Ok Lets Help " Bigdod " Build His House.

[Kwasaki]

Apart from helping with his ears getting stick from the lovely little Mrs, here's a start.

Still need some plans on what you want to build " Bigdod " ?, your ground is good to go, set out for house foundation required and here's a start diagram.

This is the basics, ready made or DIY the same applies.

foundation.bmp

Edited November 1, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Kwasaki]

Hope you don't mind I thought it better you have your own thread, otherwise you may get lost in the other one, the situation so far :-

bigdod, on 2011-10-30 23:52:07, answer:

1. The land to build on is up a couple of metres up from the blacktop and then another metre or so down the other side to the rice paddy.

2. The water well has been drilled and water established the guy had to drill through mostly rock to get to it.

Looks like your good to go.

bigdod.

1. Its not all sweetness & light.... water pools down beside the blacktop and recently its been a quagmire there...so I'm thinking about digging it down and back filling with a couple of feet of hardcore to toughen it up

2. Pretty much....I'm quietly confident about that....

bigdod.

( a ) I fancy a single storey house but raised up a metre or so, so that there's air gap below which should also assist with plumbing etc....

( b ) Plans.....aha, I need someone that can first decipher beer mat sketches.....

( c ) Electric supply :- There is a point I can tie into about 350/400m up the road. Got a reasonable quote to take care of that too (40k all in).

( d ) How far in does the copper rod need to go....any idea...??

( e ) I'm guessing here too that I need to wire the place up with earths to all the outlets etc even though nothing you can buy here is earthed...?? I need to read up a bit on this too now you come to mention it.....

cheers everyone for your input......keep it coming.

Blacktop just to confirm, you mean roadway.

Backfill for the time being will be fine, especially when you will have vehicle backing up delivering materials, and you can leave the a reinforced concrete slope and drive until last and can be done in your own time.

( a ) A single storey house will be more straight forward, there are so much preformed material and new materials like blocks etc mentioned in the other column thread, it's all about quantifying and budgeting for costs.

Wanting it raised is not a problem just addition work, It's really a case of using ready made products or doing labour intensive build with cheap materials.

( b ) Basically plans are just about style of the outer wall plan shape and the amount of rooms required within e.g. Square, ' L ' shape, Thai style, European style, etc.

( c ) Sounds good, you have your electric supply sorted out for installing your house wiring.

( d ) You can buy a 1.8M copper grounding rod and drive it into the ground leaving 100mm above ground in a suitable place near to where the house distribution box for your electric wiring supplies are going to be.

( e ) Yeah !! you can do that from the Distribution box connected to the grounding rod. Best look ear :- http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/

There must be guys near you that can help you with where to shop.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Kwasaki]

Couple of pictures last one a divorce I would think.

[blueandbrown]

Hope you don't mind I thought it better you have your own thread, otherwise you may get lost in the other one, the situation so far :-

bigdod, on 2011-10-30 23:52:07, answer:

1. The land to build on is up a couple of metres up from the blacktop and then another metre or so down the other side to the rice paddy.

2. The water well has been drilled and water established the guy had to drill through mostly rock to get to it.

Looks like your good to go.

bigdod.

1. Its not all sweetness & light.... water pools down beside the blacktop and recently its been a quagmire there...so I'm thinking about digging it down and back filling with a couple of feet of hardcore to toughen it up

2. Pretty much....I'm quietly confident about that....

bigdod.

( a ) I fancy a single storey house but raised up a metre or so, so that there's air gap below which should also assist with plumbing etc....

( b ) Plans.....aha, I need someone that can first decipher beer mat sketches.....

( c ) Electric supply :- There is a point I can tie into about 350/400m up the road. Got a reasonable quote to take care of that too (40k all in).

( d ) How far in does the copper rod need to go....any idea...??

( e ) I'm guessing here too that I need to wire the place up with earths to all the outlets etc even though nothing you can buy here is earthed...?? I need to read up a bit on this too now you come to mention it.....

cheers everyone for your input......keep it coming.

Blacktop just to confirm, you mean roadway.

Backfill for the time being will be fine, especially when you will have vehicle backing up delivering materials, and you can leave the a reinforced concrete slope and drive until last and can be done in your own time.

( a ) A single storey house will be more straight forward, there are so much preformed material and new materials like blocks etc mentioned in the other column thread, it's all about quantifying and budgeting for costs.

