Bangkok Ignored Warnings

[webfact]

'Bangkok Ignored Warnings'

By Marwaan Macan-Markar

BANGKOK, Nov 03, 2011 (IPS) - This sinking mega-city’s eight million people are paying the price of ignoring warnings over many years concerning its climate vulnerability and the incapacity of its soggy foundations to handle flooding.

For over a week now large swathes of the Thai capital, built on a flat marshy delta with some sections below sea level, have been submerged by floodwaters. Streets have turned into rivers, with boats and bamboo rafts ferrying desperate families.

Only the upper floors of houses, factories and shopping malls are now visible with no sign of the waters receding in the next few weeks.

Anupong Taduon, scratches his head for answers to a deluge that has affected thousands. "The water level has not dropped since the first day," says the 52-year-old from behind the sandbagged entrance to his karaoke bar. "We may have to live like this for three or four weeks."

Warnings by the kingdom’s central government and local authorities that the worst is not over are greeted with anger and frustration. It is common knowledge that this tsunami in slow motion must flow through the city before it can drain out into the Gulf of Thailand.

After all, flood management experts have warned that the city – complacent in its economic prosperity visible in the constantly changing skyline – is one of the Southeast Asian capitals most vulnerable to climate change.

"Bangkok is particularly vulnerable when compared with other cities like Manila, Jakarta or Kuala Lumpur," says Aslam Perwaiz, head of disaster risk management at the Bangkok-based Asian Disaster Preparedness Centre. "The current floods confirm concerns about the need to improve the city’s water management."

"The record of bad floods in the past show that that Bangkok’s water channels are unable to drain inundated streets and neighbourhoods for weeks," Perwaiz told IPS. "Floods have lasted for nine weeks in this city."

"Bangkok ranks first in the climate vulnerability ratings of (all provinces) in Thailand," says Hermina Francisco, director of the Economy and Environment Programme for Southeast Asia, a Singapore-based research group. "The high degree of vulnerability of Bangkok is due largely to high exposure to frequent flooding and sea-level rises." [more...]

Full story: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=105714

-- ipsnews.net 2011-11-03

[RedRoadRunner]

wrongly expressed...!!!

the people have to pay for the mistakes the government(s) have made in the past.......and no savior in sight !!!!

[skippybangkok]

Their always good at predicting after it happens.........

[schuimpje]

Utter rubbish.. Bangkok flooding did not start until just over 1 week ago. Tells you already it's not worth reading the rest.Garbage journalism.

[travelmann]

Told yer "not our fault" its climate change, yep sounds about right

[travelmann]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

[petedk]

Utter rubbish.. Bangkok flooding did not start until just over 1 week ago. Tells you already it's not worth reading the rest.Garbage journalism.

I saw the speech on television an hour or so ago telling the government to protect Bangkok from future floods.

The speech was made 20 years ago but it seems nothing was ever done.

[noitom]

Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Sound familiar?

[R123]

"This sinking mega-city’s eight million people are paying the price of ignoring warnings"

In otherwords blame 8 million people for these floods; we should have forseen the dangers. I see. Same like blame the whole world when aliens invade this planet as we ignored all the signs especially from those from making sci fi B pics.

Hmm................

[h90]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

Why not load it in container and sale it to countries with too less water? Most is anyway close to the airport so Thai Air could fly it to Dubai.

[DocN]

Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Sound familiar?

Sounds more like Idiocracy...

[impulse]

The price of living near the water (and building below sea level) is occasional flooding. Just ask New Orleans. The price of living on the Pacific rim is an occasional, tragic, earthquake and tsunami. Just ask Japan. The price of living in the Midwest USA is an occasional tornado. Just ask Oklahoma. The price of living in the desert is an occasional sandstorm.

Bangkok was poorly prepared. So was Japan. So was New Orleans and on and on. Life is full of risks, compromise and trade-offs. Just like buying insurance, you can go broke preparing for every possible disaster, then get hit by a freak tsunami or have a couple of jets crash into your high rises. I don't think Bangkok "ignored" the warnings. I think they heard them, considered them, then bet the other way. Maybe they won the bet maybe they lost, but not 1/100 the amount that Wall Street geniuses did when they knew the risks and bet the other way.

