No Public Debate Allowed In 'Secret' Draft On Amnesty: Chalerm

[Reasonableman]

I am still flabbergasted that we allow Chalerm this kind of power. He and his family have such a creepy, corrupt and criminal past, that this guy should be locked up for the rest of his life. How can we forget the way he paid off the police force to let his son (Duangchalerm) slip through the justice system for the murder we all know he committed in October 2001. I am simply appalled by the fact that us Thais let this guy represent us. That we simply accept that what he discusses in a cabinet meeting is secret! Disgusting!

"slip through the justice system"

What do you mean? Like the DEM "slip through the justice system" on party dissolution?

You can have your opinion. But it is only 1 opinion.

ditto

[maidu]

Wan Yoobamrung who is appointed as "Mr Happy Toilet" launches clean toilet campaign at Hualampong Train Station on Wednesday.

The Nation

Mr. Wan Yubamrung, the Assistant to the Secretary of the Transport Minister, who has also been chosen to be Mr. Airport Link

The Nation

is that Chalerm's youngest son? ...the one who, after being harbored by Thai general (right after allegedly murdering a policeman in cold blood), ran off to Cambodia - then, after hiding for several months, was met in Singapore by his father, who shepherded him safely back to Thailand, ......to partake in a sham trial which let the kid off with nary a slap on the wrist? If that's his son, why isn't the boy using his family name?

If Chalerm can't influence his 3 sons any better than them becoming thugs and murderers, then why was he appointed as a Minister - to influence Thailand at its top political echelons? Couldn't have anything with the fact that the old man is filthy rich, could it?

[Buchholz]

Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piumsombun said the Cabinet debate on pardon should not be kept confidential because it would have an impact on a large number of people.

"Thaksin was a police cadet and should remain a gentleman," he said, adding that royal pardon should only be granted to those who show remorse and are not fugitives.

He added that during his time as interior minister in Thaksin's reign, he had advised against pardon sought by a daughter for her fugitive father.

It would seem the rift between former Thai Rak Thai Purachai and former Thai Rak Thai Thaksin is still well in place.

Do his last words refer to the murderer Kamnan Poh, who fled from punishment during Thakin's regime?

Staggering that we hear more from Chalerm in the last 2 days than we had during weeks and weeks of flooding.

The growing chorus of people opposing the proposed pardon at this time is expanding.

Joining Purachai in voicing the inappropriateness of the action by the government is the Chairman of Thai Chamber of Commerce, Phongsak Assakul, the President of the Thailand Convention & Exhibition Bureau (TCEB), Akapol Sorasuchart, and host of academics such as Professor Siripan Noksuan of Chulalongkorn University and the former law Dean of Thammasat University, Preecha Suwannathat.

They are joined by 88 lecturers from seven universities who signed a letter opposing the decree.

.

[webfact]

Deputy PM: Pardon Decree Not Aimed at Favoring Thaksin

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung insists the issue related to a royal pardon decree is confidential and that the government has no intention of helping convicted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He claims the decree will benefit thousands of convicts.

Democrat MP for Trang Province Satit Wongnongtaey raised a fresh question for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra about the secret Cabinet meeting on Tuesday which discussed changes to the royal pardon decree, with regards to what qualifies convicts to be entitled to receive the pardon.

The Cabinet's push to amend the amnesty decree was seen as an effort to help former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was convicted of corruption in the Ratchadapisek land purchase case and is still on the run.

Under the modified decree, individuals convicted of corruption charges would be allowed to seek royal clemency and would not be required to serve their sentences first.

Satit called the government's move inappropriate.

Responding to the question on behalf of the Prime Minister Deputy Prime Minister, who is attending the ASEAN summit in Indonesia, Chalerm Yoobamrung claimed the matter was confidential and the Cabinet has the rights to make changes to the amnesty decree within the scope of the law.

He insisted the details of the decree cannot be disclosed at the moment, because they have yet to be examined by an independent committee appointed by the Justice Ministry and the Council of State.

Meanwhile, the Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piamsomboon said normally the decree for a royal pardon is not confidential and the pardon is typically granted for convicts on a special occasion after serving part of their sentences.

He added that the government should not have kept the meeting secret from the public.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-18

[Buchholz]

Wan Yoobamrung who is appointed as "Mr Happy Toilet" launches clean toilet campaign at Hualampong Train Station on Wednesday.

