Abhisit Blames Thai Govt For Misjudging Flood Threat To Nava Nakorn

[xminator]

In related news Suthep blames Thaksin for sunset at 5:59 when it would be more convenient with sunset at 7:15.

Still 4 years for next election, so Democrats might want to save some ammunition and consider helping when the nation is in crisis. A lesser opponent might have countered by noting that they received a flood prevention system suffering from 5 years of disrepair.

[maidu]

I think it's very likely that some of the best brains in the country are now engaged with these problems.

Try not to mock.

Sorry Phil, I'm trying not to mock, but my mockness comes through nevertheless. "Best Brains in the country" ....is that anything like 'Best Foods" which makes mayonnaise with oil, sugar and corn syrup'? Did some of these 'best brains' implement the plan to use little boats to accelerate a bit of surface water for 15 meters, until the water hit yet more water at its same level, and returned to its ambient flow speed. I'll try not to mock further, but it's a tough assignment. And, in a non-mockish moment, I do send best wishes to the many people made miserable by these floods.

[OZEMADE]

Both governments dropped the ball. Yingluck's, because she's a follower, not a leader and hasn't had an original idea since she was playing with plastic cooking toys on her mom's kitchen floor.

Abhisit can't point fingers about timely action and leadership, as his government waited 8 weeks before taking any dynamic action to evict the messy red-shirted squatters in central Bkk.

HMMMmmm seem to remember there were some extreme flooding down south, costing a lot of people their lives. This was when he Abhisit was the Prime minister.

[h90]

More than 100 years ago my ancestors in Holland already build dykes against the water and we still profit from their work TODAY!

What have the Thai people done so far against water? Nothing today, nothing tomorrow and nothing in the next 100 years!

Sorry about this negative comment.

Cloggie

Read the book of history....Thai people did a lot, politicians blocked a lot. If you read Thai history you loose your believe in democracy.

[h90]

Both governments dropped the ball. Yingluck's, because she's a follower, not a leader and hasn't had an original idea since she was playing with plastic cooking toys on her mom's kitchen floor.

Abhisit can't point fingers about timely action and leadership, as his government waited 8 weeks before taking any dynamic action to evict the messy red-shirted squatters in central Bkk.

HMMMmmm seem to remember there were some extreme flooding down south, costing a lot of people their lives. This was when he Abhisit was the Prime minister.

And I was there in the middle! Well organized and good informed in compare with now.

[animatic]

Interesting that about this time last year, Peau Thai "demanded legal action against PM (Abhisit)"

"The opposition Puea Thai Party on Friday petitioned the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) to take legal action against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, claiming he acted too slowly to counter the effects from the recent flooding, resulting in massive damage to property and many deaths."

I hope they don't complain too much if people start demanding that Yingluck get's legal action against her.

The irony has a near ecstatic quality to it!

[whybother]

In related news Suthep blames Thaksin for sunset at 5:59 when it would be more convenient with sunset at 7:15.

Still 4 years for next election, so Democrats might want to save some ammunition and consider helping when the nation is in crisis. A lesser opponent might have countered by noting that they received a flood prevention system suffering from 5 years of disrepair.

Try 50 years of disrepair.

[Cayenne]

It is Abhisit's duty as opposition leader to provide checks and balances to the government and to provide critical views of the government when needed. At least that is what taypayers who are paying his salary expect from him.

I don't like Abhisit and his style of management at times, but at least he is doing job unlike the opposition last year when they rarely attended parliamentary sessions (wasting taypayers' money) but preferred instead to use extra-parliamentary forces a.k.a. the red shirts.

[serenitynow]

It is Abhisit's duty as opposition leader to provide checks and balances to the government and to provide critical views of the government when needed. At least that is what taypayers who are paying his salary expect from him.

I don't like Abhisit and his style of management at times, but at least he is doing job unlike the opposition last year when they rarely attended parliamentary sessions (wasting taypayers' money) but preferred instead to use extra-parliamentary forces a.k.a. the red shirts.

