" tablets are priced double the price of the manufacture in order to compensate for marketing, after sale service, warranty etc. If you order a tablet at a manufacture certain costs are external factory costs e.g the Bluetooth might be from Ericsson, The screen might come from a company in Thailand or Japan the rest is in-house. If you order 10 tablets similar to the above mentioned "Thai" tablets, the cost might be 100 USD (3000 baht) but if you order 1000 pcs. the cost is only 2700 Baht – now imagine ordering 1 million.

Jybkk writes: The kids who will handle these tablets WILL break them.

Of course! Hence the words spares and swaps even when a normal shop orders tablets to sell they are given x percentage extra for spare/swaps. Some of the testing going on involves putting the tablet in a school bag and dropping it on a floor, and it has to turn on after that. It also involves putting the tablet under extreme heat for hours to make sure the screen does not become slow in response to touch. It involves CE/ROHR approval. Not getting water under the screen when in moist condition let me add to this, that one Samsung model fails in one of the above mentioned tests, while other lower priced sails through.

Jybkk writes: Who will put the content on these tablets? The ministry of education? Have you seen their websites? Do you trust them to come up with something viable or hire any relative with an obscure degree in computer science to come up with a joke of software?

That you compare a website, to the complexity of the whole life-cycle of this project, kind of takes the air out of that question. But of course the content should be controlled by those who do it today with printed content. However we are talking about kids here so there is a need for an extra level of security and approval, since no one would like our youngster's data floating around the internet.

Jybkk writes: Sure, there is a lot of resources online... in English. My experience in the Thai education system is that most of the teachers barely know how to use internet (unless to log on Hi5) and very few of them have enough proficiency to actually reach and use these resources.

…and so, we should just keep it that way - or should we try to improve? I thought learning was about evolving too.

Jybkk writes: "In short: tablets can be a very interesting teaching tool, but this specific project is guaranteed to result in a net loss of time, energy and money with no positive impact on Thai students."

…and you come to that result based on your experience - or your own assumption?

So basically you want us to just stay where we are now and concentrate making our children ready to work in the heavy industry – although the rest of the world has learned or is learning that the Chinese can do this cheaper? Or has the time come now to give the kids a choice?

wana writes: "Every schoolchild will have one of these" (PM Yinluck waves a 20,000 thb ipad to the crowd )

No it was a Samsung tablet with production cost price similar to this project.

@ Paradise lost - No internet

You are right about longer battery life. Unfortunately viruses not only arrive via the internet but also via memory cards. I personally think some sort of internet should be available to the kids when in home (School might be a closed system) it is one thing to learn by memorizing, it is another to learn from research. Online access will also enhance the option of several kids collaborating in groups on various subjects while doing their homework.

There is another social factor to this as well, when you provide a device that can go online to a kid the whole family will be able to use this technology, small things like checking the flooding situation, price on rice at the market, weather reports for crops, etc., or perhaps even setting up a small website with OTOP products, area tourist information. Users in emerging markets are often leapfrogging on mobile technology and more than users in developed countries they find ways to use this technology to enhance their life - and I will say online access would be vital for this to happen.

[serenitynow]

Appreciate the post. I especially agree with the last paragraph and the social aspects. When a project such as this is rolled-out on a national level, it changes the way the kids learn, but it also changes the social aspects of "what is possible" followed by "what people expect" because there is a large innovation-factor related to products and services which rides on the coattails of such project. I firmly believe in the internet connectivity. To not do so would be a massive mistake (IMO).

As for prices and capabilities of the tablets, there are already some perfectly acceptable android tablets in this price range when you're buying a single unit online. With the volume of this project, I'd love to see the RFQ and the bids. I have the feeling they'll be getting some good value. And the technology is changing so fast.

Many don't seem to understand what the fuss is all about.

I agree with you on that point but will take it a step further - Yet, they still voice statements based on guessing and come to a conclusion that this is a failure.