Wanting it raised is not a problem just addition work, It's really a case of using ready made products or doing labour intensive build with cheap materials.

( b ) Basically plans are just about style of the outer wall plan shape and the amount of rooms required within e.g. Square, ' L ' shape, Thai style, European style, etc.

( c ) Sounds good, you have your electric supply sorted out for installing your house wiring.

( d ) You can buy a 1.8M copper grounding rod and drive it into the ground leaving 100mm above ground in a suitable place near to where the house distribution box for your electric wiring supplies are going to be.

( e ) Yeah !! you can do that from the Distribution box connected to the grounding rod. Best look ear :- http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/

There must be guys near you that can help you with where to shop.

Yeah glad to hear you have seperate thread now big cos I have given up on the other one already I was confused as to who was speaking to who

Ill see how I go and suck it and see as they say.

[bigdod]

Kwasaki...... new thread was a brilliant idea I reckon..... and maybe 'small lady' will ease up on my ears a bit too now that she can see I'm on the case albeit with a little help that is....!! Incidentally, I reckon that third house pic is probably the one most within my capabilities but at the same time the one most likely to see me found floating face down in the mire at the bottom of the garden were I to suggest it

[bigdod]

Yeah....me too blue....I was starting to get a bit confused there myself. I guess 'too many cooks' do actually spoil the broth.....

I reckon I'll be doing much the same.....I'll get as gen'd up as I can and then just get torn into it I suppose

[bigdod]

Yup Kwasaki.....blacktop = tarmac road. The idea of the hardcore infill was for exactly that reason mate......when the guy came to dig that waterwell, he had all sorts of trouble getting his small truck in, and it was still relatively dry(ish) then. So my plan is to dig down a few feet...I can use the soil to fill in a low spot too which is a result in itself....and then just top it up with hardcore....and as you say, once it comes to finishing it later on, I'll just concrete on top of it which should make for a nice solid driveway too......

a) I realise that raising the house up a bit is going to add to the cost, but I think in the long run it may not be such a bad idea.....but again I'll do some more homework and see whats for the best.....whole point is I just want to get it right first time and not have to go fixing all the shortcuts a couple of years down the road - and of course cost is going to play a big part in all of the decisions, but I think if I make them informedly, then I should be ok..... first step on that point is to weigh up the pro's and con's of the materials available I guess.

b)Plans......back to the beer mat again I'll maybe have to get all technical and go for paper and pencil next I suppose.....

c) Electricity may not be an issue.....but then again, TiT...

d) Got it..... I'll manage that I reckon

e) I did once rewire a cottage back in the UK using nothing but a Readers Digest book for reference and got a mate that worked for the electricity board to test it all and hook up the power... so I'll maybe have a go at it again and see what happens....That wiring link was REALLY helpful.... cheers for that....:jap:

I've already been speaking to a few guys about where to shop etc and got a few good leads to look into when I get home next week (I'm in Iraq workin just now) apparently there are a few good places in Korat, Khon Kaen and Udon so I'll have a wee drive around and see.....

[Kwasaki]

Maybe 'small lady' will ease up on my ears a bit too now that she can see I'm on the case

Funny you saying about Iraq, reminded me of what you first said about your Mrs and putting two bricks together, the way the Arabs doctor there Camels, is while the poor buggers balls are hanging down, they get two bricks and whack them together with the balls in-between and get out of the way quickly.

As if you say your ground is good and solid as it sounds, your foundation work should be made easy and can keep this thread for reference.

I'll post a couple of sketches to just give some insight and ideas towards your first step into foundation.

Oh ! and while I remember you sound like someone who likes to do things for himself as much as possible, so here's this for the record.

If you don't use a ready-mix company to deliver, this is for a strong 1 cubic metre measurement of ready-mix :-

350 kg of good quality cement for a concrete mix. - - - 700 kg of Fine aggregate (sand) - - - 1100 kg of Coarse Aggregate (gravel) - - - 190 kg Water i.e. (190 litres) that's what I like about metric measure same, same. Note that too much water will weaken the mix and ideally the temperature don't want to be much above 26 degrees and keep the Sun from drying it off too quickly, cover with your Mrs white bed sheets. that was a joke by the way.

