Robbers, Greedy Boat Operators Prey On Flood Victims: Thailand

[torasap]

"Extortionate prices"? It's a free market, isn't it?

You better switch on your brain first, what a stupid and unqualified comment!

I wished that you were concerned when in a necessity of transport after loosing everything from the floods.

Switch on my brain? It seems to me like you're the one who needs to switch on yours. Or maybe you just need to open your eyes for how this world works, so you can perceive mankind as it really is. I think that could be very useful for you. You may not like what you see, but hey - that's the price one has to pay (no pun intended).

If I were in the boat operators' shoes, I'd probably do the same as them. It's just that I'm not them.

For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away

Edited November 12, 2011 by torasap

[elektrified]

There are quite a few people on this forum who have no fuc#ing idea of what is really going on. Your posts are an insult to those of us suffering. Rabid opinions by a lot of people who probably don't even live in this country or are high and dry sitting on some bar stool pissing it up.

We have been flooded out for over 2 weeks now and the water is still rising! Sleep is a luxury that is grabbed every couple of hours as we continually have to pump out downstairs. Mosquito bites, open wounds and it's not getting any better. Try wading through this stinking rotten water everyday and maybe you might see the real side of this disaster.

These people who supply boat services are nothing but extortionists and I know as I have personally been on the receiving end of it every time we go out to try to get some supplies.

The first time it happened my wife arranged for some supplies to be delivered and 100 baht was agreed on, which was already a ripoff as the goods were delivered to the moo baan gate and they only had to be brought to our home. When the bitch in the boat got here she demanded 250 baht or she would not hand over the goods (goods a relative was giving us). She would have happily stolen the goods from us if we did not pay. I didn't know until after she left. If I had known it at the time it would have been a very different story.

And so it goes every day we have to go out. Boat owners demand a ridiculously high fee and if you don't pay it they just ignore you. Or as happened yesterday the bastard, after we paid him, decided that he didn't want to take us to our requested destination and told us to get off no where near we wanted to go. My wife said he received a phone call after we started and was obviously offered a bigger fee to take someone elsewhere.

Our neighbour and us now share a small boat so we can get to the gate. We usually leave the boat with the security guard (every time we do my wife gives him some money and always gives him some food when we return) and travel by other means to wherever we need to go. Yesterday when we finally got back the boat was gone. Where? The arsehol_e security guard 'rented' it out to someone else. He said he didn't think we would be back until much later.

I will bet my last baht that what I am describing here is going on all over areas that are flooded out.

This bullshit about 7 years fine and 140k baht fine for price gouging is just hot air, more thai police and government verbal diarrhoea. And don't even get me started on the 5k compo. What an insult!

Must say you really have bad luck, here the mayor made sure there is a free boat service that brings people to the front of the village. Many days there is a truck to pick people up (1 time a day). Must say the guys is great he did shame the people who refuse to pay the 300bt a month upkeep for the village to run. (people not paying it is a burden for others).

We have gotten many relief packages and free food. I think it really varies from place to place. We are in Bang Bua Thong / Bang Yai area.

But once i leave the village then yes the boat people are there to steal money. Thank god we are on a large road and military and other trucks pass. But you have to be patient and lucky to catch one.

I have heard this said before "you have really bad luck". It's not bad luck when you have thais targeting you for misfortune. Once they target you, they have a tenacity like a pit-bull. Somewhere along the way someone got pissed off at you and you probably don't know why. Now every time you turn around you have "bad luck" from a hoard or people not just the one. Luck has nothing to do with it.

I really feel sorry for you people down there, honestly. I have been reading a lot and watching the news on Thai, Japanese and Al Jazeera news channels for weeks and have seen the suffering that is going on. I have friends down there who have been displaced. I agree that disasters bring out the good and the bad in people. There are always people who profit off of others misfortune. I saw it in Los Angeles after the 1994 Northridge earthquake. Some of the things people did in Louisiana after hurricane Katrina in 2005? was shocking. But I do have to say that whoever it was on here that raised the issue of behavior of people being more extreme in a big city may have a point there. Here in Chiang Mai we had terrible flooding but I have not heard one story from anyone who had the kind of problems people in Bangkok are experiencing. We all pitched in and helped each other and everyone seemed to have a smile on their face in spite of the situation. Nobody asked for money for a ride in a boat or price gouged on the cost of basic necessities that I am aware of.