The truth would seem to be that they neither know how to conduct themselves as a "loyal opposition" nor how to govern when in the majority. The question is , what is their goal if it is neither of those?

Edited October 18, 2011 by serenitynow

[whybother]

The truth would seem to be that they neither know how to conduct themselves as a "loyal opposition" nor how to govern when in the majority. The question is , what is their goal if it is neither of those?

Just to be in power.

[siampolee]

The truth would seem to be that they neither know how to conduct themselves as a "loyal opposition" nor how to govern when in the majority. The question is , what is their goal if it is neither of those?

You are of course referring to the current puppet administration ?

[Skywalker69]

"part of the Bangkok elete"

ohhhhh that's so funny.. who the hell do you think most of these politicians are THEY ARE the Thailand elite. Silpa archa. shinawata etc etc.. political elite.

This government dropped the ball...they did not want to use the army effectively because the army would then look good in the eyes of the people.Stupid politics when people are dying and in misery. Not to mention the effect this will have on Thai exports and tax revenues.

Stupid selfish people in power that's what Thailand has.

Your comment is, spot on!! Thanks!

[Skywalker69]

The way some expates are diehard suporters of this govt. no matter how bad they look makes me wonder if we will soon be seeing farang red villages. Your undying support for your Issan sweethearts is admirable, but ..........

My wife is from Issan, she hate everything concerning T. and Y Shinawatra and the Red shirts and their movment.

[ResX]

About 15 years ago one of our major hydroelectric & flood control reservoirs was beaten by floods 4 times in 25 years. The owner missed the optimum intensity of flood that it should consider to deal with. One of the flood events that has beaten this reservoir dearly had the intensity of slightly over 3.0billion cubic meter and over the total duration of 14days (Average inflow =20million cubic meter per day) . The owner just prepared to deal with 2.5illion cubic meter prior to the flood season based on its normal procedure. This is the case of misjudging.

If the reservoirs are allowed to have almost zero storage reserve margins before marching through flood seasons, I don't think misjudging is the proper word.

Edited October 18, 2011 by ResX

[ralphlsasser]

"part of the Bangkok elete"

ohhhhh that's so funny.. who the hell do you think most of these politicians are THEY ARE the Thailand elite. Silpa archa. shinawata etc etc.. political elite.

This government dropped the ball...they did not want to use the army effectively because the army would then look good in the eyes of the people.Stupid politics when people are dying and in misery. Not to mention the effect this will have on Thai exports and tax revenues.

Stupid selfish people in power that's what Thailand has.

I totally agree with your last sentence. I might add, it seems to be getting worse. If that's possible.

[ralphlsasser]

We had floods when he was in office and he did nothing except try to get his picture taken at every chance. He can't get over the fact that he was voted out of office. He still wants to be a powerful force, but he's a nobody. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, spoiled, and part of the Bangkok elete. He should accept the fact he's a nobody and let the government do what they are elected to do. Something he never did.

Did you mean the Bangkok elite?

Are your friends the Shinawatras not part of the elite?

Is Abhisit not doing what he should be in his role as opposition leader?

When he was in power did the opposition (reds), led by that well known elite, Thaksin, allow him to do what he needed to do?

I think before posting you should just ask yourself a few serious questions.

Of course. The whole government are made up of the elites. That is a qualification to be an employee of the government. I'm simply commenting on Abhisit's continued rant about the government when he also did nothing. No, I'm not a farang red, just an outsider farang that has nothing but utter disrespect for the government.

[scotbeve]

Ok hadn't known this but how has he been helping? He made one visit to the command center that I've heard of and certainly this is a good PR opportunity to make any efforts public so why haven't we heard more about them?.

You posted before my edit so what about the fact that this admin is still in transition and his admin ran the country the previous 2 years?