I wonder what our parents thought when we went to school and the calculator was introduced – did they go though the same statements? It is too cheap to be good! It will break, it is only plastic, some will sell it, it is not as good as the Texas 400 Turbo we use at our accounting office, etc…

Let me say I do know what the fuss is about, I do know about this and similar projects on a professional level and as such in favor of this project – you have been warned.

In terms of cost-saving benefits, (and environmental benefits) the electronic version is cheaper than the printed version, but of course not from day one. Several countries (Thailand is not the first) have already shown clear savings after introducing tablets or text books most important of all they have shown kids getting more engaged in the lessons/curriculums. Most of these reports are available in public (online)

Contrary to what people think, a lot of Thai content is already available it is not like the current content has been handwritten or carved in stone before being printed. Content comes in various forms (It is not iPad) so it can be text/PDF, Apps, web-based content, or online software,

You are all right about the tablets, having little - to nothing to do with iPad. Apple has decided to make their system a closed system. If Thailand had decided to use that system it would have been, not only a gigantic cost, but it would also have made is harder to use, having to sign up to Apple service this-and-that in order to get content on the tablet.

No corners can be cut, when it comes to the tablet, actually I would say the opposite because these tablets will have to be able to function in hard conditions = Dust, moist, heat, on for several hours, in a kids schoolbag being thrown in the corner when home from school.

It might not be a CPU like in the iPad it might not be a screen like Samsung, but remember this device is for learning not for playing 3D Games or viewing 1080 HD videos. This device HAS to work – we are talking about our kids - our future here.

Are those that deliver the tablet doing it for free? No! But believe me there is not much room for profit in terms of making money on this project but in brand value – having delivered to this project is second to none. So all are steering in the same direction; to make this a success.

Jybkk writes: "Those Android tablets currently sold"…well remember they don't cost 3000 baht to produce but well under half of the shop price. The price on the device itself is based on mold, license, and features. It is – no matter what people here think, possible to make a quality device based around that price.

You can hopefully imagine that ordering above 800.000 tablets will provide a very low manufacturing price. In fact this is such a huge order that it will affect the pricing on tablets worldwide, as you have just seen it with Amazon's "Fire" which was/is only a small order compared to this. The day after it was revealed that 250.000 had pre-ordered the "Fire" the price on small screen tablets dropped, same happened when India launched their tablet (and even cheap tablet for normal shops) the price is also dropping now due to a new set of CPU's on the market. Many manufactures are updating to a new A9 CPU and thus dropping the on the A8 CPU who in return is actually becoming faster.

While everyone is busy reading Apple-this-Samsung-that, it is actually no-name android tablets from China who takes second place after iPad, not Samsung.

End-user prices on tablets like i-mobile, Wellcom and other Chinese made "Thai" tablets are priced double the price of the manufacture in order to compensate for marketing, after sale service, warranty etc. If you order a tablet at a manufacture certain costs are external factory costs e.g the Bluetooth might be from Ericsson, The screen might come from a company in Thailand or Japan the rest is in-house. If you order 10 tablets similar to the above mentioned "Thai" tablets, the cost might be 100 USD (3000 baht) but if you order 1000 pcs. the cost is only 2700 Baht – now imagine ordering 1 million.

Jybkk writes: The kids who will handle these tablets WILL break them.

Of course! Hence the words spares and swaps even when a normal shop orders tablets to sell they are given x percentage extra for spare/swaps. Some of the testing going on involves putting the tablet in a school bag and dropping it on a floor, and it has to turn on after that. It also involves putting the tablet under extreme heat for hours to make sure the screen does not become slow in response to touch. It involves CE/ROHR approval. Not getting water under the screen when in moist condition let me add to this, that one Samsung model fails in one of the above mentioned tests, while other lower priced sails through.

Jybkk writes: Who will put the content on these tablets? The ministry of education? Have you seen their websites? Do you trust them to come up with something viable or hire any relative with an obscure degree in computer science to come up with a joke of software?

That you compare a website, to the complexity of the whole life-cycle of this project, kind of takes the air out of that question. But of course the content should be controlled by those who do it today with printed content. However we are talking about kids here so there is a need for an extra level of security and approval, since no one would like our youngster's data floating around the internet.