[lujanit]

It has been suggested that I have been targeted (because I am a farang??) because maybe I did something to piss someone off. Not to my knowledge. Here in the Moo Baan I pretty much keep to myself when I am here (I travel a lot for work). When this emergency started I chipped in and helped where I could and since the village has been flooded there has been nothing but co-operation between those of us who remained. Except for the security guards who are always looking for money for the simplest thing. The talk is everyone of us who remained has been subject to the same treatment so my guess is that some of these security guards will be unemployed very soon. Good riddance.

Step outside the gate and it is a different world. The first time my wife went out on her own she was gouged by a boat person yet on the same trip back a kind soul gave her a lift for nothing. She was walking in chest deep water trying to get back and was refusing to pay the amounts of money boat operators demanded.

It's just plain greed and while the thai's don't have a monopoly on greed they are right up there with the best of them; or is that the worst?

[torasap]

It's just plain greed and while the thai's don't have a monopoly on greed they are right up there with the best of them; or is that the worst?

In a free market economy and from a libertarian point of view (not that I'm one), the appropriate term is 'best'. The only difference to how it works in the United States is that in the U.S, the boat operators would get tax cuts and subsidies as well.

[Skywalker69]

"Extortionate prices"? It's a free market, isn't it?

This has nothing to do with "free market". It´s pure criminality and should be puniched.

By the way wellcome to the forum.

[EyesWideOpen]

Anti American rants...... zzzzzzzz. Let's see, back to the topic at hand !! Here is what those wonderful boat people are using in the streets to enhance their " free market" position.

As far as rip offs, the paranoid farangs should cool their jets. I would venture a guess that 90% of the people being ripped off are Thais.

[FangFerang]

I reported yesterday that motorcycle taxi drivers had taken to boats in Bangbon 3 (I didn't know their licenses allowed them to change vehicle types according to any acrimonious and villainous whim) and were soaking the locals for 100 baht for a ten minute trip. Yes, the pun is bitter as strychnine and even harder to swallow, if you see it with your own eyes. Screw it, I paid three old lady's fees before I ran out of pocket money -- the looks on their faces were simply bewildered, all around. I am not sure if I really did the right thing, but it felt correct at the time.

Today added insult to the already-multiple injuries of the poor.

A Store owner told me FROC had come this morning with a truck and boat to ferry people trapped in the Sois in Bangbon 3 across from the Sarasas school and ...the motorcycle / boat taxi drivers chased them off with threats. People are telling me "It's just Thailand", but I do not believe that. Yes, I have been ripped off by a taxi driver, including the first one I met at Suvarnibuhm in fact, but most people I encounter are decent human beings by any standards and entirely lovable--quick to laugh and forgive, easy to know and good-hearted as bread... also infuriatingly difficult to understand and seemingly as illogical as a Tesseract..but so uniquely human. It would be a poorer world without Thais in it. Another FROC truck and boat just braved the swamp two hours ago, and I hope they are unhindered.

This is not Thai--it is personal irresponsibility and vicious opportunism. If reincarnation is correct, these scum will be mosquitoes on the windshields of their victims for a thousand years, and I hope I come back as one of the victims' tires so I can smash the exoskeletons to the road.

[OzMick]

"Extortionate prices"? It's a free market, isn't it?

Actually, No, it is a monopoly controlled by the boat owners if there is no other means of transport.

OMG,..Yeah, I'm sure these boat operators carefully planned this flood and supressed any competition just so they could monopolize boat transport. Which of course would also assume all the boats were operated by the same group so as not to compete with eachother...

