Chula Team Proposes Super-Express Floodways: Thailand

[webfact]

Chula team proposes super-express floodways

Chularat Saengpassa

The Nation

A professor from Chulalongkorn University (CU) says his team has devised a New Thailand strategy to free the country from flooding disasters.

"We developed the long-term plan to prevent flooding as far back as 1999," Professor Dr Thanawat Jarupongsakul said. The head of CU Unit for Disaster and Land Information Studies will next week hold a press conference to outline 11 measures needed to thwart flood threats in the future. Among them are super-express flood ways, flood tax, and Bangkok's satellite towns.

"We believe the government will be interested [in our plan]," Thanawat said.

As Thailand battles its worst flood in decades, which is now ravaging many parts of the capital, the spotlight has turned to ways to stop the disaster.

Flood-related death tolls have already risen beyond 500 and economic damage runs into many billions of baht with at least seven industrial estates submerged.

"There is no need to enlist foreign help. We started the study on flood prevention in 1995 and it was completed in 1999," Thanawat said. "We can adjust the study results to the current context".

The expert recommends a holistic approach for long-term results. If his strategy is implemented, New Thailand will materialise in 50 years, not anytime soon.

Thanawat said he had warned many years ago that the lack of integration would only increase the severity of inundation. For example, when all riverside provinces started building embankments along the Chao Phraya River, water levels in the river can only rise and rage faster.

"I'd told authorities that embankments would crumble and that's what has happened this year," he said.

He estimated that 2,700-2,800 cubic metres of water raged past Ayutthaya's Bang Sai district in 1995 but this year up to 3,900 cubic metres of water raged past the same spot.

"The embankments or floodwalls are causing rifts in society, too," Thanawat pointed out.

To solve the problems, he recommended collecting direct flood tax from the owners of structures on natural flood ways or water-retention areas. The tax rate for buildings in the zones, for example, should be 20 or 30 times higher than the rate elsewhere. The difference can then be kept for use as compensation for flood victims.

"The Bang Pahan area in Ayutthaya is a natural water-retention area. Because land plots there had been flooded repeatedly, original owners are willing to sell their land at a cheap price to investors keen on building factories. In such cases, those who build structures there should pay higher tax," Thanawat said.

He also recommended collecting flood tax from people living in zones equipped with flood-prevention measures like floodwalls. "As your measures affect others, you should pay higher tax," the academic suggested.

Thanawat pushed for the construction of super-express flood ways, too, referring to the network of canals, adjacent land plots and high roads.

"The country has already had natural canals. What we need to do is to expropriate land plots within one-km radius from these waterways and then build roads that are six metres above ground level. Together, they will deliver the super-express flood way," he said.

He said the high roads would ensure that if the canals overflowed, no communities would be affected. The super-express flood-way network, which should start from the Chai Nat-Pasak Canal, will stretch for about 100 kilometres. They will be able to hold up to 800 million cubic metres of run-off water from the upper part of the country.

"If we develop this network, we will be able to push 6,000 cubic metres of water to the sea per second. At some spots, we may have to build bridges and use pumps to push water across some roads but it will still be a very effective solution," he said.

Asked if the super-express flood-way network would be very expensive, he said, "It's relatively cheaper when compared with other alternative solutions such as digging the second Chao Phraya River".

Thanawat said areas inside the super-express flood-way network could be used for paddy fields at some periods in the year.

Regarding Bangkok's satellite towns, he said it would help with the city planning and efforts to keep some areas as green zones. "Bangkok's urban zones must stop growing. We need to encourage urban development to expand in Ratchaburi, Saraburi, Chachoengsao and Suphan Buri instead," Thanawat said.

The professor hoped to see the Disaster Prevention Ministry spring into operation because he believed only integrated efforts and a holistic approach could make a real change.

"Area-specific measures won't help. Temporary measures such as handing out relief items won't stop floods from recurring," he said.

Thanawat said the country had much to learn from the raging flood crisis. "A fact-finding committee should be established to find out what caused the current crisis. If we can identify the root causes, we will be able to solve and prevent the problems. This is not about finding fault with someone," he said, adding that he would be willing to play a role in the fact-finding committee if invited.

