Thai Govt Worried About Locals Destroying Flood Barriers

[SICHONSTEVE]

It went something along the lines of............. "Khun King Canute" I think!!!!:jap:.

You obviously don't understand the point of the story of King Canute.

Canute is famous for the tale of the incoming tide. According to legend, Canute’s courtiers (red shirts and Northern Thai's) flattered him into believing that his word was so powerful that even the tide would recede at his command. Canute is said to have taken this compliment literally and had his throne placed by the shore (he hasn't received it yet so this is slightly inaccurate) and vainly attempted to command the waves to recede until he almost drowned (the insertion of 'almost' is the most disappointing bit).

WHO doesn't understand the story???????:jap:.

[robblok]

How does any of that not make sense? Put simply they've flooded the provinces to save Bangkok. It would piss me off if I lived up there

The provinces were flooded well before the water got to Bangkok.

True but restricting its flow so BKK would not get it was / is happening.

[jehricaholic]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

The water does not belong to Bangkok and should not be allowed to flood the capital, which will cause an economic disaster for the whole country.

Bangkok has a flood protection to protect its citizens and values from being flooded, so why should Bangkok now be flooded, because other provinces didn´t do anything preventive, to protect their own homes from being flooded?

This entire post is moronic, but the water not belonging to Bangkok LOL. Bangkok is built on a flood plain, meaning that Buddah wants water from the north to travel through Bangkok to the sea so that the water can be re-used for future weather purposes (water cycle). Some people need an intelligence check up before making comment.

[SICHONSTEVE]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

someones obsessed with a former PM

No!!! Simply giving the reason as to why a much needed "state of emergency" hasn't been decreed".

[MILT]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

Absolutely spot on. I believe that whatever happens after this event of flooding and cleaning up the mess that the same old diatribe of rhetoric will start up again and the maneuvering to bring her brother home will. I can imagine that before the flooding when Thaskin asked her sister to run, I can just hear him say No worry's sis it will be a walk in the park. Why wouldn't they invoke SOE if everything was up and up? Because of all of their shadow walking and deviant plans might be thwarted. Thaskin knows deep down what a sneaky bastard he is and why not project that onto the military.

[chrisinth]

You really cant blame people.

There is no public plan in place & announcements from the govt have in the main been totally useless.

If no-one has any confidence that these dykes are going to do any good - why not break them down to solve local flooding?

That is the whole point, a dyke will make flooding somewhere else worse. If they are not there the water will rush down finds the easiest path and go. Dykes are only good if you give the water an alternate route to travel. Here in the village we had dykes (id not prove useful in the end as we are flooded water came up through the drains) but these dykes deflected the flow of water not block it.

Blocking it and letting someone else flood is just wrong. Diverting it around an area and having a clear plan is better. But we all know there are no plans here in Thailand and the rich want to be protected at cost of the poor.

Today an other 5 cm extra in my home. I expect the water to rise for days on end.

The rise will be slower once the water has come. Initially it will go fast and then slow down. Sandbags wont help unless the water can go somewhere.

Your points just about sum it up! The idea that man will out-think nature without pre-planning is total b*llocks. Regardless of which party is in power, if this sort of situation becomes political and the decisions are made by unqualified political figures, without handing over the responsibility to qualified engineers, then this sort of disaster is bound to happen. Go with the flow works for me!

As an aside, I live up here in Phitsanulok and for the last 11 weeks or so we have had the river Nan topped up; never seen it like this for the last 12 years I have been here. Over the last two weeks (about the same time as the Auythai barriers broke, we have seen the water level of the river drop by a minimum of 5 metres; i would estimate that it has another 2 metres to go before it reaches the normal level for this time of year. And yes, that is 5 metres, not centimetres!

I have to ask myself how come the water has disapated so rapidly? Is it that the powers that be have closed the sluice gates further upstream, or is it that the manmade barriers have been removed to allow the waters to run their natural course? I understand the need to protect the industrial estates, but to keep peoples feet dry in the capital while the rest of the coutry suffer the consiquences of these actions? Hope the water isn't with you for the period it has been with us! Keep safe one and all.

[farang000999]

Is there any evidence that flooding Bangkok will give relief to the other regions?

Is there any evidence that a SOE will help matters? Since when do SOE in Thailand increase productivity?

If you are posting on the internet it can't be that miserable Rob.

[KarenBravo]

It went something along the lines of............. "Khun King Canute" I think!!!!:jap:.

You obviously don't understand the point of the story of King Canute.

