Thai Cabinet Endorses Thaksin Amnesty Plan: Reports

[frodo]

RT @tulsathit: Chalerm condemns as "soulless" Cabinet source who leaked what was discussed at closed door meeting to reporters.

Soulless would be more akin to a father who allows his son to flee from murder charges then threatens and intimidates witnesses allowing his son to walk free. Matter of perception I guess, since I would consider the cabinet member who leaked the information more of a righteous person.

[sparebox2]

ROYAL AMNESTY

Justice Ministry to study royal amnesty details: Chalerm

The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung on Wednesday said a Justice Ministry panel will be formed to study the details of the annual royal amnesty to mark HM the King's birthday in December.

The justice minister would forward the draft for cabinet endorsement and then to Council of State. If it were in order, the Cabinet's secretary general would present it for endorsement.

Talk about back seat. It's very appropriate that the Justice Minister is the head of FROC.

Supposedly, he's not busy with that task and so has the free time to study and submit the pardon application.

.

Justice Minister is free because all courts are closed in BKK due to flood.

[hammered]

If what they do is legal and democratic there should be no problem. If what they do is illegal or undemocratic it should be a problem.

And of course as of yet we dont even know if this was really discussed or is just made up or if it was discussed that it was discussed as stated, but in the final analysis it is just about is it done legally and democratically. If it is then there is no problem.

[maeab]

Lets hope when he flys in we can setup a welcome party for him I will be there when the evil one returns.

Edited November 16, 2011 by maeab

[webfact]

Thai opposition anger at Thaksin pardon reports

by Thanaporn Promyamyai

BANGKOK, November 16, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand's cabinet has reportedly endorsed a controversial royal pardon that could allow the return of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, prompting an angry response from the opposition.

Thai media reports said a draft decree for an amnesty was approved at a cabinet meeting on Tuesday which Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra missed.

Yingluck, who is Thaksin's younger sister and widely seen as his proxy, has yet to comment, but her deputy who chaired the meeting said it was "secret" as it discussed issues related to the king.

The rumours sparked a torrent of speculation on social media websites and in the Thai press, coming at a politically sensitive time, with Yingluck facing strong criticism for her handling of Thailand's worst flooding in decades.

The decree, which would need to be approved by King Bhumibol Adulyadej, would apply to "convicts who are at least 60 years old and are sentenced to under three years in jail", the Bangkok Post English daily said on Wednesday.

Royal pardons are granted each year on the king's birthday on December 5.

Thaksin, who was ousted by the army in a 2006 coup, is 62 years old and lives in self-imposed exile in Dubai to avoid a two-year prison term for corruption.

Political novice Yingluck, 44, led the Puea Thai party to election victory in July on the back of her brother's popularity among Thailand's rural poor.

She was absent from Tuesday's cabinet meeting because she was visiting a flood-stricken province, reports said.

The return of Thaksin, a deeply divisive figure in Thailand, would anger his foes in the Bangkok-based elites in the military, palace and bureaucracy and could spark further turmoil after years of violent protests.

The reported draft pardon was immediately criticised by the opposition Democrats, whose own decree last year excluded corruption convictions.

"It shows that what they have done is intended to help one person," Democrat deputy party spokesman Sakoltee Phattiyakul told AFP, predicting the move would make for a "tense" political situation in the kingdom.

"Because even though the floods are not yet over, the cabinet still approved the decree."

Democrat lawmaker Sirichok Sopha added that such a pardon "would be a very sad day for Thailand and the rule of law" and "split the country even more".

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubumrung told reporters at parliament he had chaired Tuesday's cabinet meeting, where two topics were discussed.

"But because it was a secret meeting, with no final decisions and matters related to the king's power, the government cannot speak," he said.

"The government will not violate any law. I can't give details," he added, when asked about the decree.

After his sister's election win, Thaksin said setting foot back in Thailand was not a priority, but he has previously expressed hopes to be at his daughter's wedding in December.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-11-16

[webfact]

RT @tulsathit: Foreign Minister Surapong: There won't b political chaos over amnesty. This is a govt elected by 15 million ppl.

