Thai Officials On Defensive As Flood Anger Mounts

[alexakap]

If the river and the canals aren't helping, what can anyone do?

The water is moving SLOWLY flowing to the south. You can break down the flood walls, and it will still move SLOWLY to the south. It isn't being "kept" on the north side. There is a hell of a lot of water, and it is moving slowly.

Don't explain to me abot how and where the water flows: it is my 2nd week of being soaked at Pathumthani, and it flows right through my corridor.

Once again: you have no idea how MUCH and how FAST those waters are. I do.

If it's flowing fast, it isn't blocked.

It is flowing NOT to Bkk directly.

It is flowing (at my place) from east to west, where the Klong Prapa is from Nort to South (to Bkk) - but now blocked.

I can say that the water slooooooow flows from Rangsit to BanBuaThong/Nonthaburi, bupassing the blocked Prapa (which leads to MUCH lower areas such as Tiwanon or ChaengWattana). But I could be wrong.

Edited November 1, 2011 by alexakap

[jybkk]

From "another" newspaper this morning:

The Flood Relief Operation Command yesterday estimated that about 9.9 billion cubic metres of northern run-off had been drained to the sea in the east and west of Bangkok and there remained about 5.5 billion cu/m.

At a rate of 550 million cu/m a day of drainage capacity, the water volume should be drained in 10 days.

Doesn't sound much like "blocking" to me.

I also was listening to FROC announcements - right until the water entered my Soi.

And now there is 1.8m of water. Sorry, I stop listeting that FROCced crap 2 weeks ago then.

They can't even protect THEMSELVES from flooding, and must relocate..How will they protect ME??

I understand you're upset. And for very good reasons.

But still. Does it make more sense to follow your advice that you base on a map of Thailand or the opinion of people who have a bunch of experts around them as well as a lot more data than anyone else?

Maybe they are incompetent, but we don't have better than that.

Oh. And just in case you would think I don't care because I'm unaffected, note that it's now 3 households of the 5 in my family that are flooded. I'm just lucky to be one of the 2 dry ones. Hopefully the remaining won't be flooded because I don't know where we will put all this crowd.

[metisdead]

Some nonsense posts have been removed. While we encourage the use of the report button to report objectionable posts, it is not acceptable to reply to objectionable posts in an inflammatory manner.

[alexakap]

I understand you're upset. And for very good reasons.

But still. Does it make more sense to follow your advice that you base on a map of Thailand or the opinion of people who have a bunch of experts around them as well as a lot more data than anyone else?

The only "lot more data" I have is the data right in my house.

I have no idea about other data sources, I just talking something I have right now. I am SEEING the waters - while many posters here are not (yet).

And I am able to compare the official announces with something I am seeing here:

1. FROC said - there will be NO water. Now, it is here - locals are fishing in my soi.

2. BMA said - there will be NO tap water service failures. Now - here is NO tap water for days.

3. BMA said - there will be NO electric shortages. Now - here is NO electricity for days.

4. Official said - there will be free evacuation sevices. Now I had to buy a boat (4500THB) just to be able to abandon the house.

Today, BMA/FROC/PM/other <snip> says: "Bangkok will be safe!". Sorry pal, but I will expect the very opposite then.

Edited November 1, 2011 by metisdead
Flame removed.

[wintermute]

It is flowing NOT to Bkk directly.

It is flowing (at my place) from east to west, where the Klong Prapa is from Nort to South (to Bkk) - but now blocked.

I can say that the water slooooooow flows from Rangsit to BanBuaThong/Nonthaburi, bupassing the blocked Prapa (which leads to MUCH lower areas such as Tiwanon or ChaengWattana). But I could be wrong.

Klong Prapa is not totally blocked. I went by it the other day in one of the unflooded areas it was filled the brim and flowing quite rapidly. There's no way they could increase the capacity without it flooding many other main roads and neighborhoods along the way.

[thaiman]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

Gee, maybe this wouldn't be a problem if maybe they accepted the help of a certain massive carrier equipped with a dozen helicopters and aircraft capable of providing logistics.

Oh no! They're too good for that!

They're getting what they deserve now! Don't mess with nature.

[alexakap]

Klong Prapa is not totally blocked. I went by it the other day in one of the unflooded areas it was filled the brim and flowing quite rapidly.

1. Klong Prapa has MANY gates, not just the one. Mine (upper of SriSaman) is closed.

2. Have no idea about "other day" - I passed there today noon, and the gate was shut. Maybe it was slightly opened underwater - dunno, I have no sonar. But from the surface, it seems completely shut (and waters seeping to the left/right - to the private moobaans....but who cares - those are already flooded for more than a week)...

There's no way they could increase the capacity without it flooding many other main roads and neighborhoods along the way.

Sure.