They don't have to plan the flood, just take advantage of it. And yes, they form a cartel, intimidate competition (as per Pogal's post) and reap extortionate fares for what is essentially a service with no alternative.

Is this difficult to comprehend - the fastest way to get stabbed is to stand between a thai and baht

[paulian]

This is such a massive disaster whatever we discuss on this forum pales into insignificance when one begins to realize just how many people are suffering from loss of income. loss of loved ones, loss of homes and it goes on. I hope the authorities take decisive action in the coming year to help avert another flood.

I agree, It's a terrible disaster for all Thai people in the Kingdom. I have donated my time, money and a load of drinking water to the effort. However, since history shows they were digging canals in the old Capital of Ayutthaya 4000 years ago to divert flood water to the sea, why would you ever think they could control another flood next year or in any year any time soon ?

Much of the infastructure is controlled and operated by many "engineers" who haven't even finished high school. As in Pattaya, where I live, doesn't take an Einstein to know to clean the storm drain covers before the rainy season, does it ?

As far as the 140,000 fine goes, that's also a joke. Considering, it's estimated many of the Jet Ski guys here in Pattaya are bringing in 100,000 a day, the boaters will be trying to match them. and the "advanced member" or whatever who mentioned it's a free market. Duh .... Thailand has specific laws on the books about raising prices during or following a disaster. As in the Los Angeles Earthquake in the 90's, I personally arrested and closed over 18 stores in the week following the disaster because of price gouging (over 15% increase in LA) 7-11 pulled the franchises from over 21 stores in the months following the earthquake. So, that was a stupid comment in my opinion, as if you even understand what a free market is or represents !

Edited November 12, 2011 by paulian

[paulian]

I am really curious about this anti-American attitude that so many Thai have. Especially in this forum. The excuses that they use are all completely false but continue to use them nevertheless. It's must be much more than the excuses that they use. I would ask what is the big issue with the US? They don't seem to bash the Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, or Euros.

Most of the Thais I know like Americans over most other farang the people they seem to hate the most are Cambodians, Burmese,Israelis(Especially in the south),Indians,Pakistani and Africans followed by the British for some reason. They also seem to like Japanese and Scandinavians(big spenders). This is not the whole society of course but it seems that their hatred is more class based than Nationality except for the Brits because they get a little loud and drunk sometimes(Like every other nationality). The bashing on these boards are mostly Europeans with American penis envy(Ungrateful for all the American blood spilled and resources wasted during two world wars plus the Marshall plan). They hate that we don't have socialism and the fact that the Euro zone is turning into a feel good social experiment failure. Most people are just that "people" the idiots that carry around a nationalistic chip on their shoulders in other countries just give everyone a bad name. A dick is a dick in any country I give everyone a fair shake no matter what their nationality(Except for those stinking Irish!!!!Jk Irish heritage).

I think what people are failing to see is most Americans are not condoning the actions of a bunch of greedy boat owners just making fact that in a predatory environment like a flood you have to expect resources like boats and transportation to be at a premium. If you own a boat are you going to go out every day and do it from free week after week? Maybe in gumdrop candyland with chocolate rivers Europe but the rest of the world has to survive in a natural disaster key word being "Disaster". You ever think that some of these people might have lost everything and are trying to recover by providing a service that is in demand? Are these people any different then the political situations going on here American and Europe? Stealing a couple 100baht for boat money pails in comparison to the money Europe is asking the US(ZERO DOLLARS that is what I as an American thing European banks should get) to bail out Greece.

You lost me around the second line, however as an American, I can assure you if Greece or any Financial Institutions need bailing out the US Congress would love to help. Even if half of the US is out of a job and we're staring at another recession ! It's what the US does best, build bombs and bail out Institutions and States who have foolishly squandered their money away with mis-management and greed.