The Nation

Mr. Wan Yubamrung, the Assistant to the Secretary of the Transport Minister, who has also been chosen to be Mr. Airport Link

The Nation

is that Chalerm's youngest son? ...the one who, after being harbored by Thai general (right after allegedly murdering a policeman in cold blood), ran off to Cambodia - then, after hiding for several months, was met in Singapore by his father, who shepherded him safely back to Thailand, ......to partake in a sham trial which let the kid off with nary a slap on the wrist? If that's his son, why isn't the boy using his family name?

No, Wan (raising his hand to speak with Thaksin) is the one who was alleged to have held the policeman down in the club while his brother Duang (next to him with gray shirt) was alleged to have shot the policeman in the head.

The all use the family name, but it is transliterated a number of different ways, eg. Yoobamrung, Yubamrung, etc.

.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[animatic]

Such and amazing and ongoing collection of

'probable' lies, deceits and just plain bald faced malfeasance in office

from this 'allegedly' dangerous Bozo.

Many excellent comments in this thread and from several straight speaking

senior Thais in the business, political and industrial sectors.

Edited November 18, 2011 by animatic

[ozzieman05]

Deputy PM: Pardon Decree Not Aimed at Favoring Thaksin

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung insists the issue related to a royal pardon decree is confidential and that the government has no intention of helping convicted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He claims the decree will benefit thousands of convicts.

.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-18

At what point did we start helping 100's of convicts before helping the harsd working people who voted them into power

[hellodolly]

Was there a public debate on this last year?

Same same must apply this year, else double standard.

You are forgetting that the PT under Thaksin is in power now.

Double standards are only wrong when they are being used by their opponents.

[pimay11]

Wan Yoobamrung who is appointed as "Mr Happy Toilet" launches clean toilet campaign at Hualampong Train Station on Wednesday.

The Nation

Mr. Wan Yubamrung, the Assistant to the Secretary of the Transport Minister, who has also been chosen to be Mr. Airport Link

The Nation

is that Chalerm's youngest son? ...the one who, after being harbored by Thai general (right after allegedly murdering a policeman in cold blood), ran off to Cambodia - then, after hiding for several months, was met in Singapore by his father, who shepherded him safely back to Thailand, ......to partake in a sham trial which let the kid off with nary a slap on the wrist? If that's his son, why isn't the boy using his family name?

If Chalerm can't influence his 3 sons any better than them becoming thugs and murderers, then why was he appointed as a Minister - to influence Thailand at its top political echelons? Couldn't have anything with the fact that the old man is filthy rich, could it?

Not the same one. Here are a few facts about Mr Happy Toilet.

Banned from entertainment venus for two years by the Criminal Court on August 30, 2005 then sentanced to 48 hours community service for vailoating the ban.

Charged with his brother Duang over fatal shooting of Pol Sen Sgt Suwichi Rodwimut at nightclub on Oct 29, 2001. Both aquitted for lack of evedence.

Charged with assulting Sermchai Wattanasenitham duting an argument at Brit 99 Club on Jan 26, 2000.

Accused of dodging conscription and in 2002 presenting a fake military draft certificate when he applied for a police job.

Accused of damaging a Thai Rath journalist's camera on July 11, 1999.

Accused of assult in a complaint filed by an Abac student, Sawida Ungsirsawat at a party in a Pattaya hotel in June 1999.

Charged with assaulting Akradet Sukrangsan at the Taurus Pub August 1, 1998.

Allegedy involved in a brawl at the Alien Pub in Pattaya in which two people were shot in April 1997.

[Buchholz]

Was there a public debate on this last year?

Same same must apply this year, else double standard.

You are forgetting that the PT under Thaksin is in power now.

Double standards are only wrong when they are being used by their opponents.

the Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piamsomboon said normally the decree for a royal pardon is not confidential and the pardon is typically granted for convicts on a special occasion after serving part of their sentences.

He added that the government should not have kept the meeting secret from the public.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=513103&view=getnewpost

[hellodolly]

I can just see it all now.

Another helicopter flight that does not allow the PM to chair the cabinet meeting and a return to find out the cabinet in a secret meeting has decided to extend the Lassa Fhair laws to include Shinawrta's.

Sorry about the spelling

[renaissanc]

Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piumsombun said the Cabinet debate on pardon should not be kept confidential because it would have an impact on a large number of people.

"Thaksin was a police cadet and should remain a gentleman," he said, adding that royal pardon should only be granted to those who show remorse and are not fugitives.

He added that during his time as interior minister in Thaksin's reign, he had advised against pardon sought by a daughter for her fugitive father.

