No Public Debate Allowed In 'Secret' Draft On Amnesty: Chalerm

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AMNESTY

No public debate allowed in 'secret' draft on amnesty: Chalerm

The Nation

The government will not release details of the draft decree for amnesty before it is endorsed by the palace, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said yesterday, adding that it needed to be kept confidential to avoid public debate.

"Every pardon is granted at each government's discretion and there is no law dictating that every pardon should be the same," he said in his rebuttal to an urgent motion filed by the Democrats.

Chalerm said the decree would be within legal boundaries and that the draft was not designed to favour a single individual, like former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He added that the government was relying on a draft prepared by a Justice Ministry panel that was formed under the previous Democrat-led administration.

The draft is being kept confidential due to several factors, such as an incomplete drafting process and vetting by the Council of State, he said, adding that he could face impeachment proceedings if he disclosed details about a Cabinet debate held behind closed doors.

Chalerm added that a debate on the subject could cause confusion because the enforcement of pardon provisions might differ from the draft. He said there were several cases in which royal clemency was granted despite opposition from the Justice Ministry.

Democrat MP Satit Wongnongtaey said he wanted an explanation as to why the government had departed from the legal tradition of granting pardon to a broader group of individuals rather than just those sentenced by the judiciary. He voiced suspicion that the new classification was meant to apply to fugitives like Thaksin.

He also criticised Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and said she was being irresponsible by finding a pretext to stay away from the Cabinet debate.

Meanwhile, Tul Sitthisomwong, leader of the multi-coloured shirts, lodged a complaint with the Council of State against the draft decree. He said opponents of the decree would hold a rally at Lumpini Park today to air their opposition to pardoning Thaksin.

Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piumsombun said the Cabinet debate on pardon should not be kept confidential because it would have an impact on a large number of people.

"Thaksin was a police cadet and should remain a gentleman," he said, adding that royal pardon should only be granted to those who show remorse and are not fugitives. He added that during his time as interior minister in Thaksin's reign, he had advised against pardon sought by a daughter for her fugitive father.

-- The Nation 2011-11-18

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, goooooollleeee, I guess they're a-sure doing what's right; nobody in public could POSSIBLY object to anything that Chalerm would want to be secret.

Sure is nice that now that that awful FLOODING thing is done and over and all, that the DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER can finally be seen to be doing something IMPORTANT for a change.

[samran]

With stories such as this, I often wonder if the coup government had more democratic tendencies than the current mob.

[Ricardo]

"to avoid public debate"

Well 'Yay for Red Democracy', and for Freedom-of-Speech or Transparency or any of those other inconvenient things, now discarded by the government. One might suspect that the 'big boss' doesn't really believe in them after all ?

[Buchholz]

Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piumsombun said the Cabinet debate on pardon should not be kept confidential because it would have an impact on a large number of people.

"Thaksin was a police cadet and should remain a gentleman," he said, adding that royal pardon should only be granted to those who show remorse and are not fugitives.

He added that during his time as interior minister in Thaksin's reign, he had advised against pardon sought by a daughter for her fugitive father.

It would seem the rift between former Thai Rak Thai Purachai and former Thai Rak Thai Thaksin is still well in place.

Do his last words refer to the murderer Kamnan Poh, who fled from punishment during Thakin's regime?

Staggering that we hear more from Chalerm in the last 2 days than we had during weeks and weeks of flooding.

.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[timekeeper]

Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piumsombun said the Cabinet debate on pardon should not be kept confidential because it would have an impact on a large number of people.

"Thaksin was a police cadet and should remain a gentleman," he said, adding that royal pardon should only be granted to those who show remorse and are not fugitives.

He added that during his time as interior minister in Thaksin's reign, he had advised against pardon sought by a daughter for her fugitive father.

It would seem the rift between former Thai Rak Thai Purachai and former Thai Rak Thai Thaksin is still well in place.

Do his last words refer to the murderer Kamnan Poh, who fled from punishment during Thakin's regime?

