Can I Become A Thai Citizen?

[FritsSikkink]

Despite the good intentioned advice I've offered the OP I think there is an element of unnecessary whining over the rules the Thai government has set, mainly relating to income.

To me, the income rules are a red herring. You are either in a job and have a salary that provides stability now and into the future, or you are not - regardless of the income threshold for a visa, or in this case, citizenship. That is our own free choice to chose the job we work in and the citizenship rules dont force you into those jobs.

Now, let me declare my bias, I am all for automatic work rights for spouses and family members and a reasonably open and transparent path to citizenship to people who show a commitment to Thailand.

But even if that was the case, it doesn't change the fact that the labour market in Thailand isn't always set up for providing high paying jobs which provide long term security, and as such, even if the visa rules were 'easy' taking certain jobs won't guarantee you and your family a stable future income.

So it is a bit rich to blame the Thai government of denying you a stable future. Our choices are own own.

I think you answered the points that you raised yourself. You stated that the labour market esp. teaching (and I don't know what else I could do as most private sector jobs would probably need university level Thai). Thus, the citizenship rules should consider what a respectable profession (teaching) pays and use that instead of 40,000. This is even more valid when you also mention the ability to sustain a family on such a wage - I can.

Now, in realtion to your point that I am wrong to blame the government for a stable life, the government does not offer any stable system that allows a husband and father (of Thai people) to remain - this is where the government is to blame. I do not blame them if the employment market does not offer stability. I blame the government for not allowing me to remain with my family.

You should not blame the government that you do not know what to do.

Set up your own bussines ????

[AngryParent]

Despite the good intentioned advice I've offered the OP I think there is an element of unnecessary whining over the rules the Thai government has set, mainly relating to income.

To me, the income rules are a red herring. You are either in a job and have a salary that provides stability now and into the future, or you are not - regardless of the income threshold for a visa, or in this case, citizenship. That is our own free choice to chose the job we work in and the citizenship rules dont force you into those jobs.

Now, let me declare my bias, I am all for automatic work rights for spouses and family members and a reasonably open and transparent path to citizenship to people who show a commitment to Thailand.

But even if that was the case, it doesn't change the fact that the labour market in Thailand isn't always set up for providing high paying jobs which provide long term security, and as such, even if the visa rules were 'easy' taking certain jobs won't guarantee you and your family a stable future income.

So it is a bit rich to blame the Thai government of denying you a stable future. Our choices are own own.

I think you answered the points that you raised yourself. You stated that the labour market esp. teaching (and I don't know what else I could do as most private sector jobs would probably need university level Thai). Thus, the citizenship rules should consider what a respectable profession (teaching) pays and use that instead of 40,000. This is even more valid when you also mention the ability to sustain a family on such a wage - I can.

Now, in realtion to your point that I am wrong to blame the government for a stable life, the government does not offer any stable system that allows a husband and father (of Thai people) to remain - this is where the government is to blame. I do not blame them if the employment market does not offer stability. I blame the government for not allowing me to remain with my family.

You should not blame the government that you do not know what to do.

Set up your own bussines ????

OK, I will entertain your idea to please you.

How does a guy with around only 100,000 Baht open a private tutorial school (I am sure I could get the customers) where I can get a work permit and visa? Ignore all operational and startup costs that are not due to government rules.

[dartvidar]

If you are from a wester country I dont under stand why you wants to be a thai citizen, but Im not sure where you coming from? Will your country allow you double citizen ship? It is a book called Thai Law (for farang) or similare, it's written in English. They write little bit about how to get Thai Citizen ship. I have also read about it in some other farang books as well. Some of their advice was if you wants to offer the time and expenses to apply for Thai citizen ships, start to learn read/write speak Thai fluently, pluss sing the Thai national song. It was here most people fail during their intervju. I will for sure fail when I have to sing in front of many people, and you know If you fail you are out.

Good luck

[AngryParent]

If you are from a wester country I dont under stand why you wants to be a thai citizen, but Im not sure where you coming from? Will your country allow you double citizen ship? It is a book called Thai Law (for farang) or similare, it's written in English. They write little bit about how to get Thai Citizen ship. I have also read about it in some other farang books as well. Some of their advice was if you wants to offer the time and expenses to apply for Thai citizen ships, start to learn read/write speak Thai fluently, pluss sing the Thai national song. It was here most people fail during their intervju. I will for sure fail when I have to sing in front of many people, and you know If you fail you are out.

Good luck

Here is the English transliteration (and a translation). Are you saying you cannot spend a couple of weeks to rote learn 8 lines? If they want a Pavaroti then I think all will fail. I will just say it in a solemn and serious voice (but apologize for not being a singer) - if I can apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_National_Anthem#English_translation

Edited November 27, 2011 by AngryParent

[Tanaka]

I own a car, but cannot get your home loan as I am a foreigner. Nor can I own land (which is needed if one needs a house).

Anyway, you missed the point lopburi3 has stated it above.

You cant get a mortage in your own name, but your Thai wife can and you can co-sign the loan, certain banks will consider your income only for the application and the wife doesnt need to be working or even your legal wife for that matter...

You have missed the point again!

A foreigner cannnot own land - full stop! The wife, my tuk tuk driver or friend owning it is not the same as ME owning it!

That is correct and that is how it is and it is not going to change anytime soon.But, there are ways that allow you to control the land and use it as you wish for as long as you live. It is as it were yours albeit you are not the factual owner and you cannot sell it. And if you build a house on it, you can be the legal owner of that house.

[hehehoho]

Actually a foreigner can own land, but takes a lot of Thai Baht investment, but a foreigner can own land in Thailand.

[champken]

Oh i do wish the UK had laws like Thailand that prevented every Mohammed, Leroy and Patel becoming British citizens........Thailand may be or is laughable in some respects but just think how much better the UK would be doing immigration things the Thai way

[hehehoho]

Oh i do wish the UK had laws like Thailand that prevented every Mohammed, Leroy and Patel becoming British citizens........Thailand may be or is laughable in some respects but just think how much better the UK would be doing immigration things the Thai way

The UK navy towing 1000 men, women and children out to sea for them to drift and die with neither food nor water because they were looking for asylum, just like Thailand did in 2008/9, would be a bit much to be honest.

Edited November 27, 2011 by hehehoho

[champken]

Oh i do wish the UK had laws like Thailand that prevented every Mohammed, Leroy and Patel becoming British citizens........Thailand may be or is laughable in some respects but just think how much better the UK would be doing immigration things the Thai way

The UK navy towing 1000 men, women and children out to sea for them to drift and die with neither food nor water because they were looking for asylum, just like Thailand did in 2008/9, would be a bit much to be honest.