[prasatrandy]

thais reaping of they own people in their hr of need.soon they will try to do the same too the tourist in high season

"tourists in high season"??? Maybe you haven't been reading the papers, but tourist numbers are falling faster than a rock from a skyscraper. I live in Chiang Mai and can go into town right now and count the number of tourists and not use all my fingers. However, what IS interesting is that close to 3 of every 5 cars I see on the roads here in CM now have BKK license plates on them.

My cousin in law is the manger of one of the biggest hand made umbrella and parasol shops shops in CM. They normally get about 2-3 tour buses of foreign tourists a week during high season. She told my wife last night on the phone they have had ONE in the past 2 weeks.

Another friend works at a large tourist agency. She said she the number of tours from Asian countries that have been cancelled is horrendous.

Tourists? Don't think you're gonna see to many of them this year.

When one group shuts dodwn the airports, another group puts the city on fire, the jetski-tuktuk scams at the beaches, the shoplifting scam at the airport, the tourist are now saying "We should have been coming to Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia or Cambodia along time ago. Why bother with Thailand"

[arthurwait]

This country is beyong salvation. Good Spirits! Get real.......most big corporations were donating cash and goods because they were promised 150% tax rebates. (please refer to all ealier govt announcemenst and appeals for help.) and then many thais, yes were volunteering their services and donating goods. (according to their distorted versions of buddhism) by doing such acts of tamboon, they get their sins cleansed off....so you get people who cheat millions donating a few thousand baht of goods or small scale sinners offerring smaller amts of foods, in hope to eradicate all their sins and gain merit. Most of the volunteers at the centres were enjoying free meals and goodies. Channel Three raised a lot of money from public donations that went into paying their celebrity actors to make appearances, their transportation costs and hotel accomodations and also for the cost of production of their channel 3 relief bags that had their logos on it. Once produccer at a particular segment at Channel three was boasting how the donatione was totally subsidising his segment!

As for overcharging, there was and still there is not any bottled water at places like 7-11, tops, big c etc but outside of Bic C, etc , the bottlers of NamThip are supplying smaller vendors stocks who are then overcharging the consumers. Make a complain and they challenge you to call the police!

Was watching on TV , how some of these poeple have no sense of self respect, when their communities are flooded and they know because of the officals in charge, they will still wai when these officials come to see them or even give them a pathetic relief bag. These people will sell their mothers for a Bt 100!

Now for the most interesting part to all you foreign TV posters and readers. Got a few distrubing news that a few foreigners were turned away form some of the evacuation centres and in certain cases when relief packages were given out, foreigners were not allowed. (I am not talking about the migrant workers from Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia....who off course the thais deprived them of anything reliefs and foods) but actual farands and a few malaysian chinese. Beer Chang and Singha started small centres selling bottkled water at normal prices and proof of thai identity was needed before you can buy the water. <deleted>! Why aren't the embassies doing anything about this discrimination! Foreigners should avoid buying beer chang and singha beer and also establishments that stock them.

Yet we have a lot of foreign aid coming in!

I simply give up. The locals deserve what they get. This country s beyong salvation!

Probably down to who needs it most and as farangs living here are meant to have a minimum of 65000 baht a month they aren't really the people most in need. Serviced apartment = 10,000 baht/month.

[arthurwait]

ROBBERS? GREEDY? Did anybody notice what 'color' their red shirts were????????????????

amazing somebody always has to bring this into these threads. i wonder or you people as interested in your own countries polotics as the Thai ones.

its only to be expected that they will do this, its thailand everybody out for themselves, but they dont have a lot so i guess thats the way they are brought up.

3000 baht to recover a car, thats about 2 weeks salary when you have already lost every thing, so for me it is a lot.

While I do understad the going wage for basic jobs is 6,000 baht/month (hence your 3,000 baht being two weeks wage), how many of those minimum wage workers have cars?

I've been in many, many countries - Thailand has the fewest jallopies (old, junk cars) of any place I have ever been. Most cars are near new, with 600,000 baht+ price tags. Anyone that can afford such a luxury, can afford to pay 3,000 baht to have it salvaged from a flood.