Your foundation depth can be as low as 400mm depth for a single storey on good compacted ground.

Once your at ground level you can use what you like for elevation height, here's something to ponder on and I am drawing an end floor abutment, I'll post later.

Click on the main one to bring it up larger.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Kwasaki

[bigdod]

Maybe 'small lady' will ease up on my ears a bit too now that she can see I'm on the case

Funny you saying about Iraq, reminded me of what you first said about your Mrs and putting two bricks together, the way the Arabs doctor there Camels, is while the poor buggers balls are hanging down, they get two bricks and whack them together with the balls in-between and get out of the way quickly.

As if you say your ground is good and solid as it sounds, your foundation work should be made easy and can keep this thread for reference.

I'll post a couple of sketches to just give some insight and ideas towards your first step into foundation.

Oh ! and while I remember you sound like someone who likes to do things for himself as much as possible, so here's this for the record.

If you don't use a ready-mix company to deliver, this is for a strong 1 cubic metre measurement of ready-mix :-

350 kg of good quality cement for a concrete mix. - - - 700 kg of Fine aggregate (sand) - - - 1100 kg of Coarse Aggregate (gravel) - - - 190 kg Water i.e. (190 litres) that's what I like about metric measure same, same. Note that too much water will weaken the mix and ideally the temperature don't want to be much above 26 degrees and keep the Sun from drying it off too quickly, cover with your Mrs white bed sheets. that was a joke by the way.

Your foundation depth can be as low as 400mm depth for a single storey on good compacted ground.

Once your at ground level you can use what you like for elevation height, here's something to ponder on and I am drawing an end floor abutment, I'll post later.

Click on the main one to bring it up larger.

Oh Jeeziz Christ Kwasaki....dont go givin her ideas....it'll be me gettin the bricks and not the camel

I think now the first thing will be to get hold of someone that knows about this sorta thing and figure out just how good the ground really is before I go committing to a particular way ahead....but for sure I've got a folder with all the stuff you've given me already on my desktop.....and everything else you can give me will be going straight in there along with everythin else..... you've pretty much hit the nail on the head as it happens.....I'm game to have a go at anything. Its all just a case of findin out exactly what you need to do and then getting yer sleeves rolled up and getting into it.... and of course knowing when you're out of your league and lettin the craftsmen do their thing.... I do actually need to get myself tooled up now you come to mention it, and I was thinkin about gettin myself a hold of a wee half bag mixer to be going on with, coz I reckon it'll earn its keep this next year or so... so that recipe is in the folder as well

Dont mention white bed sheets to her either mate..... they got used to polish my bike hahahaha.... actually, thats a lie...they weren't white hahaha although she was actually alright about it....eventually

cheers for all the info Kwasaki....you'll hafta fire round for an ale when we get to the 1st post mate....:jap:

[T_Dog]

Here are are some footing plan photos for reference for a two story house. The bit maps Kwasaki put together look fine for a single story house. I think a lot of people are curious about a topic like this. By the way, the local tessabann or arbotor offices also have architects and engineers on staff that can be quite competent, depending on where you live. They can put together a plan that suits the local area and is understandable by local work crews. I was very happy on how they "over-designed" our plan and considered our lay of the land.

[Kwasaki]

Here are are some footing plan photos for reference for a two story house. By the way, the local tessabann or arbotor offices also have architects and engineers on staff that can be quite competent, depending on where you live. They can put together a plan that suits the local area and is understandable by local work crews.

I was very happy on how they "over-designed" our plan and considered our lay of the land.

Good info " T_Dog " on locals offices being able to help with knowledge of land within an area of where people want to build.

Any plans and details are good to have for reference, and you say " over-designed " but over is very good, you could build another floor if you wanted for any future extended family members.

Similar to my first post where a sketch on reinforced site constructed columns of our house.

foundation.bmp

Edited November 6, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Litlos]

Have a look at this thread as there is some good references for existing plans from a couple of posters. if mentioned already, sorry, better to have twice than not at all.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/501023-house-plans/

There are a couple of other sites in Thailand as well that have a lot of information on building in LOS. These are freebeerforyorky and coolthaihouse. Google them and you will find them. I was toying with the idea of building , but mostly where I was looking is now under water. Back to the drawing board and at least I had not outlayed any funds.