JFYI I thought he was doing a decent job while he was in office, but I think at this point the timing of his rhetoric and criticisms is inappropriate to be saved for a post flood inquiry.

http://reliefweb.int/node/442133

http://reliefweb.int/node/281220

I think some of what is being said needs to be said now. The government need to get their act into order. They said last week that one person would be making the announcements, and the very next day someone else was making announcements. It's a complete joke.

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Warp,

Too true.... it's all so droll at times... :sleepy: :jerk: the dems STILL have a lot to answer for during the 2010 floods alone <deleted>!!!

[animatic]

Ok hadn't known this but how has he been helping? He made one visit to the command center that I've heard of and certainly this is a good PR opportunity to make any efforts public so why haven't we heard more about them?.

You posted before my edit so what about the fact that this admin is still in transition and his admin ran the country the previous 2 years?

JFYI I thought he was doing a decent job while he was in office, but I think at this point the timing of his rhetoric and criticisms is inappropriate to be saved for a post flood inquiry.

http://reliefweb.int/node/442133

http://reliefweb.int/node/281220

I think some of what is being said needs to be said now. The government need to get their act into order. They said last week that one person would be making the announcements, and the very next day someone else was making announcements. It's a complete joke.

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Warp,

Too true.... it's all so droll at times... :sleepy: :jerk: the dems STILL have a lot to answer for during the 2010 floods alone <deleted>!!!

Other than the fact they dealt with it faster and sooner,

and the current crew didn't benefit from that in observation

and asked them for advice a bit to late to be useful enough.

Yes there were floods last year the cumulative affect of 30 years of governmental malfeasance, incompetence, gross misappropriation of funds, and just plain stupidity on a world class scale.

But the Dems moved MUCH faster last year and the results were

MUCH less grievous than this year by far.

Edited October 19, 2011 by animatic

[scotbeve]

<<<<snip/copy/paste>>> scotbeve wrote:

Warp,

Too true.... it's all so droll at times... :sleepy: :jerk: the dems STILL have a lot to answer for during the 2010 floods alone &lt;deleted&gt;!!!

Animatic wrote:

Other than the fact they dealt with it faster and sooner,

and the current crew didn't benefit from that in observation

and asked them for advice a bit to late to be useful enough.

Yes there were floods last year the cumulative affect of 30 years of governmental malfeasance, incompetence, gross misappropriation of funds, and just plain stupidity on a world class scale.

But the Dems moved MUCH faster last year and the results were

MUCH less grievous than this year by far. snip/copy/paste>>>>>>>>

Ani,

They probably did move faster given the smaller scale.... But if graphed per capita and Metric tons of water, who would have seem faster??? Does anyone have a REALISTIC graph or chart or study such as this that can verified as the truth? More interest than blame game sir....

[WarpSpeed]

http://reliefweb.int/node/442133

http://reliefweb.int/node/281220

I think some of what is being said needs to be said now. The government need to get their act into order. They said last week that one person would be making the announcements, and the very next day someone else was making announcements. It's a complete joke.

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Warp,

Too true.... it's all so droll at times... :sleepy: :jerk: the dems STILL have a lot to answer for during the 2010 floods alone &lt;deleted&gt;!!!

Other than the fact they dealt with it faster and sooner,

and the current crew didn't benefit from that in observation

and asked them for advice a bit to late to be useful enough.

Yes there were floods last year the cumulative affect of 30 years of governmental malfeasance, incompetence, gross misappropriation of funds, and just plain stupidity on a world class scale.

But the Dems moved MUCH faster last year and the results were

MUCH less grievous than this year by far.

Different regions, magnitude, longer time in office on the part of the dems and a weather prediction of droughts not floods.. Hence apples and oranges... But having said that then, if they did such a bang up job what happened to post flood measures to avoid the same thing or in this case even worse flooding this year? And not having taken any action once they had plenty of empirical experience to call upon how is it now the current admins fault?

I find it quite ironic that if the job they did and were doing was so stellar how is it that they were defeated fairly in a democratic election?