It would seem the rift between former Thai Rak Thai Purachai and former Thai Rak Thai Thaksin is still well in place.

Do his last words refer to the murderer Kamnan Poh, who fled from punishment during Thakin's regime?

Staggering that we hear more from Chalerm in the last 2 days than we had during weeks and weeks of flooding.

.

Chalerm is just a lackey for Thaksin. I suggest that Chalerm asks for his payment from Thaksin before the chaos he is about to cause as Thaksin will soon be back home in Dubai.

[Orac]

Deputy PM: Pardon Decree Not Aimed at Favoring Thaksin

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung insists the issue related to a royal pardon decree is confidential and that the government has no intention of helping convicted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He claims the decree will benefit thousands of convicts.

.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-18

At what point did we start helping 100's of convicts before helping the harsd working people who voted them into power

It has been a royal tradition for a long time - hence the timing.

FYI, for the Kings 5th cycle birthday he released 37,400 prisoners, 23,940 for His Majestys 6th cycle so the 26,000 proposed for His 7th cycle due on 5th December is not unusual in anyway. On top of this there is a tradition of pardoning prisoners on other Royal auspicious occasions.

[Buchholz]

Rak Santi Party leader Purachai Piumsombun said the Cabinet debate on pardon should not be kept confidential because it would have an impact on a large number of people.

"Thaksin was a police cadet and should remain a gentleman," he said, adding that royal pardon should only be granted to those who show remorse and are not fugitives.

He added that during his time as interior minister in Thaksin's reign, he had advised against pardon sought by a daughter for her fugitive father.

It would seem the rift between former Thai Rak Thai Purachai and former Thai Rak Thai Thaksin is still well in place.

Do his last words refer to the murderer Kamnan Poh, who fled from punishment during Thakin's regime?

Staggering that we hear more from Chalerm in the last 2 days than we had during weeks and weeks of flooding.

Chalerm is just a lackey for Thaksin. I suggest that Chalerm asks for his payment from Thaksin before the chaos he is about to cause as Thaksin will soon be back home in Dubai.

The other paper reportedly puts him in neighboring Cambodia now... awaiting word of the pardon.

(Likely with hospital pajamas already packed)

.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[outre99]

Don,t see how you can compare murder of a policeman , a serious criminal charge, with party dissolution.... which banana boat did you come to Thailand in..? go home and finish your schooling...!

Once again a brilliantly and eloquently argued point. It's not surprising that the plebes just don't get you. Imagine that...

One case is a cold blooded murder with multiple eye witnesses pointing at the perpetrator who gets home free.

The other is a complex legal issue with several somewhat unclear and contradicting laws involved.

Yes we must go back to school to understand the difference.

[webfact]

RT @tulsathit: Thaksin told Reuters he knew nothing about the amnesty decree because it was discussed at closed-door Cabinet meeting.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It has been a royal tradition for a long time - hence the timing.

FYI, for the Kings 5th cycle birthday he released 37,400 prisoners, 23,940 for His Majestys 6th cycle so the 26,000 proposed for His 7th cycle due on 5th December is not unusual in anyway. On top of this there is a tradition of pardoning prisoners on other Royal auspicious occasions.

Thanks for providing those statistics.. I'd seen the 26,000 number thrown around in the current discussion, but had no idea how that related to the similar numbers in past years.

Apart from the obvious political machinations here, I suspect a lot of us are confused about what is the NORMAL process for getting to such pardons. And the Thai media reports aren't helping a lot in providing that context.

From everything I can recall reading in the past, in order to qualify for past pardons:

--the person had to be actually serving time in jail/prison at the time. The govt. appears to be departing from that standard.

--the person had to have expressed remorse for their crime. The govt. appears to be departing from that standard.

--people convicted of corruption and drug offenses were not considered eligible. The govt. appears to be departing from that standard.

--I don't recall ever hearing anything about whether the process leading up to such pardons has been public or private in the past. The Rak Thai party guy above seems to be saying it hasn't been secret in the past.

[Buchholz]

RT @tulsathit: Thaksin told Reuters he knew nothing about the amnesty decree because it was discussed at closed-door Cabinet meeting.

So now we've had Thaksin Shinawatra AND Yingluck Shinawatra both having said they know nothing about a plan to solicit a pardon for Thaksin Shinawatra by Yingluck Shinawatra's government.

.