Yes you are right that would be a bit much, .. perhaps i would have been better saying "doing SOME immigration things the Thai way" but i still think you got the point i was trying to make.

[endure]

Oh i do wish the UK had laws like Thailand that prevented every Mohammed, Leroy and Patel becoming British citizens........Thailand may be or is laughable in some respects but just think how much better the UK would be doing immigration things the Thai way

The UK navy towing 1000 men, women and children out to sea for them to drift and die with neither food nor water because they were looking for asylum, just like Thailand did in 2008/9, would be a bit much to be honest.

Yes you are right that would be a bit much, .. perhaps i would have been better saying "doing SOME immigration things the Thai way" but i still think you got the point i was trying to make.

Yes, I think we all did.

Edited November 27, 2011 by endure

[samran]

Oh i do wish the UK had laws like Thailand that prevented every Mohammed, Leroy and Patel becoming British citizens........Thailand may be or is laughable in some respects but just think how much better the UK would be doing immigration things the Thai way

Perhaps Thailand can import the UK system of making many tourists getting overpriced visas before they travel. The Brits like a good queue so I am sure that the idea of lining up at 6am to submit a tourist visa application with oodles of documentation which can then be rejected as easily as not.

Would be good at preventing visa running.

I think the idea has merit!

[Oasis]

Hi Samran,

Is there any update regarding your citizenship application since its about 4-5 years already?

Cheers!

Despite the good intentioned advice I've offered the OP I think there is an element of unnecessary whining over the rules the Thai government has set, mainly relating to income.

To me, the income rules are a red herring. You are either in a job and have a salary that provides stability now and into the future, or you are not - regardless of the income threshold for a visa, or in this case, citizenship. That is our own free choice to chose the job we work in and the citizenship rules dont force you into those jobs.

Now, let me declare my bias, I am all for automatic work rights for spouses and family members and a reasonably open and transparent path to citizenship to people who show a commitment to Thailand.

But even if that was the case, it doesn't change the fact that the labour market in Thailand isn't always set up for providing high paying jobs which provide long term security, and as such, even if the visa rules were 'easy' taking certain jobs won't guarantee you and your family a stable future income.

So it is a bit rich to blame the Thai government of denying you a stable future. Our choices are own own.

[Arkady]

"Simple question but it seems to have various answers.

Can I become a Thai citizen, without the overpriced permanent residence (that nobody gets)?

I have a Thai wife, and Thai son, have worked here for 5+ years as a goverment school teacher and can speak a bit of Thai - survival level.

I am not a rich Swiss banker that can buy it!

Is it possible to get it a "normal" way like in the West?"

You meet the basic requirements for naturalisation as a Thai under the Nationality Act but I am not sure you would meet the salary requirement in the ministry regulations as a government teacher. Males married to Thais need a salary of at least Bt 40,000 a month.

Under the 2008 amendments to the Nationality Act foreign males married to Thais were exempted from the requirement to have 5 years' residence in the Kingdom and have knowledge of the Thai language. What this means in terms of the Interior Ministry's interpretation is that these applicants don't need PR, which was required as evidence for the 5 years' residence, and don't need to sing the Royal and National anthems. To benefit from this exemption the Ministry requires evidence that the applicant has been legally married to a Thai for at least 3 years (or 1 year, if the couple has a Thai child together).

As mentioned, males married to a Thai need a salary of at least Bt 40,000 a month (Bt 80,000 for those not married to Thai and they need PR too). They also need to get 50 points out of 100 on various measures including educational level, residence time in Thailand (top marks for having PR for 10 years), knowledge of Thai language, attitude etc.

The application fee was increased to Bt 10,000 last year and Special Branch only take this, once they have scrutinised all your documents with a toothcomb and you have got the necessary 50 points.

The process is not the same as most Western countries because it is unfortunately totally lacking in transparency. The police are very open and usually get all the necessary vetting checks done on you within the 60 days guideline. After that the application goes to the Interior Ministry which tends to have a rather bad attitude and seems to do its utmost to torment applicants and make them feel like they are the character Josef K in Franz Kafka's novel "The Castle". The guidelines officially state that the time for the ministry to do its mysterious work on applications is "unlimited". From applications of which I have first hand knowledge the whole process can anywhere between 18 months and 11 years but some people seem never to receive a response at all. Enquiries to the ministry about how your application is going will usually be stonewalled with vague responses such as "Don't worry you are in the queue but we can't say any more than that" but occasionally applicants may be told that their file has been mislaid or sent back to the police for re-vetting which may or may not turn out to be true. It seems that there is a great lack of consistency in the style and criteria for processing applications at the ministry and it can change radically from one minister to another. What is extremely consistent, however, is the lack of transparency. From remarks made to applicants being interviewed at the Interior Ministry, it seems that they do prefer applicants who have paid a lot of Thai salaries tax over the three year period that is assessed for application. However, I also know of a government university teacher who applied successfully.

It is very clear and Special Branch will openly concur with this that people with high level connections (minister level and above) can get the fast track treatment which can result in getting their ID card in less than 3 years after application. You may hear stories of people paying backhanders through lawyers, brokers or directly to ministry officials. I cannot say whether any of these stories are true, although it is clear to me that some lawyers and brokers are requesting backhanders upfront for a fast track service that they have no means of delivering and which they no doubt quietly pocket for themselves. I reiterate that the style of processing varies a lot under different ministers who have a tendency to disappear suddenly leaving a lot of applications unsigned on their desks. To give some past examples, Thaksin's first interior minister, Purachai, refused to sign any applications for citizenship (or PR) and held up the whole process for 3 years, while Sarayudh (interior minister and PM after the 2006 coup) apparently make sincere efforts to clear backlogs accumulated under his predecessors.

From what I can gather from posts in TV and other sources the time taken for "regular track" applicants to be interviewed at the Interior Ministry has recently increased to about 3 years from the 12 to 18 months it took only a few years ago. After you have been interviewed, it takes another 1-3 years for the minister to sign and then another 1-2 years for royal approval, gazetting in the Royal Gazette and final issue of your naturalization certificate for a further fee of Bt 500 and issue of your ID card.

Since the PR process has slowed almost to a standstill, the majority of applicants for citizenship are now people without PR applying on the basis of having a Thai spouse.

