Pheu Thai And Red Shirts Do Nothing To Help Their Own

[TAWP]

A disgusting piece of garbage by one of the Nation's worst, a new low. Have they no shame at all?

Yes, he should have done something more honorable...as miss-labeling government relief bags with names of individual parties and MPs.

[tlansford]

An amazingly cynical, poisonous article that goes right over the top.

Comparisons to 9/11, really. (BTW, he could get the refer correct, shock and awe was Iraq, not 9/11)

People refusing to help one another, come on.

Police have a do-nothing attitude?? Politicians aren't helping??

It has been some time since I refer to this "media outlet" as The Drivel. They deserve it with this one.

[qualtrough]

I agree with you about Thanong, Nick, he's a nutcase. BTW, have you chimed in on the PTP/ Thaksin taking credit for the generosity of others? Is that just sick, or what? And say, how's that Suphanburi story coming along?

Sorry, but i am busy taking pictures of the floods.

I am taking a brief hiatus from politics, as what is highlighted be certain media is nothing but little political bickering by each side of the divide and of no real importance on what actually goes on on the ground. So far, this bickering can be summarized with in one or two sentences: There was a flood, and apart from a few politicians of each side taking political advantage of this disaster, the larger socio-political conflict took a step back as all had to deal with the flood foremost, and for a time political enemies had bury their hatchets.

What about Suphanburi? I am sorry again, i just don't see the relevance. Why don't you enlighten us?

Well, you're the investigative reporter, but here's some leads to follow up. On the flooding. How was it that the dams were 20% below capacity when this govt took office as storms were expected soon, but rather than manage the dams they let them fill to overcapacity requiring the dumping of water at the worst possible time leading to the floods being experienced now. As for Suphan I was hoping you could connect the Banharn, Thaksin, Arab rice deal dots for us and if that had anything to do with the lack of flooding there. Stay well Nick.

I am working on the Red - Yellow conflict, and not on incidents of presumed corruption (all sides guilty), presumed mismanagement (all sides guilty), bad water management (decades of that by all governments), Banharn the eel (around for decades), or any nutty conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with the basic Red - Yellow conflict, and the differing ideological views on the future the Thai state, which is what i work on.

Right now - there is the flood, and so far attempts to draw the Red - Yellow conflict into this disaster is not reflected on the ground in more than on a miniscule level, and any attempt by "journalists" to artificially pull this conflict into the flood itself is nothing but blatantly taking advantage of this disaster, and leaving the path of any journalistic ethics and professionalism.

If you actually go to the affected areas, you can see military, police, Red Shirts and volunteers of many organizations working together (of course with the normal conflicts between humans). Therefore, from the ground perspective, which is my favored perspective - i really cannot say anything else than that, so far.

Have you noticed that none of the reporters that actually get their feet wet have anything else to say, and that the attempts to connect the flood with the sozio-political conflict come only from the reporters that never get down to the ground level - neither during the protests, nor now in the flood?

So, i would suggest the impossible here on Thaivisa: just leave the politics out of it for the time being.

Hi Nick, I have the same observation on the ground here in Pathum Thani as you do, although more limited as I have not gone too far from our flooded house. Everyone here is pitching in to help, good spirits, I don't see any of the kind of thing that certifiable nutcase Thanong writes about.

I am afraid your plea will fall on deaf ears here. For reasons I cannot fathom TVF is a farang yellow shirt redoubt, slightly to the right of Attila the Hun politically. I know you are busy, but when you have time I would like to hear your theories of just why that is so? I know a few Thai red shirts opponents who would be ashamed by some of the crap washing up here. A lot of it is from people who could not understand directions in Thai to their corner 7/11, but somehow they are past masters of Thai current events. Mind boggling.

[Buchholz]

.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, elected in July, has come under withering criticism because of the confusing and conflicting information issued by the government's Flood Relief Operations Center. The center, located at Don Muang domestic airport in northern Bangkok, is now surrounded by water.