Edited November 3, 2011 by impulse

[starguard69]

The price of living near the water (and building below sea level) is occasional flooding. Just ask New Orleans. The price of living on the Pacific rim is an occasional, tragic, earthquake and tsunami. Just ask Japan. The price of living in the Midwest USA is an occasional tornado. Just ask Oklahoma. The price of living in the desert is an occasional sandstorm.

Bangkok was poorly prepared. So was Japan. So was New Orleans and on and on. Life is full of risks, compromise and trade-offs. Just like buying insurance, you can go broke preparing for every possible disaster, then get hit by a freak tsunami or have a couple of jets crash into your high rises. I don't think Bangkok "ignored" the warnings. I think they heard them, considered them, then bet the other way. Maybe they won the bet maybe they lost, but not 1/100 the amount that Wall Street geniuses did when they knew the risks and bet the other way.

Oklahoma is not one of the midwestern states. It is the one of the plain states. You forget one thing. Some people do not have the luxury of choosing where they live. In each place that you mentioned, It is up to the government to alarm, protect, and come to the aid of their residents. Some governments did....some did not.

[puntmeister]

"This sinking mega-city's eight million people are paying the price of ignoring warnings"

In otherwords blame 8 million people for these floods; we should have forseen the dangers. I see. Same like blame the whole world when aliens invade this planet as we ignored all the signs especially from those from making sci fi B pics.

Hmm................

Its not that the 8 million Bangkok residents are to blame for the flood. However, the dangers WERE forseable. Even the King, in the 1970's, warned of the consequences of over-building in low lying wetlands combined with deforestation.

No one person is to blame, but successions of inaction, over decades, have left Bangkok (and other Thai cities) ill prepared. The heavy rains are a natural event - but the floods are not. (except that heavier and heavier rains can be expected due to human-induced

global warming - but can't blame the Thais for that).

The very concept of a flood is that water is somewhere where it shouldn't be. Its typical of human nature - blame the water for being where it shouldn't, instead of accepting responsibility for having built things in the path of water.

[puntmeister]

The price of living near the water (and building below sea level) is occasional flooding. Just ask New Orleans. The price of living on the Pacific rim is an occasional, tragic, earthquake and tsunami. Just ask Japan. The price of living in the Midwest USA is an occasional tornado. Just ask Oklahoma. The price of living in the desert is an occasional sandstorm.

Bangkok was poorly prepared. So was Japan. So was New Orleans and on and on. Life is full of risks, compromise and trade-offs. Just like buying insurance, you can go broke preparing for every possible disaster, then get hit by a freak tsunami or have a couple of jets crash into your high rises. I don't think Bangkok "ignored" the warnings. I think they heard them, considered them, then bet the other way. Maybe they won the bet maybe they lost, but not 1/100 the amount that Wall Street geniuses did when they knew the risks and bet the other way.

I understand your point, but the comparances aren't perfect - gotta consider some nuances.

The comparison with New Orleans is accurate - building so heavily on such low lying, flood prone land was irresponsible (especially considering the land is known to actually sink over time - long term, New Orleans is absolutely doomed).

The comparison fails with earthquakes and tsunamis - both of which are very tough to predict, and neither of which is induced by humanity.

Flooding is another story. Rainful is relatively uncontrollable, akin to earthquakes and tsunamis. However, rainfal is predictable (heavy rains in Thailand, I can assure you, are nothing new). To boot, you have to differentiate between heavy rains,

a natural event, and flooding. The floods are a result of deforestation (trees absorb vast amounts of water) as well as building in low lying flood planes. Both could have been better managed, greatly reducing the knock-on effect of heavy rains.

[Bpuumike]

"Only the upper floors of houses, factories and shopping malls are now visible with no sign of the waters receding in the next few weeks."

This is just sensationalism and cannot be dignified with the description of journalism. It very misleadingly gives the impression that the entire city is flooded, and to some depth.

Pure fiction, and a pity his readers can't be alerted to that.

