Wat Phra Kaew

[brianmarinus]

This is the litle temple, across the street from the thai hospital.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113661392164579317041/WatPaGaew?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCOK-jMG3uOiixAE&feat=directlink

[sceadugenga]

Nice photos...

I notice a few haven't come up, is it a a Picasa problem or is it me?

I'm having the same problem in my own Picasa album.

[brianmarinus]

Nice photos...

I notice a few haven't come up, is it a a Picasa problem or is it me?

I'm having the same problem in my own Picasa album.

No problem here.

[Riggi]

All of the photos in the picasa album show up for me.

You've been busy with your camera lately Brian.

Keep them coming. It gives me a good idea of things and places to see when I have some free time.

[brianmarinus]

Hi Riggi!

Dont worry-I love to drive around in the area and take pictures-and until now,I think I have 12-13000 of them-so there is plenty to take of.

[sceadugenga]

That's a lot of photos, I had about 4GB last time I looked but I delete a lot now.

Anything substandard or similar to another gets flushed.

Strange with Picasa... trouble with these huge websites is that it's hard to get any real advice.... I'll google around for a forum...

[Limbo]

"This is the litle temple, across the street from the thai hospital", Brianmarinus wrote.

For those who are not from Chiang Rai and who read this I would like to add that this is one

of the oldest and most important temples of northern Thailand (among others since 1978 the first

Royal Temple of Chiang Rai). Thanks Brianmarinus for giving attention to it with your excellent pictures!

It was here that according to ancient writings almost sixhundred years ago the Phra Keaw was uncovered

after lightning struck the chedi in which it supposedly was hidden. It's a fascinating story and after typing

'Wat Phra Keaw' (or Phra Kaeo as it is spelled sometimes) on Youtube you will have access to some beautiful

(among others made by German television) documentaries about it. Otherwise try "Emerald Buddha' as the jade

Buddha is called in English.

The Emerald Buddha became a royal requisite of 'Given Power' and is therefore now the centre-point

of the Wat Phra Keaw in Bangkok. In Chiang Rai we see an exact copy of the original sculpture, as

many say made in China out of Canadian jade.

Not so many years ago the newly renovated temple was inaugurated by HRH Princess Sirindhorn.

She presided over the ceremony that brought the Chofa (the decorative gable finial) to its place.

The golden gondola used in this ceremony, the carrier of the Chofa, is with its beautiful decorations

one of the finer pieces in the exhibition.

The teakwooden museum is built in traditional style by a small group of local craftsmen. A retired

former curator of the technical museum in Bangkok did the excellent and rewarding job to give it

the almost ceremonial beauty it has today.

Limbo

PS: Brianmarinus: many foreigners refer to the governmental hospital as 'the Thai hospital'.

The hospital you mention is the Overbrook hospital, of which the oldest part (about hundred years)

certainly also can be called a monument. Please have a look at it through the lens of your camera.

Thanks again!

Edited November 23, 2011 by Limbo

[brianmarinus]

That's a lot of photos, I had about 4GB last time I looked but I delete a lot now.

Anything substandard or similar to another gets flushed.

Strange with Picasa... trouble with these huge websites is that it's hard to get any real advice.... I'll google around for a forum...

You are aware that in window live skydrive, you can store up to 25 GB for free and then send people a link-just as Picasa.

[brianmarinus]

That's a lot of photos, I had about 4GB last time I looked but I delete a lot now.

Anything substandard or similar to another gets flushed.

Strange with Picasa... trouble with these huge websites is that it's hard to get any real advice.... I'll google around for a forum...

You are aware that in window live skydrive, you can store up to 25 GB for free and then send people a link-just as Picasa.

Yes, thats alot of photos-I have them on CD/DVD now so can cansel them-my problem was for a long time,that alot of them was on facebook-and not on my hard disk,and at that time, you could download one photo at the time from facebook,so that was hopeless.

Today you actualy can download, everything you have posted on facebook, from the date you made the account and forward.

[wileycoyote]

Good Posting & excellent photos

[bahnhof]

Great pictures. Love Thai/Lao temple architecture. Thanks.