Best of luck and keep the humour up, as from what I have seen with others you will need a sense of humour building in Thailand.

Cheers

[Kwasaki]

Have a look at this thread as there is some good references for existing plans from a couple of posters. if mentioned already, sorry, better to have twice than not at all.

http://www.thaivisa....23-house-plans/

There are a couple of other sites in Thailand as well that have a lot of information on building in LOS. These are freebeerforyorky and coolthaihouse. Google them and you will find them. I was toying with the idea of building , but mostly where I was looking is now under water. Back to the drawing board and at least I had not outlayed any funds.

Best of luck and keep the humour up, as from what I have seen with others you will need a sense of humour building in Thailand.

Cheers

Well not mentioned here where it's needed, that is apsolutly fantastic house plans information " Litlos " a great leap forward in infomation for " bigdod " .

Hope you find a suitable place to build if you go ahead.

After the Thai wood house we had before fell down in flooding at the rear, we have a 2 metre land infill before we rebuilt.

We are nearly 1.5 M above our side road.

[bigdod]

Here are are some footing plan photos for reference for a two story house. The bit maps Kwasaki put together look fine for a single story house. I think a lot of people are curious about a topic like this. By the way, the local tessabann or arbotor offices also have architects and engineers on staff that can be quite competent, depending on where you live. They can put together a plan that suits the local area and is understandable by local work crews. I was very happy on how they "over-designed" our plan and considered our lay of the land.

Have a look at this thread as there is some good references for existing plans from a couple of posters. if mentioned already, sorry, better to have twice than not at all.

http://www.thaivisa....23-house-plans/

There are a couple of other sites in Thailand as well that have a lot of information on building in LOS. These are freebeerforyorky and coolthaihouse. Google them and you will find them. I was toying with the idea of building , but mostly where I was looking is now under water. Back to the drawing board and at least I had not outlayed any funds.

Best of luck and keep the humour up, as from what I have seen with others you will need a sense of humour building in Thailand.

Cheers

T-Dog, Litlos...

thanks for your information guys..... much appreciated...!!

I dont know if you've guessed it yet, but I'm new to this building game and Kwasaki has been helping me out with some info/ideas for a build that I'm aiming to embark upon some time in the future.....so any ideas etc that you can help me out with will be much appreciated.....so cheers for your input :jap:

[bigdod]

Have a look at this thread as there is some good references for existing plans from a couple of posters. if mentioned already, sorry, better to have twice than not at all.

http://www.thaivisa....23-house-plans/

There are a couple of other sites in Thailand as well that have a lot of information on building in LOS. These are freebeerforyorky and coolthaihouse. Google them and you will find them. I was toying with the idea of building , but mostly where I was looking is now under water. Back to the drawing board and at least I had not outlayed any funds.

Best of luck and keep the humour up, as from what I have seen with others you will need a sense of humour building in Thailand.

Cheers

Well not mentioned here where it's needed, that is apsolutly fantastic house plans information " Litlos " a great leap forward in infomation for " bigdod " .

Hope you find a suitable place to build if you go ahead.

After the Thai wood house we had before fell down in flooding at the rear, we have a 2 metre land infill before we rebuilt.

We are nearly 1.5 M above our side road.

AHA..... so you are talking from experience. No so good that you had your house fall down on you mate, but I suppose the upside (if there is such a thing as an upside to yer house fallin down....) is that at least you were prepared for the flooding this time around....

Looks like your idea of the new thread is paying off too..... I've learned more this past couple of days than I have in the past 6 months.....

[Kwasaki]

AHA..... so you are talking from experience. No so good that you had your house fall down on you mate, but I suppose the upside (if there is such a thing as an upside to yer house fallin down....) is that at least you were prepared for the flooding this time around....

Looks like your idea of the new thread is paying off too..... I've learned more this past couple of days than I have in the past 6 months.....

You've had some great info here, there's only one dimension that I have'nt seen mentioned on plans that I've been looking at so far, and I didn't put it myself in the first sketch, it's of some importants so I will put another simple sketch to explain.

Well ! experienced yes, saw a lot of cowboys in my day, I was in the building game in the UK for 35 years, was glad to get out, it's gone crazy with regs, hence the decision on early retirement..