Unfortunately Thais,like many other cultures, have a thing about appearances. They will sleep on the floor of a B1500 a month room,

eat the cheapest food and still manage to have a shiny car or truck to drive around in. It's apparently something to do with "face".

Nobody goes to their room, but everyone sees their car. It's all an illusion. Same with the girls working for B10,000 a month with an Ipod

phone costing a months salary or more. Credit is a "wonderful" thing

While I agree with the face thing -. You see houses with cars worth more parked outside, but not people on 6000 a month. 20000 maybe 30000 a month minimum ( maybe between 2 wages ).

A lot of girls on low wages with expensive phones may have them bought for them by their 'boyfriends' met in bars or internet. One for/from each boyfriend.

Edited November 12, 2011 by arthurwait

[torasap]

"Extortionate prices"? It's a free market, isn't it?

This has nothing to do with "free market". It´s pure criminality and should be puniched.

By the way wellcome to the forum.

Thank you, Skywalker69

At least, it should be a crime to take such advantage. However, I'm not familiar with Thailand's usury laws, and can therefore not take such laws into consideration.

"Free market" means freedom to form cartels and freedom to charge whatever you want... and freedom for the others to not use services which they can't afford. Oh, and it also means freedom for the government to subsidize such cartels and give them tax cuts. If the banks can do this, then so can the boat operators.

[Skywalker69]

"Extortionate prices"? It's a free market, isn't it?

This has nothing to do with "free market". It´s pure criminality and should be puniched.

By the way wellcome to the forum.

Thank you, Skywalker69

At least, it should be a crime to take such advantage. However, I'm not familiar with Thailand's usury laws, and can therefore not take such laws into consideration.

"Free market" means freedom to form cartels and freedom to charge whatever you want... and freedom for the others to not use services which they can't afford. Oh, and it also means freedom for the government to subsidize such cartels and give them tax cuts. If the banks can do this, then so can the boat operators.

Exactly!

God night to you all, stay safe and dry.

Tomorrow is another day. :jap:

[nullx8]

"Extortionate prices"? It's a free market, isn't it?

Actually, No, it is a monopoly controlled by the boat owners if there is no other means of transport.

A monopoly would be when one person or one company owns all the boats.

absolutly true.

The Mafia is also not owned by one person/Company

Haha, such a useless thread.

[FangFerang]

Just couldn't wait to have the chance to bash America could you? Could you share with us why you are so Anti-American in a separate topic perhaps? No need for your anti American remarks in this thread.

As you were quoting me (wrongly i might add) i will reply.

I have seen this argument before and its mostly American's saying its free market. While most Europeans don't agree. So its not American bashing if its based on facts. I had someone (also American) defending the high price of water and saying it was good so only people who really need it would buy it then saying else it would be wasted.

So call bashing if you like but its based on facts. I have nothing against Americans, and im sure there are a Americans who will also not condone this. But many swear with free market while this is different in Europe.

During hurricane Isabelle in Virginia, it flooded, badly. There were dolphins on the runways at Langley Air Force Base. There was also a price freeze mandate that was strictly enforced across the region for all essentials: being ice(no power), water, bread, eggs, and medicines (etc). I entirely agree with the Europeans here. Capitalism must be controlled in many situations.

[prvtdetdave]

"Extortionate prices"? It's a free market, isn't it?

Actually, No, it is a monopoly controlled by the boat owners if there is no other means of transport.

A monopoly would be when one person or one company owns all the boats. That isn't the case here. Where I live there are laws against price gouging in emergencies. To me that has never made any sense. For example if I sold bottled water, and there was a tornado 200 miles away, why would I travel that far if I could just stay at home and sell it for the same price. However if I could charge any price I wanted to do, I might make the effort, and thus help meet a critical shortage.

The high price of boat transport will induce other boat owners to go that neighborhood, and thus by the law of supply and demand. lower the prices. And for every family that is "forced" to pay the high boat price, it only means that the good samaritans are able to help another family that really can't afford that price.

