Pheu Thai And Red Shirts Do Nothing To Help Their Own

[Moruya]

I haven't seen this on here anywhere but a Thai colleague assures me that Jatuporn had his red shirt ripped from him and burned and was accused of having switched allegiance to the PTP in one of the flood-stricken provinces.

Thank you for sharing.

Could you please ask if he has any additional information?

I hope that is true

I have been sent 2 articles in Thai:

http://www.sritrangn...ws.php?nid=1937

http://www.thaiday.c...D=9540000138380

Google translate is hilarious

A. Red Pong Iawa! "Toad Tu - the Glass" parade up the red shirts to support its fight against its whim. PAO President's chair. Phayao ideological thrust wrinkle free shirts. Before gathering in front of burning red. Pull up a permanent And will not tamper with them to Thailand. The process. I think. The next<br style="font: x-small/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> <br style="font: x-small/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> report as at 30 October, the rice market and rice, T., A. Pong, Phayao, said the federation and the formation of glass Jatuporn Prom Pikulthong UDD leaders. Pick up a campaign for the Company's Management personnel who supplied Mr. President, Administration. District No. 1 candidate for a red-shirt group called Art District has about 300 people led by President of the club's conservation Pong Su drug availability. Car pick-up the amplifier. Chatuporn said the attack was abandoned and the glass, that whatever ideologies. Became a campaign that came to Thailand to the Company's Management.Which to draw out the candidates. But the Democrats. The attack was said to look for Ms. Shinawatra of Thailand and a secretary. The. District of Artemis have been yelling drove his campaign train Jatuporn. President of the Company's Management Administration candidate. Stand on the car. But said the glass was also announced through the microphone to voice support for the Company's Management. The red train more than 10 cars that drive by the Company's Management. When the District has agreed that Mr. R. was not really ready to negotiate with. The District Red Sun has so united the coat, the symbol of the red out. The leaders of the two facilities to train I think. It also brings together more than 50 shirts off the street in front of the train burning oil pouring of the square together. Wounding nearly the same between both sides. Mr. Pong Su drug Conservation District Art Club president has said that the protest was due to a lack of confidence in leaders. I think. There is no ideology left behind. Since the election of the President Administration.'s Local elections. Thai people should not come down to either openly support the use of the red shirts. This will cause breakage of the community.The former President, Mr. Prime PAO content ton tender. District No. 2 of the register is used to support the Red Shirts have always been. Therefore, mass duplication. And that's really the glass with his campaign to another. It is incorrect. They need to protest. After burning up red. They are a group of people in the district, and will not wear red. And will not tamper with them to Thailand. The process step. All I know is that it is not the essence of the lead at the gold.

Toad Tu the Glass - is that Korkeaw?

Jatuporn - the glass is red Pong District, Phayao and help them reach Mr. Worawit election campaign, President Bush Administration. The idea that there is no ideology. The party sent to Thailand for local elections. The two leaders did not respond. The protesters burned the red shows the road<br style="font: 16px/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> <br style="font: 16px/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> yesterday (October 30) has been campaigning for Mr. Bush Voravit any candidate Mr. President, Administration. District No. 1 of the rice market by Mr. A. Pong, Phayao. Jatuporn. Brahma, the Union and the United Front for Democracy glass Pikulthong mainstay fighter Dictatorship (UDD) to which the election campaign, Mr. Conservation bulging into the club of young beautiful red arc has a staff of around 300 people said. He attacks the glass and a square with that. I think lack of confidence in leaders. Because their ideology that the party sent to Thailand should not overlap with those candidates down.This is a local election. Local people should have the freedom to choose his own administration. And after this will not interfere with the red shirts and the Thai people. I know that the core essence of how that was not really ready to retaliate against this.To place young people in Red Army. United in the red shirt to wear. Park your car in the lead I think. And brings together 50 of the shirt that pour oil burned in the streets. But no violence occurred. read more details.

[Buchholz]

Incidentally Suchinda - whose crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's

I think I have to agree with hammered on this one

I don't agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country

[whybother]

Incidentally Suchinda - whose crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's

I think I have to agree with hammered on this one

I don't agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country

What ever did happen to THAT Hammered?