We don't get flooding here it our village unless it's invited like the way our first house was situation before, it flooded because basically we were lower than the side road and heavy rain would form a pond at the rear.

it was built by a local builder in the village, some 27 years ago and it was OK, all built in hard wood, would cost a fortune now, it was my Mrs place when she was married before.

We used nearly all the wood from it, on our internal staircase and wood flooring for the 1st floor areas.

We used all the windows and shutters from it too for the new house, it's nothing flash but I like it, the Mrs chose what I would call a Scandinavian style.

Reinforcement column and beam dimentions.bmp

Edited November 6, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Litlos]

Well I hope the previous information has given the project a kick start, sounds like it has. Now comes the problem of sorting through the dross and inaccurate information to find the valuable nuggets. Several of the posts I have followed have been kind enough to detail the plans and then later explain why that plan was aborted or failed which are a great learning resource.

There is a common theme running through all the posts I have looked at and that is you need someone Thai with your best interests at heart negotiating prices, otherwise you are going to learn that there really is a two tier pricing system in Thailand, and it is almost a national sport to rip off the unknowing. This is not exclusive to Thailand either, just seems to be practiced with a bit more vigour here.

Two other areas of special interest seem to be electrics and waste water. Earthing and circuit protection on the electrics. Vents, tank design, bend radius and fall of piping to tanks on the waste water side. Both these areas need to be right first up as hard to rectify later and out of sight does not necessarily equate to out of mind if these are wrong.

The attached file is my brief notes that I have been compiling and is really a set of reminders based on good points noted elsewhere and my experiences in doing an owner builder before. There is a reference in there to a floorplan designer. On a slow internet connection it is hard to use and I am not sure if I have the time to fiddle with it and learn the finer points. I suspect a several large sheet of paper and a pencil will end up being the "sketching" method used and hand over to someone who is a guru to do the CAD work.

Cheers

House design 101.pdf

[Kwasaki]

You make some good points " Litlos " but methodically step by step is the best way to go if you DIY.

His got to sort the type of house plan he wants yet, from the beer mats he could go with any floor plans and add or deduct to achieve what he wants.

I think his Mrs will be doing the negotiating and he can do what did let her go in and I stayed in the car ducked down until she did the deal.

His done his inquiries on main supply, and wiring the house IMO will be easy doing it step by step.

His got his water sorted from " Well " source and just needs a filter system, an electric pump and maybe a storage tank would been a good thing to have too.

A large septic tank in the ground for waste will be OK but not next to the " Well ".

Falls shouldn't be a problem it just common sense really and with him wanted the house elevated it will overcome any " fall " requirements.

Regards K

[Kwasaki]

Just another additional sketch for build, foundation columns for elevation, beams for floor and wall bearing.

Foundation plan.bmp

[bigdod]

Hey guys - sorry about the big delay in replying there - I got stuck in Dubai for a week on my way home (work...they always like their pound of flesh before letting me off on fieldbreak...!!!) and then it was straight into it once I got here I guess 'Small Lady' was concerned I got bored so had it all planned out for me

First up, thanks again for all of your help - I've already been discussing all of this with prospective builders etc using your advice as illustrations and they've been really helpful.

State of play so far is that now I've got the land all cleared, filled in and levelled (you should see some of the monster boulders we've had to pull out......incredible...!!) I've layed an 18" concrete pipe along the front of the plot to help with the drainage and already it appears to be going what was intended of it. Power cables have been hooked up, run to the plot and terminated for the time being. Her ladyship wanted a small shop built, so I've decided to build this first for a couple of reasons. I reckon that it'll be good experience for me and the lessons I learn from doing this will benefit the house when I come to build it. Also, I'll build that with a room on the back, so we can live there while the house is being built, so no more rent to pay, security for the shop and we're there for the entire duration of the house build. Also I get my garage built so I can get on with my other passion - custom motorcycles - before the house goes up. Result...!!

I've spoken with some chap from the local "office" who as it turns out is the "engineer" for the village/area/whatever and he's now in the process of taking my "drawings" for the shop from the beer mat and transferring them into CAD. Allegedly I'll get about half a dozen or so sheets detailing everything including the water, power, building materials et al. If he does OK with this, then I'll maybe start talking to him about the house too at a later date, but I'm pretty hopeful of him as he was showing me a bunch of other projects he's worked on and is doing at persent and he seems to know his stuff. All this for a couple of thousand baht and a case of beer (which I have to drink with him). Another result...!

