Visiters Visa For G/f

[nmac1106]

Having read most of the threads on this forum and visited the UK gov. visa site, I am clear about most of the requirements to obtain a visitor's visa for my G/F.

However I think that the "Reason to return" might cause us a problem. We met when shee was working in a bar, although now she has left, told me she never liked the job, and gone back to her family and is now happy but poor working in the paddy fields again. I have no reason to doubt this. We have not known each other long, only 3 months.

The above circumstances, I think would have the ECO immediatly rejecting her application. No money, no steady employment, no property, no reason to return, no chance!! G/F has son of 5 years old, but I believe this is not concidered as a good reason to return.

Are we wasting our time applying or is there anything any-one can suggest as it is very important for both of us.

Also I note Siam International Legal group offers a service for £245 is this a good idea or do they just complete the forms on your behalf?

Thanks for any help/ advice

Neil

[the scouser]

Hi Neil,

From the circumstances you've outlined, my opinion is that your g/f would find it, if not impossible, difficult to get a visit visa. As well as assessing her situation in Thailand, the visa officer would also look at such factors as how long you've known each other and, of that, how long you've actually spent in each other's company. Your g/f would also be expected to have a sound knowledge of you and your life in the UK.

My advice would be to take the time to deepen and strengthen your relationship before applying for a visit visa, and, if possible, for your g/f to perhaps get a job locally.

I can't comment on Siam Legal's skills, as I have never had any dealings with them.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Mighty Mouse]

You'll never know unless you apply.

Knowing each other for only three months is the hurdle and you will have to submit strong evidence/reasons why the relationship is genuine and likely to continue.

[GU22]

I concur with the above posts, I think you need to get to know her better and for longer. Remember, it is not your intentions that the ECO will be judging, but hers. They will have seen many cases of an unsuspecting sponsor being duped by a bar girl they've only known for a couple of months who intends to disappear and go on the game as soon as they are in the UK. I am not saying that your g/f intends to do this, but, due to the short time you have known each other, the ECO will suspect it.

Also I note Siam International Legal group offers a service for £245 is this a good idea or do they just complete the forms on your behalf?

All any agent can do is advise on filling in the forms and what supporting documents to supply. If you want to spend £245 for information you can get from the embassy website for free and advice you could get here for free, that is up to you.

[mrbojangles]

Speaking from my own experience and from many i know, I 100% agree with the advise that Scouse and GU22 have given you.

Reading your post, i think you have almost convinced yourself that the application would fail and i feel it would too. Not only would you waste the fee for the application but your GF would get an "Application Refused" put on file, which could probably hinder any future applications.

Start building up your portfolio, of contact between you and your GF and as Scouse say's "take the time to deepen and strengthen your relationship before applying for a visit visa, and, if possible, for your g/f to perhaps get a job locally"

Good luck

[nmac1106]

Thanks guys,

not what I wanted to hear, but what I suspected. My over simplified idea of getting G/F over to U.K. to get to know her better is obviously a non starter. Now I'll have to tell her the bad news, should have done the research before I suggested it.

Is there any guidelines regarding length of relationships for successful application? Also I find it difficult, for me personally, to see how a relationship can be considered continious when living thousands of miles apart. It looks like I'm going to have to find a way to spend more time in LOS. How to achieve that is probably a question for another part of the forum.

Regarding "Application Refused", do you know what information is recorded? If a later application is made would this not be seen as us having a strong and lasting relationship, or am I grasping a straws here?

Regarding G/F getting job, I'm not sure about this, she previously worked in a pan factory in Bangkok, but is happier living a simple life with her family, working in the fields for 150bahts a day.

Thanks again for your input

[Mighty Mouse]

Is there any guidelines regarding length of relationships for successful application? Also I find it difficult, for me personally, to see how a relationship can be considered continious when living thousands of miles apart. It looks like I'm going to have to find a way to spend more time in LOS. How to achieve that is probably a question for another part of the forum.