[serenitynow]

Incidentally Suchinda - whose crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's

I think I have to agree with hammered on this one

I don't agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country

What ever did happen to THAT Hammered?

You mean the honest one? Who knows.

[jayboy]

Incidentally Suchinda - whose crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's

I think I have to agree with hammered on this one

I don't agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country

I think its worth reminding ourselves that under Thaksin protests were permitted and as far as I know nobody was hurt or killed.None of his successors can say the same most notably Abhisit.

I'm not sure why you've dragged up Hammered's post of over two years ago.It's a perfect reasonable position although it would have been helpful if a link had been provided so the context was clear.What your post has to do with the Suchinda comparison isn't immediately apparent.

[siampolee]

I think its worth reminding ourselves that under Thaksin protests were permitted and as far as I know nobody was hurt or killed.None of his successors can say the same most notably Abhisit.

Tak Bae springs to mind as one example of a protest under the Thaksin regime.

Oh sorry Thaksins excuse was that the victims died due to their weakness from fasting over the Ramadam period.

I'm not sure why you've dragged up Hammered's post of over two years ago.It's a perfect reasonable position although it would have been helpful if a link had been provided so the context was clear.What your post has to do with the Suchinda comparison isn't immediately apparent.

One can only presume that . " The truth hurts."

Edited November 2, 2011 by siampolee

[serenitynow]

Incidentally Suchinda - whose crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's

I think I have to agree with hammered on this one

I don't agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country

I think its worth reminding ourselves that under Thaksin protests were permitted and as far as I know nobody was hurt or killed.

Tak Bai, Kruer Se ring any bells for you? I think his forest department rangers got up to some occasional mischief as well.

[jayboy]

I think its worth reminding ourselves that under Thaksin protests were permitted and as far as I know nobody was hurt or killed.None of his successors can say the same most notably Abhisit.

Tak Bae springs to mind as one example of a protest under the Thaksin regime.

Oh sorry Thaksins excuse was that the victims died due to their weakness from fasting over the Ramadam period.

I'm not sure why you've dragged up Hammered's post of over two years ago.It's a perfect reasonable position although it would have been helpful if a link had been provided so the context was clear.What your post has to do with the Suchinda comparison isn't immediately apparent.

One can only presume that . " The truth hurts."

Thaksin made some contemptible remarks after the Tak Bai massacre.However it wasn't a protest, Thaksin had no hand in it and the army officers responsible were cleared of all charges under Abhisit's watch.

Thaksin did abuse human rights certainly, notably in the illegal drugs war and restrictions on free speech, but he did not have a role in the deaths of protesting civilians on the streets of Bangkok.His successors, most notably Abhisit cannot claim that.I am tempted to say that the truth hurts.

Edited November 2, 2011 by jayboy

[Buchholz]

Incidentally Suchinda - whose crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's

I think I have to agree with hammered on this one

I don't agree with that. What worries me most is that Thaksin is a serial human rights abuser of the worst kind and no believer in democracy can be held up as a beacon of it. What worries me most is that his allies and acolytes in feudal warlord PTP are the worst exploiters of the poor in the country

I think its worth reminding ourselves that under Thaksin protests were permitted and as far as I know nobody was hurt or killed.None of his successors can say the same most notably Abhisit.

I'm not sure why you've dragged up Hammered's post of over two years ago.It's a perfect reasonable position although it would have been helpful if a link had been provided so the context was clear.What your post has to do with the Suchinda comparison isn't immediately apparent.

It was put forth based on your assessment that "Suchinda's crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's".

No one has surpassed Thaksin's human rights crimes, of thousands killed, in living memory. No one has surpassed Thaksin's economic crimes ever.

Allowing protests hardly qualifies as an equalizer of those crimes.

.

[siampolee]

Thaksin made some contemptible remarks after the Tak Bai massacre.However it wasn't a protest, Thaksin had no hand in it and the army officers responsible were cleared of all charges under Abhisit's watch.