The most complete up-to-date information online is available in Thai only on Special Branch's website http://www.sbpolice.go.th/. Click on the box marked Thai with a tick on the left hand side and it will take you to a series of links. A lot of information is also available in this thread http://www.thaivisa....1#entry4235934. As mentioned by Samran and others, Special Branch's naturalization section at National Police HQ, Pathumwan, is very happy to give you an informal opinion on whether or not you are likely to be qualified to apply for Thai citizenship. It is best to go along there personally during normal government working hours but they will also give an opinion over the phone. Please note that, if you are resident outside Bangkok, you will have to apply to Special Branch HQ of your home province but Bangkok has the only dedicated Special Branch naturalization section which is the best source of information.

Thank you for a very informative post.

Just 2 questions:

As the local office might not know that much, but they are the office that will take my 10,000 and my application, is there a chance that they might erroneously accept or refuse it and thus I could suffer?

I have heard that you keep an eye on the government gazzette, do you know how many people got citizenship in the last year or so (foreigners) and how many applied?

I think it is unlikely that one of the Special Branch provincial HQs outside Bangkok would erroneously accept an application fee but cases have been reported on TV where they refused to deal with applications at all, usually pretending that applicants were supposed to apply somewhere else. It is a rather complex process and the provincial offices don't have special sections to handle it. So they have to assign some one to get in touch with Bkk and find out how to do it and some just can't be bothered for only one applicant. However, in provinces with more foreign residents like Chonburi, Chiang Mai and Phuket Special Branch seems to be able to handle applications efficiently. Some people living in other provinces have resorted to moving their registered address to Bangkok to get around the problem. Given the small numbers of applications and ease of travel today, it might make more sense to get Bangkok to process all of them but the regulations are archaic.

I will take another look at the Royal Gazette to see how many were approved in the last year when I get a moment and post the results. Compared to PR it is at least a process that is still functioning, albeit slowly and without transparency.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Arkady

[Arkady]

Samran, I meant savings, not income. The minumum savings is Baht 80,000.

AP, in your case you would need to get a yellow house registration, Tor Ror 13. I have not been able to get one before as my landlord could not be bothered. However, now that I bought a house in my son's name, I will get my yellow book in the next week or so and start the ball rolling.

Minumum salary in case of being married to a Thai is Baht 40,000.

Which as you yourself noticed, the yellow book is rarer than 800 BC manuscripts.

Salary as I mentioned, is not what foreign employees working for the same govt that issues this citizenship get. I can get a WP for a govt. job that does not pay the minimum salary for foreigners but I cannot satisfy this citizenship.

And for me to go and work in some evil private school in BKK (where the boss will use me like toilet paper) to get 40,000 a month - I would need to be a slave for another 3 years to get tax returns stating 40,000 (when I already have 5 years of returns at a lower salary). Correct?

Three things:

- the regs subtly change from year to year, and there are always (in my experience) it seems exemptions for various things. I'm not saying there will be an exemption in your particular case for not having the income, but a visit to the Special Branch to fully explain your situation you may find out other attributes which you score points for and perhaps - perhaps - your working for a government school counts for something (and I say visit rather than phone call - things handled on a personal level in Thailand seem to always turn out better). I can't stress this enough, as they are helpful and they will try and point you in the direction which maximises your points and minimizes your problems in applying.

- Assuming you did go and work for an 'evil' private school, then you'd just need the tax return from the year before plus a letter from your school confirming your salary.

Once you have that and have successfully sumbmited the citizenship application there is no reason you can't quit and go back to what you are doing. So sucking it in for a year to get the higher salary may be a worthwhile move.

- The yellow books in some cases have been harder to get. But it is becoming more common so until you try you simply won't know.

Re yellow books. There was a change in the law in 2008 in the form of an amendment to the Civil Registration Act that made it obligatory for district offices to register all foreigners in tabien baan whether they are temporary or permanent residents. Previously they were only obliged to register foreign permanent residents. That means the district office has to issue you with a yellow book, if you request one and have documentation signed by the owner of your residence. In districts with a lot of foreign residents this is nowadays not a big deal but some district offices may pretend it can't done to avoid the hassle or may even be genuinely ignorant of the change in the law. Some TV members have reported that they managed to get it done in rural districts where there was genuine ignorance by employing the help of a law firm like Isaan Lawyers, who are good at this sort of stuff, to explain the regs politely to them. A yellow or blue tabien baan is an absolute requirement for applying for Thai citizenship.

Special Branch says it doesn't matter, if your circumstances change after you have submitted your application and before you have been approved. Personally I think it would safer to make sure that you are still doing a job with a salary that still qualifies you for citizenship until after you have passed the interview at the Interior Ministry. As Samran says, the regs change subtly and often and you don't want to be caught on the wrong side of this. For those applying on the basis of having a Thai wife, please note that your wife will have to go with you for the interview at the ministry. If you can't produce her for any reason, I assume the application is null and void.

Three complete calendar years of salary tax receipts, notarised by the Revenue Department, are required. (The notarisation process can be done without hassle at the Revenue Department for a miniscule fee.) The letter from your employer needs to confirm a salary that is exactly the same as the salary that you paid tax on the year before, as evidenced in your notarised tax receipts. This is somewhat quirky as it doesn't accommodate people who have had a pay rise. They have to get their employer to confirm a number that is out of date or even request a temporary salary reduction to get the job done. Please also note that the confirmation of savings in Thailand of at least Bt 80,000 has to be addressed to Special Branch by the bank in a set format that Special Branch will advise you of (usually after you have got it wrong the first time!). Also note that the bank statement requirement is only for a one time snapshot. They don't require copies of bank books or statements going back in time.

While we are about it, any one who thinks they might be interested in applying should start making regular donations to charities registered in Thailand. No precise number is given but they do make clear that they want to see evidence of donations going back over some time. At a guess I would say you probably need to be able show receipts of at least Bt 10,000 a year for three years.

And do please go and visit the Special Branch Naturalisation Section at National Police HQ, if you are at all interested. There is a great deal that that is not made explicit in the published regulations and guidelines. You could easily find you are qualified when you thought you probably weren't or vice versa. They are probably the nicest policemen and women you will ever meet in Thailand.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Arkady

[CWMcMurray]

Under this, the minimum salary is 40,000 Baht a month (@Samran - this means I need to be a slave for 3 more years and not 1). And the big bang is that tax needs to be paid at a minimum of 50,000 Baht for the last 3 years (excludes social 750 Baht/month contributions).

Under Thai tax law, such does not compute as a person who is married (has an extra allowance) and tax returns will not equal 50,000.

Just a though and have no idea if correct or not...

