Ceiling Insulation For New House Thai Style

[mrbojangles]

Naam,

A question if I may, as I'm looking at venting the loft space in my "Budget Bungalow". Am I right in thinking the loft fan is an oversized extraction fan like you would have in a bathroom or kitchen? If so, does covering the outlet with mesh cause a problem? I obviously want to keep out the Mozzies and anything else that can get through the space of the fan blades?

Whoops. Thank you :jap:

[Naam]

1. Am I right in thinking the loft fan is an oversized extraction fan like you would have in a bathroom or kitchen?

2. If so, does covering the outlet with mesh cause a problem? I obviously want to keep out the Mozzies and anything else that can get through the space of the fan blades?

1. that is correct.

2. if the fan has louvers which open only when the fan operates there's no need to add some mesh. all our bathrooms are equipped with these fans, never had any mosquito problem.

[Naam]

I'm looking at venting the loft space in my "Budget Bungalow"

based on your earlier descriptions you don't need an "oversized" fan. a bathroom exhaust fan (1,000-1,200 Baht) will do the trick to your satisfaction. add a cheap timer for 150-200 Baht and you are set.

[mrbojangles]

Double Post

[mrbojangles]

Many thanks Naam. Seems a very cheap option.

Would you also see any benefit in fitting vent tiles high up to allow hot air to escape? Not neccessarily these particular ones but something along these lines.

[Naam]

Many thanks Naam. Seems a very cheap option.

Would you also see any benefit in fitting vent tiles high up to allow hot air to escape? Not neccessarily these particular ones but something along these lines.

that would be of course a benefit. but are they available in Thailand?

caveat: what is the gradient of your roof? think of heavy rain combined with high winds! can the vent tiles manage without water leaking into the attic?

[Naam]

I'm looking at venting the loft space in my "Budget Bungalow"

based on your earlier descriptions you don't need an "oversized" fan. a bathroom exhaust fan (1,000-1,200 Baht) will do the trick to your satisfaction. add a cheap timer for 150-200 Baht and you are set.

i forgot to add "what goes out, must come in". without sufficient ventilation inlet area the fan chops air but does not exhaust.

[mrbojangles]

Many thanks Naam. Seems a very cheap option.

Would you also see any benefit in fitting vent tiles high up to allow hot air to escape? Not neccessarily these particular ones but something along these lines.

that would be of course a benefit. but are they available in Thailand?

caveat: what is the gradient of your roof? think of heavy rain combined with high winds! can the vent tiles manage without water leaking into the attic?

I'm not sure of the kinds (if any)that are available in Thailand but these are used in the UK, so if they can withstand the weather of Manchester, Thailand will be a doddle.

[travelmann]

Hi Ok but there arent massive temp differentials here in the tropics as in northern hemisphere and I am thinking of Clorbond steel roofing with spray foam under it not asbestos and then fibreglass on top of the gypsum board ceilings with the attic space also vented as I do want air con in the rooms.

The colorbond sheet will be continuous with the clips that hold it on NOT bolts so no bolt holes will be cut thru the sheet the chance of any leaks will be almost zero.

well, here close to the beach, watertanks in stainless steel dont last 5 years, so a steel roof would be my last choice

Am 16 miles from the sea life expectancy guarantee is <30 years

[Naam]

Many thanks Naam. Seems a very cheap option.

Would you also see any benefit in fitting vent tiles high up to allow hot air to escape? Not neccessarily these particular ones but something along these lines.

that would be of course a benefit. but are they available in Thailand?

caveat: what is the gradient of your roof? think of heavy rain combined with high winds! can the vent tiles manage without water leaking into the attic?

I'm not sure of the kinds (if any)that are available in Thailand but these are used in the UK, so if they can withstand the weather of Manchester, Thailand will be a doddle.

i don't think there are homes in Manchester which -like Thai homes- have only a ceiling of gypsum boards separating living areas from the attic. in other words, a little rainwater seeping through the tiles into the attic of a Manchester home does not cause the same havoc as it would in Thailand.

[mrbojangles]

Many thanks Naam. Seems a very cheap option.

Would you also see any benefit in fitting vent tiles high up to allow hot air to escape? Not neccessarily these particular ones but something along these lines.

that would be of course a benefit. but are they available in Thailand?

caveat: what is the gradient of your roof? think of heavy rain combined with high winds! can the vent tiles manage without water leaking into the attic?