[Xangsamhua]

I guess this is the temple that housed the Phra Kaew (Emerald Buddha) that was removed to Luang Prabang and then to Vientiane by King Setthathirath of Lane Xang when he had suzerainty over Chiangmai and Chiang Rai in the middle years of the 16th century. It was subsequently removed by the Siamese to Bangkok after the Siam-Lao wars of 1827-28.

So that gives us two Wat Phra Kaews - one in Chiang Rai and one in Bangkok. Then there is Haw Phra Kaew ("Hall of the Emerald Buddha") in Vientiane - not called a Wat, I suppose, because there have been no monks there since the Siamese razed the city in 1828.

Perhaps, like the Greeks have petitioned the British government, the people of Chiang Rai should petition the Thai government to return their treasures to their place of origin.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Xangsamhua

[svenivan]

that was removed to Luang Prabang and then to Vientiane by King Setthathirath of Lane Xang when he had suzerainty over Chiangmai and Chiang Rai in the middle years of the 16th century.

I heard another story. According to that story the Emerald Buddha were in Chiang Mai and the wife of the present King of Lanna came from Laos and she wanted to show her family in Luang Prabang the Emerald Buddha. She promised to be back with the Buddha within a month but never came back to Chiang Mai again.

Maybe we can learn something from this story.

The museum inside the temple is very interesting.

[sbk]

Topic title edited to reflect correct name of the Wat, in the future, please use the report button a bit earlier, thanks

[villagefarang]

If we hit the report button every time Brian got it wrong the moderators would get no rest at all.

[brianmarinus]

If we hit the report button every time Brian got it wrong the moderators would get no rest at all.

Thanks alot-I can stop posting,so you experts in everything can have the fun about your self.

[Xangsamhua]

that was removed to Luang Prabang and then to Vientiane by King Setthathirath of Lane Xang when he had suzerainty over Chiangmai and Chiang Rai in the middle years of the 16th century.

I heard another story. According to that story the Emerald Buddha were in Chiang Mai and the wife of the present King of Lanna came from Laos and she wanted to show her family in Luang Prabang the Emerald Buddha. She promised to be back with the Buddha within a month but never came back to Chiang Mai again.

Maybe we can learn something from this story.

The museum inside the temple is very interesting.

Yes, I don't have any Lao history texts here with me, so in the time available can only refer to Wikipedia, but it looks to me like Setthathirath went to Luang Prabang on his father's death and intended to return to Chiangmai. Having the Emerald Buddha with him would be some guarantee that he could do so. Anyway, it seems he changed his mind, or it was changed for him, and the people in Chiangmai got sick of waiting for him, so placed Chao Mae Ku on the Lanna throne.

I had always thought the Emerald Buddha was actually located in Chiangmai, but I guess Chiang Rai was part of the kingdom of Chiangmai/Lanna (unless there's another Wat Phra Kaew in Chiangmai, too!!).

[villagefarang]

If we hit the report button every time Brian got it wrong the moderators would get no rest at all.

Thanks alot-I can stop posting,so you experts in everything can have the fun about your self.

Don’t be so sensitive. Your mistakes are cute and endearing, kind of your online signature.

[Paul888]

I will be pressing the report button to have my spelling checked immediately after posting from now on.

[sceadugenga]

Be careful, sbk demands a very high standard of spelling from people who press report buttons. (Take note of the whip).

[changraider]

If we hit the report button every time Brian got it wrong the moderators would get no rest at all.

Thanks alot-I can stop posting,so you experts in everything can have the fun about your self.

Hey Brian, don't stop posting, it would be terrible to see this forum completely overtaken by sarcastic anglo-saxons, whose ability in one language is often pretty limited :-)

[harrry]

วัดพระแก้ว wút prá gâir-o Phra Kaeo Temple

Actually Brian was not too wrong translitterating the thai gor gai as G it is probably more correct although the practice is otherwise.

[Lizard2010]

Thanks for sharing the photos.

Cant wait till we return to Thailand again.

[Limbo]

If we hit the report button every time Brian got it wrong the moderators would get no rest at all.

Thanks alot-I can stop posting,so you experts in everything can have the fun about your self.

Don't worry Brianmarinus, none of us would like you to stop posting.

Your contributions are greatly appreciated by many.

It was actually me who asked the moderators to change the title of your thread.