I wonder if the salary requirements and the way in which you have to apply for citizenship may be affected by your type of extension?

Maybe they are advising that you need 40,000 thb in slary becauyse you are asking about applying under Marraige to Thai wife...

...so do they assume that you must be on an extension of your non-Im for Thai wife as well and since this is the salary requirement for this type of visa extension, that is why they are saying 40k ?

Does any one know if there is a requirement to be on a extension for Thai wife if you want to apply fo rcitizenship for having a Thai wife?

OP.... Have you actually gone to the special branch and sat down and spoken with someone. I would recomend going and speaking them and advising them all of your specific details and ask (politely) if anything you can do ...

This is a post that I have wanted to reply to for some time! It is very logical and legalistic. An excellent train of thought and mind! It was logical how you linked 40,000 to marriage visa and thus citizenship based on marriage (the problem is mentioned below).

Yes, the concept of multiple routes to apply is grounded in law, residence, marriage, humanitiarian etc. Much more roots in the West, but still acknowledged in Thailand to a limited extent.

The problem is that the citizenship requirments do not really give different categories for which one can apply (unlike PR).

Citizenship seems to have an intial line for minimal qualification and then after qualification one needs to get the points and then....

In the case that the 40k per month is a hard and fast rule, If I was in your shoes and no other desire or option to do anything other than teaching, I would probably suck it up for a few years and teach at a provate school for 40k per month.

It certainly does not sound like something you want to do, but if the long term goal is to apply for Thai Citizenship, it may be worth it to be unhappy at your job for a few years to meet the requirements and then go back to working for your current school.

[AngryParent]

Oh i do wish the UK had laws like Thailand that prevented every Mohammed, Leroy and Patel becoming British citizens........Thailand may be or is laughable in some respects but just think how much better the UK would be doing immigration things the Thai way

Perhaps Thailand can import the UK system of making many tourists getting overpriced visas before they travel. The Brits like a good queue so I am sure that the idea of lining up at 6am to submit a tourist visa application with oodles of documentation which can then be rejected as easily as not.

Would be good at preventing visa running.

I think the idea has merit!

And then tit for tat.

End result, all those dual national Thais lose British citizenship, have to go back to Thailand and work. All those properties owned in the West (that were purchased under non-zenophobic laws) need to be sold within 1 year. Thais cannot work in prohibitted jobs in England - leaving them completely unable to work and live there. Restrictions on foreign money repatriation - all that money amassed in the UK can only stay in the UK. All Thais now living in the UK are on a tourist visa and have 30 days to leave. As this is not enough time to go to court and as a tourist they have ZERO legal rights, all is lost for all those Thais that do not suffer like farangs (with a Thai family) do in Thailand.

Get the point?

Case closed. Zenophobic off topic posts be it from whichever side should be started under a different topic.

[AngryParent]

Samran, I meant savings, not income. The minumum savings is Baht 80,000.

AP, in your case you would need to get a yellow house registration, Tor Ror 13. I have not been able to get one before as my landlord could not be bothered. However, now that I bought a house in my son's name, I will get my yellow book in the next week or so and start the ball rolling.

Minumum salary in case of being married to a Thai is Baht 40,000.

Which as you yourself noticed, the yellow book is rarer than 800 BC manuscripts.

Salary as I mentioned, is not what foreign employees working for the same govt that issues this citizenship get. I can get a WP for a govt. job that does not pay the minimum salary for foreigners but I cannot satisfy this citizenship.

And for me to go and work in some evil private school in BKK (where the boss will use me like toilet paper) to get 40,000 a month - I would need to be a slave for another 3 years to get tax returns stating 40,000 (when I already have 5 years of returns at a lower salary). Correct?

Three things:

- the regs subtly change from year to year, and there are always (in my experience) it seems exemptions for various things. I'm not saying there will be an exemption in your particular case for not having the income, but a visit to the Special Branch to fully explain your situation you may find out other attributes which you score points for and perhaps - perhaps - your working for a government school counts for something (and I say visit rather than phone call - things handled on a personal level in Thailand seem to always turn out better). I can't stress this enough, as they are helpful and they will try and point you in the direction which maximises your points and minimizes your problems in applying.

- Assuming you did go and work for an 'evil' private school, then you'd just need the tax return from the year before plus a letter from your school confirming your salary.

Once you have that and have successfully sumbmited the citizenship application there is no reason you can't quit and go back to what you are doing. So sucking it in for a year to get the higher salary may be a worthwhile move.

- The yellow books in some cases have been harder to get. But it is becoming more common so until you try you simply won't know.

Re yellow books. There was a change in the law in 2008 in the form of an amendment to the Civil Registration Act that made it obligatory for district offices to register all foreigners in tabien baan whether they are temporary or permanent residents. Previously they were only obliged to register foreign permanent residents. That means the district office has to issue you with a yellow book, if you request one and have documentation signed by the owner of your residence. In districts with a lot of foreign residents this is nowadays not a big deal but some district offices may pretend it can't done to avoid the hassle or may even be genuinely ignorant of the change in the law. Some TV members have reported that they managed to get it done in rural districts where there was genuine ignorance by employing the help of a law firm like Isaan Lawyers, who are good at this sort of stuff, to explain the regs politely to them. A yellow or blue tabien baan is an absolute requirement for applying for Thai citizenship.

Special Branch says it doesn't matter, if your circumstances change after you have submitted your application and before you have been approved. Personally I think it would safer to make sure that you are still doing a job with a salary that still qualifies you for citizenship until after you have passed the interview at the Interior Ministry. As Samran says, the regs change subtly and often and you don't want to be caught on the wrong side of this. For those applying on the basis of having a Thai wife, please note that your wife will have to go with you for the interview at the ministry. If you can't produce her for any reason, I assume the application is null and void.

Three complete calendar years of salary tax receipts, notarised by the Revenue Department, are required. (The notarisation process can be done without hassle at the Revenue Department for a miniscule fee.) The letter from your employer needs to confirm a salary that is exactly the same as the salary that you paid tax on the year before, as evidenced in your notarised tax receipts. This is somewhat quirky as it doesn't accommodate people who have had a pay rise. They have to get their employer to confirm a number that is out of date or even request a temporary salary reduction to get the job done. Please also note that the confirmation of savings in Thailand of at least Bt 80,000 has to be addressed to Special Branch by the bank in a set format that Special Branch will advise you of (usually after you have got it wrong the first time!). Also note that the bank statement requirement is only for a one time snapshot. They don't require copies of bank books or statements going back in time.