I'm not sure of the kinds (if any)that are available in Thailand but these are used in the UK, so if they can withstand the weather of Manchester, Thailand will be a doddle.

i don't think there are homes in Manchester which -like Thai homes- have only a ceiling of gypsum boards separating living areas from the attic. in other words, a little rainwater seeping through the tiles into the attic of a Manchester home does not cause the same havoc as it would in Thailand.

If you take new homes out of the equation with new building regs etc, that is exactly how "typical" homes in the UK were constructed. Most have plasterboard ceilings (some still have plaster and latt), then a layer of Rockwool insulation. There is then the attic space and then the roof tiles on the roof trusses, albeit the majority of re-roofed houses have now got roofing felt beneath the tiles.

As I say, new houses are constructed differenly but I don't know how much different to that they are. Maybe some have flooring in the attic space but that wouldn't really stop a leak.

[P76]

http://www.solatube.com.au/residential/product-catalog/solar-star-roof-ventilation/index.php

Check out this link.

I have had a fan on my sloping tiled roof in Australia for about 6 years. Its electric and comes on when temp in roof hits 28 degres C.

It made an unbelievable difference to my indoor temp.

The new solar one looks good. I will be installing one in my house in Thailand.

I have insulation on top of the ceiling also (fibreglass batts) and now rarely turn on my aircon.

PS. it gets just as &lt;deleted&gt; hot here as in Thailand.

Also nothing better than a big tree to shade your house. Thai's like to chop them down though.

[haveaniceday]

I am looking for fiberglass insulation bats that are sealed in a plastic bag.

I want them sealed due to having some exhaust fans in the attic, and it has been recommended in a another thread that the commonly available ones from Global and Home Pro that are bagged in silver foil can create issues with Thai style electrical wiring touching them.

Question, any one seen these in Thailand ?

[Thighlander]

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ12l2/R-100014195/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I had real good luck with this one with a built in thermostat.

[Theboy]

http://www.homedepot...catalogId=10053

I had real good luck with this one with a built in thermostat.

And what good is that for Thailand ?

[Naam]

I am looking for fiberglass insulation bats that are sealed in a plastic bag.

I want them sealed due to having some exhaust fans in the attic, and it has been recommended in a another thread that the commonly available ones from Global and Home Pro that are bagged in silver foil can create issues with Thai style electrical wiring touching them.

Question, any one seen these in Thailand ?

bull²

[cheeryble]

Naam have you ever tried an adequately large venting (and I mean large) in the loft and let convection do the trick?

The (non-hip) roof would have to have a good pitch of course.

The outlet vent MUST be a triangle at the very top of the eaves and the inlet air could be pulled through the house and up, thus changing the house air to ambient too.

It would greatly surprise me if this combined with perhaps roll rockwool on top of the ceiling boards didn't do it. The steeper the temperature differential, the more the pull.

(the "vent tiles" shown in a previous post are merely for allowing a trickle air-change to stop dampness gathering in cold countries I would guess, and would be woefully inadequate)

My house has trees around and with a very shallow pitch gathers a good covering of leaves. These work very well I have no aircon just fans.

After all that's where one should be addressing this problem.....by stopping the sun hitting the roof in the first place :-)

cheers Cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Naam have you ever tried an adequately large venting (and I mean large) in the loft and let convection do the trick?

The (non-hip) roof would have to have a good pitch of course.The outlet vent must be at the very top under the eaves (often seen on old Thai houses) and with a little ingenuity the inlet air could be pulled from outside through the house and up, thus changing the house air to ambient too.

It would greatly surprise me if this combined with perhaps roll rockwool on top of the ceiling boards didn't do it. The steeper the temperature differential, the more the pull.

(the "vent tiles" shown in a previous post are merely for allowing a trickle air-change to stop dampness gathering in cold countries I would guess, and would be woefully inadequate)

My house has trees around and with a very shallow pitch gathers a good covering of leaves. These work very well I have no aircon just fans.

After all that should be the starting point.....by stopping the sun hitting the roof in the first place :-)

cheers Cheeryble

Edited December 9, 2011 by cheeryble

[haveaniceday]

bull2, never heard of them. Are they a shop or a supplier of insulation bats in plastic?

'electau' gave some excellent advice & said to the Question,

Any concerns rearing a metal framed roof, and silver lined insulation?