I think that in a public forum like Thaivisa in matters related to the Royal Institution

of Thailand the right names and titles should be used. As Harrry also pointed out: phonetically

you were very close, especially with your Danish mother tongue in mind, but in transliteration

to the Thai language it went lost.

Don't worry!

And to SBK:

Thanks for changing the title. My reaction was indeed a little bit late, but I didn't see it

as my task.

Limbo

[konjianghai]

I guess this is the temple that housed the Phra Kaew (Emerald Buddha) that was removed to Luang Prabang and then to Vientiane by King Setthathirath of Lane Xang when he had suzerainty over Chiangmai and Chiang Rai in the middle years of the 16th century. It was subsequently removed by the Siamese to Bangkok after the Siam-Lao wars of 1827-28.

So that gives us two Wat Phra Kaews - one in Chiang Rai and one in Bangkok. Then there is Haw Phra Kaew ("Hall of the Emerald Buddha") in Vientiane - not called a Wat, I suppose, because there have been no monks there since the Siamese razed the city in 1828.

Perhaps, like the Greeks have petitioned the British government, the people of Chiang Rai should petition the Thai government to return their treasures to their place of origin.

That's what i always want to happen.

Yes, I don't have any Lao history texts here with me, so in the time available can only refer to Wikipedia, but it looks to me like Setthathirath went to Luang Prabang on his father's death and intended to return to Chiangmai. Having the Emerald Buddha with him would be some guarantee that he could do so. Anyway, it seems he changed his mind, or it was changed for him, and the people in Chiangmai got sick of waiting for him, so placed Chao Mae Ku on the Lanna throne.

I had always thought the Emerald Buddha was actually located in Chiangmai, but I guess Chiang Rai was part of the kingdom of Chiangmai/Lanna (unless there's another Wat Phra Kaew in Chiangmai, too!!).

Nope it's origin is native to Chiang Rai, statue is of Chiang Saen style. It was brought to CM since it's discovery. That's all. Should be home in CR not somewhere else.

Edited November 28, 2011 by konjianghai

[Limbo]

In a cosmological related context its possession has become a requisite of a legitimizing

confirmation of worldly power. Therefore it is also now where it has been for centuries already

namely there where the Highest Institution resides. The fact that it gold clothings more or less

belong to the Royal Regalia supports this view.

But as Konjianghai already pointed out: its origine is here! The Chiang Saen style, embedded

in Lanna culture, indicates it clearly.

The find of such an uniquely sized piece of jade must have been perceived as a 'sign from above'

and he, she or those who decided to honor its nature by shaping it into a Buddha image have thus

chosen to add an enormous mythological power to it.

Early chronicles that could shade light on early Thai history are partly contradictory (depending

on the views of the person that ordered their writings), so legends had to explain and confirm

its historical relevance. However, the existing historical sources locate Chiang Rai as the place

where the Emerald Buddha was discovered (in 1434?).

The emerald became jade in the mean time and that will not be the end of the historical fact-finding.

It is great that Chiang Rai has been honored with a copy of the original image, blessed by

His Majesty The King of Thailand, an honor confirmed by His Daughter, HRH Princess Sirindhorn

when She inaugurated the new temple a few years ago.

Therefore I hold the opinion that the present Emerald Buddha of Chiang Rai may reflect the pride

of Chiang Rai for being the location where the one and only Phra Kaeo Morakot revealed itself.

Limbo

[changraider]

In a cosmological related context its possession has become a requisite of a legitimizing

confirmation of worldly power. Therefore it is also now where it has been for centuries already

namely there where the Highest Institution resides. The fact that it gold clothings more or less

belong to the Royal Regalia supports this view.

But as Konjianghai already pointed out: its origine is here! The Chiang Saen style, embedded

in Lanna culture, indicates it clearly.

The find of such an uniquely sized piece of jade must have been perceived as a 'sign from above'

and he, she or those who decided to honor its nature by shaping it into a Buddha image have thus

chosen to add an enormous mythological power to it.

Early chronicles that could shade light on early Thai history are partly contradictory (depending

on the views of the person that ordered their writings), so legends had to explain and confirm

its historical relevance. However, the existing historical sources locate Chiang Rai as the place

where the Emerald Buddha was discovered (in 1434?).

The emerald became jade in the mean time and that will not be the end of the historical fact-finding.