[webfact]

RT @tulsathit: Sondhi L: This amnesty plan is for just one man. It's such a low point. #smsMGR

[maeab]

His karma will get him and his evil family soon!

[JayBangkok]

Maybe he will get the same welcome that Ben Aquino got albeit for different reasons.

[OZEMADE]

I'm not exactly a fan of both sides and I think that bringing Thaksin back will not be in anyway beneficial to Thailand. It's a start of another crisis.

I agree I think both sides are as bad as one another.

The place has never been out of crisis since Thaksin left, now he has the backing of the Military, the Police, the Government and more importantly his X-wife. Who I remind you has got the rest of the cash and they will probably get back together. I say the place cant get any worse, bring old matey back.

[Kilgore Trout]

Seems like if he returned and started to serve his jail sentence, there would be a greater chance of his being released and some sort of amnesty given.

But I guess he is unwilling to "man up."

This is the same guy who likened himself to Nelson Mandela

[sparebox2]

Can anyone tell me why Thailand wants to let bad people walk?

Correct me if I am wrong. The more you forgive, the more merit (known as BOON in Thai) you will receive for your next life right? I think that is the idea.

So, if you let a small thieve free, you will receive a small BOON. If you let a big moron murderer off, you will receive big BOON.

If my logic is right, letting the big bad wolf Thaksin walk will receive Trillion of BOON, much more than letting all the known criminals off PUT TOGETHER.

Is my logic correct?

[Buchholz]

RT @tulsathit: Chalerm condemns as "soulless" Cabinet source who leaked what was discussed at closed door meeting to reporters.

Soulless would be more akin to a father who allows his son to flee from murder charges then threatens and intimidates witnesses allowing his son to walk free. Matter of perception I guess, since I would consider the cabinet member who leaked the information more of a righteous person.

A whistle-blower.

A person with a conscience.

And a potential victim like the deceased Shipping Moo, who was both.

.

[Soutpeel]

This is the same guy who likened himself to Nelson Mandela

There are similarites....both were accused of/or convicted of terrorism..

[Buchholz]

ROYAL AMNESTY

Justice Ministry to study royal amnesty details: Chalerm

The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung on Wednesday said a Justice Ministry panel will be formed to study the details of the annual royal amnesty to mark HM the King's birthday in December.

The justice minister would forward the draft for cabinet endorsement and then to Council of State. If it were in order, the Cabinet's secretary general would present it for endorsement.

Talk about back seat. It's very appropriate that the Justice Minister is the head of FROC.

Supposedly, he's not busy with that task and so has the free time to study and submit the pardon application.

Justice Minister is free because all courts are closed in BKK due to flood.

Yes, and as for the flood the "worst is apparently over" AND "we're nearly through it"... so no need to do anything at FROC he can do some other work.

If FROC headquarters floods again and they need to move again, he can always return and spend an hour or so with them.

.

.

[HerbalEd]

I'm not exactly a fan of both sides and I think that bringing Thaksin back will not be in anyway beneficial to Thailand. It's a start of another crisis.

I agree I think both sides are as bad as one another.

The place has never been out of crisis since Thaksin left, now he has the backing of the Military, the Police, the Government and more importantly his X-wife. Who I remind you has got the rest of the cash and they will probably get back together. I say the place cant get any worse, bring old matey back.

Are you being glib here, or what? Indeed "the place" can get worse ... much, much worse.

[sparebox2]

This is the same guy who likened himself to Nelson Mandela

There are similarites....both were accused of/or convicted of terrorism..

Nelson was a bad terrorit. But his 20 plus years make him a good man.

Thaksin should follow Nelson footstep.

[HerbalEd]

Can anyone tell me why Thailand wants to let bad people walk?

Correct me if I am wrong. The more you forgive, the more merit (known as BOON in Thai) you will receive for your next life right? I think that is the idea.

So, if you let a small thieve free, you will receive a small BOON. If you let a big moron murderer off, you will receive big BOON.

If my logic is right, letting the big bad wolf Thaksin walk will receive Trillion of BOON, much more than letting all the known criminals off PUT TOGETHER.

Is my logic correct?

You can be sure that some people will receive "merit" in the form of millions-of-baht from Thaksin.