"Yes there is. You should not use metallic foil over electrical wiring the risk is that a fixing may penetrate a cable. You may also have to derate the current rating of cables because wiring is partly or completly enclosed in thermal insulation. Metallic foil must be earthed if you intend to use it.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">One would advise against the use and use thermal fibreglass batts instead. of foil. Earth the steelwork.

Fibreglass pink batts are available in plastic sleeves.Do not place insulation over recessed light fittings to prevent overheating and fire. cables should be over 50% of their length in insulation to be derated. Short lengths of cable do not require derating.

A cable with a route length of eg. 30metres, 20 metres of this in thermal insulation, partly or completly would require derating. ie. a protective device with a lower current rating. 20A to 16A for 2.5sqmm cable. Derating is based on the circuit carrying full rated current.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">One should avoid running cables in thermal insulation, run above in free air above the thermal insulation itself.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">Cables lain on thermal insulation are regarded as partly enclosed, the same as in conduit or duct. Cables within layers of thermal insulation are completely surrounded and must be further derated."

Edited December 9, 2011 by haveaniceday

[Naam]

Any concerns rearing a metal framed roof, and silver lined insulation?

"Yes there is. You should not use metallic foil over electrical wiring the risk is that a fixing may penetrate a cable. You may also have to derate the current rating of cables because wiring is partly or completly enclosed in thermal insulation. Metallic foil must be earthed if you intend to use it.

more bullshit!

[Naam]

Naam have you ever tried an adequately large venting (and I mean large) in the loft and let convection do the trick?

The (non-hip) roof would have to have a good pitch of course.The outlet vent must be at the very top under the eaves (often seen on old Thai houses) and with a little ingenuity the inlet air could be pulled from outside through the house and up, thus changing the house air to ambient too.

It would greatly surprise me if this combined with perhaps roll rockwool on top of the ceiling boards didn't do it. The steeper the temperature differential, the more the pull.

(the "vent tiles" shown in a previous post are merely for allowing a trickle air-change to stop dampness gathering in cold countries I would guess, and would be woefully inadequate)

My house has trees around and with a very shallow pitch gathers a good covering of leaves. These work very well I have no aircon just fans.

After all that should be the starting point.....by stopping the sun hitting the roof in the first place :-)

cheers Cheeryble

large venting has the potential disadvantage of rainwater entering through the roof. that in context with gypsum ceilings i consider a big "no-no".

i love big trees which give shade to a home in a tropical ambiente. but only some months ago i lost two trees because of heavy rain and high winds and was extremely lucky that none of them hit my house.

it is of course possible to use natural convection, which may be very efficient if done properly. but i have strong doubts whether this is advisable using a Thai builder.

i built four homes in Florida (two for me, two for my friends), had a good and experienced builder (no communication problems) who agreed with me that forced ventilation is any day better than having huge open areas in the roof.

on the other hand i admit being an extremist who is going most of the time for "overkill" here's a satellite image of my last Florida home featuring 7 roof exhaust fans:

[haveaniceday]

Below is form a old post here, link below, does anyone have any other experience or comments on this thought?

Our lounge, dinning kitchen area has 12-13 foot ceiling, but I wanted the other rooms lower, with 9 foot ceilings, but they now have over a meter high rendered walls protruding into the attic. Also thinking, these rooms will have nice little area of little air movement due to this.

I was thinking, less volume of air to cool with the Air Cons, but I may have accidently made a bigger problem.

Tony Cliftin: "Before we moved into this house, the townhouse we lived in had inner walls that were never exposed to direct sunlight on the outside but were still very hot to the touch even at midnight The attic was so badly built and ventilated and the air up there was so hot that it heated up the upper sections of walls in the attic with the heat radiating all the way down through concrete and re-bar, turning the house into a 24 hour oven. The closer to the ceiling you'd touch any inside wall, the warmer it got. The attic we have now is well ventilated with a constant breeze flushing it out constantly. You can sometimes notice the same heat radiation happening where the ceramic floors unexposed to direct sunlight will feel hot to the touch, the heat being transferer through connected concrete walls that are exposed to direct sunlight."Dropped ceilings do radiate some heat (gypsum) but upper sections of walls exposed in the attic are a killer, simply starting by insulating those would make a big difference."

Image of what he is talking about here: http://static.thaivi...65995_thumb.jpg

The link to the original thread here.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__1044390

Edited December 20, 2011 by haveaniceday