Small Lady's father also brought down a friend of his who is a builder and has worked in Korea, Japan and Taiwan as well as all over Thailand and has a very good understanding of 'farang' building requirements. He understood all of the drawings etc which you guys have so kindly sent me as well as my beer mat drawings and even discussed such detail as rebar and concrete recipe with me, so again, I'm quietly confident that he does indeed know what he's talking about and as he's a family friend, gave Small Lady & pops a fair price for the construction, which it must be said, was pretty much bang on what the engineer had since told me I'd be expecting to pay for the project, so I'm happy about that too. I will of course get another few quotes just to be sure, but so far, its looking pretty good. He even told me that he cant do electrics which I found quite heartening, as usually they'll always just say 'no problem' and then mess it up. Another result perhaps....?

I've also been trailed around all sorts of building supplies places this past couple of weeks in and around Khon Kaen and Korat and have another couple to check out up in Udon Thani maybe later this week, so I think I've got a fair idea now about windows, doors, electricals etc etc too. All I can say is thank god for my new GPS.....its been great. Taken me right to every front door every time.

I've to go pick up my drawings etc tomorrow, so I'll let you know how that turns out. :jap:

[Kwasaki]

I've to go pick up my drawings etc tomorrow, so I'll let you know how that turns out.

That will be good, any chance of taking a picture and posting drawing details.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Kwasaki

[bigdod]

Sure thing mate..... here's a couple of pix of the place before and after. Once I get the drawings I'll see what I can do about posting them too.

[Kwasaki]

Sure thing mate..... here's a couple of pix of the place before and after. Once I get the drawings I'll see what I can do about posting them too.

Can't see any prospective customers for the shop around.

Anyhow jokes apart some to bear in mind, which didn't happen to me but worth a thought.

Another thread was going on about electricity costs and Crossy suggested :-

Are you on permanent power yet?

Your construction supply is charged at nearly double the permanent rate.

[wandrinstar]

Whats all this Small Lady stuff Bigdod. We were all over six foot when we came here , but building the House wore us down six inches.. You just wait till its all finished and you get dragged to the Garden Centre. It takes at least a hour to find the Small Lady if she gets amongst the Garden Gnomes, and Cherub Fountains. Good Luck Mate, i aged ten years building ours.

[bigdod]

Sure thing mate..... here's a couple of pix of the place before and after. Once I get the drawings I'll see what I can do about posting them too.

Can't see any prospective customers for the shop around.

Anyhow jokes apart some to bear in mind, which didn't happen to me but worth a thought.

Another thread was going on about electricity costs and Crossy suggested :-

Are you on permanent power yet?

Your construction supply is charged at nearly double the permanent rate.

I dont mind about the customers mate....as long as it keeps her busy

Actually, that said, there's like a staging post or whatever for all the suger cane farmed locally just up the road, so she's hoping to capture all the traffic from that. Time will tell I guess....

No one ever mentioned to me that there was a difference between construction and permanent power supply either....nice one Kwasaki, another useful bit of info for my sh*tlist....

We're off to the temple later today to see when's a good day to start building.....so this ought to be interesting

[bigdod]

Whats all this Small Lady stuff Bigdod. We were all over six foot when we came here , but building the House wore us down six inches.. You just wait till its all finished and you get dragged to the Garden Centre. It takes at least a hour to find the Small Lady if she gets amongst the Garden Gnomes, and Cherub Fountains. Good Luck Mate, i aged ten years building ours.

hahahaha I hear ya mate.....I've already fallen into the trap of taking her shopping for flowers etc

I can already tell its going to be an 'experience' taking this on too, but whats life without the odd wee challenge I suppose

[bigdod]

Just wondering if any of the contributors are still around...?

[rhodie]

39 minutes ago, bigdod said:

Just wondering if any of the contributors are still around...?

An update would be great. ????

[bigdod]

Hi rhodie... its been a while since Ive been on here, so a lot of water under the bridge...but for sure Id be happy to update on this... its been a bit of a saga and still not all the way there yet, but i can see the light at the end of the tunnel now...

[Crossy]

On 6/2/2019 at 3:20 PM, bigdod said:

but i can see the light at the end of the tunnel now...

 

Of course that could be the headlamp of an oncoming train ????