[hammered]

Bangkok pundit has a full look at the collective pardon (as it should be termed) issue complete with history. Some anti-Thaksininstas seem to think that it is the most acceptable way to get over the Thaksin issue too. Basically it seems likely the cabinet, which is acting as other cabinets have, would just take last years Dem terminology and remove only one clause - the clause excluding those convicted of corruption which was inserted to target Thaksin at that time. The process is bascially the cabinet makes any recommendation it likes and the decision is then made under prerogative. Of course that Thaksin is a huge political issue is going to make this heated but reality is that without resolving the Thaksin issue, there will never be reconcilliation, and increrasingly more people who dont like Thaksin realise that an accomodation is needed. Still could all end up in coups, if the military hol together, and violent reactions to them if things go too far.

Pushing this now with the country suffering is poltically risky to say the least, but then again violently opposing it is too. It just depends on where the sympathy of the people lies - putting it off to a better time when the country has moved forward or just getting it over now so the country can move forward.

One thing is for sure the country doesnt need any poltical accidents or changes of government right now that will result in delays and neutral gears as people and industry want to see recovery

[Buchholz]

And of course as of yet we dont even know if this was really discussed or is just made up or if it was discussed that it was discussed as stated

That's a problem in itself.

The grossest lack of transparency, the "secrets", the running off to Indonesia, the Sgt. Schultz's I know nothings, the dime novel theatrics of mystery and intrigue.

When so much is hidden, especially when it's so clumsily done, people are going to think the worse.

That is natural and expected.

.

[theanimaster]

Whenever I feel my blood boiling over the stupidity of the Thais and the blatantly corrupt scumbags they elect into office, I just think back home at George W. Bush. He's a much bigger scumbag than Thaksin -- in fact makes Big T. look like small-time fish... then I realize that we are not very unsimilar to the "blind stupid Thais".

[DP25]

RT @tulsathit: Foreign Minister Surapong: There won't b political chaos over amnesty. This is a govt elected by 15 million ppl.

Are they out of their minds? They really think there will be no chaos, or they are just prepared to crush the resistance? The previous government was voted for by 14 million people (just the Dems alone more with coalition partners) and there was political chaos. And in this election 20 million people did not vote for PTP. They are plunging the country towards civil war. They must figure the disaster they caused is so great people won't have the strength to oppose them.

[eezergood]

I'm not exactly a fan of both sides and I think that bringing Thaksin back will not be in anyway beneficial to Thailand. It's a start of another crisis.

I agree I think both sides are as bad as one another.

The place has never been out of crisis since Thaksin left, now he has the backing of the Military, the Police, the Government and more importantly his X-wife. Who I remind you has got the rest of the cash and they will probably get back together. I say the place cant get any worse, bring old matey back.

Are you being glib here, or what? Indeed "the place" can get worse ... much, much worse.

Sure it can, "he' can come back and begin the puch for nuclear energy AGAIN! You think this is a crisis, just wait for the day someone forgets somehting in a nuclear powerplant!

[Soutpeel]

Thaksin should follow Nelson footstep.

Yes 27 years in a jail cell would be good start...

[steveromagnino]

This isn't an amnesty. It is a pardon. The members need to understand this important difference.

As I understand it, there is a considerable number of other outstanding charges against the man that have not been tried yet.

What stops / protects him from being arrested and detained for any or all of those?

PT have already stated it is their intention to change the constitution 2007 edition, and in it, it is assumed that they intend to remove the authority of the parties who gathered evidence against Thaksin; thus the trial would not happen as the PROCESS would be unauthorised. Obviously, as anyone who knows how TRT ran, if it goes to court then he would be found guilty* since the evidence is completely overwhelming and any one of the (IIRC) 17 cases against Thaksin and/or associates would be enough to completely sink the Shinawatra ship; therefore....solution is make the process disappear and the cases disappear also.

This is the PT mentality; government by popularity; instead of a typical democracy the rest of the world over where justice and the 4th estate provide a meaningful check and balance on government, they wish to run ALL aspects based on popularity; as long as they have 50.1% of the popular vote...they should be allowed to do WHATEVER they want (including allowing ministers into the cabinet who helped their sons get off murder charges, stacking their friends into every government department, distributing help/budgets to their friends and their supporters ahead of the general populace, giving jobs to their friends instead of people who know what they are doing, lying to the press and the public about what they are doing, regulating the media as they see fit, dispensing justice that favours what they wish to acheive) based on POPULARITY.