Knowing each other for two years would be a safe bet, although I know of many circumstances where tourist visas have been granted for much shorter relationships.

A relationship is considered "continuous" by the amount of emails, letters, telephone calls etc. that are exchanged between the both of you. Keep all of these as evidence. If you use international telephone cards to make your calls, keep them too.

Rather than make your final decision from our opinions (and that's all they are) why not telephone, fax or email your embassy in Bangkok (or in your capital city at home) and put your questions to them.

They should be able to put you on the right path.

[Rj 81]

My G/f was recently refused a visit visa for the UK, we had known each other at the time of the visa application for 10 months. The ECO considered this to be a relatively short period of time.

My advise would be to give it a year, in the mean time your G/f could get a job (I know it's not as simple as that) and then apply. To be honest I think you would definately be wasting your time appying now.

Good luck

Rj

[GU22]

Regarding "Application Refused", do you know what information is recorded? If a later application is made would this not be seen as us having a strong and lasting relationship, or am I grasping a straws here?

Effectively, all details of the application are kept on record and this record will be checked when and if a subsequent application is made. However, unless there are major unexplained inconsistencies between what was said then and what is said now, previous applications should have no effect on a current one.

[worldfun]

I don't see the short time as problematic at all - well lets say 6-9 months 'relation' is much better than 3months, but the thing you have going for you is her son. Thats considered a fair reason to return, but her owning land even a small plot thats an added benefit. If she does own land or if she can 'get' some untill applying then all the better. A permanent job with employers letter of guarentee of work upon return generally is a sure visa

Good luck

[GU22]

but the thing you have going for you is her son. Thats considered a fair reason to return,

Many Thais travel long distances, often abroad, in order to work and send money home, leaving their children in the care of grand-parents or other relatives. The ECOs at the British embassy are well aware of this, and so leaving children behind is not considered by the ECOs as a valid reason to return.

[sua yai]

Agree with GU22's point about children. A number of years ago, my ex gf was turned down twice by The Embassy. I finally took the matter to The House of Commons through my MP. He was turned down as well. Reasons - The ECO was not satisfied that we'd known each other for the length of time stated or that she had sufficient reason to return to Thailand.

When back in Thailand I arranged an interview with the ECO (the first time I'd been to The Embassy). They wheeled the ECDirector out for me. I pointed out that the ex had provided land documents for her house and farm (all in her name). Not good enough - she didn't work on the farm. Family took care of it. Then 3 birth certificates for her children and death cert for the father. Again, not good enough as the kids didn't live with her. Again, taken care of by family. "Not sufficient reason to return".

I reckon The Embassy had made its mind up some time before and I never got the bottom of it. It's all water under the bridge now, but if they've got their suspicions, it can be very difficult to change them.

[nmac1106]

Thanks for all the advice, I had heard that children were overlooked by Embassy staff as a reason to return. I had previously asked G/F if she wouldn't miss son she answered " yes but I can phone regularly, it's not a problem", obviously quite acceptable to leave kids behind and known about by ECO's.

I think it is probably best to shelf this idea for the time being, and take an extended break in LOS instead.

Thanks again for yuor opinions.

Neil

[Ollie]

Has anybody ever successfully applied for a visitors visa for their Thai G/F???

Reading the above and the advise and feedback from previous threads, it doesn't seem like anyone will ever qualify whatever their circumstances!!!

It would be good to hear from those who were successful and what their circumstances were?

I've revised my own plans in light of the guidance from this forum - but its all pretty depressing reading.

[mrbojangles]

Has anybody ever successfully applied for a visitors visa for their Thai G/F???

Reading the above and the advise and feedback from previous threads, it doesn't seem like anyone will ever qualify whatever their circumstances!!!

It would be good to hear from those who were successful and what their circumstances were?

I've revised my own plans in light of the guidance from this forum - but its all pretty depressing reading.