-- The Nation 2011-11-12

[mijan24]

This makes good reading and please note the dates 1995 - 1999 Maybe it's time people such as this were listened to.You only have to look at the major complexes that currently occupy natural flood escapes such as the new airport to understand the thinking behind his TAX thoughts - if you wish to build in such areas pay the TAX which could/should be used in the construction and maintenance of alternate water expressways.

Edited November 12, 2011 by mijan24

[noitom]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

[webfact]

Dr. Thanawat Jarupongsakul

Sun, 2010-07-18 13:55 | by admin

Dr. Thanawat is a lecturer in geology at Chulalongkorn University specializing in soil erosion. He studies coastal areas with severe erosion problems, and more recently has been investigating how climate change and sea level rise may be an important contributing factor to accelerating coastal erosion. He recently engineered a new type of coastal barrier installed in Baan Khun Samut Jeen in Samut Prakarn. These new barriers have received wide acclaim for their effectiveness, and are now being promoted as one of the tools Thailand should use to respond to sea level rise caused by global warming.

Source: http://www.thaiclimate.org/en/people/31

[jonclark]

It's a good idea in principle, but I see a flaw. It relies on pushing or speeding up the movement/drainage of water into the sea as the main flood prevention strategy. So what happens to this system during high tides when sea levels increase? (nobody mention boats please). Or do they intend to have a huge water retention area set aside until sea levels drop. If so what do the landowners of this land earmarked think of the plan?

[jonclark]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Great second paragraph - I'm sure it hits home with many peoples experiences of living in Thailand with the Thais.

[DocN]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Great second paragraph - I'm sure it hits home with many peoples experiences of living in Thailand with the Thais.

Oh hell, it does!

[hellodolly]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Like you say a crackpot. 50 years to complete his plan and from what I got out of it it will only help greater Bangkok.

My wife uses that argument I am Thai as a excuse for stupidity also. I just mha pen rai.

[OzMick]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Like you say a crackpot. 50 years to complete his plan and from what I got out of it it will only help greater Bangkok.

My wife uses that argument I am Thai as a excuse for stupidity also. I just mha pen rai.

If you think about it the plan makes more sense. The long time span allows for very expensive actions to be paid for without huge borrowings, and allows for defects to be discovered and rectified. Surely better than a huge expense scheme that turns out to be a white elephant. It also allows time for market forces to act - high property taxes are much more reasonable than appropriations, and those that whinge won't find much sympathy when it can be justified for the greater good. I would imagine that non-flow restricting use such as parks, golf courses and farming/grazing would be tax free.

Onlyt for Greater BKK. Well the larger the area that you try to protect, the higher the cost, and the Law of Diminishing Returns applies. On the plus side, faster flows around/through BKK mean that upstream flooding will be less severe and drain faster.

I have no details of the plan, but to me the basic concept sounds plausible.

[puntmeister]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

I do understand your overall frustration with the Thai mentality, but I think you may be misdirecting it. Its the masses of Thais that failed to listen, and failed to act, that are to blame - not the handful of Thais that understood the problem, and worked on solutions.

I'm not saying this guy's solution is the best (I'm really not qualified, and haven't seen the details anyway), but at least he tried (and is trying). The overall point is: the lack of flood prevention isn't due to a lack of a strategy - plans have existed for years (Likely, many different plans). Rather, the lack of flood prevention is the result of inaction by successive governments.

I also don't think he is suggesting that aid be cutoff to the flood victims - he is just making the valid point that igoring the root problems, and waiting for disaster to strike, is a poor plan. Or do you disagree?

[puntmeister]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Like you say a crackpot. 50 years to complete his plan and from what I got out of it it will only help greater Bangkok.

My wife uses that argument I am Thai as a excuse for stupidity also. I just mha pen rai.

Yeah - I get the same. "Honey, you don't understand, we are Thai, we do things different". What they don't understand is that we DO understand, which is why we try to set them straight!

[noitom]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

I do understand your overall frustration with the Thai mentality, but I think you may be misdirecting it. Its the masses of Thais that failed to listen, and failed to act, that are to blame - not the handful of Thais that understood the problem, and worked on solutions.

I'm not saying this guy's solution is the best (I'm really not qualified, and haven't seen the details anyway), but at least he tried (and is trying). The overall point is: the lack of flood prevention isn't due to a lack of a strategy - plans have existed for years (Likely, many different plans). Rather, the lack of flood prevention is the result of inaction by successive governments.

