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[stuboy]

Hey guys, newbie poster hear. I am wondering if any of you guys are ROV pilot technicians? I have been looking in to breaking in to the offshore game through air diving or ROV's. My first choice is ROV's so looking for some advice.

I have no experience in this field or training in electronics, mechanics etc, but I am a fast learner and very keen on getting started. I am looking at doing some distance learning courses on High Voltage and Hydraulics (ROV's). Will this help in getting a trainee position, is it possible to get a trainee position here in Thailand? I am also looking at doing the ROV course in the Philippines, but spoken to a couple companies and suggest just doing the distance learning courses as mentioned and apply direct to companies for trainee positions and they would train you up their own ROV's.

What do you guys think? Is it possible around here, also what kind of money could be involved around Thailand or SEA as a trainee?

Thanks guys for your help

Stuart

[moobie]

I'm confused. What are you actually planning on doing with ROV's? A pilot, maintenance, etc?

I'm neither of the above but have worked on the design of ROV's here in the UK over the past few years. The company which I recently left had its own in-house training fascility which trains up candidates from those companies whose ships, etc. the ROV's operate. But I never witnessed courses for individuals from outside of these companies attending on a "solo" basis.

During my time within the company Thailand was not a big customer. China, Japan, Vietnam, South Korea (and Australia) were a bigger interest in SEA/Asian zone. Recently speaking with ex-colleagues the demand seems to be with trenching ROV's in relation to off shore wind turbines.

Hint : Look at the websites of various ROV manufacturers and then see if they list who they recent won orders from - might be listed as "news". From these try and seek training guidance.

[JimsKnight]

Stu, save your money mate.

The market is saturated and it'll be years before the numbers drop off again.

Try approaching the ROV company's direct and see if they'll take you on direct via an 'in-house' training program.

[Pdaz]

Guys with experience are busy but there is a glut of new trainees being pumped out by the "schools"

There has also been a move to employ more and more local techs in Asia. Countries like India and China really want to only use their own nationals if posible.

Plus the fact that the Uk pound and economy are in the toilet means many more UK/Euro based guys coming to Asia to work. The dayrate/exchange disparity between GBP/USD now makes these guys "cheap"

Then there are the agencies all battling for market share and offering guys at low rates.

Basically ROVing is going the way diving did in the 90's too many new guys, not many jobs.

Without a tech background you will struggle unless you have contacts. Asia used to be a good place to get your foot in the door. But it's not the same nowadays.

[Pdaz]

Oh and BTW I'm a ROV Supt with 20+ yrs exp in Asia.

[stuboy]

Thanks guys, I know the market is full of wannabe newbies just now, but this is the way I want to look at. I understand it can take a while to get fully in to everything, but I don't mind doing this either, I will start at the bottom work hard, I have always been the kind of guy that is first in, in the morning and last out at night. I am going to be starting the distance learning courses this week on hydraulics and high voltage (ROV based) to give me an insight, from a UK company. I was advised by a trenching company to do this and then forget about doing ROV training course, but just reapply to them again and theywould look to train me themselves. It is a good offer, but I really fancied being this side of the world. I also thought once I have done the courses, I will do the offshore survival and medic training as well, know everyone has them, but I feel it shows a little more commitment than just thinking ''oh this looks easy, I can get a job and the company can pay that.'' P'daz, you are a supt, would your company take on trainee recruits? are you staying in Thailand? I do also have a slight benefit, I hold dual nationalities and passports, South Africa and UK so traveling/working around these areas would be easier, permit wise.