Hi Ollie,

I don't know the exact breakdown of visitors Vs other types i.e. student visas but last year, there was 40,475 applications for non-settlement visas to the UK, with 32,790 granted and 2,203 refused. Therefore a 5.9% refusal rate. So, someone's getting them

Link http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pa...d=1006977150151

[GU22]

I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but I would imagine that after removing students, work permits etc., the majority of the successful were from middle to upper class Thais on organised tours and from long term girl/boyfriends of Brits.

I also suspect that the majority of the unsuccessful were bar girls sponsored by boyfriends they had known for all of 3 weeks, had no real contact with and knew virtually nothing about!

The following is a generalisation, and I am not implying anything about any specific individual. However, feel free to take offence if you wish.

Some/many/most girls working in the trade have more than one falang boyfriend. Each boyfriend is convinced that he is the one true love of her life and that she has given up the bar and is working in a beauty shop/gone home to the farm and living on the money he sends her. A significant percentage of these girls know that if they could only get a visa to Falangland, they could earn in a week what it takes them all year to earn in Thailand. All they need is someone stupid enough to be their boyfriend and sponsor them.

The ECOs at the various embassies are well aware of this, and so look with deep suspicion on any application where a male sponsor has only known his 'girlfriend' for a short time (pun intended)!

To anyone contemplating applying for a visit visa for their Thai girlfriend, be realistic. Build up a relationship over months, not weeks. Keep records of e-mails exchanged, phone calls made etc. If possible, visit her in LOS a few times. Then apply.

[mrbojangles]

No argument from me, on your summation GU22.

It is a pity though that the Visa stats, aren't at least broken down by student, work an holiday visas.

[nmac1106]

Interesting reading your post GU22, I am inclined to believe most of it too. In a way I'm now quite happy to wait a while before attempting to get visa for G/F, she has accepted this as being for the best also. I'm smiling as I type this because I know exactly what you are saying about bargirls. I did some homework before and think I was prepared for what was to come, and am still willing to accept I've got it all wrong!!

A humerous little story, I think, maybe I should keep to myself but here we go. A few day's into relationship G/F announces she would like to go shopping. ( Okay here we go I think.) But no she doesn't know where shops are, now I'm puzzled**.

To cut a long story short we end up at Big C where she picks up three 65Baht T-shirts and asks which one I like?? I had to stop smiling for long enough to tell her to take all three. I have a few stories like this that keep me smiling, but I sometimes wonder, what DOES she want from me?

Yours, sometimes puzzled, but mostly happy.

Neil

It is good to get all viewpoints positive or negative, hopefully I can make the right decisions for G/F and me.. Thanks guys.

[psb_psb]

hi all,

after reading the threads im not sure to be disheartened of optimistic..

recently i returned from Thailand and ofcouse met the most wonderful girl in samui

...yes she was working as BG but told me only for several week, i sent 12 days with this girl and think i believe her ... alto im not sitting here with my eyes shut or looking through rose coloured spectacles.

To tell you a little of the story, as i mentioned we sent 12 days together and she was ready to travel back to Bangkok with me 3 days before i left Thailand but "lady boss" made her stay for another till the end of the month of october. i left on the 27th Oct., which was a real head killer i can tell you, i only wish now i had told them to stick her 6000 thb and gave it to her myself, but there we go ,one cannot go back...

So.. true to her word a couple of days later she went home to her parents in bangkok, again i believe she is there because i can hear the gamecock and hens of the fathers when im speaking with her on the phone "MOBILE" as we asr still waiting for her land line to be connected,,, we have been in contact twice every day since,..calls which have cost me so far £700 lol but thats no matter ( its the profit to the mobile companies) i dislike especially when once the land line is connected i can ues a phone card and pay only 7.5 PENCE per min instead of 80p to BT!!

Also she had to go with her parents to obtain her passport, she has been going back to collage so she will not have to say that she had been at bar!! just hope they don't trip her up at the Embassy...