And now please think from the opposite side (from the "wet" side of that closed watergate): I can just walk in chest-level waters for 20min - and there will be DRY! FRESH-COOKED FOOD, and not ma-ma noodle anymore! ELECTRICITY! WATER! And cold beer in the 7/11 (here all 7/11 are submerged too - as well as markets, mama/papa shops, ATMs and other lulz).

I ust getting sick of this all.

Edited November 1, 2011 by alexakap

[redsox44]

Anyone know why the police seem to be missing, All I'm seeing are troops and civilians....

[alexakap]

Anyone know why the police seem to be missing, All I'm seeing are troops and civilians....

+1

Haven't seen any for weeks.

Seems they afraid to get their tight brown uniforms wet...

Edited November 1, 2011 by alexakap

[dumpling]

How can you argue with that? Get these people some help. I don't understand how this place can be so unorganized during such a serious crisis. The way these people act makes them come across as plain stupid. They to deny international help as if it's an embarrassment rather than taking help which is needed to keep people alive and minimize damage to people and infrastructure. Instead of sending a clear message it just gets garbled in political jargon and superficial attmpts at pacifying, or lying to the general public. Idiots!

no need to for me to post.these are my thoughts exactly.

[Cordelia]

I can understand the need to protect inner BKK, but it's not reasonable to completely disregard the basic needs of the rest of the country.

If you are going to coerce people to sacrifice everything they have for the sake of a chosen few, at least make sure their basic needs are provided for, at all cost.

Mountains of donated goods are now left to rot in the old airport. It can't be that difficult to move them upstairs.

Don't have enough boats? How about asking neighboring countries for some? It can't be that difficult to coordinate.

"I know you don't like it, and I feel so sorry for you, but please just slowly suffer, watch all your possessions go under water, endure the smell, the diseases, starve, go thirsty, while we deliberately prolong your ordeal, we have no idea for how much longer. Please understand this is for the greater good. Really, watch me tear up, I have so much sympathy for you."

[asiascharlie]

The army would have been running the show by now in any other country but here .This group would have been shot at and wouldn't have been allowed near the gate .Now potentially more damage to appease some angry locals .Everyone is affected by this .Everyone is stressed out .That doesn't mean you just go out and threaten people because you cant control your emotions .

[metisdead]

A post with reference to HM the King has been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

[bino]

Spread evening is good. So everyone get 10 to 15 cm of water. Rather than having some poor farmers take 2m deep water by themselves.

Also, most people in central BKK live in condos. 10 to 15 cm of water won't even hit their lobby.

It doesn't quite work like that. Many areas would get a metre or more of water. There are also a lot of basements that would get flooded.

A lot of major roads would not be able to be used. Look at what's happening around Don Mueang. 1 - 2 metres of water.

Most people in Bangkok live in 4-6 story apartment buildings, without cooking facilities. They rely on all the food businesses at ground level to eat. How do you get food to a 5 million people?

Nope - It definitely doesn't work like that at all. We live in a Thai condo building, on the 6th of 12 floors, and about 30 condos on each floor. True, the water won't damage our condo, but the utility room where the power and telephone comes into the building is on the ground floor. There are several big transformer / switch boxes sitting on the floor of this room, so it definitely won't withstand a meter of water.

Once that room gets wet, more than 350 condos / families will be fcked, and it won't get fixed until the water subsides. Furthermore, considering that there will likely be a lot of other buildings in the same situation, getting the new transformers etc to fix it will probably take weeks or months. Living on a high floor of a dead building over an open sewer just doesn't sound like my idea of fun.

In light of that, we have locked up the condo and bailed out to a sweet one bedroom pool villa in Hua Hin for 800 per night for the duration.

[Fookhaht]

In light of that, we have locked up the condo and bailed out to a sweet one bedroom pool villa in Hua Hin for 800 per night for the duration.

Isn't it nice to have choices? I pity the vast majority of poorer people in the northern districts and provinces who don't have this luxury. They're truly starting to live through hell: snakes, crocodiles, toxic water, mosquitoes, and thieves. Hope you donated something to them before you left for your poolside villa.

[GeorgeO]

As usual, can't count on the government and police to keep the peace. It istime to call the Army

Also These actions by angry Thais will not be forgotten by Bangkokresidence. When time comes, then people with Bangkok will be less generous tohelp the flood effected people. What I know about Thai people they are very revengeful

Well in fact if such scenario becomes true then the bangkokian will have a lot to worry about...as far as i remember there are few rice fields, chicken farms and so so in bkk.....

So who will these chicken and rice farmers sell their produce to? ... each other?

[wintermute]

Hope you donated something to them before you left for your poolside villa.

This guilt trip is nonsense. Why should foreigners bear the costs? Where are all the Thai billionaires right now and what are they doing to alleviate the pain and suffering of the poor? The answer: Absolutely jack sh*t or a laughable token amount. They are going to offer "loan" packages to fleece them further after this is finished mark my words.