Jybkk writes: Sure, there is a lot of resources online... in English. My experience in the Thai education system is that most of the teachers barely know how to use internet (unless to log on Hi5) and very few of them have enough proficiency to actually reach and use these resources.

…and so, we should just keep it that way - or should we try to improve? I thought learning was about evolving too.

Jybkk writes: "In short: tablets can be a very interesting teaching tool, but this specific project is guaranteed to result in a net loss of time, energy and money with no positive impact on Thai students."

…and you come to that result based on your experience - or your own assumption?

So basically you want us to just stay where we are now and concentrate making our children ready to work in the heavy industry – although the rest of the world has learned or is learning that the Chinese can do this cheaper? Or has the time come now to give the kids a choice?

wana writes: "Every schoolchild will have one of these" (PM Yinluck waves a 20,000 thb ipad to the crowd )

No it was a Samsung tablet with production cost price similar to this project.

@ Paradise lost - No internet

You are right about longer battery life. Unfortunately viruses not only arrive via the internet but also via memory cards. I personally think some sort of internet should be available to the kids when in home (School might be a closed system) it is one thing to learn by memorizing, it is another to learn from research. Online access will also enhance the option of several kids collaborating in groups on various subjects while doing their homework.

There is another social factor to this as well, when you provide a device that can go online to a kid the whole family will be able to use this technology, small things like checking the flooding situation, price on rice at the market, weather reports for crops, etc., or perhaps even setting up a small website with OTOP products, area tourist information. Users in emerging markets are often leapfrogging on mobile technology and more than users in developed countries they find ways to use this technology to enhance their life - and I will say online access would be vital for this to happen.

I agree with everything you said, but I have to ask, have you ever met a Thai teacher, and most especaially a Thai school administrator? If theory could become reaity what a magnicent country this could be.

[TAWP]

As for prices and capabilities of the tablets, there are already some perfectly acceptable android tablets in this price range when you're buying a single unit online.

No, there doesn't.

You are welcome to show that there is - we have several times linked the ones that exist in the same price-range and their abysmal reviews.

[robsamui]

For iPads the infrastructure isn't complex but they would still need some content. While there is some out there it's all in English and since teachers don't speak English they won't install that

A 3000 baht tablet is going to be crap and use to no one, no matter what the infrastructure / support looks like.

A they say, poor people can't afford to buy cheap things. Would be better to buy 100 iPads rather than 1000 throwaways that are of use to no one.

Can anybody tell me why it is that, if no-one much can speak English, every headline in magazines and adverts is in English?

Do they simply ignore the English parts?

Why use English at all?

R

the thai english teachers are handpicked ,some of whom because they may have been on holiday outside thailand once 10-20 years ago

the farang english teachers are usually unqualified backpackers hired from the khao san rd (who obviously cant speak thai or gain the respect of the children )

the students get a guaranteed pass for attending the class simply because the schools are businesses

and their parents pay a lot of money every term

actual learning is not required and some of them get away with using their iphones in class to play internet games

Oh. Is that why the headlines are in English? Good to know.

R

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, the question of how technology in general (and computer hardware and software in particular) could be useful in assisting learning is quite controversial. If the software being used is simply a big well-illustrated text document (even if some of the illustrations are interactive or animated, or are movies), then it is really no further a step in actual 'education' than textbooks themselves. A teacher would not be considered particularly talented simply for asking students to look at or read a textbook or video, though those things can certainly be part of a lesson.

Even if the software was well-designed by the standards of the most effective teaching principles (a big if), there is a danger that the software may focus only on individual learning- one student, one computer- which may not be the most effective option, and discourages social incentives to learn. Also, if reliance is only on the software, it may tend to cause teachers to relax too much and become self-constrained to available software options instead of looking for ways to be more wideranging, spontaneous, and creative- 'if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail'.

I rarely use computers for in-class educational activities for these kinds of reasons. I prefer to encourage group work and discussion of approaches to problem solving for tasks that I assign.

