Bangkok Subway At Risk From Advancing Floods

[webfact]

Bangkok subway at risk from advancing floods

by Anusak Konglang

BANGKOK, November 4, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand's worst floods in half a century reached the edge of downtown Bangkok on Friday, threatening some underground rail stations and forcing the closure of a major shopping centre.

About 20 percent of the capital is now submerged in floodwater contaminated by rubbish, dead animals and industrial waste, raising fears about outbreaks of disease in the densely populated metropolis of 12 million people.

The slow-moving water is now just a few kilometres (miles) away from business and tourist districts, despite reassurances from the government that central Bangkok would be spared.

The floodwater arrived at the Lat Phrao intersection on the northern edge of the city centre early Friday, prompting the closure of the Central Plaza shopping mall.

A spokesman for the Bangkok metro said that three subway stations -- Lat Phrao, Phahon Yothin and Chatuchak Park -- were at risk and might have to be shut down if the water rose to 40 centimetres (16 inches) outside.

"We have deployed officials at all risk stations to assess the situation hourly," he said.

Nearby Chatuchak Weekend Market -- a popular tourist attraction -- will re-open this weekend at the request of traders, but officials have warned them to be on alert for possible flooding.

The floods -- caused by unusually heavy rains and failure to release enough water from dams in the early part of the monsoon -- have killed 442 people and damaged the homes and livelihoods of millions around the country.

The authorities have issued an evacuation order for eight Bangkok districts out of a total of 50 in the capital, and for certain areas in four others.

The 12 districts have a combined official population of 1.7 million people -- far more than government shelters can accommodate.

Many have chosen to stay in their homes despite risks including electrocution, disease and lack of food and drinking water, complicating relief efforts.

The authorities are attempting to drain the floods through waterways in the east and west of the sprawling capital and out to sea. But many roads have also become rivers as the seemingly unstoppable mass of water creeps southwards.

Worst-hit residents have complained that their homes are being sacrificed to save downtown Bangkok's shopping malls, luxury hotels and the houses of the wealthy elite, triggering protests and the destruction of some flood barriers.

The waters have swamped Bangkok's number two airport Don Mueang, which usually serves mostly domestic destinations, but the kingdom's main air gateway Suvarnabhumi east of the city centre is operating as usual.

The main airport is surrounded by a 3.5 metre high flood embankment monitored around the clock, officials told media invited to see the defences.

Suvarnabhumi general manager Somchai Sawasdeepon said the airport would put its emergency plan into effect if the water reached 2.5 metres deep.

"I believe we can evacuate all passengers and aircraft within 24 hours," he said. "Now the airport is operating normally. There are no signs that worry me. The water level also doesn't concern me."

Thai authorities failed to save a number of major industrial parks from the floods, despite earlier assurances they would be protected.

The crisis is taking its toll on the lucrative Thai tourism industry, with countries including the United States, Britain, Singapore, Canada and the Netherlands advising against all but essential travel to Bangkok.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-11-04

[wlcart]

i am more and more convinced the entire city will flood, the water just keeps coming.

[Scott]

I would think that if the subway system floods that will create one major, expensive and inconvenient mess.

[toenail]

ATTENTION READERS: Let's make a list for those government officials in charge of what they need to be "PROACTIVE" before the water comes...

1) Sandbag around the entrance of the subway

2) turn off the electricity in the city districts that are flooded

3) Create water ambulances (hovercraft) in order to get to people

'4) Think of emergency routes for people that need to leave the city.

5) A procedure to get the hundreds and hundreds of food items to those who need it.

more?

[whybother]

ATTENTION READERS: Let's make a list for those government officials in charge of what they need to be "PROACTIVE" before the water comes...

1) Sandbag around the entrance of the subway

2) turn off the electricity in the city districts that are flooded

3) Create water ambulances (hovercraft) in order to get to people

'4) Think of emergency routes for people that need to leave the city.

5) A procedure to get the hundreds and hundreds of food items to those who need it.

more?

Have you seen the entrances of any of the subways? They have metal walls and gates blocking them. Every station has at least one or two entrances closed and shuttered up already, with the open entrances half shuttered. That's been happening for nearly two weeks now.

All the stations are still open (I'm assuming Phahonyothin still is), just some of the entrances to each station are closed.

Edited November 4, 2011 by whybother

[CrustyJuggler66]

I think the main concern for the MRT will be the water that is secretly pushing its way underground.

[DocN]

I try to get my head around that, but: if one station goes...doesn't that mean "out of service" for the whole MRT?

If I were you, I would avoid travelling by MRT from NOW on!

[Ned]

Why do journos still write that this flood is "the worst in decades." Surely it's now the worst ever.

Out with the old in with the new? Will Thailand as we know it be flushed down the pipe?

[rogerdee123]

The Minister of Science may have a go at it. He could probably turn it into one big drainage pipe if that Chinese pump is big enough.

[whybother]

I try to get my head around that, but: if one station goes...doesn't that mean "out of service" for the whole MRT?

If I were you, I would avoid travelling by MRT from NOW on!