[Fookhaht]

Hope you donated something to them before you left for your poolside villa.

This guilt trip is nonsense. Why should foreigners bear the costs? Where are all the Thai billionaires right now and what are they doing to alleviate the pain and suffering of the poor? The answer: Absolutely jack sh*t or a laughable token amount. They are going to offer "loan" packages to fleece them further after this is finished mark my words.

A truly jaded, calloused perspective on the suffering of others.

The poster's logic: " The poor and helpless are being screwed by their masters, so it absolves me of any moral responsibility to try to help." There's a big disconnect somewhere there.

[bino]

Hope you donated something to them before you left for your poolside villa.

I'd been diligently filling up all of the water bottles I could put my hands on at the purifying machine in our building. I gave them to our neighbor and his wife who are hosting some family from Nakorn Prathom and were flooded out weeks ago. We also gave them our stash of mama noodles, canned tuna, etc.

Ms. Bino arranged a bank transfer donation to Channel 3. We were both impressed by the pictures on the news of them dropping relief bundles to people from their news chopper. No goddamned way we would donate to FROC.

As for choices, indeed it is nice. Anyone who has the resources to get out now but decides to play the "wait and see" game is a fool. When the water hits their house or neighborhood and they are being evacuated in a crowded boat or army truck because their car is ruined, they will be wishing that they had gotten out when they could have.

[mdechgan]

Anyone know why the police seem to be missing, All I'm seeing are troops and civilians....

+1

Haven't seen any for weeks.

Seems they afraid to get their tight brown uniforms wet...

+2

I did see some pull a few cars over for traffic violations though.

Edited November 1, 2011 by mdechgan

[Jawnie]

Some of the government thinking about this is a little backward. Save the downtown businesses at the expense of the residential and neighborhood commerical areas. Makes sense, right...the 'heart' of the city and it's economic engine?

Yes, but.....don't the downtown businesses have more resources and money to repair and reconstruct than individuals homeowners and small businesses? The big malls and businesses downtown are more likely to be insured, also. Also, if you lose a business, okay, you lose a business and you come in and work until it is up and running again. But if you lose your home and your neighborhood, it is much more difficult to cope and stay focussed on moving forward.

There's a bit of the same mentality here as in the US where banks 'too big to fail' were bailed out by taxpayers, but the taxpayers got screwed. For instance, my bank, Chase, got billions in bailout funds. However, during 2011, Chase plead guilty in two separate court cases for it's business practices and paid millions of dollars in fines. But, I digress.

The businesses downtown are simply more able to rebound from a disaster or flood, in this case, than individuals and small businesses.

[whybother]

Some of the government thinking about this is a little backward. Save the downtown businesses at the expense of the residential and neighborhood commerical areas. Makes sense, right...the 'heart' of the city and it's economic engine?

Yes, but.....don't the downtown businesses have more resources and money to repair and reconstruct than individuals homeowners and small businesses? The big malls and businesses downtown are more likely to be insured, also. Also, if you lose a business, okay, you lose a business and you come in and work until it is up and running again. But if you lose your home and your neighborhood, it is much more difficult to cope and stay focussed on moving forward.

There's a bit of the same mentality here as in the US where banks 'too big to fail' were bailed out by taxpayers, but the taxpayers got screwed. For instance, my bank, Chase, got billions in bailout funds. However, during 2011, Chase plead guilty in two separate court cases for it's business practices and paid millions of dollars in fines. But, I digress.

The businesses downtown are simply more able to rebound from a disaster or flood, in this case, than individuals and small businesses.

A lot of people live in central Bangkok. How do you provide them relief if they're stuck in a metre or 2 of water?

2.5 - 3 million already affected by the floods. If central Bangkok was seriously flooded, you could double or triple that.

[plumeria]

I love the people, as do other elected politicians

:lol:

Right! 555555555555555555555555!

That was the governor's first gaffe.

Now he has proven he is not perfect.

Just a hell of a lot better than the PM.

It is so heartwarming that the PM is willing to sacrifice her own people because she loves farangs so much.

And WHY are Thais OK with that?

[fatjenny]

People say only Thai politicians care about the country not foreigners.... ha ha ha.

[Tokay]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

Gee, maybe this wouldn't be a problem if maybe they accepted the help of a certain massive carrier equipped with a dozen helicopters and aircraft capable of providing logistics.

When they turned down their help, I did a face palm because I knew they were greatly needed. I also knew that the Thais would somehow end up probably losing face if they take take the help, and we all know they can't do that, even if it means the people go without food and water.

One stupid problem after another.