To recap in a nutshell, it doesn't matter for the purpose of education whether what is happening in the classroom involves state of the art computers, or things you could find at home in the kitchen- what matters is what is happening in the students' minds. Unfortunately, that rarely seems to be what is evaluated when the issue of learning technology is considered, and the 'gee-whiz, won't this make us look good (and generate lots of kickback income)' takes the front seat.

Thailand has not even begun to deal with the privacy and risk issues associated with officially sanctioned online computer use by students in schools.

[monkfish]

As for prices and capabilities of the tablets, there are already some perfectly acceptable android tablets in this price range when you're buying a single unit online.

No, there doesn't.

You are welcome to show that there is - we have several times linked the ones that exist in the same price-range and their abysmal reviews.

So true!

I have a freind who bought one of these cheapo ibooks from China in his view a comlpete waste of money at 3000 bht, the reason he gave was you can not even connect to the interne!!

As a joke he said the only use for such a device would be as an E-book reader not more!

Question is, would it be possible if large quantities were ordered that an extra chip could be added allowing restricted internet access to educational servers containing just -Ebooks?

In my view the such cheapo Ipads would probably only have something like an average lifespan of 1 year, not sure this would bring any advantage over copy books which will cost a bit more but for sure last longer.

The concept' is very interesting though and if it works may be even Superior western countries such as USA will follow suit!!

Lets see

[tlansford]

As for prices and capabilities of the tablets, there are already some perfectly acceptable android tablets in this price range when you're buying a single unit online.

No, there doesn't.

You are welcome to show that there is - we have several times linked the ones that exist in the same price-range and their abysmal reviews.

Some of this is slightly repetitive as coolname addressed the cost / performance issues already.

There are tablets that exist in this price range. There is a price range around $100 - $140. The program needs $100 for 3000B. These tablets can be used for education applications (its already been said that this is not an iPad). That is at a one-off purchase, retail price.

3 important differences for this program compared to you and me buying a tablet today...

1) this goes out to bid - the schools will get the best possible technology available at the best possible price that fits their budget. Even if it were built today, it would have better price/performance than anything you and I can buy.

2) it's not going to be built today. For the sake of discussion, if the first round goes out for bid next month, decision in January, build in March, then it gets built with the price / performance of March. The technology in a tablet is moving fast. Then it is unlikely that they'll do one massive purchase but rather roll out the program. Multiple bids / build cycles with the price / performance improving each time.

3) it's direct procurement - no channel margin, no channel / hub inventory, no retail mark-up, no marketing costs. An OEM from China goes in and bids direct. And they work with all the technology suppliers for the tablet to drive down their procurement costs for this project on top of that (and believe me, they'll get good component pricing) Everything, the processor, display, memory, wireless, will get super pricing for bids this large.

I think that it will be very interesting to see how they roll this out.

[DavidHouston]

I believe that a good model for instituting tablets in schools for student use is the "One Laptop Per Child" model initiated by MIT in the U.S. and which was the program chosen by P.M. Thaksin before he was overthrown. In this model the hardware is a secondary consideration; the primary driver is what they call "Constructionism" whereby children learn creatively by doing. See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Constructionism .

The One Laptop Per Child establishment is coming out with an inexpensive tablet, the OLPC XO-3, http://gizmodo.com/5549053/olpc-xo+3-dream-tablet-buoyed-by-marvell but whether this is what the Thai educational establishment has in mind is unknown.

Seems to me that it is a great idea if Thailand were to bring a table manufacturing plant into the country to fill the very large need the government created by this initiative. Once this industry is well-established, other consumer products could be manufactured here.

[jybkk]

I agree with everything you said, but I have to ask, have you ever met a Thai teacher, and most especaially a Thai school administrator? If theory could become reaity what a magnicent country this could be.

That was also my point. No matter how great the idea is in theory (and I strongly believe in the need for education to be on par with technology and the modern world), my first hand experience with Thai education system tells me they won't be able to handle such an ambitious change.