Videos and photos have also appeared on the Internet of relief supplies from the government and public donations being delivered in trucks with banners bearing the name of Yingluck's older brother Thaksin Shinawatra and other politicians from the ruling party, sparking charges they are using the disaster for political gain.

Read more:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2097928,00.html#ixzz1c3uwUWFS

Time Magazine - Oct. 27, 2011

.

[tlansford]

I have heard people complaining (although i have no links/proof to back it up) that in some areas, the relief packages that are being handed out comes with the question "are you a red shirt?" - answer "No" and you are told "supplies have run out"

I really *really* hope this is BS... because if its true, it would be disgusting beyond imagination!

Has anyone else heard of this?

It is beyond imagination. Human nature in time of need is to help one another. Put these hate-monger "facts" in perspective.

[frodo]

Kriver>> There is a big difference of a company labeling the gods THEY donate (I helped out at CH3 relief packaging before btw) and groups labeling relief bags from the GOVERNMENT aka paid by TAX MONEY, to be labeled with the labels of a party or a specific MP!

Btw, would you protest if the boats had signs saying 'NO BLACKS'?

Or, even more over the top, labeling relief bags funded by public donations, with the labels of a party or a specific MP.

.

Both. there are some pics on various threads.

[Moonrakers]

I have heard people complaining (although i have no links/proof to back it up) that in some areas, the relief packages that are being handed out comes with the question "are you a red shirt?" - answer "No" and you are told "supplies have run out"

I really *really* hope this is BS... because if its true, it would be disgusting beyond imagination!

Has anyone else heard of this?

It is beyond imagination. Human nature in time of need is to help one another. Put these hate-monger "facts" in perspective.

So what of the boats that are for red shirts only?

Can you put that into perspective for us?

[hanuman1]

Well, you're the investigative reporter, but here's some leads to follow up. On the flooding. How was it that the dams were 20% below capacity when this govt took office as storms were expected soon, but rather than manage the dams they let them fill to overcapacity requiring the dumping of water at the worst possible time leading to the floods being experienced now. As for Suphan I was hoping you could connect the Banharn, Thaksin, Arab rice deal dots for us and if that had anything to do with the lack of flooding there. Stay well Nick.

I am working on the Red - Yellow conflict, and not on incidents of presumed corruption (all sides guilty), presumed mismanagement (all sides guilty), bad water management (decades of that by all governments), Banharn the eel (around for decades), or any nutty conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with the basic Red - Yellow conflict, and the differing ideological views on the future the Thai state, which is what i work on.

Right now - there is the flood, and so far attempts to draw the Red - Yellow conflict into this disaster is not reflected on the ground in more than on a miniscule level, and any attempt by "journalists" to artificially pull this conflict into the flood itself is nothing but blatantly taking advantage of this disaster, and leaving the path of any journalistic ethics and professionalism.

If you actually go to the affected areas, you can see military, police, Red Shirts and volunteers of many organizations working together (of course with the normal conflicts between humans). Therefore, from the ground perspective, which is my favored perspective - i really cannot say anything else than that, so far.

Have you noticed that none of the reporters that actually get their feet wet have anything else to say, and that the attempts to connect the flood with the sozio-political conflict come only from the reporters that never get down to the ground level - neither during the protests, nor now in the flood?

So, i would suggest the impossible here on Thaivisa: just leave the politics out of it for the time being.

Hi Nick, I have the same observation on the ground here in Pathum Thani as you do, although more limited as I have not gone too far from our flooded house. Everyone here is pitching in to help, good spirits, I don't see any of the kind of thing that certifiable nutcase Thanong writes about.

I am afraid your plea will fall on deaf ears here. For reasons I cannot fathom TVF is a farang yellow shirt redoubt, slightly to the right of Attila the Hun politically. I know you are busy, but when you have time I would like to hear your theories of just why that is so? I know a few Thai red shirts opponents who would be ashamed by some of the crap washing up here. A lot of it is from people who could not understand directions in Thai to their corner 7/11, but somehow they are past masters of Thai current events. Mind boggling.