And they aren't the only ones:

This is Thailand and the present government won a fair election. What is being done is being decided by Thais and those of you who do not like it and/or the decisions being made should go back and put your own country to right.

Apparently, as long as you win an election you can do what you want. Now, in the past, aside from cheating in his asset declaration, Thaksin also hushed up his son cheating at University; alledgedly 'influenced officials' to get his daughter into Chula despite lack of grades; fiddled the legislation to increase family wealth approx 3X in 5 years; drove media freedom in Thailand down from 46th to 100+ in transparency/freedom of the press; held cabinet meetings with no notes; oversaw the war on drugs; destabilised the south and stuffed up the chicken flu, tsunami and even the purchase of Liverpool. The few policies of any worth like 30b healthcare were a mess, and have taken years to get sorted out. Against all of that.....we should forgive him for his mistakes and outright corruption, solely because he is popular??!

Hypothetically, what if he murdered someone? Is that ok?

What if he stole money? Is that ok?

This is the crudest most idiotic approach to justice, where the rich and famous have a completely different set of rules to adher to. Now....hold up wasn't that the whole Prai vs. Amartaya mantra that drove the red shirts; they want a single set of rules for everyone?

Well....you cannot have both; and this is where a carefully crafted deck of cards completely falls apart....because the red shirt movement is fighting for justice for all and equality.....but this is the most corrupt and selfish act yet.

Mike Tyson was hugely popular when convicted of rape; no he should never have been tried, because he was a highly popular heavyweight champ.

I thought Manson was kind of cool, with those freaky eyes....nah let's not convict him because he's nice.

No doubt Voice TV and the plethora of mindless drivel from Nattawut/Jatuporn etc will somehow make sense if you listen to it enough times. Just like the big bag fiasco...yes, it's a dumb idea to do 1. But if you do it enough times...then it will make sense.

* unless the case is tried by influenced judges as occured in the last open/shut case of Thaksin where he fraudulently put assets into his maid's name and then tried to claim it was 'an honest mistake' when caught; or Chalerm's son's case relating to Club 20; or if the people who gifted Karun Hontrakul his fraudulent degree are the judges in the case; or the judges from the Paquiao-Marquez III fight

[HerbalEd]

Wow this is unbelievable. Millions still affected by the flood and now we see where this government's priorities lie. The country can be in shambles but they don't care as long as they can bring their beloved leader back. Shameful!

what's shameful is the man who did more positive things for thailand than anyone in recent history was couped out of office and forced into exile.

He wasn't forced ... he ran away like the criminal he is.

[bkkjames]

All I can say is the stock market will go up no matter what happens that's bad.

[Buchholz]

RT @tulsathit: Chalerm condemns as "soulless" Cabinet source who leaked what was discussed at closed door meeting to reporters.

Soulless would be more akin to a father who allows his son to flee from murder charges then threatens and intimidates witnesses allowing his son to walk free. Matter of perception I guess, since I would consider the cabinet member who leaked the information more of a righteous person.

A whistle-blower.

A person with a conscience.

And a potential victim like the deceased Shipping Moo, who was both.

A coincidental reference back to the deceased Shipping Moo. His confidant Sirichok's words on the current issue harken back to the demise of his associate.

Thai opposition anger at Thaksin pardon reports

Democrat lawmaker Sirichok Sopha added that such a pardon "would be a very sad day for Thailand and the rule of law" and "split the country even more".

[bigbamboo]

Whenever I feel my blood boiling over the stupidity of the Thais and the blatantly corrupt scumbags they elect into office, I just think back home at George W. Bush. He's a much bigger scumbag than Thaksin -- in fact makes Big T. look like small-time fish... then I realize that we are not very unsimilar to the "blind stupid Thais".

Most non Americans would agree with you!

Edited November 16, 2011 by bigbamboo

[theanimaster]

The only way Thaksin's legacy will ever be put to rest is if Thailand becomes the next Egypt/Libya.

What are the odds?