Captured soldier Shalit returns to Israel after hundreds of Palestinian prisoners are released

[Scott]

off-topic posts concerning whose link is better have been deleted. It's not about Obama, by the way.

[Ulysses G.]

To be totally honest I am completely bemused by some of the prisoners that Israel has decided to release.

It was not up to Israel. They had to negotiate the names with Hamas.

[GentlemanJim]

To be totally honest I am completely bemused by some of the prisoners that Israel has decided to release.

It was not up to Israel. They had to negotiate the names with Hamas.

Well that is what I am asking Ulysees. I cannot find anywhere where it says that Hamas dictated those who were to be released. Did Hamas name names or was it a case of "we want 2000", "no you can have 500" "make it 1200", "ok, done".

[Ulysses G.]

The article that I read yesterday said that Hamas asked for certain prisoners and Israel refused to release some of them, so they negotiated on more names and no I do not have a link as it was not Thai Visa reading.

[JemJem]

So, this kind of deal only helps terrorists think they can achieve their goal by such means.

As much as I am happy about Gilad's release, I am equally worried about possible future terror.

Jem

[Wallaby]

So, this kind of deal only helps terrorists think they can achieve their goal by such means.

As much as I am happy about Gilad's release, I am equally worried about possible future terror.

Jem

Well yes I have to agree. Would be different if the 1000 released were minor offenders and such but some of those released shouldn't be alive. Israel govt really has made a bad mistake agreeing to release some of them.

What does Israel plan to do every time one of their soldiers gets taken? I can just imagine the family of the next one arging that their son is worth more than Gilad etc etc.

I do think Israel has made a very bad mistake.

[Ulysses G.]

I do not agree with trading the prisoners, but this is not a new policy and it has not seemed to make a lot of difference in the past. Israel has always been surrounded by millions and millions of enemies and has thrived and survived, so second-guessing them seems pointless.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[geriatrickid]

I too was disturbed by the release of large numbers of unrepentant murderers. However, there is something endearing about the decision to do what it could to save a life. The people that the released arabs killed are dead and cannot be brought back (at least not until the rapture that follows Armageddon). The decision bolsters IDF morale and reassures the thousands of kids conscripted every year that Israel will do what it can to save them too.

I suppose one of the arguments against the release is that the murderers will kill again. Maybe. However, I think the individual Israelis that now face potential attacks will shoot first and ask questions later. In consideration of Shalit's treatment, I think most rational people will understand why.

[GentlemanJim]

Geriatrickid

The people that the released arabs killed are dead and cannot be brought back (at least not until the rapture that follows Armageddon).

What does that mean?

[Steely Dan]

Geriatrickid

The people that the released arabs killed are dead and cannot be brought back (at least not until the rapture that follows Armageddon).

What does that mean?

Wait until 2012, all will be revealed.

[maidu]

So, this kind of deal only helps terrorists think they can achieve their goal by such means.

As much as I am happy about Gilad's release, I am equally worried about possible future terror. Jem

I agree. This swap paints a message for Palestinians: Each Israeli captured will potentially yield a release of Palestinians from Israeli jails. If it's an Israeli soldier, it could yield over 1,000 releases. A female Israeli soldier might yield even more. Not a good message to send - particularly to the youth of Palestine who are told to celebrate each returned prisoner from Israel with a hero's welcome.

In a weird way, it's like the amnesty that Red Shirt leaders are campaigning for. The message there: Barricade downtown Bangkok for two months, attack a hospital, kill some Thai soldiers, then burn down some of its largest buildings - and you'll be a hero in the eyes of Jatuporn and other prominent Red Shirts.

[Ulysses G.]

As was said before. Israel has done this before. It is not easy for the Hamas terrorists to capture a live soldier, so it seems that the people of Israel are willing to trade in the few cases that is becomes neccesary.

[Jingthing]

Negotiate DIRECTLY with Israel (Hamas), you get a great deal.

Avoid negotiating DIRECTLY with Israel by playing games at the UN (Abbas), get shafted.

Next ...

Edited October 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

To be totally honest I am completely bemused by some of the prisoners that Israel has decided to release.

It was not up to Israel. They had to negotiate the names with Hamas.

Well that is what I am asking Ulysees. I cannot find anywhere where it says that Hamas dictated those who were to be released. Did Hamas name names or was it a case of "we want 2000", "no you can have 500" "make it 1200", "ok, done".

Abu Abadia, a spokesperson for the military wing of Hamas, told Israeli media that under the terms of the deal Israel will release 1,000 Palestinian prisoners. This number includes 15 high security inmates said to have been directly involved in terror attacks, and 200 who will not be permitted to return to the West Bank.

It appears that names were used specifically as there were a few high profile prisoners who were not released. It appears that a lot of the negotiation had to do with pitting Fatah/PLO against Hamas to add difficulty to the quest for statehood. Israel knew what they were doing and I am certain, had a political motive for the particular names for whom they bargained.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/11/gilad-shalit-prisoner-swap-deal?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

[Jingthing]

Statehood is very doable. All the Palestinians have to do, which of course they won't do, and has nothing to do with the UN --

1. Unify under one government

2. Denounce terror tactics

3. Formally recognize the existence of Israel as a Jewish state and ALSO withdraw the demand for unconditional right of return for Palestinians into the sovereign land of Israel

4. Accept that Israel is going to need specific security guarantees but also that Israel will give up land/settlements as they have done before for a real chance at peace

5. Start to look at maps/borders and get ready for serious talks

6. Prepare for a big party!

If the Palestinians did all that, even if you believe Israel doesn't want peace and doesn't want the Palestinians to ever have a state, do you seriously believe the Palestinians could be denied ... IF ... they did all that?

