phiphidon Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 And if you're not eligible to vote (at all) you especially don't have the right to complain about what those that are elected do........................ Very different scenarios. In one, you are given a choice to participate and you choose not to, then you come back later and say "Oh, I want participate now". In the other case, you aren't given the opportunity to choose. Are you suggesting that we don't have a right to complain about visas and work permits, or education, or driving skills, or anything else about life in Thailand? And maybe he means that those that doesn't pay taxes have no right in saying how the tax-money gets used... Well thats a no taxation without representation arguement. If you can't vote you don't really have a say in the matter. As I said nobodies stopping you from talking about it it's just a fact that you cannot directly influence what happens without a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 3. 25% of the people who were eligible to vote didn't bother. It is this figure that I'm always interested in.....while some may have been unable to vote (infirm etc) I tend to take the view that these no voters didn't because there was nobody worth voting for. Voting should NEVER be compulsory, as I understand it is here. And if it's compulsory then there should be a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" box to tick.... There is a "None of the above" box to tick. 4% selected that. edit: if you can't be bothered to vote, then you don't have the right to complain about what those that are elected do. And if you're not eligible to vote (at all) you especially don't have the right to complain about what those that are elected do........................ Typical..... you, as a farang, don't have the right to vote, but you have the right to speak yes? But anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't have the right to speak? Yay for red farang democracy. +1 again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 And if you're not eligible to vote (at all) you especially don't have the right to complain about what those that are elected do........................ Very different scenarios. In one, you are given a choice to participate and you choose not to, then you come back later and say "Oh, I want participate now". In the other case, you aren't given the opportunity to choose. Are you suggesting that we don't have a right to complain about visas and work permits, or education, or driving skills, or anything else about life in Thailand? And maybe he means that those that doesn't pay taxes have no right in saying how the tax-money gets used... Well thats a no taxation without representation arguement. If you can't vote you don't really have a say in the matter. As I said nobodies stopping you from talking about it it's just a fact that you cannot directly influence what happens without a vote. You mean like Thaksin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). The underdogs are empowered. The Thais don't need Thaksin's "best intentions" anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 And if you're not eligible to vote (at all) you especially don't have the right to complain about what those that are elected do........................ Typical..... you, as a farang, don't have the right to vote, but you have the right to speak yes? But anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't have the right to speak? Yay for red farang democracy. Did I say that anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't have the right to speak - No. Did I say that non Thai's without a vote have no say on what a Thai elected Governent can or cannot do - Yes. They can chatter away all they want (and they do, they do) but it will not and can not make a difference to Thai governance. Any problem with that? Only to wonder, who will define the difference for us, between 'chattering' (allowed) & 'complaining' (not allowed) about what goes on ? I think I myself would lean towards freedom-of-speech on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yingluck and Pracha have stated that the PTP government will not do anything to help any individual. Are you listening Chalerm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). A decade ago, Thaksin led a conglomerate political-party which helped make the interests of the poor more-important, and deserves the credit for that. He's fondly-remembered by many of the poor for it. Which doesn't mean he has the right to run the country now, directly or indirectly, or to put his friends & family in-control. Not if they're aiming for democracy rather than a hopefully-benign dictatorship. In taking that firm stance against drugs and terrorism, he went way-beyond the law, the thousands of dead deserved a trial at least, ditto for the peaceful-protesters last year. He also refuses now to accept the rule-of-law, or any sentence passed by the courts, as applying to himself. Does political popularity put him beyond the rule-of-law ? Shouldn't governments and PMs have to work within the law ? "No need to talk about corruption" ? Not even when it involved passing laws for the benefit of his own or family interests ? IMO that's 'stretching the rules' further than many of us on TV would think acceptable. So is he really still the best leader for Thailand now, or can further progress towards democracy yet be made, without passing new laws to wipe the slate clean, for this one man alone ? Thailand needs to move forwards, not backwards, and Thaksin is not the only person who can lead the country in the right direction. I think it is long past time, for him to accept that "sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many", and that it's his turn to pay, not with his life but just with his chances of regaining political-power. What counts is that further progress is made, not who gets the credit, in most modern countries. Perhaps this can apply here too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKK Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections. The last election was not only about Taksin's return ... at least I hope it was I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, So it's OK by you to have a convicted criminal running the country .... duh.... isn't that a bit like saying Napolean and Hitler were OK because all they wanted was a unified Europe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections. The last election was not only about Taksin's return ... at least I hope it was I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, So it's OK by you to have a convicted criminal running the country .... duh.... isn't that a bit like saying Napolean and Hitler were OK because all they wanted was a unified Europe... Dear Gweiloman, Please share some examples of how thaksin is 'doing more of the right things than the others'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKK Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Did I say that anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't have the right to speak - No. Did I say that non Thai's without a vote have no say on what a Thai elected Governent can or cannot do - Yes. They can