Staggering that we hear more from Chalerm in the last 2 days than we had during weeks and weeks of flooding.

.

that's probably because he knows nothing about serving the public good, only his private gain..........

[RockyBeerbelly]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

[sparebox2]

Was there a public debate on this last year?

Same same must apply this year, else double standard.

[sparebox2]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

"slip through the justice system"

What do you mean? Like the DEM "slip through the justice system" on party dissolution?

You can have your opinion. But it is only 1 opinion.

[EvilDrSomkid]

What bunch of selfish children.

Red democracy in full force.

Will be interesting to see what will happen when Yingluck is in Bali...

Last time a Shinawatra left the country to an international event, something happened.

[DP25]

Staggering that we hear more from Chalerm in the last 2 days than we had during weeks and weeks of flooding.

.

Why would he be interested in the flood? People killed by the flood are mostly poor. This is a party of the rich and for the rich. There are important matters that require attention, like pardoning billionaires.

[RockyBeerbelly]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

"slip through the justice system"

What do you mean? Like the DEM "slip through the justice system" on party dissolution?

You can have your opinion. But it is only 1 opinion.

How can you accept a murderer to walk free and brush it off with a discussion about the democrat party dissolution? The murder Duangchalerm committed is NOT my opinion, there were 6 witnesses remember.....The sad thing is that this is what people like yourself simply want to forget and that is what destroys this fine country.

[tominbkk]

How can you accept a murderer to walk free and brush it off with a discussion about the democrat party dissolution? The murder Duangchalerm committed is NOT my opinion, there were 6 witnesses remember.....The sad thing is that this is what people like yourself simply want to forget and that is what destroys this fine country.

Not to mention all the corrupt schemes Chalerm has been behind, his other son's drunken petulant hit and run of a police officer, how they played hookie on conscription day and yet became ranking police officers. Slimy to the nth!

[scotbeve]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

I'm definitely not a fan of Chalerm and his brood, but Suthep was certainly no angel. Some kind of parallelism here...

[lannarebirth]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

I'm definitely not a fan of Chalerm and his brood, but Suthep was certainly no angel. Some kind of parallelism here...

Just once I'd like to see someone defend an argument / point of view, without resorting to "the other guy / party was bad too argument.

[udonguy]

cant see the problem personally as we are not allowed to discuss 'many things' - until there is fair and open real democracy when anything can be discussed why blame them?

[KhaoNiaw]

I'm definitely not a fan of Chalerm and his brood, but Suthep was certainly no angel. Some kind of parallelism here...

Just once I'd like to see someone defend an argument / point of view, without resorting to "the other guy / party was bad too argument.

Yes, it's bizarre isn't it. Mind you, I've heard Thai politicians using that argument themselves.

[tominbkk]

cant see the problem personally as we are not allowed to discuss 'many things' - until there is fair and open real democracy when anything can be discussed why blame them?

Haha, even a comment like the one above may be deleted.

[h90]

With stories such as this, I often wonder if the coup government had more democratic tendencies than the current mob.

Remember the Surayud government: While it was ineffective, it was a lot more "democratic". It turned off the internet censorship on the beginning, it let the people vote on the constitution. Every concern was discussed (in a long ineffective blabla).

Definitely better than this government.

[maidu]

Reminds me of a segment of a movie, where a smart court jester is entertaining the courtesans of a 16th century castle.

He goes on and on about how God exists and how great He is. The audience is charmed and applauds at the logic. At the end, the jester says, "I can just as readily convince you that God doesn't exist." The audience looks at him in stunned silence, and he desists.

Chalerm not only takes democracy down to the basement and stuffs its head in a barrel of dirty oil, he shows how he can use words to justify (to the gullible cadre of Reds) anything at all. If he chose to convince the Thai peons that trees grow upside down and water flows uphill, he could do that also.

[scorecard]

With stories such as this, I often wonder if the coup government had more democratic tendencies than the current mob.

Agree.

[Pib]

All of this is Ops Normal for a Thai govt, regardless of which group/party is in power. Dorthy, You're Not in Kansas Anymore.