Edited October 19, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[animatic]

'whybother' timestamp='1318926571' post='4773918'

http://reliefweb.int/node/442133

http://reliefweb.int/node/281220

I think some of what is being said needs to be said now. The government need to get their act into order. They said last week that one person would be making the announcements, and the very next day someone else was making announcements. It's a complete joke.

Reliefweb? Wow! Not exactly mainstream press is it? How hard did you have to search to find those snippets?

Well in a quick glance I didn't see anything in those articles that mentioned Abhisit's personal involvement beyond being a figure head, it stands to reason that some democrats would organize without the need for their fearless leader..

I'd expect something far more substantial if he's to differentiate himself from the crowd he is criticizing as they've done as much as that and even more IMO..

Warp,

Too true.... it's all so droll at times... :sleepy: :jerk: the dems STILL have a lot to answer for during the 2010 floods alone &lt;deleted&gt;!!!

Other than the fact they dealt with it faster and sooner,

and the current crew didn't benefit from that in observation

and asked them for advice a bit to late to be useful enough.

Yes there were floods last year the cumulative affect of 30 years of governmental malfeasance, incompetence, gross misappropriation of funds, and just plain stupidity on a world class scale.

But the Dems moved MUCH faster last year and the results were

MUCH less grievous than this year by far.

Different regions, magnitude, longer time in office on the part of the dems and a weather prediction of droughts not floods.. Hence apples and oranges... But having said that then, if they did such a bang up job what happened to post flood measures to avoid the same thing or in this case even worse flooding this year? And not having taken any action once they had plenty of empirical experience to call upon how is it now the current admins fault?

Very simple they are in charge and got on the stick way too late.

Secondly there are more of this current crew in office, 3 to 1, the last 10 years than the Dems, and made many more mistakes causing the roots of the problem.

And as you say yourself 'different regions'.

Of course what ever amount falls up country ....

it ALWAYS goes out Chao Praya through Bangkok.

I don't remember PTP proposing ONE bit of legislation to deal with flooding... for their whole of their term in Parliament as "loyal opposition" * Nor as PPP, and nothing from TRT comes to mind either.

( * which i use in the most ironic manner.)

Edited October 19, 2011 by animatic

[WarpSpeed]

Different regions, magnitude, longer time in office on the part of the dems and a weather prediction of droughts not floods.. Hence apples and oranges... But having said that then, if they did such a bang up job what happened to post flood measures to avoid the same thing or in this case even worse flooding this year? And not having taken any action once they had plenty of empirical experience to call upon how is it now the current admins fault?

Very simple they are in charge and got on the stick way too late.

Secondly there are more of this current crew in office, 3 to 1, the last 10 years than the Dems, and made many more mistakes causing the roots of the problem.

And as you say yourself 'different regions'.

Of course what ever amount falls up country ....

it ALWAYS goes out Chao Praya through Bangkok.

I don't remember PTP proposing ONE bit of legislation to deal with flooding...

for their whole of their term in Parliament as "loyal opposition" *

( * which i use in the most ironic manner.)

Doesn't matter where it ends up it matters where it comes through, if it's more unpopulated regions like it was last year for the most part compared to coming from the direction it has this year farm land versus populated regions makes a world of difference in everything from absorption to time to prepare and options available to fight it back and how many people need to be evacuated, etc.. Logistically much easier to organize and control.

[animatic]

Different regions, magnitude, longer time in office on the part of the dems and a weather prediction of droughts not floods.. Hence apples and oranges... But having said that then, if they did such a bang up job what happened to post flood measures to avoid the same thing or in this case even worse flooding this year? And not having taken any action once they had plenty of empirical experience to call upon how is it now the current admins fault?

Very simple they are in charge and got on the stick way too late.

Secondly there are more of this current crew in office, 3 to 1, the last 10 years than the Dems, and made many more mistakes causing the roots of the problem.

And as you say yourself 'different regions'.

Of course what ever amount falls up country ....

it ALWAYS goes out Chao Praya through Bangkok.