For reasons I cannot fathom TVF is a farang yellow shirt redoubt, slightly to the right of Attila the Hun politically.

Let me help you out here. The forum is mainly driven by The Nation and TAN articles.

Also, there are some posters whose political fervor is so great, they post here just to 'recruit' people to think like them and don't limit their political activism just to this site, but have facebook pages etc etc used to promote the same political viewpoints.

Each to their own, though, eh?

[MunterHunter]

It is beyond imagination. Human nature in time of need is to help one another. Put these hate-monger "facts" in perspective.

Sadly it seems there is an element of truth to these rumours... perhaps those responsible should no longer be considered human? They act like animals...

In times of great disaster, where it should not matter which box you ticked in the election, when man should help his fellow man, seems the bile and poison of the reds runs so deep that they still exclude everyone who is not red.

[allan michaud]

I thought this had already happened, judging from the many complaints of scams by tourists/farangs.

Evolution is changing our lives in Bangkok !! Courtesy of the great flood relief scam scheme being perpetrated by the government

[h90]

Nick, what have you seen in relation to relief goods being labelled with PT / Thaksin / Red shirt stickers and banners? There seems to be a lot of evidence of it happening.

There are many organizations that label their relief supplies, which is normal in any disaster zone. On the ground is so much happening, and i do honestly not see that much going on as is suggested here. Maybe i am in the wrong places for that, as i go to the worst inundated areas to take pictures there. I have met there many Red Shirts, both affected, and helping, and there just is not much political talk going on at all, but talk about the flood, and trying to keep a smile to get over this mess.

Both Red Shirts and military say the same thing - that the colors are right now not important, but working together is.

That is all i can say about this now, and i gotta get going.

Later, Nick

yes many organizations label THEIR relief supplies with their name. Some label OTHERS relief supplies with their name.

[MunterHunter]

Care to explain this?

http://yfrog.com/h6jv2etj

(Text reads; "with love and care from Thaksin Shinnawatr")

Edited October 28, 2011 by MunterHunter

[mrfarang]

And so what if Thaksin puts his name on the goods that he donates? I've seen tons of aid distributed with no logo or any slogan on it. If he donates it, he can do whatever he wants with it. Even the United States puts "donated by the United States Government" on food packs. Get a life, Sherlock.

[Moonrakers]

I notice the red shirts aren't trying to justify the favoritism shown, rather they are trying to deny it.

Of course this can only mean that they themselves feel as though such actions are despicable and cannot be defended.

So why then are they vehemently defending some of the more verbal claims of what is going on, and then apparently ignoring issues such as boats that are clearly labelled for red shirts only. it's such a blatantly selective train of thought that even some of those red shirts themselves must have doubts about the ethics behind what is happening.

[Moonrakers]

And so what if Thaksin puts his name on the goods that he donates? I've seen tons of aid distributed with no logo or any slogan on it. If he donates it, he can do whatever he wants with it. Even the United States puts "donated by the United States Government" on food packs. Get a life, Sherlock.

But did he donate it, or was it donations from the public?

[hanuman1]

I notice the red shirts aren't trying to justify the favoritism shown, rather they are trying to deny it.

Of course this can only mean that they themselves feel as though such actions are despicable and cannot be defended.

So why then are they vehemently defending some of the more verbal claims of what is going on, and then apparently ignoring issues such as boats that are clearly labelled for red shirts only. it's such a blatantly selective train of thought that even some of those red shirts themselves must have doubts about the ethics behind what is happening.

Could you or someone else please post a picture of where it says (presumably in Thai) that the boats are for 'Red Shirts only'.

I saw one image of a boat which had a white sign with ineligible (out of focus) lettering which the accompanying text put there by the poster stated that it said 'for Red Shirts only', but I haven't actually seen any Thai script saying this as yet. It could be plausible that signs might say 'for a red shirt community' or 'for red shirts' (ie for them to do with as they will), but that is far away from saying 'no-one else should use them', and it is this 'only' suffix that I'd like to see in Thai script before I believe what at first sight appears to be more anti-gov/red hysteria.