While we are about it, any one who thinks they might be interested in applying should start making regular donations to charities registered in Thailand. No precise number is given but they do make clear that they want to see evidence of donations going back over some time. At a guess I would say you probably need to be able show receipts of at least Bt 10,000 a year for three years.

And do please go and visit the Special Branch Naturalisation Section at National Police HQ, if you are at all interested. There is a great deal that that is not made explicit in the published regulations and guidelines. You could easily find you are qualified when you thought you probably weren't or vice versa. They are probably the nicest policemen and women you will ever meet in Thailand.

Thank you. I am planning to go, it is not that easy as it is almost a 10 hour return trip and I work (and the wife seems to think it is next to impossible based on a 30-40 minute call to BKK). If they are open on the weekends it would help.

You mention one possible loophole, a temporary salary increase. Could this be for say 3 months (to qualify for 40,000 a month), but previous 3 years tax receipts indicate a lower salary.?

Also, is it fixed that in the 3 year period one needs to have paid 50,000 in tax? As I cannot see, even if I did get 40,000 (under the tax system with a son and wife) I would be required to pay such - I get my tax done by and verified by the govt. and at a conservative estimate it would need about 5 years of tax to equal that. So, this is an inconsistancy.

[elektrified]

Please note that Thailand is a tourist country. If Thailand allows foreigners a citizenship, All foreigners will become Thai citizens and so in that case what will happen to the local poor Thai citizens. The policies here are to protect the local citizens and only allow citizenship to those who have enough resources to pay Thai government a tax and can earn revenue for Thai government and Thai people to strengthen Thai economy.

That's a remarkable statement.

Indeed! And idiotic beyond belief.

Personally, I do not see any reason for a foreigner to obtain Thai citizenship.

Edited November 28, 2011 by elektrified

[elektrified]

I don't think anyone applies for citizenship to be accepted as a Thai. There is no way in the world that I will ever be thought of as a Thai if I get citizenship. I will still be seen as a foreigner, but who just happens to have a Thai ID card. The main reasons for applying are the sense of security it provides and some of the things Tom mentions. Entering national parks at the Thai price is not a reason for the ID card, a driving license will suffice. But being able to work wherever you want and doing whatever you want without the need for a work permit would really be quite liberating. Being able to stay with your family and not having to worry that the money in your account is falling under the limit for a yearly extension. Not having to worry that the bar is raised making it difficult to be with your children.

I have lived in Thailand longer than I lived in the UK. This is home to me, the good and the bad and my family is here. My wife cannot work because of illness so if I had to leave because of visa issues she would be in trouble (she has no desire to live anywhere other than in Thailand and if I had to leave I would not be able to support her from afar). So by getting citizenship there would be added security for her.

O.K. I can understand where you are coming from. Makes sense -- in your case. Good luck with the process.

[CWMcMurray]

OP,

It is good to hear that you will plan a trip down to Bangkok at some point to discuss with the Special Branch directly. I haven't been to see them as of yet, (will be going after this years tax season), but from what others on this forum have advised they seem to be a fairly nice bunch that is willing to help advise if any way for you to qualify.

As you are a teacher, I would guess the best time may be once your school closes for term break, but during normal work week. Even if your wife believes it may be a waste of time, tell her that you are going to spring for a vacation in the big city, only catch is you have to set aside a few hours one of the days to go down and talk to the special branch officers while you are down in BKK.

If you just make it a small part of a larger trip / vacation, the wife should be ok with it. Especially if you put a bit aside for some shopping for the wife and then maybe take the kids to Ocean World or Safari world or Dream World....

[Arkady]

Thank you. I am planning to go, it is not that easy as it is almost a 10 hour return trip and I work (and the wife seems to think it is next to impossible based on a 30-40 minute call to BKK). If they are open on the weekends it would help.

You mention one possible loophole, a temporary salary increase. Could this be for say 3 months (to qualify for 40,000 a month), but previous 3 years tax receipts indicate a lower salary.?

Also, is it fixed that in the 3 year period one needs to have paid 50,000 in tax? As I cannot see, even if I did get 40,000 (under the tax system with a son and wife) I would be required to pay such - I get my tax done by and verified by the govt. and at a conservative estimate it would need about 5 years of tax to equal that. So, this is an inconsistancy.

The wording on this point in the 2009 ministerial guidelines was thus:

"3.2 Applicants with direct personal ties with Thailand, such as those married to a Thai citizen, those with children who are Thai citizens, or those who graduated from an institute of tertiary education in Thailand should have an income of not less than 40,000 baht a month supported by a letter of confirmation of monthly salary/income and must show evidence that they have paid tax for not less than 3 years; or they should have paid personal income tax of more than 50,000 baht per year for the 3 tax years prior to their application for naturalization."

At its most literal this seems to mean that you need to show evidence of earning 40,000 a month in the last year and evidence of paying tax in all three years. I don't understand what the point of the alternative qualification of paying 50,000 a year in tax for all three years which is clearly a more stringent condition that no one would choose if they had the option. Whatever alternative you choose, you still need to provide a letter from your employer confirming salary and the three years' of audited tax receipts. The guidelines don't really make sense here and may be a hang over from some previous guidelines. The only way to clarify this is by asking Special Branch. I can't remember them ever making any comment about the amount of tax I had paid, although it was comfortably above 50,000 a year but, as mentioned, some people report having been praised for paying a lot of tax in their Interior Ministry interviews.

[Arkady]

If you are from a wester country I dont under stand why you wants to be a thai citizen, but Im not sure where you coming from? Will your country allow you double citizen ship? It is a book called Thai Law (for farang) or similare, it's written in English. They write little bit about how to get Thai Citizen ship. I have also read about it in some other farang books as well. Some of their advice was if you wants to offer the time and expenses to apply for Thai citizen ships, start to learn read/write speak Thai fluently, pluss sing the Thai national song. It was here most people fail during their intervju. I will for sure fail when I have to sing in front of many people, and you know If you fail you are out.

Good luck

The singing is only required since 2008 by those without a Thai spouse. For those that do have to sing Special Branch makes sure they are good enough before forwarding their files to the Interior Ministry where they will have to sing again in front of a more critical audience during their interviews. Special Branch allows them several singing attempts on one day and, if they still can't pass, they are told to come back later and try again. Special Branch doesn't want applicants to fail at the Interior Ministry interview because of such a trivial thing as singing as that would reflect badly on them, as well as be a shame for the applicants. That is why they are strict about it and consequently I don't believe that many, if any, people in recent years have failed at the Interior Ministry because of singing.