I have no idea what you mean by "truth hurts".

Unbelievable total denial of all the known verified facts prove under Thaksins regime too.,.t

Edited November 2, 2011 by siampolee

[jayboy]

It was put forth based on your assessment that "Suchinda's crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's".

No one has surpassed Thaksin's human rights crimes, of thousands killed, in living memory. No one has surpassed Thaksin's economic crimes ever.

Allowing protests hardly qualifies as an equalizer of those crimes.

I'm afraid this doesn't make much sense or rather you have completely lost any sense of perspective.I know you have been preoccupied with the demonisation of Thaksin over several years on this forum, but making silly and hyperbolic claims doesn't advance your cause.

Thaksin certainly abused human rights.As I previously noted the main areas where he had a direct responsibility were the drugs war and curbing the free media.

The human rights abuses in the South were committed by the army, and the senior officers concerned were absolved of all charges when Abhisit was PM.Thaksin made some highly offensive remarks after Tak Bai, but that doesn't really amount to a crime against humanity.Of course he was PM at the time and thus can't escape responsibility.But a degree of common sense is needed in allocating blame here.The true criminals from the Thai army got off free, as they always do - though I seem to have missed your expression of dismay when they did.

The drugs war is of course the main area where Thaksin has direct responsibility.I doubt whether my views on the morality involved differ much from yours on this, though perhaps I am more conscious of the sheer misery the drugs business had brought to Thailand.The Thaksinophobes (don't know about you personally) never seem to worry about this aspect.The problem on this issue is that it had near unanimous support from all levels of Thai society.It was never even remotely possible Thaksin would be charged with this, not only because some of his bitterest enemies would be implicated.So yes this was a major human rights crime but one that will never be dealt with.

The repression of the media was certainly a feature under Thaksin, but as various independent observers have pointed out this continued and even was increased under successive governments, notably that of Abhisit.

As to economic crimes, your claim is absurd.The charges against him were relatively trivial and we know from many sources including Wikileaks the authorities were determined to "get" Thaksin whatever the pretext.I'm not suggesting he doesn't have charges to answer including tax issues in the Temasek case.Incidentally it isn't widely known that the most elite banks in the Kingdom supported Shin on this transaction.To suggest these were the greatest economic crimes in Thai history is to betray ignorance.Do some research on Sarit or Kriengsak nearer to our own time.Or think about the Thai generals up to their ears in drugs, prostitution and other crimes.In a word get some perspective.Thaksin's a pain in the neck I agree but he's not the devil incarnate.

[longway]

I haven't seen this on here anywhere but a Thai colleague assures me that Jatuporn had his red shirt ripped from him and burned and was accused of having switched allegiance to the PTP in one of the flood-stricken provinces.

Thank you for sharing.

Could you please ask if he has any additional information?

I hope that is true

I have been sent 2 articles in Thai:

http://www.sritrangn...ws.php?nid=1937

http://www.thaiday.c...D=9540000138380

Google translate is hilarious

A. Red Pong Iawa! "Toad Tu - the Glass" parade up the red shirts to support its fight against its whim. PAO President's chair. Phayao ideological thrust wrinkle free shirts. Before gathering in front of burning red. Pull up a permanent And will not tamper with them to Thailand. The process. I think. The next<br style="font: x-small/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> <br style="font: x-small/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> report as at 30 October, the rice market and rice, T., A. Pong, Phayao, said the federation and the formation of glass Jatuporn Prom Pikulthong UDD leaders. Pick up a campaign for the Company's Management personnel who supplied Mr. President, Administration. District No. 1 candidate for a red-shirt group called Art District has about 300 people led by President of the club's conservation Pong Su drug availability. Car pick-up the amplifier. Chatuporn said the attack was abandoned and the glass, that whatever ideologies. Became a campaign that came to Thailand to the Company's Management.Which to draw out the candidates. But the Democrats. The attack was said to look for Ms. Shinawatra of Thailand and a secretary. The. District of Artemis have been yelling drove his campaign train Jatuporn. President of the Company's Management Administration candidate. Stand on the car. But said the glass was also announced through the microphone to voice support for the Company's Management. The red train more than 10 cars that drive by the Company's Management. When the District has agreed that Mr. R. was not really ready to negotiate with. The District Red Sun has so united the coat, the symbol of the red out. The leaders of the two facilities to train I think. It also brings together more than 50 shirts off the street in front of the train burning oil pouring of the square together. Wounding nearly the same between both sides. Mr. Pong Su drug Conservation District Art Club president has said that the protest was due to a lack of confidence in leaders. I think. There is no ideology left behind. Since the election of the President Administration.'s Local elections. Thai people should not come down to either openly support the use of the red shirts. This will cause breakage of the community.The former President, Mr. Prime PAO content ton tender. District No. 2 of the register is used to support the Red Shirts have always been. Therefore, mass duplication. And that's really the glass with his campaign to another. It is incorrect. They need to protest. After burning up red. They are a group of people in the district, and will not wear red. And will not tamper with them to Thailand. The process step. All I know is that it is not the essence of the lead at the gold.