Soas it sits at the moment she now has all my details to take to the Embassy along with the letter from the school, her interview is on this Monday,

I was just wondering if i is advisable for me to phone or email the Embassy there to pledge our case?? or any other advise anyone cares to share...

My finger are tightly crossed, and i wish everyone in my position the best of luck also

peter

[GU22]

It is a pity though that the Visa stats, aren't at least broken down by student, work an holiday visas.

I've had a chance to look at the figures in more detail.

From page 42.

Visit

rec'd 35648; iss 31029; ref 1689; % ref 4.7

Family visit

rec'd 3796; iss 3332; ref 382; % ref 10.1

Work Permit

Rec'd 686; iss 606; ref 121; % ref 17.6

from Page 51.

Student

rec'd 5509; iss 4936; ref 377; % ref 6.8

Working Holiday Maker

rec'd 58; iss 52; ref 1; % ref 1.7

from page 60.

EEA Family Permit

rec'd 61; iss 59; ref 0; % ref 0

from page 33.

Appeals rec'd 122; % of refusals appealed 5.5.

from page 1

Apparent errors in arithmetic, e.g. where the total of applications issued and refused do not equal the total of applications received,

are usually for the following reasons:

•

Applications can be carried forward from one year to another before being resolved.

•

Applications may be withdrawn during processing (but still count as an application received).

•

There may be instances of appeals received being a percentage figure greater than 100% if appeals are received from the

previous financial year (but still in the time-scale permitted).

•

Posts are also required to count all applications received (a mother and three children on one passport may count as four

applications but only one entry clearance may be issued).

•

Applications can also be referred to the Home Office for a decision to be taken, or for further enquiries to be carried out, or for

Sponsors to be interviewed. In these circumstances, delays can and do occur between the application being received and a decision being taken.

I am surprised that the % refused for family visits is higher than for visits, especially as these can be appealed and ordinary visit, or tourist, visas can't. Also, most applications from girls wanting to visit their boyfriend would come under visit, not family visit.

[GU22]

Peter,

Whether or not you believe her is up to you, but there are many things in your post that make me advise caution. How many farms are there in the metropolitan Bangkok area? How many people in Bangkok don't have a landline?

On the visa front, you've only known her for 12 days, it aint going to happen! Contacting the embassy yourself will only get you the standard reply: "That will be up to the individual ECO at the time." As I said in my earlier post

Build up a relationship over months, not weeks. Keep records of e-mails exchanged, phone calls made etc. If possible, visit her in LOS a few times. Then apply.

To cut the cost of phoning her, there are many low cost providers. I use 18185.co.uk , currently 1p per minute to Thai landlines and mobiles from a BT line or 2p from NTL etc.

[psb_psb]

thankyou GU22

not the response i wished for , but i really do understand what you mean about time. you email me the advise a week or two ago and i supplied phone records email and pictures of us together.. bank statements as well as my company's bank balance

i understand that its not what i send but what the ECO makes of her, have you never heard of an application been granted first time with such a short period of time between us??

I cannot see the problem if i am paying for this persons stay with me and covering all flight arrangements.

also can you please expand on why you advise caution. as im trying to find out as much information as i can to help me understand it all better.

many many thanks pb

[GU22]

i understand that its not what i send but what the ECO makes of her, have you never heard of an application been granted first time with such a short period of time between us??

Sorry, no. As I said in my earlier post

A significant percentage of these girls know that if they could only get a visa to Falangland, they could earn in a week what it takes them all year to earn in Thailand. All they need is someone stupid enough to be their boyfriend and sponsor them.

The ECOs at the various embassies are well aware of this, and so look with deep suspicion on any application where a male sponsor has only known his 'girlfriend' for a short time

I am not saying that this is the case with your g/f, but it is what the ECO will believe, and she (not you) will have to convince them otherwise.