I don't remember PTP proposing ONE bit of legislation to deal with flooding...

for their whole of their term in Parliament as "loyal opposition" *

( * which i use in the most ironic manner.)

Doesn't matter where it ends up it matters where it comes through, if it's more unpopulated regions like it was last year for the most part compared to coming from the direction it has this year farm land versus populated regions makes a world of difference in everything from absorption to time to prepare and options available to fight it back and how many people need to be evacuated, etc.. Logistically much easier to organize and control.

The problem is it was managed at controlled levels earlier on last year, when it was still in farmland stages this year it wasn't even slightly controlled, until it suddenly was becoming front page news, THEN it became enough to swamp populated areas more.

Yes, there is more this year, but mostly because much of it was not run off earlier as it MUST be done. Too little too late when it was finally recognized as a serious problem by the government.

Edited October 19, 2011 by animatic

[WarpSpeed]

Different regions, magnitude, longer time in office on the part of the dems and a weather prediction of droughts not floods.. Hence apples and oranges... But having said that then, if they did such a bang up job what happened to post flood measures to avoid the same thing or in this case even worse flooding this year? And not having taken any action once they had plenty of empirical experience to call upon how is it now the current admins fault?

Very simple they are in charge and got on the stick way too late.

Secondly there are more of this current crew in office, 3 to 1, the last 10 years than the Dems, and made many more mistakes causing the roots of the problem.

And as you say yourself 'different regions'.

Of course what ever amount falls up country ....

it ALWAYS goes out Chao Praya through Bangkok.

I don't remember PTP proposing ONE bit of legislation to deal with flooding...

for their whole of their term in Parliament as "loyal opposition" *

( * which i use in the most ironic manner.)

Doesn't matter where it ends up it matters where it comes through, if it's more unpopulated regions like it was last year for the most part compared to coming from the direction it has this year farm land versus populated regions makes a world of difference in everything from absorption to time to prepare and options available to fight it back and how many people need to be evacuated, etc.. Logistically much easier to organize and control.

The problem is it was managed at controlled levels earlier on last year, when it was still in farmland stages this year it wasn't even slightly controlled, until it suddenly was becoming front page news, THEN it became enough to swamp populated areas more.

Yes, there is more this year, but mostly because much of it was not run off earlier as it MUST be done. Too little too late when it was finally recognized as a serious problem by the government.

Last year it came mostly from a predictable and obvious source of a Typhoon and not continual unpredictable rains like it did this year precluded by a prediction of droughts. Like I said before this is apples and oranges and still the question of WHY begs to be answered when the previous admin had so much empirical experience, did they not take steps post flood to prevent another such trauma?.

The answer is clear to me because it was not their constituency affected and now they're trying to use this event to paint the other team (pardon the pun) Red..

Edited October 19, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[animatic]

'WarpSpeed' timestamp='1319032843' post='4777250'

Different regions, magnitude, longer time in office on the part of the dems and a weather prediction of droughts not floods.. Hence apples and oranges... But having said that then, if they did such a bang up job what happened to post flood measures to avoid the same thing or in this case even worse flooding this year? And not having taken any action once they had plenty of empirical experience to call upon how is it now the current admins fault?

Very simple they are in charge and got on the stick way too late.

Secondly there are more of this current crew in office, 3 to 1, the last 10 years than the Dems, and made many more mistakes causing the roots of the problem.

And as you say yourself 'different regions'.

Of course what ever amount falls up country ....

it ALWAYS goes out Chao Praya through Bangkok.

I don't remember PTP proposing ONE bit of legislation to deal with flooding...

for their whole of their term in Parliament as "loyal opposition" *

( * which i use in the most ironic manner.)

Doesn't matter where it ends up it matters where it comes through, if it's more unpopulated regions like it was last year for the most part compared to coming from the direction it has this year farm land versus populated regions makes a world of difference in everything from absorption to time to prepare and options available to fight it back and how many people need to be evacuated, etc.. Logistically much easier to organize and control.