As for public money being used to send supplies with the government's advertising on it, clearly that is wrong. There may be a chance that it wasn't public money that was being used, but the party's own money, but this hasn't been proved one way or another and certainly should be investigated.

Edited October 28, 2011 by hanuman1

[mrfarang]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

[Moonrakers]

I notice the red shirts aren't trying to justify the favoritism shown, rather they are trying to deny it.

Of course this can only mean that they themselves feel as though such actions are despicable and cannot be defended.

So why then are they vehemently defending some of the more verbal claims of what is going on, and then apparently ignoring issues such as boats that are clearly labelled for red shirts only. it's such a blatantly selective train of thought that even some of those red shirts themselves must have doubts about the ethics behind what is happening.

Could you or someone else please post a picture of where it says (presumably in Thai) that the boats are for 'Red Shirts only'.

I saw one image of a boat which had a white sign with ineligible (out of focus) lettering which the accompanying text put there by the poster stated that it said 'for Red Shirts only', but I haven't actually seen any Thai script saying this as yet. It could be plausible that signs might say 'for a red shirt community' or 'for red shirts' (ie for them to do with as they will), but that is far away from saying 'no-one else should use them', and it is this 'only' suffix that I'd like to see in Thai script before I believe what at first sight appears to be more anti-gov/red hysteria.

Right here, one the second page for everybody to see clearly.

Are you going to deny something that everybody else can see?

Are you going to deny something that you yourself can see?

[Moonrakers]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

That's it

you just keep on clutching at those straws.

[Moruya]

Nick, what have you seen in relation to relief goods being labelled with PT / Thaksin / Red shirt stickers and banners? There seems to be a lot of evidence of it happening.

There are many organizations that label their relief supplies, which is normal in any disaster zone. On the ground is so much happening, and i do honestly not see that much going on as is suggested here. Maybe i am in the wrong places for that, as i go to the worst inundated areas to take pictures there. I have met there many Red Shirts, both affected, and helping, and there just is not much political talk going on at all, but talk about the flood, and trying to keep a smile to get over this mess.

Both Red Shirts and military say the same thing - that the colors are right now not important, but working together is.

That is all i can say about this now, and i gotta get going.

Later, Nick

yes many organizations label THEIR relief supplies with their name. Some label OTHERS relief supplies with their name.

In that case I shall relabel you as "Turnip"

[rogerdee123]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

So are you saying that Thaksin donated one truck?

I'm learning how to reply like TL

I promise not to do it again.

Edited October 28, 2011 by rogerdee123

[MunterHunter]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

Anything to back that up, or is it just your opinion?

[whybother]

And so what if Thaksin puts his name on the goods that he donates? I've seen tons of aid distributed with no logo or any slogan on it. If he donates it, he can do whatever he wants with it. Even the United States puts "donated by the United States Government" on food packs. Get a life, Sherlock.

The truck was being loaded at Don Mueang which is where the public donations are stored.

[Moonrakers]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

Anything to back that up, or is it just your opinion?

He just made it up

Don't bother with him. You could prove him wrong on this and then he'll only make something else up.

[hanuman1]

I notice the red shirts aren't trying to justify the favoritism shown, rather they are trying to deny it.

Of course this can only mean that they themselves feel as though such actions are despicable and cannot be defended.

So why then are they vehemently defending some of the more verbal claims of what is going on, and then apparently ignoring issues such as boats that are clearly labelled for red shirts only. it's such a blatantly selective train of thought that even some of those red shirts themselves must have doubts about the ethics behind what is happening.

Could you or someone else please post a picture of where it says (presumably in Thai) that the boats are for 'Red Shirts only'.

I saw one image of a boat which had a white sign with ineligible (out of focus) lettering which the accompanying text put there by the poster stated that it said 'for Red Shirts only', but I haven't actually seen any Thai script saying this as yet. It could be plausible that signs might say 'for a red shirt community' or 'for red shirts' (ie for them to do with as they will), but that is far away from saying 'no-one else should use them', and it is this 'only' suffix that I'd like to see in Thai script before I believe what at first sight appears to be more anti-gov/red hysteria.