Toad Tu the Glass - is that Korkeaw?

Jatuporn - the glass is red Pong District, Phayao and help them reach Mr. Worawit election campaign, President Bush Administration. The idea that there is no ideology. The party sent to Thailand for local elections. The two leaders did not respond. The protesters burned the red shows the road<br style="font: 16px/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> <br style="font: 16px/normal Tahoma; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> yesterday (October 30) has been campaigning for Mr. Bush Voravit any candidate Mr. President, Administration. District No. 1 of the rice market by Mr. A. Pong, Phayao. Jatuporn. Brahma, the Union and the United Front for Democracy glass Pikulthong mainstay fighter Dictatorship (UDD) to which the election campaign, Mr. Conservation bulging into the club of young beautiful red arc has a staff of around 300 people said. He attacks the glass and a square with that. I think lack of confidence in leaders. Because their ideology that the party sent to Thailand should not overlap with those candidates down.This is a local election. Local people should have the freedom to choose his own administration. And after this will not interfere with the red shirts and the Thai people. I know that the core essence of how that was not really ready to retaliate against this.To place young people in Red Army. United in the red shirt to wear. Park your car in the lead I think. And brings together 50 of the shirt that pour oil burned in the streets. But no violence occurred. read more details.

I have no idea what the translations mean, but I hope of someone does decide to burn Jatuporn's red shirt, they dont bother make him take it off first.

[nicknostitz]

Just in case people are interested and want to check for themselves if the stickers that were discussed earlier are real, they can see them under the flyover at the Phahonyothin / Ratchadaphisek intersection in the direction of Rama 9 road. I know this was mentioned earlier already, but I just found it "interesting" that the boats are still standing there in the same state as apparently a few days ago without them seeing a lot of water until now. Slightly surprising as one would have thought that they could have very good use for them a few kilometer up the road.

I did not have the guts to take additional photos to prove that the stickers exist (therefore I just attach again the photo that was posted earlier here), as the people at the tend did not really look that friendly and the police uniform that was hanging in the tend did also not necessarily convince me to think that it was a good idea to take some photos. Noteworthy for me was also that there was a rather big amount of relief goods in the tends as well waiting to be delivered to ...??

I wish Nick could find some time to talk to the chaps there to find out more about them and their motives, but I am sure he has more important things to do.....

I have have talked to the chaps there today.

A bit later, when i have more time, i will give you a brief summary of my interview. They were very friendly, by the way.

Later, Nick

[philw]

It was put forth based on your assessment that "Suchinda's crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's".

No one has surpassed Thaksin's human rights crimes, of thousands killed, in living memory. No one has surpassed Thaksin's economic crimes ever.

Allowing protests hardly qualifies as an equalizer of those crimes.

I'm afraid this doesn't make much sense or rather you have completely lost any sense of perspective.I know you have been preoccupied with the demonisation of Thaksin over several years on this forum, but making silly and hyperbolic claims doesn't advance your cause.

Thaksin certainly abused human rights.As I previously noted the main areas where he had a direct responsibility were the drugs war and curbing the free media.