I also don't think he is suggesting that aid be cutoff to the flood victims - he is just making the valid point that igoring the root problems, and waiting for disaster to strike, is a poor plan. Or do you disagree?

Stories like this are always open to interpretation. Putting the mechanics of his plan aside, I'm not qualified to evaluate it. But, I perceived his comments to be totally self serving to the exclusion of reality. He developed this plan and now he thinks it's time to haul it down from the back shelf in his cubicle and dust it off. The white knight rising to the occasion. The ultimate opportunist. I agree that many dozens of these plans probably exist, but I don't agree that it's the inaction of the Thai masses that led to its current state of affairs. I think that Thailand was patched up and developed on the fly as they got new money from US military and foreign investors, mainly Japanese. It was developed, in other words the money was controlled and administered, by the elite business class privileged high rank people to the exclusion of social justice and good for the population at large. In other words, they focused on Bangkok and protecting their various concessions and businesses while plundering the resources and land of the masses. The north and north east of Thailand weren't even integrated in to the same system of education and government as Bangkok provinces until the 70s and well in to the 80s and are still ignored and considered irrelevant. The inner Bangkok military and commercial elite ruling class never considered the general population's interest or welfare. They were/are thought to be a terrible nuisance, lacking in education, and not deserving equal vote because they are too ignorant to vote wisely is the general point of view of this privileged group. The comments made by Thanawat reflected to me the arrogant attitude of myopia and stratification that prevails in this elite, Bangkok centric, privileged society.

[geriatrickid]

The plan has a major deficiency in that it accepts that factories and other large scale developments can be built in high risk flood zones. If people want to build there, then they should assume 100% of the risk and they should be held liable for the cleanup of their pollution caused when the flood waters hit them spreading toxic waste and the like. Why collect tax for compensation for these people? The tax will never be enough to cover the losses. In effect ,he is advocating the subsidization of the greedy land developers. If the academic was academically inclined, he'd open a text book on river systems and flood plains and learn about the benefits of leaving some lands undeveloped and the benefit of leaving swamps and marshland in place. They are nature's sponges.

[puntmeister]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

I do understand your overall frustration with the Thai mentality, but I think you may be misdirecting it. Its the masses of Thais that failed to listen, and failed to act, that are to blame - not the handful of Thais that understood the problem, and worked on solutions.

I'm not saying this guy's solution is the best (I'm really not qualified, and haven't seen the details anyway), but at least he tried (and is trying). The overall point is: the lack of flood prevention isn't due to a lack of a strategy - plans have existed for years (Likely, many different plans). Rather, the lack of flood prevention is the result of inaction by successive governments.

I also don't think he is suggesting that aid be cutoff to the flood victims - he is just making the valid point that igoring the root problems, and waiting for disaster to strike, is a poor plan. Or do you disagree?

Stories like this are always open to interpretation. Putting the mechanics of his plan aside, I'm not qualified to evaluate it. But, I perceived his comments to be totally self serving to the exclusion of reality. He developed this plan and now he thinks it's time to haul it down from the back shelf in his cubicle and dust it off. The white knight rising to the occasion. The ultimate opportunist. I agree that many dozens of these plans probably exist, but I don't agree that it's the inaction of the Thai masses that led to its current state of affairs. I think that Thailand was patched up and developed on the fly as they got new money from US military and foreign investors, mainly Japanese. It was developed, in other words the money was controlled and administered, by the elite business class privileged high rank people to the exclusion of social justice and good for the population at large. In other words, they focused on Bangkok and protecting their various concessions and businesses while plundering the resources and land of the masses. The north and north east of Thailand weren't even integrated in to the same system of education and government as Bangkok provinces until the 70s and well in to the 80s and are still ignored and considered irrelevant. The inner Bangkok military and commercial elite ruling class never considered the general population's interest or welfare. They were/are thought to be a terrible nuisance, lacking in education, and not deserving equal vote because they are too ignorant to vote wisely is the general point of view of this privileged group. The comments made by Thanawat reflected to me the arrogant attitude of myopia and stratification that prevails in this elite, Bangkok centric, privileged society.