[erobando]

Some of the government thinking about this is a little backward. Save the downtown businesses at the expense of the residential and neighborhood commerical areas. Makes sense, right...the 'heart' of the city and it's economic engine?

Yes, but.....don't the downtown businesses have more resources and money to repair and reconstruct than individuals homeowners and small businesses? The big malls and businesses downtown are more likely to be insured, also. Also, if you lose a business, okay, you lose a business and you come in and work until it is up and running again. But if you lose your home and your neighborhood, it is much more difficult to cope and stay focussed on moving forward.

There's a bit of the same mentality here as in the US where banks 'too big to fail' were bailed out by taxpayers, but the taxpayers got screwed. For instance, my bank, Chase, got billions in bailout funds. However, during 2011, Chase plead guilty in two separate court cases for it's business practices and paid millions of dollars in fines. But, I digress.

The businesses downtown are simply more able to rebound from a disaster or flood, in this case, than individuals and small businesses.

The central business district is the heart of the Thai economy so, of course, they'll try to protect it. The longer it can not function, the longer the economic impact on the whole country.

But it's a small area and not being saved "at the expense" of other areas. Places that are flooded are flooded... water needs to be drained but there's a lot of it.

Also, the Bangkok government is not only focusing on the central area. They are trying to prevent flooding in other key areas, too.

Yesterday, they announced plans to try to preserve some districts in Thonburi by holding water in areas in which flooding already exists and can't be stopped.

It's impossible to quickly unflood effected areas so the next best thing to do is try to limit the spread of flooding.

And, yes, the plan is economically motivated. It will be impossible to prevent flooding on Phetkasem so they'll need to do all they can to preserve Rama 2 Road or else travel to and from the west and south will become nearly impossible.

[metisdead]

A post with reference to HM the King has been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

[geriatrickid]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

Gee, maybe this wouldn't be a problem if maybe they accepted the help of a certain massive carrier equipped with a dozen helicopters and aircraft capable of providing logistics.

Your right about that!

The OP was commenting on urban Bangkok. Please explain how a few helicopters would be used to "provide logistics" in a congested urban zone. Which aircraft carrier are you referring too? If you mean the USN vessel, you are incorrect. Helicopters are not used to deliver aid in congested urban settings. There are a number of dangerous obstacles such as high structures, difficult air currents caused by the structures hanging wires and other aviation hazards. Do you propose that that the helicopters just toss the aid from a safe height of a few hundred meters? The problem with that idea is that the packages would explode on impact. No responsible authority will use helicopters to fly into congested areas where people can be put at risk from the backwash or worse, a crash. Helicopters might be used for rescues,and to reach difficult areas, but there really was and still is no need for helicopters to be used in the areas referenced. More aid would be moved by a few trucks and boats than a helicopter under the current circumstances.

[whybother]

More flood embankments destroyed, this time affecting food processing factories.

Nakhon Pathom factories threatened as residents destroy floodwalls

A large volume of water from the Tha Chin River inundated Nakhon Chaisi and Sam Phran in Nakhon Pathom province yesterday after residents of both districts destroyed floodwalls.

...

In Sam Phran district, floodwalls built to protect some 2,000 food-processing factories in the economic area comprising Tambon Om Yai, Om Noi, Rai Khing and Krathum Lom were at the centre of clashes between guards and some 200 residents of Don Wai Floating Market and Tambon Bang Rateuk. The protesters breached the embankment, which they claimed had caused 1.5-metre-deep floodwaters at the floating market and Tambon Bang Rateuk. The economic area is forecast to be submerged in two to three days.

http://www.thaivisa....72#entry4814772

Edited November 2, 2011 by whybother

[sparebox2]

Some of the government thinking about this is a little backward. Save the downtown businesses at the expense of the residential and neighborhood commerical areas. Makes sense, right...the 'heart' of the city and it's economic engine?

Yes, but.....don't the downtown businesses have more resources and money to repair and reconstruct than individuals homeowners and small businesses? The big malls and businesses downtown are more likely to be insured, also. Also, if you lose a business, okay, you lose a business and you come in and work until it is up and running again. But if you lose your home and your neighborhood, it is much more difficult to cope and stay focussed on moving forward.

There's a bit of the same mentality here as in the US where banks 'too big to fail' were bailed out by taxpayers, but the taxpayers got screwed. For instance, my bank, Chase, got billions in bailout funds. However, during 2011, Chase plead guilty in two separate court cases for it's business practices and paid millions of dollars in fines. But, I digress.

The businesses downtown are simply more able to rebound from a disaster or flood, in this case, than individuals and small businesses.

A lot of people live in central Bangkok. How do you provide them relief if they're stuck in a metre or 2 of water?

2.5 - 3 million already affected by the floods. If central Bangkok was seriously flooded, you could double or triple that.

What should Bangkok people be immune? Bangkok people pay special tax?