Canute is famous for the tale of the incoming tide. According to legend, Canute's courtiers (red shirts and Northern Thai's) flattered him into believing that his word was so powerful that even the tide would recede at his command. Canute is said to have taken this compliment literally and had his throne placed by the shore (he hasn't received it yet so this is slightly inaccurate) and vainly attempted to command the waves to recede until he almost drowned (the insertion of 'almost' is the most disappointing bit).

WHO doesn't understand the story???????:jap:.

Yes, I thought so, you don't understand the point.

[CMFarang]

CHECK THIS OUT !

FLOODING 101 for the Amateur.

This is a huge file ,but shows some of the water that is passing and some of the different types of dikes .

About 3/4 of the way down the Page , It does take some time to Load, there are some new ideas on Flood Control Devices. Very Interesting.

http://www.manitobap...itoba_Flood.htm

FLOOD CONTROL

It took me a few days to find this LINK , Well Worth the Time to L@@K

You may even want to pass this onto those that are in-charge of the ? Dikes ?? Dykes ? ** Barriers **

Loved the way we here in Chiang Mai Sand Bagged the River Road to protect the prestigious homes along it , only to Flood out a Hospital, back in 2005.

This years flood here was an avoid and ignore scenario for me, I guess I am learning.. hehehe

[richard_smith237]

Someone somewhere within the government must have run a cost analysis.

If more flood gates are opened up, how will it financially impact the country.

I am quite sure that IF the flood gates were to be opened as some suggest the cost to the country will be ten fold what it would be if the flooding remains controlled.

I suspect the main concern is whether or not the current barriers can hold sufficiently and not endure a cataclysmic failure. IF the capital were to become flooded the financial impact for the rest of the nation would / could be felt for years.

It does seem highly unfair that areas outside of the capital are taking the hit so that 'more important' areas are protected. However, anyone in control would have to make the same decisions when looking at the bigger picture.

IMO: The only issue in question here is the poor flow of accurate information to the public.

[MILT]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

Fact: nobody has heard much of Tea S these last days... Would it be that the messiah has - for a change - no magic remedy to propose to "his" people?

The current crisis is not in his expertise period. Mega projects (Not flood preventing mind you) are. Populist policies (no flood management) would be very popular policy.

Edited October 24, 2011 by MILT

[chrisinth]

Is there any evidence that flooding Bangkok will give relief to the other regions?

Is there any evidence that a SOE will help matters? Since when do SOE in Thailand increase productivity?

If you are posting on the internet it can't be that miserable Rob.

I think you are missing the point that Rob is making; it is because of the protection systems of Bkk that has caused the water buildup in the first place. Bkk is about to receive the balance from those actions. This year is reportedly the worst for 50 years; preventions that have worked in the past can't cope with the rainfall of this year. Matter of physics.

[farang000999]

Hello Richard, If Bangkok is flooded, how many meters are we are talking about here? I mean, you just said, "Thailand will be effected for years"... that is a very long time. Can you give me some more details about what you believe will happen and resulting effects? How long will the stock market be closed? I am just walking into this conversation. Thank You.

Edited October 24, 2011 by farang000999

[farang000999]

Is there any evidence that flooding Bangkok will give relief to the other regions?

Is there any evidence that a SOE will help matters? Since when do SOE in Thailand increase productivity?

If you are posting on the internet it can't be that miserable Rob.

I think you are missing the point that Rob is making; it is because of the protection systems of Bkk that has caused the water buildup in the first place. Bkk is about to receive the balance from those actions. This year is reportedly the worst for 50 years; preventions that have worked in the past can't cope with the rainfall of this year. Matter of physics.

I understand that the two dams are being blamed for the severity of these problems but is there any evidence that allowing Bangkok to be flooded today is going to improve the situation for other provinces by any large margin? Obviously we cannot go back in time and re-administrate those two dams.

Edited October 24, 2011 by farang000999

[whybother]

Your points just about sum it up! The idea that man will out-think nature without pre-planning is total b*llocks. Regardless of which party is in power, if this sort of situation becomes political and the decisions are made by unqualified political figures, without handing over the responsibility to qualified engineers, then this sort of disaster is bound to happen. Go with the flow works for me!

As an aside, I live up here in Phitsanulok and for the last 11 weeks or so we have had the river Nan topped up; never seen it like this for the last 12 years I have been here. Over the last two weeks (about the same time as the Auythai barriers broke, we have seen the water level of the river drop by a minimum of 5 metres; i would estimate that it has another 2 metres to go before it reaches the normal level for this time of year. And yes, that is 5 metres, not centimetres!