[Pdaz]

Thanks guys, I know the market is full of wannabe newbies just now, but this is the way I want to look at. I understand it can take a while to get fully in to everything, but I don't mind doing this either, I will start at the bottom work hard, I have always been the kind of guy that is first in, in the morning and last out at night. I am going to be starting the distance learning courses this week on hydraulics and high voltage (ROV based) to give me an insight, from a UK company. I was advised by a trenching company to do this and then forget about doing ROV training course, but just reapply to them again and theywould look to train me themselves. It is a good offer, but I really fancied being this side of the world. I also thought once I have done the courses, I will do the offshore survival and medic training as well, know everyone has them, but I feel it shows a little more commitment than just thinking ''oh this looks easy, I can get a job and the company can pay that.'' P'daz, you are a supt, would your company take on trainee recruits? are you staying in Thailand? I do also have a slight benefit, I hold dual nationalities and passports, South Africa and UK so traveling/working around these areas would be easier, permit wise.

Yes I'm based in Thailand but currently work out of Singapore. Proper technical training is a much better idea than an ROV course. Mainly because a proper recognised qualification will be useful in other lines of work if you aren't sucessful with ROV's.

However as I said in my previous post many of the Asia based companies are now recruiting local guys to fill their trainee positions.

In another few years the expats will be few and far between and only in supervisory or senior tech positions.

The local guys are usually very well qualified and it's hard to compete for a trainee position with a guy who's a graduate engineer and willing to work for less than you. My crew at the moment is two expats and four local techs, two of which could be called 'trainees' but they are better qualified than me if we're talking formal education. Some companies are still holding out with full expat crews but again there are so many guys looking for work they can cherry pick. Check out ROVWorld dot com and see how many guys there are looking for a start. When I started you could go door knocking in Singapore and probably get lucky but doubt you'd have much chance now.

It really is a bit much to expect a company to hire a guy off the street with no experience, no qualifications and put him to work on expensive high tech gear in the oilfield. But if you are certain and want to do the research and put in the time good luck to you.

But believe me it won't be easy.

[Soutpeel]

With the other guys on this one...save your money...market is saturated and you would have two chances of getting a trainee position in Thailand, not trying to p*ss onm your plans just giving you the reality..

[stuboy]

The course is ROV based training, but only hydraulics and high voltage basic stuff initially. It's not the full pilot tech course, this I am thinking to wait for, try initially getting a trainee place first see what happens there.

So do you think it would be better to do that, get the offshore survival and medic certs, then head back to UK for trainee jobs? How about the African side? Do you know if there is much call for trainee work there?

I've done loads of reading and been through loads on the rovworld site, but most of the info looks so out of date and the guys don't want to post new threads on these topics.

I am totally set on doing this and putting in my dues, I just got to find that little loophole to let me in.

I have seen a few people mentioning about the ROV trenching work and it maybe possible to get trainee positions in that easier, is this right?

I don't mind any comments that are made, you aren't p*ssing on my plans, all the advice is helpful and appreciated, so thanks

[Pdaz]

Like I said before doing ROV based training is a waste of money. A proper mechanical, hydraulic of electronics course either part time, full time or online with an internationally recognised qualification is a much better bet.

Then at least you will be seriously considered. There are 100's of guys who have done the ROV course just as keen as you and have still never got a start.

[Soutpeel]

The course is ROV based training, but only hydraulics and high voltage basic stuff initially. It's not the full pilot tech course, this I am thinking to wait for, try initially getting a trainee place first see what happens there.

So do you think it would be better to do that, get the offshore survival and medic certs, then head back to UK for trainee jobs? How about the African side? Do you know if there is much call for trainee work there?

I've done loads of reading and been through loads on the rovworld site, but most of the info looks so out of date and the guys don't want to post new threads on these topics.

I am totally set on doing this and putting in my dues, I just got to find that little loophole to let me in.

I have seen a few people mentioning about the ROV trenching work and it maybe possible to get trainee positions in that easier, is this right?

I don't mind any comments that are made, you aren't p*ssing on my plans, all the advice is helpful and appreciated, so thanks

I wouldnt worry about your BOSIET etc until you actually have something set up, having these doesnt make you more employable, so again save your money...if something does come up..just tell them your tickets have just expired and go and do them quickly

If the intention is doing the north sea, and you do get something be careful which offshore training you do..not all are created equal and some would not be accepted in the North Sea...eg the vast majority of people in this neck of the woods do the BOSIET-T, which is for tropical water, I know global warming is having an impact but dont think the north sea is classed as tropical water yet...