The problem is it was managed at controlled levels earlier on last year, when it was still in farmland stages this year it wasn't even slightly controlled, until it suddenly was becoming front page news, THEN it became enough to swamp populated areas more.

Yes, there is more this year, but mostly because much of it was not run off earlier as it MUST be done. Too little too late when it was finally recognized as a serious problem by the government.

Last year it came mostly from a predictable and obvious source of a Typhoon and not continual unpredictable rains like it did this year precluded by a prediction of droughts. Like I said before this is apples and oranges and still the question of WHY begs to be answered when the previous admin had so much empirical experience, did they not take steps post flood to prevent another such trauma?.

The answer is clear to me because it was not their constituency affected and now they're trying to use this event to paint the other team (pardon the pun) Red..

They had two predicted typhoons this year.

This is not the first time two have hit.

The rains were not nearly as unpredictable as you imagine, and once they were falling the amounts of water were not just predictable but calculable over the several regions and their exit paths are ages old. Those calculations were ignored till crisis time hit. Now it's play catchup.

This knee jerk defense of the government being too distracted to take serious decisions about this problem, in time to be effective, is getting tedious.

[whybother]

Last year it came mostly from a predictable and obvious source of a Typhoon and not continual unpredictable rains like it did this year precluded by a prediction of droughts. Like I said before this is apples and oranges and still the question of WHY begs to be answered when the previous admin had so much empirical experience, did they not take steps post flood to prevent another such trauma?.

The answer is clear to me because it was not their constituency affected and now they're trying to use this event to paint the other team (pardon the pun) Red..

What are you talking about?

This year the rains came from 3 typhoons. All coming across the Philipines, Vietnam and Cambodia. They were all predicted to hit Thailand at least a week in advance.

AND THEN ... it's taken 3 or more weeks for the water to come down from the north.

Last year, the damage was mostly caused by flash floods.

[WarpSpeed]

Can someone please tell me why the previous admin did nothing post flooding last year to alleviate this problem this year? The rest is all academic..

[whybother]

Can someone please tell me why the previous admin did nothing post flooding last year to alleviate this problem this year? The rest is all academic..

The previous administration did as much as the many administrations before it, and I predict, as much as the current administration will do.

[WarpSpeed]

Can someone please tell me why the previous admin did nothing post flooding last year to alleviate this problem this year? The rest is all academic..

The previous administration did as much as the many administrations before it, and I predict, as much as the current administration will do.

Well there's the key then isn't it? No matter which direction the wind is blowing and what direction the high waters come from it's all for naught in the current state of affairs and everything else is sadly a moot point..

[animatic]

Can someone please tell me why the previous admin did nothing post flooding last year to alleviate this problem this year? The rest is all academic..

The previous administration did as much as the many administrations before it, and I predict, as much as the current administration will do.

Well there's the key then isn't it? No matter which direction the wind is blowing and what direction the high waters come from it's all for naught in the current state of affairs and everything else is sadly a moot point..

Well economically this should have been done during high times

AKA Thaksin 1 when the world economy was good without question. Today... bubkis!, There is a global crisis and a major project like this was not in the cards with governments available funding. Soon to get worse with 25% of several markerts of export being killed as they tried myopically to save the rice pledging harvest scheme in the country side.

This is not a minor public works thing like drainage systems for a town, but something more akin to the PTP election plan of filling in everything SOUTH of Bangkok to prevent the SEA from flooding Bangkok....

Everyone said that was absurd, but the scale and funding needed for this, and the pay offs to many parties to allow their little fiefdoms to be 'land modified', and the half a generation time span needed to actually do this, is way way beyond the reach of Abhisit's 2.5 year time in office.

Now if the Japanese and other manufacturers want to chip in,

or start leaning hard on the governments here to FIX THINGS

to protect their ventures, this might be what gets the huge amount of cash flowing. This kind of project dwarfs by logarithmic measures the Trains project on the drawing board.

Edited October 19, 2011 by animatic