I cannot see the problem if i am paying for this persons stay with me and covering all flight arrangements

The problem is that the ECO will believe that soon after arriving in the UK she'll be off to a brothel somewhere! Whether the ECO believes you to be her accomplice or merely an unwitting dupe is irrelevant. It is how the ECO perceives her intentions that matters.

also can you please expand on why you advise caution

My wife is a Bangkok girl, born and bred. She says that talking on the phone to someone who is in Bangkok you are probably going to hear street sounds and traffic in the background, but gamecock and hens? Would you expect to hear farmyard noises in the background when talking on the phone to someone in London? We are both also surprised that a Bangkok family who could afford college for their daughter would not be on the phone. Many girls use this, as if calling them on a landline the area code would give the game away. Why does she need her parents to go with her for her passport? Surely she is over 18?

Still, you say her interview is on Monday, so maybe my fears are groundless and she will be successful. But how did she make an application if she doesn't have a passport yet?

[CarlBkk]

GU22 says it like it is. How many surefire bargirls/golddiggers do the Embassy staff have to go through each day? It must make them experts at instant identification and sometimes frustrated at the daft attempts for visas.

An ex-gf tried to get back to the UK a few years ago (she'd been once on a student visa...not that she studied) by claiming she had a job as a travel agent (her friend who's a boss supplied her with the documents) but the staff aren't stupid. No decent regular money coming in because she was lazy to work and applying for a 1 month holiday visa? Refusal stamp. Which will affect future applications.

I would recommend that a gf applies off her own back, and that means not using a foreigner as a sponsor. The chances of being refused a visa for a girl going in dressed for a night out, wanting to visit her "friend" for a month and claiming her day job at Robinsons is enough to come back for are large. She isn't going to fool anyone and the staff will try and find a fault with her application somewhere if they can to disprove her intentions.

An office girl with a regular income and a job she's held down for 1 year +, going in dressed smartly and wanting to visit Europe for 2 weeks holiday with a female friend is more likely to get the approval stamp than claiming she's going to visit her boyfriend. If she intends stopping in an EU country on the way then even better. If she's had a US visa before then better still.

However, you can see ex working girls in most UK towns now so they certainly get here somehow - mostly through family links or divorces after their arrival I imagine.

[nmac1106]

I think I've come to the right conclusion, yesterday I read through pages upon pages on the uk visa site http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk and some links from it and everywhere I looked "Reason to return" was quoted as good reason for refusal.

I adopted a very cynical attitude before I went to LOS, and had no intention of starting a relationship, and told G/F this, it just happened. While mainly I think she is genuine, I still worry about certain things not withstanding the fact she is 22 years my junior, not uncommon in Thai/Ferang relationships I believe. I don't yet fully understand thai values, but the fact she has been married and has a son, I think she feels less desirable, though this is not how I feel. For me this is a very steep learning curve, but the help on this forum is a great help and resource.

I'm lucky in a way that I'm going back and the intention that after visiting her village (my idea unsure if a good or bad idea??) we would go to Bangkok to apply for visa. Now that's not happening, G/F happy to wait which makes me feel better, no point in rushing things maybe the ECO's have everyones best interests in mind!!

Peter, please let us know how you get on, and good luck!

Neil

[GU22]

A very sensible attitude, Neil. The longer the relationship and the more time that you spend with her in Thailand the better. Visiting her home and meeting her parents can be daunting, just relax and go with the flow. Remember to take, or have taken, lots of photos of the two of you and her family to show to the ECO.

The more the ECO is satisfied that the relationship is genuine the better. Reason to return may still be a problem, though. However, I feel that since the 'no switching' rule came in ECOs tend to worry less about this, provided they are convinced about the relationship. May I suggest that you consider a visit for her next spring?

G/F happy to wait which makes me feel better

IMHO, an excellent indication that she is genuine! If all she wanted was a visa then she would be impatient and wanting to know why you aren't getting her one! Looks like you've found a keeper! Congrats, and best of luck for the future.