[marinediscoking]

I know this 80 year old thai lady who bought vacant land in bangkok a little over 50 years ago in the china town area. She bought it because it was cheap and thought it might be unusable because it was a wet marsh. Sure enough some one came along and wanted to lease it and build on it, she still owns that land today and has made a fortune on it.

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

[alexakap]

Bangkok Ignored Warnings

Then they gonna pay for this decision (and that will be expencive!)

[sirchai]

Their always good at predicting after it happens.........

But they do have good ideas to attract tourists after all................ ( Could be Ying..)

[sirchai]

Bangkok Ignored Warnings

Then they gonna pay for this decision (and that will be expencive!)

It will be more than expensive and all- even the so called uneducated Thais- will understand that you can't sell an old car as a new one...

[sirchai]

I know this 80 year old thai lady who bought vacant land in bangkok a little over 50 years ago in the china town area. She bought it because it was cheap and thought it might be unusable because it was a wet marsh. Sure enough some one came along and wanted to lease it and build on it, she still owns that land today and has made a fortune on it.

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

You do not have to go that far. Just get married and have a date with another girl. What will happen?...

[w11guy]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

[elcent]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

Tokyo has a huge underground storage for floods. Ask there. I saw some images the other day, really impressive.

[w11guy]

I don't think they ignored the warnings. The heard them and decided it was worth the risk. The amount of damage is a tiny, tiny fraction of the money made in Bangkok over the years. So the decision was correct from that point of view. If you don't have much money and are offered cheap land that someone says may flood in future, what should you do? The obvious answer is to take the risk because you can't afford the expensive land that won't flood. Everything in life is a trade-off. Nothing is risk-free. You judge the risks and act accordingly.

Edited November 3, 2011 by w11guy

[puntmeister]

I know this 80 year old thai lady who bought vacant land in bangkok a little over 50 years ago in the china town area. She bought it because it was cheap and thought it might be unusable because it was a wet marsh. Sure enough some one came along and wanted to lease it and build on it, she still owns that land today and has made a fortune on it.

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

Was that around the same time that he opted to build the new airport smack dab in the middle of the flood runoff area?

Normally I defend the guy, against all the hard-core conspiracy types anyway. But that decision was one where the government is guilty of exacerbating the flood problems.

[ratcatcher]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

Didn't you know there are already a lot of A.S.S. Holes in and around the city, some are even being used to control the flooding.

(A.S.S = Aquifer Storage System)

[DocN]

I know this 80 year old thai lady who bought vacant land in bangkok a little over 50 years ago in the china town area. She bought it because it was cheap and thought it might be unusable because it was a wet marsh. Sure enough some one came along and wanted to lease it and build on it, she still owns that land today and has made a fortune on it.

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

Was that around the same time that he opted to build the new airport smack dab in the middle of the flood runoff area?

Normally I defend the guy, against all the hard-core conspiracy types anyway. But that decision was one where the government is guilty of exacerbating the flood problems.

If I am right informed, plans for Swampy were made in the 70's, when he was a small police officer. I think, you can not really blame that on him...not even his worst enemies can.

[marinediscoking]

That solution might work for a heavy rain storm but I don't think those could house the amount of water currently inundating bangkok now. Also Tokyo is not as flat as Bangkok.

[elcent]

That solution might work for a heavy rain storm but I don't think those could house the amount of water currently inundating bangkok now. Also Tokyo is not as flat as Bangkok.

I guess you're right and there will be one huge tunnel opened here in 2012.

In Tokyo they can drain 400 tons per second though

[marinediscoking]

I know this 80 year old thai lady who bought vacant land in bangkok a little over 50 years ago in the china town area. She bought it because it was cheap and thought it might be unusable because it was a wet marsh. Sure enough some one came along and wanted to lease it and build on it, she still owns that land today and has made a fortune on it.

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

Was that around the same time that he opted to build the new airport smack dab in the middle of the flood runoff area?

Normally I defend the guy, against all the hard-core conspiracy types anyway. But that decision was one where the government is guilty of exacerbating the flood problems.

Just think if they did not build Swampy airport, Don Muang is flooded now. There is now way even if that land was vacant could it prevent the flooding happening now.

There are many flood plains all along the Mississpi River and it still floods. Man has still not developed a flood prof system anywhere in the world.