The human rights abuses in the South were committed by the army, and the senior officers concerned were absolved of all charges when Abhisit was PM.Thaksin made some highly offensive remarks after Tak Bai, but that doesn't really amount to a crime against humanity.Of course he was PM at the time and thus can't escape responsibility.But a degree of common sense is needed in allocating blame here.The true criminals from the Thai army got off free, as they always do - though I seem to have missed your expression of dismay when they did.

The drugs war is of course the main area where Thaksin has direct responsibility.I doubt whether my views on the morality involved differ much from yours on this, though perhaps I am more conscious of the sheer misery the drugs business had brought to Thailand.The Thaksinophobes (don't know about you personally) never seem to worry about this aspect.The problem on this issue is that it had near unanimous support from all levels of Thai society.It was never even remotely possible Thaksin would be charged with this, not only because some of his bitterest enemies would be implicated.So yes this was a major human rights crime but one that will never be dealt with.

The repression of the media was certainly a feature under Thaksin, but as various independent observers have pointed out this continued and even was increased under successive governments, notably that of Abhisit.

As to economic crimes, your claim is absurd.The charges against him were relatively trivial and we know from many sources including Wikileaks the authorities were determined to "get" Thaksin whatever the pretext.I'm not suggesting he doesn't have charges to answer including tax issues in the Temasek case.Incidentally it isn't widely known that the most elite banks in the Kingdom supported Shin on this transaction.To suggest these were the greatest economic crimes in Thai history is to betray ignorance.Do some research on Sarit or Kriengsak nearer to our own time.Or think about the Thai generals up to their ears in drugs, prostitution and other crimes.In a word get some perspective.Thaksin's a pain in the neck I agree but he's not the devil incarnate.

Thanks JB for a correct, accurate and detailed post.

My breath is bated for the point by point rebuttal which will not happen.

Your point about the banks and their support for Shin Corp , AIS and soft but profitable loans to Burma implies volumes.

I just deleted what I would have liked to say, self censorship in the land of the free.........

[nicknostitz]

A brief summary of my chat with the Red Shirt team of the controversial boat issue. I spoke with Pongpisit "Lek Bandon" Krongsaena, the chief of their community radio station and of the team, and some of his team members who i have known for quite some time.

Basically they are an independent team of the 102.75 "Wittayu Khon Thai Hua Jai Diaow Gan" community radio station. They emphasized that they are not under authority of either the UDD or the government.They have two boats with engines, which they bought themselves for 60 000 Baht each, financed by donations from listeners of the station, and helped out in the flood relief since about three months. They started helping in Phitsanulok, and then most other affected provinces. Their team consists of about 20 people.

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy. In the field their policy is to help anybody regardless of color, they also announce that when they go anywhere, and that during the flood there are no colors as everybody is affected.

They both help people out of their homes, and distribute donations, which they collected through their radio station themselves. Since about one or two weeks they also coordinate with the government, about where they should go.

Their basic aim is to help people, and of course they are proud to do that as Red Shirts. They also said that they already have donations collected to distribute for the cold season in Isarn villages.

They said anybody who would like to find out about them is welcome to visit them and ask questions, as they are working with transparency.

[ThaiOats]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

Thanks Nick for clearing that out. Now can all of you nay-sayers who thought the stickers were Photoshopped or how ludicrous it sounded to put stickers on the boat come up with any other defenses? Monkfish?

They put up the stickers because they "thought it looked cool". Really... I thought a sticker of Astro-boy would've looked cooler than something so blatantly obvious that the message was intended for that very purpose. The intention was there even if they couldn't go through with it.

[nicknostitz]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

Thanks Nick for clearing that out. Now can all of you nay-sayers who thought the stickers were Photoshopped or how ludicrous it sounded to put stickers on the boat come up with any other defenses? Monkfish?

They put up the stickers because they "thought it looked cool". Really... I thought a sticker of Astro-boy would've looked cooler than something so blatantly obvious that the message was intended for that very purpose. The intention was there even if they couldn't go through with it.