I have to ask myself how come the water has disapated so rapidly? Is it that the powers that be have closed the sluice gates further upstream, or is it that the manmade barriers have been removed to allow the waters to run their natural course? I understand the need to protect the industrial estates, but to keep peoples feet dry in the capital while the rest of the coutry suffer the consiquences of these actions? Hope the water isn't with you for the period it has been with us! Keep safe one and all.

Is Sirikit dam upstream from Phitsanulok? They've been opening and closing the sluice gates there over the last couple of months.

[chrisinth]

Is there any evidence that flooding Bangkok will give relief to the other regions?

Is there any evidence that a SOE will help matters? Since when do SOE in Thailand increase productivity?

If you are posting on the internet it can't be that miserable Rob.

I think you are missing the point that Rob is making; it is because of the protection systems of Bkk that has caused the water buildup in the first place. Bkk is about to receive the balance from those actions. This year is reportedly the worst for 50 years; preventions that have worked in the past can't cope with the rainfall of this year. Matter of physics.

I understand that the two dams are being blamed for the severity of these problems but is there any evidence that allowing Bangkok to be flooded today is going to improve the situation for other provinces by any large margin? Obviously we cannot go back in time and re-administrate those two dams.

The problem as I see it (unqualified as it is) is the longer we restrict the natural course of the waters the longer the problem will last. It is not just about keeping your feet dry, but the pressure buildup on the prevention walls. This is the reason that the flood gates were to be opened; to maximize the passage of the builtup waters and ease the pressures. Close your gates and wait for another dyke/levey/prevention wall to fail and see what the situation is then. Get your wellies on and live with it for a couple of weeks! Nearly the end of the rainy season anyway.

[farang000999]

so that water can't make it around the barriers and to the sea w/o going through BKK?

[chrisinth]

Your points just about sum it up! The idea that man will out-think nature without pre-planning is total b*llocks. Regardless of which party is in power, if this sort of situation becomes political and the decisions are made by unqualified political figures, without handing over the responsibility to qualified engineers, then this sort of disaster is bound to happen. Go with the flow works for me!

As an aside, I live up here in Phitsanulok and for the last 11 weeks or so we have had the river Nan topped up; never seen it like this for the last 12 years I have been here. Over the last two weeks (about the same time as the Auythai barriers broke, we have seen the water level of the river drop by a minimum of 5 metres; i would estimate that it has another 2 metres to go before it reaches the normal level for this time of year. And yes, that is 5 metres, not centimetres!

I have to ask myself how come the water has disapated so rapidly? Is it that the powers that be have closed the sluice gates further upstream, or is it that the manmade barriers have been removed to allow the waters to run their natural course? I understand the need to protect the industrial estates, but to keep peoples feet dry in the capital while the rest of the coutry suffer the consiquences of these actions? Hope the water isn't with you for the period it has been with us! Keep safe one and all.

Is Sirikit dam upstream from Phitsanulok? They've been opening and closing the sluice gates there over the last couple of months.

Yep, Sirikit is upstream and they have been controlling the water levels in the reservoir through the sluices. All the dams up here are maxed out with the water levels, and they all need to relieve the pressure of the water. Very ironic as there will be water shortages in another 4 months for the farmers again!

[chrisinth]

so that water can't make it around the barriers and to the sea w/o going through BKK?

Bkk is built on the delta, natural course for the water

[richard_smith237]

Hello Richard, If Bangkok is flooded, how many meters are we are talking about here? I mean, you just said, "Thailand will be effected for years"... that is a very long time. Can you give me some more details about what you believe will happen and resulting effects? How long will the stock market be closed? I am just walking into this conversation. Thank You.

I've been viewing the this thread for a while in the hope that it doesn't become a pissing match... its a testament to the main contributors is hasn't so far.

That said, I don't have a clue as to the extent to which Bangkok would be flooded should the barriers be removed. I think the capital can easily handle up to 30cm (By that I mean 30cm above Sukhumvit Road level - Just my guess and nothing more).

Anymore than 30cm and I assume the capital will grind to a halt, it is IF or once that happens the country faces a greater magnitude of financial catastrophe than it is currently presented with. The knock on effect and recovery cannot be estimated without the correct information at hand.

As with any other poster on this thread, I can only offer my opinions, I have no proof, I can't run a cost analysis without the correct information.