If you are looking at Africa..guess you Angola/Nigeria....would think you would need to be trying to get in with Oceaneering ? ....you will find with the vast majority of international locations...nationalisation is the name of the game, and they are cheaper than expats to boot.

If you cant get a foot in the door in the UK or SA, then highly unlikely you will get a foot in the door anywhere else

[stuboy]

So you think the online courses would still be acceptable even with no connection to ROV's or actual hands on experience? What field would be best suited to follow? A mate of mine who works offshore says the guys that use the ROV's say that when they break down its always electronics problems rather than mechanical.

How well internationally would the qualification need to be, what standard are the companies ideally looking for?

[Soutpeel]

So you think the online courses would still be acceptable even with no connection to ROV's or actual hands on experience? What field would be best suited to follow? A mate of mine who works offshore says the guys that use the ROV's say that when they break down its always electronics problems rather than mechanical.

How well internationally would the qualification need to be, what standard are the companies ideally looking for?

All the guys I know are time served in either electronics/electrical (HV) or hydraulic's and have moved into the ROV field

I would humbly disagree with your mate, its not always the electronics

[rgs2001uk]

So you think the online courses would still be acceptable even with no connection to ROV's or actual hands on experience? What field would be best suited to follow? A mate of mine who works offshore says the guys that use the ROV's say that when they break down its always electronics problems rather than mechanical.

How well internationally would the qualification need to be, what standard are the companies ideally looking for?

All the guys I know are time served in either electronics/electrical (HV) or hydraulic's and have moved into the ROV field

I would humbly disagree with your mate, its not always the electronics

To echo the above, all the guys I know involved in this line of work had completed a formal apprenticeship elsewhere, and had qualifications such as, ONC, HNC or C&G.

They all attended a manufacturers course for the equipment, but they werent there to learn the basics of electrics/hydraulics.

These guys all had years of hands on experience in their previous field with many of them having been in supervisory positions.

[stuboy]

Ok, listening to you guys what you are saying. Would a btec electronics course be good to do (distance learning)

[Pdaz]

I think the consensus is that you need Both the qualification and experience in a related field. C&G or TAFE electronics course is a good start but they will still be looking for hands on time in that area. Asia is full of over qualified local who work cheap but have little practical ability. You would be considered the same as them but more costly. Electronic guys are usually more in demand than hyd/techs. Not because the squiggly stuff breaks down more. But purely cos there seems to be less ET's looking for work

[stuboy]

Ok so its settled, the best way forward is to do the electronics course (distance learning) Is the BTEC ok? I can't get the experience until I get the course done, so one step first. Hopefully I can do the course and find a trainee job with ROV's possibly in the UK and try build on some experience there for a couple years. Its a plan/start.

[houseinbkk]

Why not get your rope access level 1 done alongside a BOSIET then around next February get yourself to Aberdeen drive around and knock on doors and offer to do painting or whatever unskilled work companies need at this time (which is just before the jobs market picks up) There is no guarantee this will lead to work.

Itll cost a little over 1000GBP in total and 2 weeks of your time, but at least this way youll be able to see if working offshore is for you ... i am currently in the Norwegian sector and working offshore long term isnt for me i dont think it is for most.

Putting all your time and money into getting into ROVs could end up in a huge disappointment when you find out 4 week rotations where you have to share a room with a fat hairy snoring jock with a disagreeable personality isnt for you.

Youll get 23GBP an hour for 12 hours a day and 15/16 days out of 28 approx. do that for a few months and itll open your eyes to what you can get into and will enable you to make contacts if as you are as keen and hardworking as you say someone will take you on once youve proven you can work offshore.

IMHO from what ive seen of ROV work most involves getting it set up and <deleted> about with it, with a small amount of time playing with your toy, but why not look into doing a Hands On HNC/D Mechanical Engineering course ie not distance learning.