In my home country republicans call it a free market.

In my profession we call it criminal thinking.

So only the rich who can afford to have goods moved by boat will be able to do so.

It's still extortion.

When the flood is over, I hope the Thai people exact retribution. I want to see the predator become the prey.

[robblok]

Just couldn't wait to have the chance to bash America could you? Could you share with us why you are so Anti-American in a separate topic perhaps? No need for your anti American remarks in this thread.

As you were quoting me (wrongly i might add) i will reply.

I have seen this argument before and its mostly American's saying its free market. While most Europeans don't agree. So its not American bashing if its based on facts. I had someone (also American) defending the high price of water and saying it was good so only people who really need it would buy it then saying else it would be wasted.

So call bashing if you like but its based on facts. I have nothing against Americans, and im sure there are a Americans who will also not condone this. But many swear with free market while this is different in Europe.

During hurricane Isabelle in Virginia, it flooded, badly. There were dolphins on the runways at Langley Air Force Base. There was also a price freeze mandate that was strictly enforced across the region for all essentials: being ice(no power), water, bread, eggs, and medicines (etc). I entirely agree with the Europeans here. Capitalism must be controlled in many situations.

I agree there, and i was not bashing Americans, just stating that more Americans then Europeans think that this is a free market and a good thing. Just cultural differences, never said all Americans think the same. I am sure there are Europeans who think this is free market and good. But in general its more an American idea.

[robblok]

Just couldn't wait to have the chance to bash America could you? Could you share with us why you are so Anti-American in a separate topic perhaps? No need for your anti American remarks in this thread.

As you were quoting me (wrongly i might add) i will reply.

I have seen this argument before and its mostly American's saying its free market. While most Europeans don't agree. So its not American bashing if its based on facts. I had someone (also American) defending the high price of water and saying it was good so only people who really need it would buy it then saying else it would be wasted.

So call bashing if you like but its based on facts. I have nothing against Americans, and im sure there are a Americans who will also not condone this. But many swear with free market while this is different in Europe.

During hurricane Isabelle in Virginia, it flooded, badly. There were dolphins on the runways at Langley Air Force Base. There was also a price freeze mandate that was strictly enforced across the region for all essentials: being ice(no power), water, bread, eggs, and medicines (etc). I entirely agree with the Europeans here. Capitalism must be controlled in many situations.

I agree there, and i was not bashing Americans, just stating that more Americans then Europeans think that this is a free market and a good thing. Just cultural differences, never said all Americans think the same. I am sure there are Europeans who think this is free market and good. But in general its more an American idea.

[maidu]

It would be so easy to set up a couple of sting operations,.....

Thai authorities are not capable of setting up sting operations. Not for selling endangered animals and animal parts - nor for extortionist jet ski operators, nor taxi rip-offs in Phuket, nor gem swindlers, ......nor for any other rip offs that would be rife for 'sting operation.'

The only time Thai authorities have come close to pulling off successful sting operations - have been with farang guidance - such as a few busts of endangered animal (and parts) traffickers. Similarly, with international terrorists hiding in Thailand - the only successful busts have been with farang impetus.

[TAWP]

Apart from extreme cases, which in basic terms are anti-capitalistic, the free market is the best solution and approach to this.

If a boat comes to two houses, can only fit one family, is the boat-owner wrong for taking the family who is pledging to pay the highest price for the ride?

The other edge-cases so many are talking about is oligopoly or cartel-structures, which clearly are anti-free market.

Don't blame the free market nor the US (*sigh*) for that. Blame the individuals involved in it.

[lounger]

The good Pol General knows where the overcharging is taking place (from complaints??) and has obviously reacted accordingly. No charges laid, but a fair percentage of the profits appropriated.

Next we wil have the pattaya jet ski crowd coming in....

"violation of the Prices of Goods and Services Act, BE 2542, for overcharging face sentences of seven years in jail and/or fines of up to Bt140,000, Piya said."