I have to assume the government has run a cost analysis, I can't imagine even the worst government not doing this.

I can't imagine any government in Thailand simply protecting the homes of the rich (as some posters have suggested), there has to be a bigger picture, we as the general public do not have access to this.

IF the government were to spell out the financial implications of opening up the barriers perhaps the rest of the country could be more sympathetic or at least to some extent comprehend the huge decisions being made.

Edited October 24, 2011 by richard_smith237

[rogerdee123]

I agree with you there, I dont want to flood BKK if it has no benefits at all.

But blocking up water and not giving it an viable alternative route is just as stupid. In the end something will breach.(by nature).

They should think of sacrificing parts of it for the greater good. But only after careful checking of elevation and exit route for water.

Just flooding a part of BKK and creating an other stagnant pool is not a good idea. But a stream that drains water would be a good idea. I admit i don't know if its possible but its something that has to be thought about.

I must have missed the news. When was the Chao Phraya blocked?

Its not.. but have you seen what is comming ? is a wide front of water much wider then the Chao Phraya. It needs to be drained too. I am really far from the Chao Phraya. Just look at those satellite images. Bangkok is blocking it, question is till what extent and as i said countless times i would not want it to flood if there was no benefit and only created another stagnate pool of water. Nice flowing water up to 30 cm would be nice. (if it helped speed up the situation by a few weeks)

Hi Robblok. We know you've got no bad intentions or revenge towards Bangkok.

The BMA has opened the gates to the maximum amount that is capable of "flowing through" meaning pumped out because most areas of Bangkok are in a bowl-shaped depression (due to the short-sighted pumping out of the underground water for years and decades). So the slope only goes down into the depression. It doesn't slope nicely towards the sea. The BMA has correctly not opened the gates 100% despite being "ordered" or "asked" or whatever, because they know better. There is so much water in the flood that "filling up the bowl" (that will be slow and difficult to empty) that is Bangkok won't reduce your misery by any noticeable effect ... but it would put some millions of people into the same kind of misery you are suffering from now.

The Chaopraya is the natural way for the flood water to drain. Now the Chaopraya is flooding Bangkok ... "naturally" one might say. Bangkok won't escape the flood disaster in any case. Whichever parts they can manage to keep dry (and it may end up being nothing including the "bowl") will reduce the misery and suffering.

I know you don't think like this ..... but if it's any consolation, your place will probably be dry before many parts of Bangkok will be.

Anyway we know you are in a difficult spot so take care.

[farang000999]

take a picture of outside your window and post it here please robbo. where are you at?

[tragickingdom]

OMG are they serious, even suhumvit road and silom will be flooded for a month! that's hard to beleive!

Hmm, is the suffering of poor bastards in 1.500 -5000 baht houses less of importance than that of the rich and the business community. The problem of Bangkok and that of many Asian cities is after all that the rich simply never cared. They confiscated the land next to the rivers because it was considered prime property. Thanks to the construction on the land that historically always flooded in the rainy season, people in Ayutthaya are punished ever year when their land or their rented land is flooded to save Bangkok.

It might be time to hire people who really know something about water management. Till now nay ad hoc decisions were made by hi rakes that had good intentions but no clue about what the effects were. For the last 60 years amateurs have managed Thailand's natural resources and looming problems. We all know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[serenitynow]

A State of Emergency would not have been required to stop people from destroying the wall.

A simple, police intervention would have done the trick to stop it.

Not having the SOE is no excuse.

One might rightly ask: where were the police when this was taking place?

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

The police are a defacto wing of the PTP, and like the PTP, they don't do anything that doesn't serve themselves or PTP.

[robblok]

I agree with you there, I dont want to flood BKK if it has no benefits at all.

But blocking up water and not giving it an viable alternative route is just as stupid. In the end something will breach.(by nature).

They should think of sacrificing parts of it for the greater good. But only after careful checking of elevation and exit route for water.

Just flooding a part of BKK and creating an other stagnant pool is not a good idea. But a stream that drains water would be a good idea. I admit i don't know if its possible but its something that has to be thought about.

I must have missed the news. When was the Chao Phraya blocked?

Its not.. but have you seen what is comming ? is a wide front of water much wider then the Chao Phraya. It needs to be drained too. I am really far from the Chao Phraya. Just look at those satellite images. Bangkok is blocking it, question is till what extent and as i said countless times i would not want it to flood if there was no benefit and only created another stagnate pool of water. Nice flowing water up to 30 cm would be nice. (if it helped speed up the situation by a few weeks)

Hi Robblok. We know you've got no bad intentions or revenge towards Bangkok.