chatter away all they want (and they do, they do) but it will not and can not make a difference to Thai governance. Any problem with that? yes ...I have a problem with it..... while we may have no direct (voting) way of influencing Thai governance we can influence it indirectly by discussion with those that do have voting rights. I like many here I'm sure are asked by our Thai spouses, partners, friends for our opinions on various subjects including Thai politics. Do our opinions have any effect on what that Thai then thinks about the matter under discussion? Sometimes yes sometimes no....so your will not and can not make a difference is completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yingluck and Pracha have stated that the PTP government will not do anything to help any individual. Are you listening Chalerm? Making a bit of an assumption about who Chalerm works for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). The solid victory had much more to do with the perks being promised than Thaksin Thinks PTP acts. And as the perks evaporate, the majority of not hard core Thaksinistas are becoming quite disaffected. PTP promised the sun moon and stars, and that had much more to do with winning the election than Thaksin. Of course now the Thaksin crowd tries to spin it that it was all about him and the perks are just part of his great largesse for the people. Total Poppycock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Deputy PM Pushes for Amnesty Bill A deputy prime minister insists the government will move ahead with the amnesty bill for people involved in the events that took place after the 2006 coup, including fugitive former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobumrung stated that the amnesty law will be pushed forward, but the proceeding must be carried out in an appropriate time and in favor of all parties. He added that a national referendum to seek public approval on the law is not needed, as voters made their decision through their ballots on July 3rd. Chalerm noted that any eligible party that disagrees with the amnesty bill can abandon its rights. He went on to say the Opposition should not seek opportunities to attack Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra during the upcoming censure debate against Justice Minister Police General Pracha Promnok over the draft amnesty allegedly engineered to benefit ousted Premier Thaksin Shinwatra or over General Pracha's inefficiency as the director of the Flood Relief Operations Center. Charlerm said Yongluck has nothing to do with the debate issues. He said the debate against Pracha should take only three hours, not one day as the opposition bloc believes, and he expressed confidence that the latter is capable of answering questions during the debate. He added that his Pheu Thai Party has no need to assign particular MPs to help him defend himself in response to allegations against him. However, he said cabinet members are permitted to offer explanation if the debate involves the work of their ministries. -- Tan Network 2011-11-24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Well thats a no taxation without representation arguement. If you can't vote you don't really have a say in the matter. As I said nobodies stopping you from talking about it it's just a fact that you cannot directly influence what happens without a vote. You mean like Thaksin? No, I meant if you are not a thai citizen with a vote - come on it's not that hard to read what I meant despite your attempts to twist the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). You are ofcourse wrong, and if the last election was any indicator - as you would like us to believe - then you are already proven wrong and PTP gained the minority win from a reduced voter-count. Not even Hammered and other pro-Red/PTP posters here would try to say that the first group is the biggest - in fact his argument has been all along that those that don't care are the biggest and therefor it would be ok if Thaksin came back if things would improve [due to decreased violent insurrections from Red Shirts I suppose]. Maybe you guys should sort out your talking-points first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby nz Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Was wondering if an amaesty for Thaksin would cover all of his past crimes, like the ones yet to reach court because he is not here to hear them . Or perhaps all future crimes as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Charlerm said Yingluck has nothing to do with the debate issues. -- Tan Network 2011-11-24 Is he trying to infer that she is not accountable for the people that she put in places of responsibility? Wait a sec, she didn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Pointless off topic bickering removed. Nobody really wants to read it, so best just keep it to yourself, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). 48% PT only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). 48% PT only "I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism." "Empowering the underdogs", suggest you do some further research on this. The paymaster has no interest whatever in empowering the underdogs, he totally exploits their naivety, and they are part of his manufactured smokescreen to try to make him look good. ".....particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Sorry, can't agree. Please share how the underdogs are taking a firm stance against drugs and terrorism. Plus it's well established that he did not start his 'war on drugs' for Thailand, he started it because of a personal problem close to home, plus not one drug lord / not one scaly politician (well known to be the drug kingpins) was touched. ......Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many." If your referring to the paymasters war on drugs approx 2,500 lives lost (without any form of judicial process)plus the Tak Bai incident approx 300 Thai lives lost - suffocated to death, well that's about 3,800, you call that a few? Even if 1 life was lost in the circumstances it is certainly not OK. "No need to talk about corruption". How so, Unless there is continued pressure through various forms of dialogue then yes nothing will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Was wondering if an amaesty for Thaksin would cover all of his past crimes, like the ones yet to reach court because he is not here to hear them . Or perhaps all future crimes as well? Good point, is it really sufficient for Chalerm's amnesty to only apply, to crimes after September-2006 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). 48% PT only Yes, and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). You are ofcourse wrong, and if the last election was any indicator - as you would like us to believe - then you are already proven wrong and PTP gained the minority win from a reduced voter-count. Not even Hammered and other pro-Red/PTP posters here would try to say that the first group is the biggest - in fact his argument has been all along that those that don't care are the biggest and therefor it would be ok if Thaksin came back if things would improve [due to decreased violent insurrections from Red Shirts I suppose]. Maybe you guys should sort out your talking-points first. Either way, there are more that wants him back than those that don't, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). 