Now all that I would agree with. I just think you were venting your frustration with all that you just wrote on this one guy, who is putting forth a potential resolution (whether a viable one or not) to the flood problems.

To the other poster: I agree, to an extent, but its hard to tell whether the guy actually intends to allow development on certain areas, or is using taxation policy as an effective means to curtail it. It can be difficult, legally, to ban the use of certain lands - especially since most of the lands in question have already been developed (the developments would be grandfathered). Taxation policy can be a very effective way around the problem.

"We can't tell you that you have to tear down your factory and move, but, if you stay, you're new tax bill will be one gazillion baht".

Taxation is actually one of the most effective ways to control land use.

[rogerdee123]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Like you say a crackpot. 50 years to complete his plan and from what I got out of it it will only help greater Bangkok.

My wife uses that argument I am Thai as a excuse for stupidity also. I just mha pen rai.

If you think about it the plan makes more sense. The long time span allows for very expensive actions to be paid for without huge borrowings, and allows for defects to be discovered and rectified. Surely better than a huge expense scheme that turns out to be a white elephant. It also allows time for market forces to act - high property taxes are much more reasonable than appropriations, and those that whinge won't find much sympathy when it can be justified for the greater good. I would imagine that non-flow restricting use such as parks, golf courses and farming/grazing would be tax free.

Onlyt for Greater BKK. Well the larger the area that you try to protect, the higher the cost, and the Law of Diminishing Returns applies. On the plus side, faster flows around/through BKK mean that upstream flooding will be less severe and drain faster.

I have no details of the plan, but to me the basic concept sounds plausible.

I agree OzMick, they will have to do something like this. Maybe this particular plan is crap or maybe brilliant who knows.

I agree with the other posters that they have to bring in REAL experts to help.

But also the idiot politicians & Poo Yai's have to keep their greedy hands out of it and I think this is a bigger problem for Thailand than the technology.

[OzMick]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

I do understand your overall frustration with the Thai mentality, but I think you may be misdirecting it. Its the masses of Thais that failed to listen, and failed to act, that are to blame - not the handful of Thais that understood the problem, and worked on solutions.

I'm not saying this guy's solution is the best (I'm really not qualified, and haven't seen the details anyway), but at least he tried (and is trying). The overall point is: the lack of flood prevention isn't due to a lack of a strategy - plans have existed for years (Likely, many different plans). Rather, the lack of flood prevention is the result of inaction by successive governments.

I also don't think he is suggesting that aid be cutoff to the flood victims - he is just making the valid point that igoring the root problems, and waiting for disaster to strike, is a poor plan. Or do you disagree?

Stories like this are always open to interpretation. Putting the mechanics of his plan aside, I'm not qualified to evaluate it. But, I perceived his comments to be totally self serving to the exclusion of reality. He developed this plan and now he thinks it's time to haul it down from the back shelf in his cubicle and dust it off. The white knight rising to the occasion. The ultimate opportunist. I agree that many dozens of these plans probably exist, but I don't agree that it's the inaction of the Thai masses that led to its current state of affairs. I think that Thailand was patched up and developed on the fly as they got new money from US military and foreign investors, mainly Japanese. It was developed, in other words the money was controlled and administered, by the elite business class privileged high rank people to the exclusion of social justice and good for the population at large. In other words, they focused on Bangkok and protecting their various concessions and businesses while plundering the resources and land of the masses. The north and north east of Thailand weren't even integrated in to the same system of education and government as Bangkok provinces until the 70s and well in to the 80s and are still ignored and considered irrelevant. The inner Bangkok military and commercial elite ruling class never considered the general population's interest or welfare. They were/are thought to be a terrible nuisance, lacking in education, and not deserving equal vote because they are too ignorant to vote wisely is the general point of view of this privileged group. The comments made by Thanawat reflected to me the arrogant attitude of myopia and stratification that prevails in this elite, Bangkok centric, privileged society.

With the greatest respect, what is so self-serving about re-presenting a plan done, and ignored, by a respected expert from a respected uni. 4 years of work was ignored, and now seems an appropriate time to look at it again.

As for the rest of the rant, I can only suggest you find some better sources of information than your wife's red-shirt family and their drinking buddies.

BTW My home is 700km from BKK.