Actually - no - they never intended to only help red shirts. Please do not interpret your own perceptions into this issue. Again - they were very clear about that point, that they never intended to only help Red Shirts, but all affected people, from the start of their efforts.

[rubl]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

In the field their policy is to help anybody regardless of color, they also announce that when they go anywhere, and that during the flood there are no colors as everybody is affected.

They both help people out of their homes, and distribute donations, which they collected through their radio station themselves.

(begin and end removed)

At least this puts to rest the discussion on fake/doctored/real pictures

Almost looks like a children's prank, 'thought it looked cool'. Good to read they help anyone anyway, way to go

[nicknostitz]

At least this puts to rest the discussion on fake/doctored/real pictures

Almost looks like a children's prank, 'thought it looked cool'. Good to read they help anyone anyway, way to go

Thanks.

Unfortunately nowadays one has to be very careful with the authenticity of images, as both digitally faked images are around (also by well known agencies), staged images (i am very sure that several images that even have won world press awards were staged), and of images with purposely wrong captions to make situations appear in a different light, both for commercial and political reasons (this is so common that it regularly makes me sick and embarrassed to be in the business of journalism).

Basically - they are not a professional NGO, but normal people that through their politicization and empowerment as part of the Red Shirt movement developed a need to get involved in larger issues - not just in politics, but also now helping in the flood. Besides that - volunteering is a very important part of Thai life. But yes, i told them that it may not have been the most intelligent idea to put these stickers up.

[serenitynow]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

Thanks Nick for clearing that out. Now can all of you nay-sayers who thought the stickers were Photoshopped or how ludicrous it sounded to put stickers on the boat come up with any other defenses? Monkfish?

They put up the stickers because they "thought it looked cool". Really... I thought a sticker of Astro-boy would've looked cooler than something so blatantly obvious that the message was intended for that very purpose. The intention was there even if they couldn't go through with it.

Actually - no - they never intended to only help red shirts. Please do not interpret your own perceptions into this issue. Again - they were very clear about that point, that they never intended to only help Red Shirts, but all affected people, from the start of their efforts.

I'm sure you're right Nick, but tell me, why are the stickers still on the boats then?

edit: Never mind, it's a rhetorical question.

Edited November 2, 2011 by serenitynow

[Moonrakers]

Wow

What cool looking stickers, you can see why they'd want them. They are so gnarly dude.

[nicknostitz]

I'm sure you're right Nick, but tell me, why are the stickers still on the boats then?

Mostly they were not really that aware that these stickers became such an issue. They thought that the controversy was mostly about that people accused them of having used boats that were owned by the government. They said that i was the first person that actually has spoken with them in length about the issue. People have asked them before, they said, and they answered that they will help everybody.

I gave them the advice that it might be a good idea to take these stickers down. It is up to them to take the advice.

The problem i see here is that some people made these photos, and did either not bother to get their view on this, or even worse, did not want to bother either, as they had an opportunity to score some political points.

Now of course, if there is a reliable report (and reliable means more than just another internet rumor!) coming out that this team has indeed refused to help non-red shirts, then this would be of course a different issue. So far I am not aware though of any such incident being reported, and i am quite sure if there would have been such an incident - we would have heard of it by now.

[nicknostitz]

Wow

What cool looking stickers, you can see why they'd want them. They are so gnarly dude.

And it must be so cool to contribute nothing but put downs from behind the keyboard. Way to go, dude...

[Moonrakers]

Wow

What cool looking stickers, you can see why they'd want them. They are so gnarly dude.

And it must be so cool to contribute nothing but put downs from behind the keyboard. Way to go, dude...

Do you really feel that anybody would think they look cool? What is so cool about them

They must have had them made themselves as well (not unless they just happened to find a couple laying around). Are we to believe that that they had them conceived, designed, printed and then stuck on the boats because they "look cool"?

Whomever came up with that excuse must think we were born yesterday.

[rubl]

I'm sure you're right Nick, but tell me, why are the stickers still on the boats then?