48% PT only "I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism." "Empowering the underdogs", suggest you do some further research on this. The paymaster has no interest whatever in empowering the underdogs, he totally exploits their naivety, and they are part of his manufactured smokescreen to try to make him look good. ".....particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Sorry, can't agree. Please share how the underdogs are taking a firm stance against drugs and terrorism. Plus it's well established that he did not start his 'war on drugs' for Thailand, he started it because of a personal problem close to home, plus not one drug lord / not one scaly politician (well known to be the drug kingpins) was touched. ......Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many." If your referring to the paymasters war on drugs approx 2,500 lives lost (without any form of judicial process)plus the Tak Bai incident approx 300 Thai lives lost - suffocated to death, well that's about 3,800, you call that a few? Even if 1 life was lost in the circumstances it is certainly not OK. "No need to talk about corruption". How so, Unless there is continued pressure through various forms of dialogue then yes nothing will change. He HAS empowered the underdogs, don't you agree? Whether he continues to do so or not remains to be seen. No one knows for certain. You misread/misunderstood about underdogs and drugs. It is Thaksin taking a firm stance against drugs, not the underdogs. Why he started this has no relevance. Fact is that the majority of Thais know there is a problem and wants something done about it. In your world, even 1 life lost in the circumstances is not OK. Thats a western value that's not applicable to this part of the world. We have enough examples of criminals, murderers and rapists being set free only to then commit more crimes including taking more lives. Is that OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). The solid victory had much more to do with the perks being promised than Thaksin Thinks PTP acts. And as the perks evaporate, the majority of not hard core Thaksinistas are becoming quite disaffected. PTP promised the sun moon and stars, and that had much more to do with winning the election than Thaksin. Of course now the Thaksin crowd tries to spin it that it was all about him and the perks are just part of his great largesse for the people. Total Poppycock. I usually skip your posts as I am not interested in what you have to say. However, I would have never thought that you are naive as well. The solid victory is all about bringing Thaksin back - practically all your fellow supporters have said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 In your world, even 1 life lost in the circumstances is not OK. Thats a western value that's not applicable to this part of the world. We have enough examples of criminals, murderers and rapists being set free only to then commit more crimes including taking more lives. Is that OK? Oh the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are 3 groups of Thais with regards to Thaksin's return - those that want him back - those that don't - those that don't care either way IMO, the first group is that biggest of the three, as evidenced by PT's resounding victory in the recent elections.Too bad that the majority of posters on this forum can't vote (though they can with their feet if they wanted to). However, Thais can and they did. I want Thaksin to return because he is doing more of the right things than the others, particularly in empowering the underdogs and taking firm stances against drugs and terrorism. Innocent people got hurt and killed but unfortunately, these things happen even with the best of intentions. In a developing country, sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many. No need to talk about corruption - this will continue to happen for far longer than any of us will live, regardless of which party or individual will be in power - it will take a lot of time and many generations for this to be eradicated (till today, there is still corruption in the developed western world). A decade ago, Thaksin led a conglomerate political-party which helped make the interests of the poor more-important, and deserves the credit for that. He's fondly-remembered by many of the poor for it. Which doesn't mean he has the right to run the country now, directly or indirectly, or to put his friends & family in-control. Not if they're aiming for democracy rather than a hopefully-benign dictatorship. In taking that firm stance against drugs and terrorism, he went way-beyond the law, the thousands of dead deserved a trial at least, ditto for the peaceful-protesters last year. He also refuses now to accept the rule-of-law, or any sentence passed by the courts, as applying to himself. Does political popularity put him beyond the rule-of-law ? Shouldn't governments and PMs have to work within the law ? "No need to talk about corruption" ? Not even when it involved passing laws for the benefit of his own or family interests ? IMO that's 'stretching the rules' further than many of us on TV would think acceptable. So is he really still the best leader for Thailand now, or can further progress towards democracy yet be made, without passing new laws to wipe the slate clean, for this one man alone ? Thailand needs to move forwards, not backwards, and Thaksin is not the only person who can lead the country in the right direction. I think it is long past time, for him to accept that "sometimes a few are sadly sacrificed for the good of many", and that it's his turn to pay, not with his life but just with his chances of regaining political-power. What counts is that further progress is made, not who gets the credit, in most modern countries. Perhaps this can apply here too ? Well reasoned post. Is he the best leader for Thailand currently? Is there an alternative? Is the continued division good for Thailand? Obviously not. What's the solution? Keep Thaksin out or let him come back under a royal pardon with a lifetime ban from politics and no jail time. Which is the lesser of two evils? For Thailand and the Thai people, not us farangs. Since it is abundantly clear, even from the statements of the Thaksin haters that it is only a minority that wants him to pay/suffer for his crimes, I say let him back under the conditions stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Is the continued division good for Thailand? Obviously not. What's the solution? Keep Thaksin out or let him come back under a royal pardon with a lifetime ban from politics and no jail time. Which is the lesser of two evils? Do you seriously think that he would agree to those terms? Do you think that if he agreed to those terms that he would abide by his word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Do you think that if he agreed to those terms that he would abide by his word? Exactly. Credibility equals ZERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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