[scorecard]

Reminds me of a segment of a movie, where a smart court jester is entertaining the courtesans of a 16th century castle.

He goes on and on about how God exists and how great He is. The audience is charmed and applauds at the logic. At the end, the jester says, "I can just as readily convince you that God doesn't exist." The audience looks at him in stunned silence, and he desists.

Chalerm not only takes democracy down to the basement and stuffs its head in a barrel of dirty oil, he shows how he can use words to justify (to the gullible cadre of Reds) anything at all. If he chose to convince the Thai peons that trees grow upside down and water flows uphill, he could do that also.

And he wouldn't hesitate to do so, even if it displayed (again) that he has no morals, no values and no conscience.

And he would harass and intimidate anybody who tried to question his statements or his intent.

Thailand is going backwards, fast!

[Bakseedaa]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

"slip through the justice system"

What do you mean? Like the DEM "slip through the justice system" on party dissolution?

You can have your opinion. But it is only 1 opinion.

Don,t see how you can compare murder of a policeman , a serious criminal charge, with party dissolution.... which banana boat did you come to Thailand in..? go home and finish your schooling...!

[jpinx]

Thailand is not a democracy - period. All media is heavily controlled, votes are bought, there are strict laws against debate concerning some people, and corruption is allowed to run rampant.

It is very similar to Italy, Greece, etc, ..... Ooops - but they are democracies - what have I missed?

[apalink_thailand]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

"slip through the justice system"

What do you mean? Like the DEM "slip through the justice system" on party dissolution?

You can have your opinion. But it is only 1 opinion.

How can you accept a murderer to walk free and brush it off with a discussion about the democrat party dissolution? The murder Duangchalerm committed is NOT my opinion, there were 6 witnesses remember.....The sad thing is that this is what people like yourself simply want to forget and that is what destroys this fine country.

Agree. The guy is a thug and clearly, he taught his sons how to be thugs as well. I believe one of them is also now a politician.

[OzMick]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

I'm definitely not a fan of Chalerm and his brood, but Suthep was certainly no angel. Some kind of parallelism here...

Moral equivalence raises its repugnant head once more. But you are really straining when you try to find something to equate to covering up a drunken murder of a police officer.

Anybody who wishes to excuse (or equivocate on) his actions might consider Chalerm as PM, and the horrors Iraquis experienced with Saddam's sons running amok.

[Moruya]

Was there a public debate on this last year?

Same same must apply this year, else double standard.

Isn't this a public debate?

Should someone of your political persuasion be joining in or toeing the party line?

[pimay11]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

"slip through the justice system"

What do you mean? Like the DEM "slip through the justice system" on party dissolution?

You can have your opinion. But it is only 1 opinion.

How can you accept a murderer to walk free and brush it off with a discussion about the democrat party dissolution? The murder Duangchalerm committed is NOT my opinion, there were 6 witnesses remember.....The sad thing is that this is what people like yourself simply want to forget and that is what destroys this fine country.

Agree. The guy is a thug and clearly, he taught his sons how to be thugs as well. I believe one of them is also now a politician.

Wan Yoobamrung who is appointed as "Mr Happy Toilet" launches clean toilet campaign at Hualampong Train Station on Wednesday.

The Nation

Mr. Wan Yubamrung, the Assistant to the Secretary of the Transport Minister, who has also been chosen to be Mr. Airport Link

The Nation

[OzMick]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

"slip through the justice system"

What do you mean? Like the DEM "slip through the justice system" on party dissolution?

You can have your opinion. But it is only 1 opinion.

How can you accept a murderer to walk free and brush it off with a discussion about the democrat party dissolution? The murder Duangchalerm committed is NOT my opinion, there were 6 witnesses remember.....The sad thing is that this is what people like yourself simply want to forget and that is what destroys this fine country.

Agree. The guy is a thug and clearly, he taught his sons how to be thugs as well. I believe one of them is also now a politician.

And of course, in the Pardon Thugs Party