Oh yea protect Thai people shopping. What about protecting the tourists. Apply this Goods and services act to the Pattaya jetski scams in Pattaya

[robblok]

Apart from extreme cases, which in basic terms are anti-capitalistic, the free market is the best solution and approach to this.

If a boat comes to two houses, can only fit one family, is the boat-owner wrong for taking the family who is pledging to pay the highest price for the ride?

The other edge-cases so many are talking about is oligopoly or cartel-structures, which clearly are anti-free market.

Don't blame the free market nor the US (*sigh*) for that. Blame the individuals involved in it.

Kinda depends, if one family has a child that needs to go to a hospital and not a big wallet.

I have no problem with a free market but this is not a free market. There are cartels (who use force on others) and this situation arose too quick for a fair free market to evolve. Plus a free market does not work really well in emergency situations like this.

I understand perfectly well that water will be more expensive but there are of course limits. Also you don't really have a choice here you either pay it or don't have something to drink and die.

Most people here defending this as a free market were Americans, I have no problem with them. Just say that its more an American mind set then European. We like to have some rules in place to grantee fairness. Now you can call me an American basher for that ill accept it. I honestly don't see how this is bashing.

But after reading some stuff of Paulie who was a cop in the USA there seem to have been some rules there in place too for emergency situations. So it seems they know how to deal with profiteers there too.

[TAWP]

I have no problem with a free market but this is not a free market. There are cartels (who use force on others) and this situation arose too quick for a fair free market to evolve. Plus a free market does not work really well in emergency situations like this.

You are right, it isn't a free market, under those specific conditions you mention. But that is the issue here, you guys mix apples and oranges - a store selling local show selling water to a higher price than normal isn't necessarily greed or and act of evil. I see many shops here that sell water, all for different prices, and most seem to have traveled to different other locations to purchase them. If you don't like the price, go to another shop. Or push the government to force all prices to remain the same as before the flood crisis and none of these shops will sell any water since it will not cost the increased costs to purchase it.

What do you rather want?

[robblok]

I have no problem with a free market but this is not a free market. There are cartels (who use force on others) and this situation arose too quick for a fair free market to evolve. Plus a free market does not work really well in emergency situations like this.

You are right, it isn't a free market, under those specific conditions you mention. But that is the issue here, you guys mix apples and oranges - a store selling local show selling water to a higher price than normal isn't necessarily greed or and act of evil. I see many shops here that sell water, all for different prices, and most seem to have traveled to different other locations to purchase them. If you don't like the price, go to another shop. Or push the government to force all prices to remain the same as before the flood crisis and none of these shops will sell any water since it will not cost the increased costs to purchase it.

What do you rather want?

You left out the part of my quote where i accepted water being more expensive. I really accept things being a bit more expensive right now. Its harder to get supplies. But there is a difference between a bit more expensive and gauging like the boat people are doing. Like 300 baht for a 5 min trip. Stuff like that.

The 711 here is getting resupplied after 3 weeks of being cut of. I don't even look at the prices of the water that i am buying. I don't care its a honest shop. I am talking about the boats and the spiking of tires and scaring off people.

Here we got a free boat inside the village. Great, no greed.

[Scott]

A series of off-topic posts have been deleted. Please stick to the topic of the OP.

[KKvampire]

This is such a massive disaster whatever we discuss on this forum pales into insignificance when one begins to realize just how many people are suffering from loss of income. loss of loved ones, loss of homes and it goes on. I hope the authorities take decisive action in the coming year to help avert another flood.

I agree, It's a terrible disaster for all Thai people in the Kingdom. I have donated my time, money and a load of drinking water to the effort. However, since history shows they were digging canals in the old Capital of Ayutthaya 4000 years ago to divert flood water to the sea, why would you ever think they could control another flood next year or in any year any time soon ?

Much of the infastructure is controlled and operated by many "engineers" who haven't even finished high school. As in Pattaya, where I live, doesn't take an Einstein to know to clean the storm drain covers before the rainy season, does it ?