[OzMick]

The plan has a major deficiency in that it accepts that factories and other large scale developments can be built in high risk flood zones. If people want to build there, then they should assume 100% of the risk and they should be held liable for the cleanup of their pollution caused when the flood waters hit them spreading toxic waste and the like. Why collect tax for compensation for these people? The tax will never be enough to cover the losses. In effect ,he is advocating the subsidization of the greedy land developers. If the academic was academically inclined, he'd open a text book on river systems and flood plains and learn about the benefits of leaving some lands undeveloped and the benefit of leaving swamps and marshland in place. They are nature's sponges.

The textbook, would that be the one he wrote? High property taxes on flood zones for flow obstructing use would encourage those thinking of building there to alter plans and those already there to move. How you manage to distort that into a subsidy for land developers trying to sell land that has become uneconomical is beyond logic.

[moe666]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Geez if you are this flustrated with Thais it appears you need a vacation some where else for a while. or maybe flustration with your own life

[noitom]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

I do understand your overall frustration with the Thai mentality, but I think you may be misdirecting it. Its the masses of Thais that failed to listen, and failed to act, that are to blame - not the handful of Thais that understood the problem, and worked on solutions.

I'm not saying this guy's solution is the best (I'm really not qualified, and haven't seen the details anyway), but at least he tried (and is trying). The overall point is: the lack of flood prevention isn't due to a lack of a strategy - plans have existed for years (Likely, many different plans). Rather, the lack of flood prevention is the result of inaction by successive governments.

I also don't think he is suggesting that aid be cutoff to the flood victims - he is just making the valid point that igoring the root problems, and waiting for disaster to strike, is a poor plan. Or do you disagree?

Stories like this are always open to interpretation. Putting the mechanics of his plan aside, I'm not qualified to evaluate it. But, I perceived his comments to be totally self serving to the exclusion of reality. He developed this plan and now he thinks it's time to haul it down from the back shelf in his cubicle and dust it off. The white knight rising to the occasion. The ultimate opportunist. I agree that many dozens of these plans probably exist, but I don't agree that it's the inaction of the Thai masses that led to its current state of affairs. I think that Thailand was patched up and developed on the fly as they got new money from US military and foreign investors, mainly Japanese. It was developed, in other words the money was controlled and administered, by the elite business class privileged high rank people to the exclusion of social justice and good for the population at large. In other words, they focused on Bangkok and protecting their various concessions and businesses while plundering the resources and land of the masses. The north and north east of Thailand weren't even integrated in to the same system of education and government as Bangkok provinces until the 70s and well in to the 80s and are still ignored and considered irrelevant. The inner Bangkok military and commercial elite ruling class never considered the general population's interest or welfare. They were/are thought to be a terrible nuisance, lacking in education, and not deserving equal vote because they are too ignorant to vote wisely is the general point of view of this privileged group. The comments made by Thanawat reflected to me the arrogant attitude of myopia and stratification that prevails in this elite, Bangkok centric, privileged society.

With the greatest respect, what is so self-serving about re-presenting a plan done, and ignored, by a respected expert from a respected uni. 4 years of work was ignored, and now seems an appropriate time to look at it again.

As for the rest of the rant, I can only suggest you find some better sources of information than your wife's red-shirt family and their drinking buddies.

BTW My home is 700km from BKK.

With the greatest respect, what is so self-serving about re-presenting a plan done, and ignored, by a respected expert from a respected uni. 4 years of work was ignored, and now seems an appropriate time to look at it again.

Why did he choose to call a press conference now with a 12/13 year old plan and comment glibly "we can update it to the current context?" Self aggrandizement and no glory stuck away in a cubicle where no one would listen to him see he developed this paper. 4 years of work? You and I both know that 4 years of work "with his team" represented a total output that you and I could do in 3 months.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">As for the rest of the rant, I can only suggest you find some better sources of information than your wife's red-shirt family and their drinking buddies. (This part of your comment is clearly a "personal" confrontation and you making assumptions about my wife, her family and me)

<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">BTW My home is 700km from BKK.

[hellodolly]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Like you say a crackpot. 50 years to complete his plan and from what I got out of it it will only help greater Bangkok.

My wife uses that argument I am Thai as a excuse for stupidity also. I just mha pen rai.