The BMA has opened the gates to the maximum amount that is capable of "flowing through" meaning pumped out because most areas of Bangkok are in a bowl-shaped depression (due to the short-sighted pumping out of the underground water for years and decades). So the slope only goes down into the depression. It doesn't slope nicely towards the sea. The BMA has correctly not opened the gates 100% despite being "ordered" or "asked" or whatever, because they know better. There is so much water in the flood that "filling up the bowl" (that will be slow and difficult to empty) that is Bangkok won't reduce your misery by any noticeable effect ... but it would put some millions of people into the same kind of misery you are suffering from now.

The Chaopraya is the natural way for the flood water to drain. Now the Chaopraya is flooding Bangkok ... "naturally" one might say. Bangkok won't escape the flood disaster in any case. Whichever parts they can manage to keep dry (and it may end up being nothing including the "bowl") will reduce the misery and suffering.

I know you don't think like this ..... but if it's any consolation, your place will probably be dry before many parts of Bangkok will be.

Anyway we know you are in a difficult spot so take care.

Hi, i am already accepting the situation here. Its rising by 3-5 cm a day. Not as fast as it started. The main concerns now are the waterpump (once that shorts out i have to leave) an my motorbike (brand new cbr 250R) Also the washing machine. But for staying here the water pump is the main important thing. I think it can survive an other 5 days of increasing waters.

I dont wish BKK any bad things and but if it would help then yes flooding it (controlled) would be a good idea. But if its a bowl as you say then it wont help.

I admitted already that I dont know and im sure you don't know either for a fact. Now its just about surviving this. I think it might last long.

[thaicbr]

OMG are they serious, even suhumvit road and silom will be flooded for a month! that's hard to beleive!

Hmm, is the suffering of poor bastards in 1.500 -5000 baht houses less of importance than that of the rich and the business community. The problem of Bangkok and that of many Asian cities is after all that the rich simply never cared. They confiscated the land next to the rivers because it was considered prime property. Thanks to the construction on the land that historically always flooded in the rainy season, people in Ayutthaya are punished ever year when their land or their rented land is flooded to save Bangkok.

It might be time to hire people who really know something about water management. Till now nay ad hoc decisions were made by hi rakes that had good intentions but no clue about what the effects were. For the last 60 years amateurs have managed Thailand's natural resources and looming problems. We all know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In a word YES (about the business part anyway) Bkk is the capital city of Thailand with 10 million people living and working. It would be important for any country to try and keep it's business sector working. (though normally that would be the factories as well)

I do agree with you about having a proper flood plan and trying to find ways to ensure it does not happen in againthe long term.

Edited October 24, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[serenitynow]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

Fact: nobody has heard much of Tea S these last days... Would it be that the messiah has - for a change - no magic remedy to propose to "his" people?

Oh believe me, he'll have a remedy to propose, when it's over. Think "MEGAPROJECT".

[letitbe]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

i just wish the whole shinawati clan would fall into a huge hole in ground and go to hell where they belong for what they have are and will inflict on people of Thailand

[hanuman1]

Hello Richard, If Bangkok is flooded, how many meters are we are talking about here? I mean, you just said, "Thailand will be effected for years"... that is a very long time. Can you give me some more details about what you believe will happen and resulting effects? How long will the stock market be closed? I am just walking into this conversation. Thank You.

I've been viewing the this thread for a while in the hope that it doesn't become a pissing match... its a testament to the main contributors is hasn't so far.

That said, I don't have a clue as to the extent to which Bangkok would be flooded should the barriers be removed. I think the capital can easily handle up to 30cm (By that I mean 30cm above Sukhumvit Road level - Just my guess and nothing more).

Anymore than 30cm and I assume the capital will grind to a halt, it is IF or once that happens the country faces a greater magnitude of financial catastrophe than it is currently presented with. The knock on effect and recovery cannot be estimated without the correct information at hand.

As with any other poster on this thread, I can only offer my opinions, I have no proof, I can't run a cost analysis without the correct information.

I have to assume the government has run a cost analysis, I can't imagine even the worst government not doing this.

I can't imagine any government in Thailand simply protecting the homes of the rich (as some posters have suggested), there has to be a bigger picture, we as the general public do not have access to this.

IF the government were to spell out the financial implications of opening up the barriers perhaps the rest of the country could be more sympathetic or at least to some extent comprehend the huge decisions being made.