It is true that you need to be able to speak Thai reasonably well in order to handle interviews where some formal legal language is used (clue: nearly all of it is to be found in the Nationality Act and Ministerial Guidelines) but they certainly don't require perfect fluency. You may fail, if your Thai is so hopeless that they can't interview you properly. I have heard of one person who reputedly failed the Interior Ministry interview because of this and his Thai is apparently virtually non-existent. I don't think this is at all common though. Since 2008 they will interview your Thai spouse with you and might allow her to help you out a couple of times in the interview.

[Time Traveller]

Thank you. I am planning to go, it is not that easy as it is almost a 10 hour return trip and I work (and the wife seems to think it is next to impossible based on a 30-40 minute call to BKK). If they are open on the weekends it would help.

You mention one possible loophole, a temporary salary increase. Could this be for say 3 months (to qualify for 40,000 a month), but previous 3 years tax receipts indicate a lower salary.?

Also, is it fixed that in the 3 year period one needs to have paid 50,000 in tax? As I cannot see, even if I did get 40,000 (under the tax system with a son and wife) I would be required to pay such - I get my tax done by and verified by the govt. and at a conservative estimate it would need about 5 years of tax to equal that. So, this is an inconsistancy.

The wording on this point in the 2009 ministerial guidelines was thus:

"3.2 Applicants with direct personal ties with Thailand, such as those married to a Thai citizen, those with children who are Thai citizens, or those who graduated from an institute of tertiary education in Thailand should have an income of not less than 40,000 baht a month supported by a letter of confirmation of monthly salary/income and must show evidence that they have paid tax for not less than 3 years; or they should have paid personal income tax of more than 50,000 baht per year for the 3 tax years prior to their application for naturalization."

At its most literal this seems to mean that you need to show evidence of earning 40,000 a month in the last year and evidence of paying tax in all three years. I don't understand what the point of the alternative qualification of paying 50,000 a year in tax for all three years which is clearly a more stringent condition that no one would choose if they had the option. Whatever alternative you choose, you still need to provide a letter from your employer confirming salary and the three years' of audited tax receipts. The guidelines don't really make sense here and may be a hang over from some previous guidelines. The only way to clarify this is by asking Special Branch. I can't remember them ever making any comment about the amount of tax I had paid, although it was comfortably above 50,000 a year but, as mentioned, some people report having been praised for paying a lot of tax in their Interior Ministry interviews.

Interesting that you point this option because it's not clear whether this was put in to include people on lower salaries but with other types of taxable income. And does it mean that the minimum is 40k only in the previous year? I'm interested to know what is "evidence" of tax paid is it just the PND 90/91 filing for the last year (and previous years) plus a year of the monthly withholding tax forms?

[samran]

Thank you. I am planning to go, it is not that easy as it is almost a 10 hour return trip and I work (and the wife seems to think it is next to impossible based on a 30-40 minute call to BKK). If they are open on the weekends it would help.

You mention one possible loophole, a temporary salary increase. Could this be for say 3 months (to qualify for 40,000 a month), but previous 3 years tax receipts indicate a lower salary.?

Also, is it fixed that in the 3 year period one needs to have paid 50,000 in tax? As I cannot see, even if I did get 40,000 (under the tax system with a son and wife) I would be required to pay such - I get my tax done by and verified by the govt. and at a conservative estimate it would need about 5 years of tax to equal that. So, this is an inconsistancy.

The wording on this point in the 2009 ministerial guidelines was thus:

"3.2 Applicants with direct personal ties with Thailand, such as those married to a Thai citizen, those with children who are Thai citizens, or those who graduated from an institute of tertiary education in Thailand should have an income of not less than 40,000 baht a month supported by a letter of confirmation of monthly salary/income and must show evidence that they have paid tax for not less than 3 years; or they should have paid personal income tax of more than 50,000 baht per year for the 3 tax years prior to their application for naturalization."

At its most literal this seems to mean that you need to show evidence of earning 40,000 a month in the last year and evidence of paying tax in all three years. I don't understand what the point of the alternative qualification of paying 50,000 a year in tax for all three years which is clearly a more stringent condition that no one would choose if they had the option. Whatever alternative you choose, you still need to provide a letter from your employer confirming salary and the three years' of audited tax receipts. The guidelines don't really make sense here and may be a hang over from some previous guidelines. The only way to clarify this is by asking Special Branch. I can't remember them ever making any comment about the amount of tax I had paid, although it was comfortably above 50,000 a year but, as mentioned, some people report having been praised for paying a lot of tax in their Interior Ministry interviews.

Interesting that you point this option because it's not clear whether this was put in to include people on lower salaries but with other types of taxable income. And does it mean that the minimum is 40k only in the previous year? I'm interested to know what is "evidence" of tax paid is it just the PND 90/91 filing for the last year (and previous years) plus a year of the monthly withholding tax forms?

To be honest, my understanding was simply that the income you needed to show was only in the past year. I'm a contractor so I regularly have 2 to 3 contracts running at any one time.

In my case, I was on a 1.5 year contract at the time I applied for my wife and the letter I produced to the special branch only stated my monthly salary from my highest paying contract and how long I had been with that organisation for.

I didn't show the salary from any other contracts I had at the time - and I'm pretty sure special branch didn't want to see them (ie you don't have to show off too much!).

Now I think about it more, that contract which I gave evidence of was a tax free salary (legally!), though nevertheless I did have to show evidence of tax payments from the previous years, those tax payments were on income which had nothing to do with the salary letter which I produced for the purposes of my wifes application. As such, to my mind, as long as you have paid tax, any tax, and have met the income threshold for the past 12 months you should be okay.

All the more reason to trot down to special branch.

Granted that we are talking about slightly different applications here, my wife's application is a precedent.

If special branch say that is the way it works I can't see why the OP can't:

1) suck it up and go work for a private school for a year to meet the threshold

2) set up a small company and do private tutoring to take him over the limit while keeping his day job.

[samran]

Hi Samran,

Is there any update regarding your citizenship application since its about 4-5 years already?

Cheers!

My wife applied in the first half of 2008. We received a call earlier this year to go in for the final interview, but have postponed it as we are out of the country till mid 2012.

Special branch simply asked for a letter explaining our situation (and we have very good extenuating circumstances) and they have been happy to put it aside until we ask them to put it back into the system.

[AngryParent]

Thank you. I am planning to go, it is not that easy as it is almost a 10 hour return trip and I work (and the wife seems to think it is next to impossible based on a 30-40 minute call to BKK). If they are open on the weekends it would help.