As far as the 140,000 fine goes, that's also a joke. Considering, it's estimated many of the Jet Ski guys here in Pattaya are bringing in 100,000 a day, the boaters will be trying to match them. and the "advanced member" or whatever who mentioned it's a free market. Duh .... Thailand has specific laws on the books about raising prices during or following a disaster. As in the Los Angeles Earthquake in the 90's, I personally arrested and closed over 18 stores in the week following the disaster because of price gouging (over 15% increase in LA) 7-11 pulled the franchises from over 21 stores in the months following the earthquake. So, that was a stupid comment in my opinion, as if you even understand what a free market is or represents !

+1 but imagine going to the police in Thailand and making an official complaint and inviting them to investigate. They are more likely to demand money from you for bothering them. The Police as always have been useless during the flood disaster. I was told by a Thai friend they went home and dealt with their own personal problems with flooding

[paulian]

This is such a massive disaster whatever we discuss on this forum pales into insignificance when one begins to realize just how many people are suffering from loss of income. loss of loved ones, loss of homes and it goes on. I hope the authorities take decisive action in the coming year to help avert another flood.

I agree, It's a terrible disaster for all Thai people in the Kingdom. I have donated my time, money and a load of drinking water to the effort. However, since history shows they were digging canals in the old Capital of Ayutthaya 4000 years ago to divert flood water to the sea, why would you ever think they could control another flood next year or in any year any time soon ?

Much of the infastructure is controlled and operated by many "engineers" who haven't even finished high school. As in Pattaya, where I live, doesn't take an Einstein to know to clean the storm drain covers before the rainy season, does it ?

As far as the 140,000 fine goes, that's also a joke. Considering, it's estimated many of the Jet Ski guys here in Pattaya are bringing in 100,000 a day, the boaters will be trying to match them. and the "advanced member" or whatever who mentioned it's a free market. Duh .... Thailand has specific laws on the books about raising prices during or following a disaster. As in the Los Angeles Earthquake in the 90's, I personally arrested and closed over 18 stores in the week following the disaster because of price gouging (over 15% increase in LA) 7-11 pulled the franchises from over 21 stores in the months following the earthquake. So, that was a stupid comment in my opinion, as if you even understand what a free market is or represents !

+1 but imagine going to the police in Thailand and making an official complaint and inviting them to investigate. They are more likely to demand money from you for bothering them. The Police as always have been useless during the flood disaster. I was told by a Thai friend they went home and dealt with their own personal problems with flooding

Yea, I've heard that a few times. Unless it's a capital crime or one that will generate great publicity for the BIB, they want to be paid for many investigations. For instance motorbike theft. Lose a bike they won't even come out, you go in and fill out the forms and leave and usually never see the bike again. However, start waving around 1000bt bills and there's a good chance the bike will show up in a few days. I've seen it. Domestic violence reports and there are hundreds of them here. The abused women fill out a form and the case is usually forgot about. Start waving around 1000bt bills and an officer is out there in an hour. No dought they are sadly underpaid, however, they were the ones who worked so hard to get the position. It's just a never ending, perplexing, frustrating situation. When we had the Hurricane in New Orleans a few years ago, many officers also deserted and tended to their families even though they were assured there families would get priorities in every way. The difference being they were all fired and blackballed from the profession for life. Many times that is the big difference between a 3rd world country and a 1st, accountability. There's not always a whole lot of accountability here in Law enforcement, but I can assure you from personal experience there are many more hard working, honest Police officers in the country than foreigners give credit for. and ... I also believe there are many more honest one's than there are the other type.

Edited November 13, 2011 by paulian

[razer]

wow a 140000 baht fine....................so when tis all over lets see how many people get fined????? I think we know the answer already. Thai love Thai

A law must be enforcable to have value. The Japanese showed the world what national pride means. Time for Thais to learn that national pride is not the king or temples or beaches. National pride is what they do as a people and this is what the world sees.

Edited November 14, 2011 by razer