I've been viewing the this thread for a while in the hope that it doesn't become a pissing match... its a testament to the main contributors is hasn't so far.

You jinxed it!

Edited October 24, 2011 by hanuman1

[sylver]

I told someone over a week ago that it would not surprise me in the least of people outside of the protected areas of BKK finally get fed up with them being constantly flooded and losing everything, while precious BKK is kept safe and dry, and do something about it, like tearing down flood walls and dykes.

I wish no bad luck on anyone, and it is the poor who live in BKK who would suffer the most from BKK flooding. But maybe, just maybe, if the BKK elite and snobs finally get an idea of what so many other Thai have to deal with on a nearly yearly basis, then something will finally be done to take the necessary steps to correct this situation.

Let's face it, the government, and not just this one, but just about any of them, really don't have a clue as to what to do. Governments for the past 20 years have ignored the warnings from the experts and now it's coming back to haunt them. And in reality, the Army is in no better position to do anything other than restrict movement and protect what's already been put into place.

Until the real experts are brought in - and Thailand has them - and then actually LISTENED TO, and their advice followed, things are not going to change. More than one has basically said, "Open the gates, take down the temporary barriers and Let The Water Flow!" Yes, it will flood BKK for a while, but it will be much less than what it will be if they continue to try and block/divert it, and it will be over with for everyone much quicker.

I've heard people say in the "other" paper things such as: "I don't care about what happens in the provinces, Bangkok must be saved at all costs! Bangkok IS Thailand!". These people really need to come down from their penthouse, or out of their mansion, and get a look at the real world. They fail to realize that without the provinces, without the food and work force that comes from those provinces, Bangkok could not survive. Bangkok is Bangkok, it is NOT Thailand.

Dear 1voice

I think I know you from "that other newspaper" and I recall amny very sensible posts there from your side.

This is why I am very surprised to read posts like this from you.

I am all on your side in the analysis of more than the current government making heaps of mistakes (adding to corruptiom, neglecting laws of nature and physics, "mai pen rai" etc), that were leading up to this point.

And NO, Bangkok is not Thailand.

But if I am not mistaken, 25% of the Thai population work here, 40% of the money in all of Thailand is accumulated here (industry, business).

I really have a problem seein, what a capitol, submerged in 1,5 meter of stinking contaminated water for 4 to 6 weeks, will actually gain for Thailand?!

If Bangkok comes to a standstill, it is "back to the stoneage" for Thailand. It will hurt EVERYBODY. The people who are suffering now, will suffer even more, because cleaning up a mess in Ayutthaya may take weeks...imagine devastation on a scale like that in Bangkok.

I am all for "Bangkok has to take one for the team", but tearing down floodwalls and allowing water to freely flow into the city? Submerging it for days or weeks? No way, that should be allowed. t would be a disaster of EPIC proportions and no SOE or Royal decree or whatever would help here.

I feel for eveyone, having lost homes or jobs and I think I have not even the slightest idea, how bad it is "out there"...but adding another few millions to that suffering? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me!

Mostly because you have the wrong picture.

I live in Chiang Mai, near the river, so my place was flooded with 1.5 m of water at most (my area is below street level and below river level - worst case scenario). It took 4 days for the water to disappear completely (the top meter of water disappeared by flowing, the rest mostly went into the ground).

Why only 4 days? simple: no dikes were built just below me, so water just flowed. It came in and it went out. Damage: computer, fridge, car and motorbike (All of which would have been prevented with a 1 day advance warning).

Some reflexions:

1. 4-6 weeks for the water to evacuate. This is a misrepresentation of the situation: if the water flows, each individual area would be flooded for 4 days at most, so we are not talking about "Bangkok under water for 4-6 weeks", we are talking about each area having to deal with a couple days of flooding. More for some areas, less for others. Concentrating the pumps to the non flowing areas would render

2. Depth: Most areas would suffer from a few cm of water, not 1.5 m. The main reason why the water is high above Bangkok is that it was prevented from flowing, forcing the water to accumulate. If it weren't for those stupid flood barriers the whole situation would have been over about a week ago.

Either way, allowing the water to flow through Bangkok would spread it on a much larger surface, meaning the depth of the water would be much lower. Probably knee deep at worst.

The government is worried about locals destroying the flood barriers, They should be worried about having those stupid flood barriers in the first place.

And for all the idiots clamoring for a state of emergency... Are you really that keen to have your freedoms removed? What would a state of emergency do that can't be done right now?