You mention one possible loophole, a temporary salary increase. Could this be for say 3 months (to qualify for 40,000 a month), but previous 3 years tax receipts indicate a lower salary.?

Also, is it fixed that in the 3 year period one needs to have paid 50,000 in tax? As I cannot see, even if I did get 40,000 (under the tax system with a son and wife) I would be required to pay such - I get my tax done by and verified by the govt. and at a conservative estimate it would need about 5 years of tax to equal that. So, this is an inconsistancy.

The wording on this point in the 2009 ministerial guidelines was thus:

"3.2 Applicants with direct personal ties with Thailand, such as those married to a Thai citizen, those with children who are Thai citizens, or those who graduated from an institute of tertiary education in Thailand should have an income of not less than 40,000 baht a month supported by a letter of confirmation of monthly salary/income and must show evidence that they have paid tax for not less than 3 years; or they should have paid personal income tax of more than 50,000 baht per year for the 3 tax years prior to their application for naturalization."

At its most literal this seems to mean that you need to show evidence of earning 40,000 a month in the last year and evidence of paying tax in all three years. I don't understand what the point of the alternative qualification of paying 50,000 a year in tax for all three years which is clearly a more stringent condition that no one would choose if they had the option. Whatever alternative you choose, you still need to provide a letter from your employer confirming salary and the three years' of audited tax receipts. The guidelines don't really make sense here and may be a hang over from some previous guidelines. The only way to clarify this is by asking Special Branch. I can't remember them ever making any comment about the amount of tax I had paid, although it was comfortably above 50,000 a year but, as mentioned, some people report having been praised for paying a lot of tax in their Interior Ministry interviews.

Interesting that you point this option because it's not clear whether this was put in to include people on lower salaries but with other types of taxable income. And does it mean that the minimum is 40k only in the previous year? I'm interested to know what is "evidence" of tax paid is it just the PND 90/91 filing for the last year (and previous years) plus a year of the monthly withholding tax forms?

To be honest, my understanding was simply that the income you needed to show was only in the past year. I'm a contractor so I regularly have 2 to 3 contracts running at any one time.

In my case, I was on a 1.5 year contract at the time I applied for my wife and the letter I produced to the special branch only stated my monthly salary from my highest paying contract and how long I had been with that organisation for.

I didn't show the salary from any other contracts I had at the time - and I'm pretty sure special branch didn't want to see them (ie you don't have to show off too much!).

Now I think about it more, that contract which I gave evidence of was a tax free salary (legally!), though nevertheless I did have to show evidence of tax payments from the previous years, those tax payments were on income which had nothing to do with the salary letter which I produced for the purposes of my wifes application. As such, to my mind, as long as you have paid tax, any tax, and have met the income threshold for the past 12 months you should be okay.

All the more reason to trot down to special branch.

Granted that we are talking about slightly different applications here, my wife's application is a precedent.

If special branch say that is the way it works I can't see why the OP can't:

1) suck it up and go work for a private school for a year to meet the threshold

2) set up a small company and do private tutoring to take him over the limit while keeping his day job.

Let me tell you what I heard from speaking to the local police - and only they can do the application - (an area where there are a lot of "foreigners" - but not Western) and there is a lot of money moving around (not mine).

1. Am I Chinese with Thai family i.e. old generation? NO - the response was good luck.

2. Am I female? No - the response was good luck.

3. Did I speak to the desk clerk? No - I spoke to the boss at police HQ. He has seen me about the city for many years and knows I am a teacher with a good reputation and thus spent the time to talk to me and he made multiple calls and got numerous local specialists (summoned to his office).

However, if I have a lot of good luck, he said please go to BKK and get a number of a person that says I have such good luck and he will proceed with my application in his station.

To a certain extent I got the impression he was saying don't waste your time or your money (trying to help me). And the KO was that he did not even ask for my salary - thus, all the previous posts are null and void and it at the end of the day means:

1. Is one rich with connections.

2. Is one part of the acceptable foreigners category i.e. old school Chinese with decades of family here.

3. Is one part of the lesser foreigner group i.e. farang females.

If not, good luck.

Make what you want of this!

Which now brings me back to my original post. Why work in a private evil school in BKK (and even they are not offering 40,000 after the floods - and they hire and fire by the hour) when it is looking like mission impossible? Even worse, try asking an evil boss for a letter for this process, the boss will then think they can ask me to work for free as they now have the poor farang by the nuts and can squeeze at any time! This is Thailand and you know how rough it can get. At least I have a "stable" job now, move to BKK for an unknown Thai citizenship result? Lose the job there and one must leave your kind country in 24 hours (+/-).

Using your own words, your wife applied in 2008 (almost 4 years back) and you are still at the interview stage. Add to this that the applicant is a female i.e. your wife is still a few unwritten points up the scale from all males. Even you do not work and live in Thailand now - says something!

Edited December 1, 2011 by AngryParent

[samran]

The local special branch only accept the application, the don't assess it. That is done in bangkok. And as said, they know squat.

If the special branch in bangkok on your visit there say you are eligible, ask them for their guidance on what is needed for the application, plus the phone number of the guy you speak to BUILD the relationship.

As for your assumptions about my wife's application. I don't understand what your meaning is in 'and you aren't even in Thailand'. Is that meant to be an insult?

The farangs I know who have either have, or have had their applications are nothing special, nor rich. They simply qualified. In my case I could have trotted out all sorts of connections, but was advised against it by special branch.

Fact is we are overseas for thoroughly legit -family-reasons. We are not only at the 'interview' stage. All the requisite checks and initial interviews with special branch, local police, MOI, were done in the inital 90 days as outlined. This was the final stage interview, which comes at the pretty usual 3 year mark.

I think you are building this thing up to be harder than it is. Sure, the expat grapevine builds up the obtaining Thai citizenship as some sort of mysterious process. Fact is, it is one of the more straightforward things you can do in Thailand.

[Awk]

Thank you. I am planning to go, it is not that easy as it is almost a 10 hour return trip and I work (and the wife seems to think it is next to impossible based on a 30-40 minute call to BKK). If they are open on the weekends it would help.

You mention one possible loophole, a temporary salary increase. Could this be for say 3 months (to qualify for 40,000 a month), but previous 3 years tax receipts indicate a lower salary.?

Also, is it fixed that in the 3 year period one needs to have paid 50,000 in tax? As I cannot see, even if I did get 40,000 (under the tax system with a son and wife) I would be required to pay such - I get my tax done by and verified by the govt. and at a conservative estimate it would need about 5 years of tax to equal that. So, this is an inconsistancy.