Once youve your foot in the door companies will fly you from Thailand for your work no matter where it is ie The North Sea/Africa, and as many have said whiteys are no longer needed to work on the tools in Asia or the ME as there a a few billion Asians who can just about do the job for a fraction of what youd expect, and companies are in the business of making a profit.

Finally be willing to spend time to get into doing a decent job offshore an concentrate on that as opposed to living in Thailand at all costs.

Edited November 9, 2011 by houseinbkk

[jonnyscot]

Hi,, if you are insistent to go down the route of ROV work, another suggestion for training would be doing a mechatronics course combining both,, as said above the contracting companies would usually fly you to Thailand from W Africa or Mid Eastern locations, but may be more difficult to get work in the North Sea/UK if you expect them to fly you to Thailand,, here in West Africa options maybe with Oceaneering or Canyon, although these last couple of years its less easy to get into Angola (visa issues) and Nigeria (Gov.t are pushing much more now for local trainees to be used to replace % of the crews) however if experienced its much easier, I know of a local nigerian company who are recruiting expats that have a decent standard of training with little ROV background, but they are sure to be offering less favourable rates.

[Soutpeel]

There is one aspect of getting offshore work nobody has mentioned.....contacts....to get into the game its generally more of case of who you know as opposed to what you know which gets you in the door...OP do you actually know people in the business who can do something for you...or did you just wake up one morning and decide you wanted yo get into ROV's ?

What are you doing now ?

[jonnyscot]

Agree 100% with southpeel,, good contacts along with a bit of luck by being in the right place at the right time..

There is one aspect of getting offshore work nobody has mentioned.....contacts....to get into the game its generally more of case of who you know as opposed to what you know which gets you in the door...OP do you actually know people in the business who can do something for you...or did you just wake up one morning and decide you wanted yo get into ROV's ?

What are you doing now ?

[Soutpeel]

Agree 100% with southpeel,, good contacts along with a bit of luck by being in the right place at the right time..

There is one aspect of getting offshore work nobody has mentioned.....contacts....to get into the game its generally more of case of who you know as opposed to what you know which gets you in the door...OP do you actually know people in the business who can do something for you...or did you just wake up one morning and decide you wanted yo get into ROV's ?

What are you doing now ?

Yeap...offshore is a very tough business to break into and the OP will need a whole lot of luck/contacts and being in the right place at the right time.

I would say as a UK/SA passport holder if he cant get a break in either the North sea or at Mossgas in SA as a trainee..going to find it very tough to break into the international game.

The shame is there is this "myth" about offshore which says....go and do a few tickets, ie BOSIET etc etc and you will get job easy, even if you have no experience or skills which are in demand ...not the case.....this may have been the case 30 years ago , I have been in the offshore game over 20 years and even 20 years ago..not that easy, easier than today, but still not easy.

[stuboy]

Totally understand where youre coming from. Contacts are great to have to get offshore. I have a couple friends who work in the offshore business now, one ROV's the other construction. But I do have a fairly large contact base through my ''Dad's friends'' as well as ''friends of my friends parents'' in South Africa/ Namibia and my dad worked between, Aberdeen all the way up the Scottish coast up until he recently retired although he still is a little active about there. Granted he wasn't in the offshore game but I know he has a lot of contacts around those parts. As for what I am doing now, well living in Thailand for the past few years doing fairly little, prior to that in the property game in the UK.

Its not something I have just though of right now, I have actually been toying with the idea for a few years, only I always thought it was impossible as I have no experience etc, but over this last year I have looked more in to it and also thought, well if I don't just go for it now then stop thinking about it all together. So now I just wanted to check a couple things out with the guys out there now and see what way would be ultimately the best to follow. So that being said I have decided what is best, do the courses, then head back to UK/SA and plod along getting some basic experience hopefully in the field I want, using any means possible, i.e. contacts or just walking in.

However if any you guys can give me a break once I done some courses and put in a wee good word, it would be very appreciated.