If one station "goes", all that means is that one station will be closed. The entrances seem to have pretty good flood protection (not just sand bags), and the system itself is effectively underwater all the time, so it will need to be 2-3 metre floods at a station entrance for the whole system to be shut down.

I'm about to go on the MRT. I'll tell you how it goes ... if I survive.

[whybother]

The Minister of Science may have a go at it. He could probably turn it into one big drainage pipe if that Chinese pump is big enough.

Didn't Singapore (or KL?) build a big road tunnel that doubles as a drain during heavy rains / floods? They close down the road and open the flood gates, and the whole tunnel floods.

[DocN]

I try to get my head around that, but: if one station goes...doesn't that mean "out of service" for the whole MRT?

If I were you, I would avoid travelling by MRT from NOW on!

If one station "goes", all that means is that one station will be closed. The entrances seem to have pretty good flood protection (not just sand bags), and the system itself is effectively underwater all the time, so it will need to be 2-3 metre floods at a station entrance for the whole system to be shut down.

I'm about to go on the MRT. I'll tell you how it goes ... if I survive.

I don't know if you didn't get my point or if I don't get yours.

If one station is flooded, doesnt that mean that service has to be stopped? I am not talking about light dribble, I m talking about water actually running or braking in.

It is a tunnel-system, right?

So when it is flooded, will segments be sealed off? Or the whole system?

I am not talking about "water overground" and one station not accessible.

I am talking about water IN the station!

[whybother]

I try to get my head around that, but: if one station goes...doesn't that mean "out of service" for the whole MRT?

If I were you, I would avoid travelling by MRT from NOW on!

If one station "goes", all that means is that one station will be closed. The entrances seem to have pretty good flood protection (not just sand bags), and the system itself is effectively underwater all the time, so it will need to be 2-3 metre floods at a station entrance for the whole system to be shut down.

I'm about to go on the MRT. I'll tell you how it goes ... if I survive.

I don't know if you didn't get my point or if I don't get yours.

If one station is flooded, doesnt that mean that service has to be stopped? I am not talking about light dribble, I m talking about water actually running or braking in.

It is a tunnel-system, right?

So when it is flooded, will segments be sealed off? Or the whole system?

I am not talking about "water overground" and one station not accessible.

I am talking about water IN the station!

Yes. If water started flowing down the escalaters into the station, they would most likely shut the whole system.

But there would need to be 2 metres at road level for that to actually happen. The entrance itself is a metre above the road, and the walls they have put in place go another metre or 2.

I'm on it now and everything looks fine.

[Gweiloman]

The Minister of Science may have a go at it. He could probably turn it into one big drainage pipe if that Chinese pump is big enough.

Didn't Singapore (or KL?) build a big road tunnel that doubles as a drain during heavy rains / floods? They close down the road and open the flood gates, and the whole tunnel floods.

KL. It's called the SMART Tunnel (Stormwater Management and Road Tunnel). However, this is more to counter the flash floods that occur in KL almost on a daily basis during the monsoon season (which seems to be like 360 days a year nowadays).

[creck]

The Minister of Science may have a go at it. He could probably turn it into one big drainage pipe if that Chinese pump is big enough.

Didn't Singapore (or KL?) build a big road tunnel that doubles as a drain during heavy rains / floods? They close down the road and open the flood gates, and the whole tunnel floods.

It was KL. I think they claim it is unique. It has been used and seems to work. I've driven through it - it would make a huge (fast) drain.

[rogerdee123]

The Minister of Science may have a go at it. He could probably turn it into one big drainage pipe if that Chinese pump is big enough.

Didn't Singapore (or KL?) build a big road tunnel that doubles as a drain during heavy rains / floods? They close down the road and open the flood gates, and the whole tunnel floods.

I don't know about road tunnel but that big highway out there by that airport in Singapore is designed for fighter jet usage in emergency or in case of an invasion.

[erobando]

If Subway is flooded, how are we going to get sandwiches?

[h90]

ATTENTION READERS: Let's make a list for those government officials in charge of what they need to be "PROACTIVE" before the water comes...

1) Sandbag around the entrance of the subway

2) turn off the electricity in the city districts that are flooded

3) Create water ambulances (hovercraft) in order to get to people

'4) Think of emergency routes for people that need to leave the city.

5) A procedure to get the hundreds and hundreds of food items to those who need it.

more?

Point 2) excellent idea! It guarantees that the people who are still safe and pumping the water out of their houses/factories are going down. That guarantees that all the fridges and deep fridges become useless and it guarantees that the people will be complete clueless about the situation as TV and radio does not work anymore....some may panic.

It also guarantee that the mobile phones run out of electric and people can't call in emergencies.

[siampolee]

If Subway is flooded, how are we going to get sandwiches?

Don't they serve a roll called " a torpedo ? "

[Yuanis]

subway stations in Taipei were flooded in 2005...one station flooded, flood water traveled in tunnels. Sandbags, metal door could not stp water for long..look at your IP65 electronics toys...it only stands up to 30mins in water 1 meter deep.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Yuanis

[mallyrd]

The Minister of Science may have a go at it. He could probably turn it into one big drainage pipe if that Chinese pump is big enough.