Edited October 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[GentlemanJim]

Statehood is very doable. All the Palestinians have to do, which of course they won't do, and has nothing to do with the UN --

1. Unify under one government

2. Denounce terror tactics

3. Formally recognize the existence of Israel as a Jewish state

4. Accept that Israel is going to need specific security guarantees but also that Israel will give up land/settlements as they have done before for a real chance at peace

5. Start to look at maps/borders and get ready for serious talks

If the Palestinians did all that, even if you believe Israel doesn't want peace and doesn't want the Palestinians to ever have a state, do you seriously believe the Palestinians could be denied ... IF ... they did all that?

Jingthing

It is all chicken and egg. What you have listed is perfectly reasonable but it is one way. Talks will never start whilst Israel continues to build illegal settlements. No need to scrutinize maps. The 1967 borders would do, and hey presto we may get somewhere.

[Scott]

It's not only chicken and egg...it's veering off-topic. Check the OP for a clue and stay on the topic.

[Wallaby]

Seems it may not be the case that Israel cares so much about it's soldiers. Reports this deal could have been done years ago. Just the usual politics at play.

There is also another sad and disturbing dimension to the negotiations with Hamas for Shalit's release: The deal could have been struck more than four years ago. The price demanded by Hamas at that time was very similar to what was eventually paid. The reason the deal was not consummated then lies in ego wars, personal-image considerations and popularity ratings of the prime ministers who dealt with the issue.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-slippery-slope-of-prisoner-swaps-1.390949

[Jingthing]

In any case, very few countries (none other than Israel perhaps?) including my own would have EVER considered such a lopsided deal. Shalit should consider himself very lucky indeed.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Seems it may not be the case that Israel cares so much about it's soldiers. Reports this deal could have been done years ago. Just the usual politics at play.

If one reads the rest of the article, it is obvious that Israel does care very much about its soldiers, but that many leaders were resistant to such a lopsided deal and who can blame them?

[Pakboong]

In any case, very few countries (none other than Israel perhaps?) including my own would have EVER considered such a lopsided deal. Shalit should consider himself very lucky indeed.

You are probably correct. There have been several proposals to include one that offered Shalit for no Palestinians, only removal of the blockade which Israel refused.

[maidu]

Why were dozens of released Palestinian prisoners not allowed to return to the P territories? Were they hardened criminals that not even their brethren wanted to accept back? Why would another country take them in? Lots of shady characters in that part of the dunes.

[koheesti]

Why were dozens of released Palestinian prisoners not allowed to return to the P territories? Were they hardened criminals that not even their brethren wanted to accept back? Why would another country take them in? Lots of shady characters in that part of the dunes.

It's similar to when prisoners get released from GITMO. Many are either jailed back home or their home country won't accept them. Has tomake you wonder just how innocent they really are. "Oh, we will trade for some fellow countrymen - although we won't let them return home!"

[GentlemanJim]

Why were dozens of released Palestinian prisoners not allowed to return to the P territories? Were they hardened criminals that not even their brethren wanted to accept back? Why would another country take them in? Lots of shady characters in that part of the dunes.

It's similar to when prisoners get released from GITMO. Many are either jailed back home or their home country won't accept them. Has tomake you wonder just how innocent they really are. "Oh, we will trade for some fellow countrymen - although we won't let them return home!"

I don't want to sound cynical but it could be a clever way for Hamas of getting 'skilled' murderers out of Palastine. If they were sent back to Palestine, there is no way they would ever get out cross border without going under some tunnel in to Egypt, even then travel would be difficult. Maybe they are now out of the confines and limited travel of Palestine and are now free to do more Hamas dirty work. I sure hope not.

[Pakboong]

Statehood is very doable. All the Palestinians have to do, which of course they won't do, and has nothing to do with the UN --

1. Unify under one government

2. Denounce terror tactics

3. Formally recognize the existence of Israel as a Jewish state and ALSO withdraw the demand for unconditional right of return for Palestinians into the sovereign land of Israel

4. Accept that Israel is going to need specific security guarantees but also that Israel will give up land/settlements as they have done before for a real chance at peace

5. Start to look at maps/borders and get ready for serious talks

6. Prepare for a big party!

If the Palestinians did all that, even if you believe Israel doesn't want peace and doesn't want the Palestinians to ever have a state, do you seriously believe the Palestinians could be denied ... IF ... they did all that?

Not an original thought. Uri Avnery, an Isreli Jew, said it in an interview.

"The same journalists asked me if Binyamin Netanyahu had not been disturbed by the fact that the swap was bound to strengthen Hamas and deal a grievous blow to Mahmoud Abbas. They were flabbergasted by my answer: that this was one of its main purposes, if not the main one."

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/gilad-shalit-the-real-story/

Edited October 21, 2011 by Pakboong

[Ulysses G.]

The writer of the far-left blog linked to in the above post is a complete kook. He excuses terrorists and want to be terrorists and terrorists who tried to kill someone, but - due to incompetence - their bomb did not explode.

Some of these prisoners have assisted suicide bombers in killing a lot of people. Some have committed really atrocious acts – like the pretty young Palestinian woman who used the internet to lure a love-sick Israeli boy of 15 into a trap, where he was riddled with bullets. But others were sentenced to life for belonging to an “illegal organization” and possessing arms, or for throwing an ineffectual home made bomb at a bus hurting nobody.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

You have been asked to stay on-topic. You have not.

//Closed//