The wording on this point in the 2009 ministerial guidelines was thus:

"3.2 Applicants with direct personal ties with Thailand, such as those married to a Thai citizen, those with children who are Thai citizens, or those who graduated from an institute of tertiary education in Thailand should have an income of not less than 40,000 baht a month supported by a letter of confirmation of monthly salary/income and must show evidence that they have paid tax for not less than 3 years; or they should have paid personal income tax of more than 50,000 baht per year for the 3 tax years prior to their application for naturalization."

At its most literal this seems to mean that you need to show evidence of earning 40,000 a month in the last year and evidence of paying tax in all three years. I don't understand what the point of the alternative qualification of paying 50,000 a year in tax for all three years which is clearly a more stringent condition that no one would choose if they had the option. Whatever alternative you choose, you still need to provide a letter from your employer confirming salary and the three years' of audited tax receipts. The guidelines don't really make sense here and may be a hang over from some previous guidelines. The only way to clarify this is by asking Special Branch. I can't remember them ever making any comment about the amount of tax I had paid, although it was comfortably above 50,000 a year but, as mentioned, some people report having been praised for paying a lot of tax in their Interior Ministry interviews.

Is it not possible that the alternative, paying 50,000/year in tax, is independent of the requirements clearly

belonging to, at least, the 40,000/year income alternative? I.e., could it not be that the requirement for a letter of

confirmation is only a requirement for the 40,000/year income alternative?

The point of that, if so, could be to allow people who live in Thailand but work outside of Thailand (e.g., people

working shifts, 2 weeks on (outside Thailand), four weeks off (inside Thailand) to also qualify, if they find

it worthwhile to donate 50,000/year to the Thai "IRS".

If so AnnoyingParent could presumably qualify that way, if he manages to get together enough money to pay the

extra (otherwise unnecessary) tax, bringing his total paid tax to 50,000. Presumably he already pays some tax,

so perhaps there is not so much more needed.

[AngryParent]

The local special branch only accept the application, the don't assess it. That is done in bangkok. And as said, they know squat.

If the special branch in bangkok on your visit there say you are eligible, ask them for their guidance on what is needed for the application, plus the phone number of the guy you speak to BUILD the relationship.

As for your assumptions about my wife's application. I don't understand what your meaning is in 'and you aren't even in Thailand'. Is that meant to be an insult?

The farangs I know who have either have, or have had their applications are nothing special, nor rich. They simply qualified. In my case I could have trotted out all sorts of connections, but was advised against it by special branch.

Fact is we are overseas for thoroughly legit -family-reasons. We are not only at the 'interview' stage. All the requisite checks and initial interviews with special branch, local police, MOI, were done in the inital 90 days as outlined. This was the final stage interview, which comes at the pretty usual 3 year mark.

I think you are building this thing up to be harder than it is. Sure, the expat grapevine builds up the obtaining Thai citizenship as some sort of mysterious process. Fact is, it is one of the more straightforward things you can do in Thailand.

I am sure you are trying to help and equally I am trying to protect my family and also not fall into another trap in this honest country, or lose whatever little money I have (you can come and go in Thailand - if I lose my job or my minor savings, the family dies)!

However, this does not negate the validity of the world from where I stand!

You claim the local Special Branch do not assess it, but they MUST take the fee and the application. Thus, your view is flawed as: if the local office is wrong, one loses the money - 10,000 Baht now!

Read it again - no insult in the previous post.

"Fact is, it is one of the more straightforward things you can do in Thailand." In comparison to what? Seeing a dentist, or trying to live in Thailand with my wife under international human rights law (that Thailand has signed)?

[AngryParent]

Thank you. I am planning to go, it is not that easy as it is almost a 10 hour return trip and I work (and the wife seems to think it is next to impossible based on a 30-40 minute call to BKK). If they are open on the weekends it would help.

You mention one possible loophole, a temporary salary increase. Could this be for say 3 months (to qualify for 40,000 a month), but previous 3 years tax receipts indicate a lower salary.?

Also, is it fixed that in the 3 year period one needs to have paid 50,000 in tax? As I cannot see, even if I did get 40,000 (under the tax system with a son and wife) I would be required to pay such - I get my tax done by and verified by the govt. and at a conservative estimate it would need about 5 years of tax to equal that. So, this is an inconsistancy.

The wording on this point in the 2009 ministerial guidelines was thus:

"3.2 Applicants with direct personal ties with Thailand, such as those married to a Thai citizen, those with children who are Thai citizens, or those who graduated from an institute of tertiary education in Thailand should have an income of not less than 40,000 baht a month supported by a letter of confirmation of monthly salary/income and must show evidence that they have paid tax for not less than 3 years; or they should have paid personal income tax of more than 50,000 baht per year for the 3 tax years prior to their application for naturalization."

At its most literal this seems to mean that you need to show evidence of earning 40,000 a month in the last year and evidence of paying tax in all three years. I don't understand what the point of the alternative qualification of paying 50,000 a year in tax for all three years which is clearly a more stringent condition that no one would choose if they had the option. Whatever alternative you choose, you still need to provide a letter from your employer confirming salary and the three years' of audited tax receipts. The guidelines don't really make sense here and may be a hang over from some previous guidelines. The only way to clarify this is by asking Special Branch. I can't remember them ever making any comment about the amount of tax I had paid, although it was comfortably above 50,000 a year but, as mentioned, some people report having been praised for paying a lot of tax in their Interior Ministry interviews.

Is it not possible that the alternative, paying 50,000/year in tax, is independent of the requirements clearly

belonging to, at least, the 40,000/year income alternative? I.e., could it not be that the requirement for a letter of

confirmation is only a requirement for the 40,000/year income alternative?

The point of that, if so, could be to allow people who live in Thailand but work outside of Thailand (e.g., people

working shifts, 2 weeks on (outside Thailand), four weeks off (inside Thailand) to also qualify, if they find

it worthwhile to donate 50,000/year to the Thai "IRS".

If so AnnoyingParent could presumably qualify that way, if he manages to get together enough money to pay the

extra (otherwise unnecessary) tax, bringing his total paid tax to 50,000. Presumably he already pays some tax,

so perhaps there is not so much more needed.

I always love to hear those wise words that are without thought.

OK, donate 50,000 Baht. Does not work in TAX land. One now needs to fabricate previous employment, earnings etc to justify a tax bill of 50,000. It is a slippery slope to jail

NEXT!.