Didn't Singapore (or KL?) build a big road tunnel that doubles as a drain during heavy rains / floods? They close down the road and open the flood gates, and the whole tunnel floods.

Yes and it is Kuala Lumpur

[ballpoint]

Have you seen the entrances of any of the subways? They have metal walls and gates blocking them. Every station has at least one or two entrances closed and shuttered up already, with the open entrances half shuttered. That's been happening for nearly two weeks now.

All the stations are still open (I'm assuming Phahonyothin still is), just some of the entrances to each station are closed.

They were putting the metal barriers up at Sukhumvit and Rama 9 stations (and probably more, but they're the only two I used) six weeks ago. I know the timing for a fact because I made a trip to Bangkok to visit my embassy, and helped a friend in Minburi sandbag the front of his house and carry his furniture upstairs. And then we helped some of his Thai neighbours do the same. It seems some people were more prepared than others. From what I saw, if the MRTA were in charge, the floods would still have come, but everyone would be far better prepared than they seem to be under the bunch of clowns we have now.

Edited November 4, 2011 by ballpoint

[svenivan]

ATTENTION READERS: Let's make a list for those government officials in charge of what they need to be "PROACTIVE" before the water comes...

1) Sandbag around the entrance of the subway

2) turn off the electricity in the city districts that are flooded

3) Create water ambulances (hovercraft) in order to get to people

'4) Think of emergency routes for people that need to leave the city.

5) A procedure to get the hundreds and hundreds of food items to those who need it.

more?

For all people in flooded districts, give them an option to go and visit relatives up in the North or in the Northeast (Esaan). Give them a free busticket so they can leave before deseases break out. Especially for children and their mothers and for elderly.

It is much easier to feed them and keep them healthy in a dry environment.

[noitom]

These writers authoring these articles should learn to stick to subject. For example, this article headlined, "Bangkok subway at risk from advancing floods", you would expect some discussion of risk. But this writer chose to discuss the Chatujak Market, Suvarnhibumi airport, and the same old items that other stories have regardless of headline. There is plenty to discuss about subway risk, mor than "an official said" that "other officials" had been posted at three stations and one station had its entrance blocked. We want to know the plan to evacuate people in the likely event that water starts to flow in from the bottom as the silt and clay the subway is burrowed through give way to the massive water pressure underneath. if the government is telling and warning Bangkok to evacuate, when will they close the MRT? When do they plan to be safe and shut down the electric for MTR? I guess they are waiting for the disaster to happen, the flooding leaks in bottom or top, but it gets in. The trains do emergency stoppage, between stations, we would like to know if they have walkways and exit gates in the middle of stations. How much of that MRT is already running underwater? We need reporters to smoke out the facts on the subject headline and not tell us about Chatujak Market and the airport unless it's a connected dot to risk. We need the reporter to ask the "officials" in charge at the three stations and the "spokesperson" some hard questions.

[noitom]

The Minister of Science may have a go at it. He could probably turn it into one big drainage pipe if that Chinese pump is big enough.

Didn't Singapore (or KL?) build a big road tunnel that doubles as a drain during heavy rains / floods? They close down the road and open the flood gates, and the whole tunnel floods.

Yes and it is Kuala Lumpur

Ahhh, but they had some planning. Singapore also has fold down light poles on the road to/from airport so the poles go down and the road can serve as a backup runway. I'm sure that the Thais are "assessing" and "monitoring" the value of something like backup and operational recovery. And they probably have plenty of "officials" looking at this.

[wintermute]

If Subway is flooded, how are we going to get sandwiches?

Don't they serve a roll called " a torpedo ? "

I heard they're offering a new sandwich called the "Yingluck" it contains twice the cheese, half the meat, and lots of sweet and sour sauce.

[DocN]

I try to get my head around that, but: if one station goes...doesn't that mean "out of service" for the whole MRT?

If I were you, I would avoid travelling by MRT from NOW on!

If one station "goes", all that means is that one station will be closed. The entrances seem to have pretty good flood protection (not just sand bags), and the system itself is effectively underwater all the time, so it will need to be 2-3 metre floods at a station entrance for the whole system to be shut down.

I'm about to go on the MRT. I'll tell you how it goes ... if I survive.

I don't know if you didn't get my point or if I don't get yours.

If one station is flooded, doesnt that mean that service has to be stopped? I am not talking about light dribble, I m talking about water actually running or braking in.

It is a tunnel-system, right?

So when it is flooded, will segments be sealed off? Or the whole system?

I am not talking about "water overground" and one station not accessible.

I am talking about water IN the station!

Yes. If water started flowing down the escalaters into the station, they would most likely shut the whole system.

But there would need to be 2 metres at road level for that to actually happen. The entrance itself is a metre above the road, and the walls they have put in place go another metre or 2.

I'm on it now and everything looks fine.

Ok- good for you!

Thanks and cheers!

[Soupdragon]

Has anyone checked the blueprints for the entire system. The entrances are not the only way water can get in.

[whybother]

I saw a picture a couple of weeks ago of what looked like a "flood gate" within one of the stations. It looked like it would stop any water from getting down into the station if it happened to get through the entrances.