[OzMick]

Deputy PM: Pardon Decree Not Aimed at Favoring Thaksin

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung insists the issue related to a royal pardon decree is confidential and that the government has no intention of helping convicted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He claims the decree will benefit thousands of convicts.

.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-18

At what point did we start helping 100's of convicts before helping the harsd working people who voted them into power

It has been a royal tradition for a long time - hence the timing.

FYI, for the Kings 5th cycle birthday he released 37,400 prisoners, 23,940 for His Majestys 6th cycle so the 26,000 proposed for His 7th cycle due on 5th December is not unusual in anyway. On top of this there is a tradition of pardoning prisoners on other Royal auspicious occasions.

Thaksin is a fugitive, not a prisoner.

[rubl]

RT @tulsathit: Thaksin told Reuters he knew nothing about the amnesty decree because it was discussed at closed-door Cabinet meeting.

So now we've had Thaksin Shinawatra AND Yingluck Shinawatra both having said they know nothing about a plan to solicit a pardon for Thaksin Shinawatra by Yingluck Shinawatra's government.

Really inconsiderate no one informed him when he phoned-in as he seems to normally do with closed-door Cabinet meetings

Edited November 18, 2011 by rubl

[khunken]

So now we have Chalerm, Thaksin, Yingluck & Yonguth all lying. The 2 Shinawatras 'don't know' about the pardon & the other 2 saying it's not for Thaksin's benefit.

Are the Thai people so deluded that they believe this cr*p? Unfortunately, probably yes.

One other item about Chalerm that may only be known to Farang long-stayers is that he was saved by the last coup but one from being charged with being 'unusually rich'. This coup, similar to the last one, was to remove a government that had become openly corrupt.

Chalerm's 'unusual' fortune played a major part in getting his criminal offspring off many of their accused crimes. Intimidation played the other part.

[sparebox2]

Deputy PM: Pardon Decree Not Aimed at Favoring Thaksin

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung insists the issue related to a royal pardon decree is confidential and that the government has no intention of helping convicted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He claims the decree will benefit thousands of convicts.

.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-18

At what point did we start helping 100's of convicts before helping the harsd working people who voted them into power

It has been a royal tradition for a long time - hence the timing.

FYI, for the Kings 5th cycle birthday he released 37,400 prisoners, 23,940 for His Majestys 6th cycle so the 26,000 proposed for His 7th cycle due on 5th December is not unusual in anyway. On top of this there is a tradition of pardoning prisoners on other Royal auspicious occasions.

Thaksin is a fugitive, not a prisoner.

Same same to Thai people.

[whybother]

RT @tulsathit: Thaksin told Reuters he knew nothing about the amnesty decree because it was discussed at closed-door Cabinet meeting.

Does skype not work when they close the door?

[Moonrakers]

Huzzah for red democracy

[RegularReader]

RT @tulsathit: Thaksin told Reuters he knew nothing about the amnesty decree because it was discussed at closed-door Cabinet meeting.

Does skype not work when they close the door?

Pay that "Why Bother" - good one!

[dude007]

Ban Ki Moon and Hillary Clinton will be happy to hear that the smartest of all politicians in Thailand has set the latest priorities... Soon the wedding date of this Shinawatra offspring will be the new National Day, if this joke continues for long!

[scorecard]

RT @tulsathit: Thaksin told Reuters he knew nothing about the amnesty decree because it was discussed at closed-door Cabinet meeting.

Does skype not work when they close the door?

Pay that "Why Bother" - good one!

The dubai nose gets longer and longer, beware mr dubai you will trip over your own nose.

How could anybody want a man who obviously lies as needed, numerous times, to suit his own ends to be part of leading the country?

Edited November 18, 2011 by scorecard

[Netfan]

Please, anyone who didn't see this coming or believes Chalerm / Thaksin et al, contact me immediatey. My cousin,the former oil minister of Nigeria, has left a sum of 500,000,000 dollars and I need your bank account detailsand a small good faith deposit from you so I can transfer the money. I also have several miracle machines for sale, which turn plain paper into money.

[Netfan]

Ban Ki Moon and Hillary Clinton will be happy to hear that the smartest of all politicians in Thailand has set the latest priorities... Soon the wedding date of this Shinawatra offspring will be the new National Day, if this joke continues for long!

It's funny - Hillary is actuall;y on her way to Burma, who seem to be headed in one direction while Thailand is headed in the other.,

[MaiChai]

I never knew a politician that didn't lie. On this basis don't believe everything your told and use your judgement to work out what really is going on.