Mostly they were not really that aware that these stickers became such an issue. They thought that the controversy was mostly about that people accused them of having used boats that were owned by the government. They said that i was the first person that actually has spoken with them in length about the issue. People have asked them before, they said, and they answered that they will help everybody.

I gave them the advice that it might be a good idea to take these stickers down. It is up to them to take the advice.

The problem i see here is that some people made these photos, and did either not bother to get their view on this, or even worse, did not want to bother either, as they had an opportunity to score some political points.

Now of course, if there is a reliable report (and reliable means more than just another internet rumor!) coming out that this team has indeed refused to help non-red shirts, then this would be of course a different issue. So far I am not aware though of any such incident being reported, and i am quite sure if there would have been such an incident - we would have heard of it by now.

As I said before "almost looks like a children's prank". Mind you the problem started with the unthoughfullness, asking for misinterpretation. So, sorry to say, but blame those who started this issue with 'cool looking stickers', don't blame those who saw and wondered

[nicknostitz]

Wow

What cool looking stickers, you can see why they'd want them. They are so gnarly dude.

And it must be so cool to contribute nothing but put downs from behind the keyboard. Way to go, dude...

Do you really feel that anybody would think they look cool? What is so cool about them

They must have had them made themselves as well (not unless they just happened to find a couple laying around). Are we to believe that that they had them conceived, designed, printed and then stuck on the boats because they "look cool"?

Whomever came up with that excuse must think we were born yesterday.

What is cool for Thais is not necessary cool for farang. You are not back home - different fashions in different cultures.

The common mistake of superimposing ones own cultural background on alien cultures that one does not properly understand...

[serenitynow]

I'm sure you're right Nick, but tell me, why are the stickers still on the boats then?

The problem i see here is that some people made these photos, and did either not bother to get their view on this, or even worse, did not want to bother either, as they had an opportunity to score some political points.

Nick, just as an aside, what do you suppose the view of the person that displays this sign is?

Edited November 2, 2011 by serenitynow

[nicknostitz]

As I said before "almost looks like a children's prank". Mind you the problem started with the unthoughfullness, asking for misinterpretation. So, sorry to say, but blame those who started this issue with 'cool looking stickers', don't blame those who saw and wondered

Haven't we all be unthoughtful at times?

I have seen much worse in disaster zones. I will never forget an incident during the tsunami where in fact a large western foreign governmental disaster relief organization has only helped their own nationals staying then in a 5 star Hotel that was affected, and have done nothing for the locals, even though they had much needed equipment.

[rubl]

Wow

What cool looking stickers, you can see why they'd want them. They are so gnarly dude.

And it must be so cool to contribute nothing but put downs from behind the keyboard. Way to go, dude...

Do you really feel that anybody would think they look cool? What is so cool about them

They must have had them made themselves as well (not unless they just happened to find a couple laying around). Are we to believe that that they had them conceived, designed, printed and then stuck on the boats because they "look cool"?

Whomever came up with that excuse must think we were born yesterday.

What is cool for Thais is not necessary cool for farang. You are not back home - different fashions in different cultures.

The common mistake of superimposing ones own cultural background on alien cultures that one does not properly understand...

Nick, you're drifting away from it. "For red-shirts only" on a manifactured, waterproof sticker is no fun, not even for Thai who may or may not think differently from foreigners. Simply bad taste especially regarding the dire situation lots of Thai are in at this moment.

[rubl]

As I said before "almost looks like a children's prank". Mind you the problem started with the unthoughfullness, asking for misinterpretation. So, sorry to say, but blame those who started this issue with 'cool looking stickers', don't blame those who saw and wondered

Haven't we all be unthoughtful at times?

I have seen much worse in disaster zones. I will never forget an incident during the tsunami where in fact a large western foreign governmental disaster relief organization has only helped their own nationals staying then in a 5 star Hotel that was affected, and have done nothing for the locals, even though they had much needed equipment.

Totally irrelevant, my dear chap. Even Thai know from reading their local newspapers that there is bad blood between red/yellow shirts, government, BMA, thaiflood, etc., etc. Very enlightening that those stickers may still be on the boats, sticky type of glue I guess