If you think about it the plan makes more sense. The long time span allows for very expensive actions to be paid for without huge borrowings, and allows for defects to be discovered and rectified. Surely better than a huge expense scheme that turns out to be a white elephant. It also allows time for market forces to act - high property taxes are much more reasonable than appropriations, and those that whinge won't find much sympathy when it can be justified for the greater good. I would imagine that non-flow restricting use such as parks, golf courses and farming/grazing would be tax free.

Onlyt for Greater BKK. Well the larger the area that you try to protect, the higher the cost, and the Law of Diminishing Returns applies. On the plus side, faster flows around/through BKK mean that upstream flooding will be less severe and drain faster.

I have no details of the plan, but to me the basic concept sounds plausible.

A major flaw I see is the time frame. What if a flood comes and destroys all the work you have done and in the mean time business as usual in flood times.

Thailand needs to address this as a distinct possibility now not as some thing way off in the future.

Edited November 12, 2011 by hellodolly

[animatic]

Dr. Thanawat Jarupongsakul

Sun, 2010-07-18 13:55 | by admin

Dr. Thanawat is a lecturer in geology at Chulalongkorn University specializing in soil erosion. He studies coastal areas with severe erosion problems, and more recently has been investigating how climate change and sea level rise may be an important contributing factor to accelerating coastal erosion. He recently engineered a new type of coastal barrier installed in Baan Khun Samut Jeen in Samut Prakarn. These new barriers have received wide acclaim for their effectiveness, and are now being promoted as one of the tools Thailand should use to respond to sea level rise caused by global warming.

Source: http://www.thaiclima...rg/en/people/31

Sounds like he is one of the few around Thailand who has AN ACTUAL CLUE about what needs to be done. Just because he had a plan set and was ignored by politicians for 12 years doesn't mean his plan is bad...

It just means that the thai politicians couldn't see how THEY would profit from it, or could see how it might affect their 'friends interests' negatively, and that's enough to kibosh it. Or BOTH.

We know the political will for major public works evaporates super quickly here, and even the most long lasting government will look to it's own interests before the peoples. Which group took power in a booming world economy soon after this plan came out? Thaksin Inc. They did nothing.

When he brought this out in '99 that was two years into the Asian Tiger Economic Collapse, of course no one was looking to do HUGE SCALE / MEGA BUCKS projects;

That won't earn money for the builders long term like the airport and skytrains and subway.

That will tear apart large swaths of greater Bangkok displacing companies and residents, on a what if basis.

There is nothing that says his plan, updated for current physical realities, isn't a solidly based one. Of course it must be updated; 12 years of building and ground subsidence has happened, things changed from '99. He would be foolish NOT to mention this.

External experts SHOULD be consulted, but this guy seems to have the most knowledge on the actual area of anyone in the public eye at present. So that makes this plan a 1st choice of where to start. Why go back to square one, unless you want to milk the budget for committees to start from scratch.

Edited November 12, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Another crackpot plan from an obscure university professor to whom no one paid any attention for all these years. He says he finished his plan in 1999. So he has had 12 years to get it in front of someone who would help him sell it. Thanawat states "there is no need to enlist foreign help." He adds further " the plan was finished in 1999, we can adjust the study results for the current context." What a ridiculous outlook.

This is exactly the kind of preposterous thinking that created decades of Rube Goldberg/Heath Robinson approaches to Thailand's flawed thinking and solutions. Don't bring in foreign help, we know all the answers. We are Thai, they are not, they don't understand "Thainess." When they are here with us , we don't see them. What they think makes no difference to us. I gain no face or lose none by listening to them. I will just be Thai and ignore them. If they say up, I will say down. Just to prove that I am Thai and I am in control. I will resist them. I know all. My plan is perfect. If only my own people would have seen that twelve years ago. But alas, my plan can only be completed in 50 years, but it will line the pockets of many bureaucrats and elite privileged business class. They should listen to me. I am Thai.

He computes, he analyzes, he states, he calculates, he blusters, he calls a press conference, he pounds the table, he does it all. Why didn't they listen to him 12 years ago? Why would anyone listen to this obscure university professor who was never visible before, but probably took in lots of public taxpayer funding to "take care" of his team? He states further that "handing out temporary relief" now won't solve the problem. In other words, Thanawat is saying ignore the medical and health emergency and disaster. Forget about "handing out" restoration money and tents" ..etc. Let them fend for their own food, water, medicine, supplies, and necessities. No more handouts. Work on my plan. What a self absorbed view of the world and preposterous ideas and statements. A totally over inflated sense of self importance, typically Thai.