Right here, one the second page for everybody to see clearly.

Are you going to deny something that everybody else can see?

Are you going to deny something that you yourself can see?

I can read Thai fairly well, but maybe I missed it. Could you tell me which Thai words on that page say 'for red Shirts only'?

Otherwise, if you can't read Thai:

Are you going to believe something you cannot reasonably verify or conclude by yourself?

Are you going to believe something that is propagated by people well known to have a prejudiced view?

Cheers :jap:

[Krungbin]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

If he had indeed donated whatever, he would have made sure everybody knew about it...

[Justaword]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

Anything to back that up, or is it just your opinion?

He just made it up

Don't bother with him. You could prove him wrong on this and then he'll only make something else up.

Actually MrT donated something. From the breaking news section yesterday:

"Thaicom Foundation presented 20 floating toilets and 1,000 emergency toilet sets through Thaksin Shinawatra's three children."

How better can he say to his people "See, now you can take care of your own s***!"

[Moonrakers]

I notice the red shirts aren't trying to justify the favoritism shown, rather they are trying to deny it.

Of course this can only mean that they themselves feel as though such actions are despicable and cannot be defended.

So why then are they vehemently defending some of the more verbal claims of what is going on, and then apparently ignoring issues such as boats that are clearly labelled for red shirts only. it's such a blatantly selective train of thought that even some of those red shirts themselves must have doubts about the ethics behind what is happening.

Could you or someone else please post a picture of where it says (presumably in Thai) that the boats are for 'Red Shirts only'.

I saw one image of a boat which had a white sign with ineligible (out of focus) lettering which the accompanying text put there by the poster stated that it said 'for Red Shirts only', but I haven't actually seen any Thai script saying this as yet. It could be plausible that signs might say 'for a red shirt community' or 'for red shirts' (ie for them to do with as they will), but that is far away from saying 'no-one else should use them', and it is this 'only' suffix that I'd like to see in Thai script before I believe what at first sight appears to be more anti-gov/red hysteria.

Right here, one the second page for everybody to see clearly.

Are you going to deny something that everybody else can see?

Are you going to deny something that you yourself can see?

I can read Thai fairly well, but maybe I missed it. Could you tell me which Thai words on that page say 'for red Shirts only'?

Otherwise, if you can't read Thai:

Are you going to believe something you cannot reasonably verify or conclude by yourself?

Are you going to believe something that is propagated by people well known to have a prejudiced view?

Cheers :jap:

My wife translated for me, she can read Thai perfectly well thanks.

She confirmed what others have said, that it categorically states that the boat is to be used only by red shirts. It is not open to interpretation, it is a plain and simple message.. Not a single other person on any board or elsewhere has tried to deny the meaning of the message, and if you even try to go down the "can i trust my wife" route you will make yourself look rather foolish

Now, I have spent too long on internet discussions to get involved in arguments with people that deny what is right before them. It's just interesting to see that people will not waver in their beliefs in the slightest depending solely on which side of the coin is being discussed.

Such partisanship even in the face of such appalling actions is something that makes politics a big bunch if ballbags. You can say what you want on here, it really doesn't matter. But quite why you don't question your partisanship is beyond me.

[Siam Simon]

cut/// Also, there are some posters whose political fervor is so great, they post here just to 'recruit' people to think like them and don't limit their political activism just to this site, but have facebook pages etc etc used to promote the same political viewpoints.

Each to their own, though, eh?

Wow! That's seriously weird. And a little bit sinister.

[MaiChai]

Charlem is certainly not a puppet. Taksin and Charlem have fallen out before. The danger always with Taksin is that he dumps people once they have served their usefullness; certainly those who would threaten him. I am sure Charlem is well aware of this and he certainly is his own man.

Edited October 28, 2011 by MaiChai