[houseinbkk]

The shame is there is this "myth" about offshore which says....go and do a few tickets, ie BOSIET etc etc and you will get job easy, even if you have no experience or skills which are in demand ...not the case.....this may have been the case 30 years ago , I have been in the offshore game over 20 years and even 20 years ago..not that easy, easier than today, but still not easy.

I only had a few tickets and managed to get into the oil game very easily with no contacts, being a bit of a chancer with an aim was enough for me.

[jonnyscot]

yes, but there are a couple of types of "chancers" though,,, the ones with some tickets and background experience usually get on ok,, whereas the chancers with the gift of the gab and a few shiny new courses under their belts but no background experience that climb too fast usually fall the furthest

The shame is there is this "myth" about offshore which says....go and do a few tickets, ie BOSIET etc etc and you will get job easy, even if you have no experience or skills which are in demand ...not the case.....this may have been the case 30 years ago , I have been in the offshore game over 20 years and even 20 years ago..not that easy, easier than today, but still not easy.

I only had a few tickets and managed to get into the oil game very easily with no contacts, being a bit of a chancer with an aim was enough for me.

[houseinbkk]

yes, but there are a couple of types of "chancers" though,,, the ones with some tickets and background experience usually get on ok,, whereas the chancers with the gift of the gab and a few shiny new courses under their belts but no background experience that climb too fast usually fall the furthest

There are plenty of chancers in supervisory/lower/mid management roles earning big bucks who somehow manage to keep the blag going. A bit of common sense or/and an ability to kiss ass go a long way.

Thing is you can earn the same onshore at a refinery or on a pipeline without the need to be trapped offshore, there are many options in o&g and now renewable energy industries the op would find out by doing a couple of stints as a dishwasher offshore.

[stuboy]

I agree with everyone, you do need some experience first, but most of all you need to have a field that you know something about specially, rather than just general experience, which is why I will do the courses first. Once I have that then break in at very bottom level and just work away. If it means I have tickets for electronics, hydraulics, bla bla bla and only get about doing some tea making and sweeping floors, but get to lend my hands to the ROV for only a tenth of the day, it will be fine. That tenth of the day, shows you are keen enough to want to stick around and learn to progress futher. In my opinion anyway, maybe different offshore I don't know. I don't think it would ultimately come to that, as there are a fair few companies out there that do variously different things that I am sure would always need a trainee boy to push about a little.

[Soutpeel]

Thing is you can earn the same onshore at a refinery or on a pipeline without the need to be trapped offshore, there are many options in o&g and now renewable energy industries the op would find out by doing a couple of stints as a dishwasher offshore.

Having done both refinery and pipelines onshore...what you say is not strictly true...

And seeing as the OP is talking about getting in ROV's....going to be difficult to put a 150hp workclass ROV down a pipeline on a refinery is it ?....

Edited November 11, 2011 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

The shame is there is this "myth" about offshore which says....go and do a few tickets, ie BOSIET etc etc and you will get job easy, even if you have no experience or skills which are in demand ...not the case.....this may have been the case 30 years ago , I have been in the offshore game over 20 years and even 20 years ago..not that easy, easier than today, but still not easy.

I only had a few tickets and managed to get into the oil game very easily with no contacts, being a bit of a chancer with an aim was enough for me.

Well you have been lucky.....this is the exception not the norm...what are you doing offshore ?

[Soutpeel]

yes, but there are a couple of types of "chancers" though,,, the ones with some tickets and background experience usually get on ok,, whereas the chancers with the gift of the gab and a few shiny new courses under their belts but no background experience that climb too fast usually fall the furthest

The shame is there is this "myth" about offshore which says....go and do a few tickets, ie BOSIET etc etc and you will get job easy, even if you have no experience or skills which are in demand ...not the case.....this may have been the case 30 years ago , I have been in the offshore game over 20 years and even 20 years ago..not that easy, easier than today, but still not easy.

I only had a few tickets and managed to get into the oil game very easily with no contacts, being a bit of a chancer with an aim was enough for me.

yeap run off a few of these types over the years....the smart <deleted> generally dont last too long...