Like you say a crackpot. 50 years to complete his plan and from what I got out of it it will only help greater Bangkok.

My wife uses that argument I am Thai as a excuse for stupidity also. I just mha pen rai.

If you think about it the plan makes more sense. The long time span allows for very expensive actions to be paid for without huge borrowings, and allows for defects to be discovered and rectified. Surely better than a huge expense scheme that turns out to be a white elephant. It also allows time for market forces to act - high property taxes are much more reasonable than appropriations, and those that whinge won't find much sympathy when it can be justified for the greater good. I would imagine that non-flow restricting use such as parks, golf courses and farming/grazing would be tax free.

Onlyt for Greater BKK. Well the larger the area that you try to protect, the higher the cost, and the Law of Diminishing Returns applies. On the plus side, faster flows around/through BKK mean that upstream flooding will be less severe and drain faster.

I have no details of the plan, but to me the basic concept sounds plausible.

A major flaw I see is the time frame. What if a flood comes and destroys all the work you have done and in the mean time business as usual in flood times.

Thailand needs to address this as a distinct possibility not as some thing way off in the future.

They know how to deal with large rains and construction projects.

If you don't start because 'it might get damaged', then you never start.

But much more will get damaged by never starting, even if you have to do a redo on some parts.

[steady]

This thread and the original piece about the professor with the 50 year masterplan sums up what I have seen over the last few weeks and months in Thailand.

It goes like this; expert one says something, in this case, build these waterways in 50 years is the answer. Then expert 2 says, but isn't Bangkok going to be under the sea in 30 years. Not a problem because as has happened here recently the prime minister says that she has listened to experts and we are only opening the sluice gate 20 cm because that is the best option. Then those who have been up to their armpits in filthy water for a month start shouting to open it further, probably rightly so, and the prime minister says, "ok, we can open the gate another 30cm". So now we have 4 groups of "experts" and to me the only ones showing ownership of the problem are the ones up to their armpits in the water. They are dealing with something tangible.

After seeing all this I'm going to encourage my children to become an "expert". As a career it must be on a par with politics or the law.....and you may have died of old age before you are found out!!!

[animatic]

This thread and the original piece about the professor with the 50 year masterplan sums up what I have seen over the last few weeks and months in Thailand.

It goes like this; expert one says something, in this case, build these waterways in 50 years is the answer. Then expert 2 says, but isn't Bangkok going to be under the sea in 30 years. Not a problem because as has happened here recently the prime minister says that she has listened to experts and we are only opening the sluice gate 20 cm because that is the best option. Then those who have been up to their armpits in filthy water for a month start shouting to open it further, probably rightly so, and the prime minister says, "ok, we can open the gate another 30cm". So now we have 4 groups of "experts" and to me the only ones showing ownership of the problem are the ones up to their armpits in the water. They are dealing with something tangible.

After seeing all this I'm going to encourage my children to become an "expert". As a career it must be on a par with politics or the law.....and you may have died of old age before you are found out!!!

Great except they ones up to their armpits know the problem, but not a workable solution. This IS a long term issue regardless if Bangkok still subsides.

A geologist is one of the few with a clue what is happening to the GEOLOGY on which all else is built upon. You must deal with analysis of foundation issues, not let short tern interests like sluice gate levels, make the final decisions.

Edited November 12, 2011 by animatic

[Samuian]

I love it that in times like these all these incredible smart people surface, with all these incredible smart solutions!

Where have they been BEFORE the disaster struck?

Or is their inteligence only surfacing and working at top level in case of a disaster?

I just love it, it's great isn't it?... wait till the bell strikes again!

well shall see....

Edited November 12, 2011 by Samuian

[noitom]

This thread and the original piece about the professor with the 50 year masterplan sums up what I have seen over the last few weeks and months in Thailand.

It goes like this; expert one says something, in this case, build these waterways in 50 years is the answer. Then expert 2 says, but isn't Bangkok going to be under the sea in 30 years. Not a problem because as has happened here recently the prime minister says that she has listened to experts and we are only opening the sluice gate 20 cm because that is the best option. Then those who have been up to their armpits in filthy water for a month start shouting to open it further, probably rightly so, and the prime minister says, "ok, we can open the gate another 30cm". So now we have 4 groups of "experts" and to me the only ones showing ownership of the problem are the ones up to their armpits in the water. They are dealing with something tangible.

After seeing all this I'm going to encourage my children to become an "expert". As a career it must be on a par with politics or the law.....and you may have died of old age before you are found out!!!

For only a few months in Thailand, you seem to have it sized up pretty well.

[animatic]

I loveit that in tmes like these all thse incredible smart people surface, with all thses incredible smart solutions!

Where have they been BEFORE the disaster struck?

Or is their inteligence only surfacing and working at top level in case ofa disaster?

I just love it, it's great isn't it?... wait till the bell strikes again!

High Intelligence that makes others look smaller in self-comparison, is not appreciated in Thai Society, so they get their brief moments and then 'the fools' shove them back down out of the lime light. The round peg standing out in a box of squares. The nail sticking up, quickly hammered back down.

In this case the Prof. has been actively ignored for a decade, but he comes forward with his concept yet again. To NOT do so would be to be a poor citizen and not work in the public interest. If the idea is workable then it should be looked at seriously, regardless of face issues involved.

Edited November 12, 2011 by animatic

[noitom]

This thread and the original piece about the professor with the 50 year masterplan sums up what I have seen over the last few weeks and months in Thailand.

It goes like this; expert one says something, in this case, build these waterways in 50 years is the answer. Then expert 2 says, but isn't Bangkok going to be under the sea in 30 years. Not a problem because as has happened here recently the prime minister says that she has listened to experts and we are only opening the sluice gate 20 cm because that is the best option. Then those who have been up to their armpits in filthy water for a month start shouting to open it further, probably rightly so, and the prime minister says, "ok, we can open the gate another 30cm". So now we have 4 groups of "experts" and to me the only ones showing ownership of the problem are the ones up to their armpits in the water. They are dealing with something tangible.

After seeing all this I'm going to encourage my children to become an "expert". As a career it must be on a par with politics or the law.....and you may have died of old age before you are found out!!!

For only a few months in Thailand, you seem to have it sized up well.

[noitom]

This thread and the original piece about the professor with the 50 year masterplan sums up what I have seen over the last few weeks and months in Thailand.

It goes like this; expert one says something, in this case, build these waterways in 50 years is the answer. Then expert 2 says, but isn't Bangkok going to be under the sea in 30 years. Not a problem because as has happened here recently the prime minister says that she has listened to experts and we are only opening the sluice gate 20 cm because that is the best option. Then those who have been up to their armpits in filthy water for a month start shouting to open it further, probably rightly so, and the prime minister says, "ok, we can open the gate another 30cm". So now we have 4 groups of "experts" and to me the only ones showing ownership of the problem are the ones up to their armpits in the water. They are dealing with something tangible.

After seeing all this I'm going to encourage my children to become an "expert". As a career it must be on a par with politics or the law.....and you may have died of old age before you are found out!!!

For only a few months in Thailand, you seem to have it sized up very well.

[puntmeister]

This thread and the original piece about the professor with the 50 year masterplan sums up what I have seen over the last few weeks and months in Thailand.

It goes like this; expert one says something, in this case, build these waterways in 50 years is the answer. Then expert 2 says, but isn't Bangkok going to be under the sea in 30 years. Not a problem because as has happened here recently the prime minister says that she has listened to experts and we are only opening the sluice gate 20 cm because that is the best option. Then those who have been up to their armpits in filthy water for a month start shouting to open it further, probably rightly so, and the prime minister says, "ok, we can open the gate another 30cm". So now we have 4 groups of "experts" and to me the only ones showing ownership of the problem are the ones up to their armpits in the water. They are dealing with something tangible.

After seeing all this I'm going to encourage my children to become an "expert". As a career it must be on a par with politics or the law.....and you may have died of old age before you are found out!!!

For only a few months in Thailand, you seem to have it sized up well.

And if no one devises a way to permanently fix the problem, and no such plan is ever implemented, they will be dealing with something tangible again, and again, and again....