It is great that Chiang Rai has been honored with a copy of the original image, blessed by

His Majesty The King of Thailand, an honor confirmed by His Daughter, HRH Princess Sirindhorn

when She inaugurated the new temple a few years ago.

Therefore I hold the opinion that the present Emerald Buddha of Chiang Rai may reflect the pride

of Chiang Rai for being the location where the one and only Phra Kaeo Morakot revealed itself.

Limbo

Thanks for your informative input Limbo. I think I've found myself completely by chance in 3 of the temporal houses of the Emerald Buddha - at Chiang Rai, Luang Prabang and Vientiane. In addition to the cosmological importance you refer to, the spiritual importance cannot really be understood by most of us fls I believe, including me!

[svenivan]

But as Konjianghai already pointed out: its origine is here! The Chiang Saen style, embedded

in Lanna culture, indicates it clearly.

The find of such an uniquely sized piece of jade must have been perceived as a 'sign from above'

and he, she or those who decided to honor its nature by shaping it into a Buddha image have thus

chosen to add an enormous mythological power to it.

Limbo

From Wikipedia:

"According to the legend, the Emerald Buddha was created in India in 43 BC by Nagasena in the city of Pataliputra (today's Patna). The legends state that after remaining in Pataliputra for three hundred years, it was taken to Sri Lanka to save it from a civil war. In 457, King Anuruth of Burma sent a mission to Ceylon to ask for Buddhist scriptures and the Emerald Buddha, in order to support Buddhism in his country. These requests were granted, but the ship lost its way in a storm during the return voyage and landed in Cambodia. When the Thais captured Angkor Wat in 1432 (following the ravage of the bubonic plague), the Emerald Buddha was taken to Ayutthaya, Kamphaeng Phet, Laos and finally Chiang Rai, where the ruler of the city hid it. Cambodian historians recorded capture of the Buddha statue in their famous Preah Ko Preah Keo legend. However, some art historians describe the Emerald Buddha as belonging to the Chiang Saen Style of the 15th century AD, which would mean it is actually of Lannathai origin.

Historical sources indicate that the statue surfaced in northern Thailand in the Lannathai kingdom in 1434. One account of its discovery tells that lightning struck a pagoda in a temple in Chiang Rai, after which, something became visible beneath the stucco. The Buddha was dug out, and the people believed the figurine to be made of emerald, hence its name. King Sam Fang Kaen of Lannathai wanted it in his capital, Chiang Mai, but the elephant carrying it insisted, on three separate occasions, on going instead to Lampang. This was taken as a divine sign and the Emerald Buddha stayed in Lampang until 1468, when it was finally moved to Chiang Mai, where it was kept at Wat Chedi Luang.

The Emerald Buddha remained in Chiang Mai until 1552, when it was taken to Luang Prabang, then the capital of the Lao kingdom of Lan Xang. Some years earlier, the crown prince of Lan Xang, Setthathirath, had been invited to occupy the vacant throne of Lannathai. However, Prince Setthathirath also became king of Lan Xang when his father, Photisarath, died. He returned home, taking the revered Buddha figure with him. In 1564, King Setthathirath moved it to his new capital at Vientiane.

In 1779, the Thai General Chao Phraya Chakri put down an insurrection, captured Vientiane and returned the Emerald Buddha to Siam, taking it with him to Thonburi. After he became King Rama I of Thailand, he moved the Emerald Buddha with great ceremony to its current home in Wat Phra Kaew on 22 March 1784. It is now kept in the main building of the temple, the Ubosoth."

So then the Chiang Saen style must come from India.

Interesting story. Maybe it is more than two Emerald Buddhas? The one in the Royal Palace (Chiang Saen style), the copy in Chiang Rai and then the one created in India 43 BC?

Edited November 29, 2011 by svenivan

[sceadugenga]

That's what I call getting lost, managing to hit Cambodia travelling from Ceylon/Sri Lanka to Burma.

But then maybe the map was different in those days... did the Khmer Empire ever stretch to the Andaman Sea?

[Limbo]

Interesting story. Maybe it is more than two Emerald Buddhas? The one in the Royal Palace (Chiang Saen style), the copy in Chiang Rai and then the one created in India 43 BC?

Interesting hypothesis, but in that case the one that supposedly would have been created

in India might probably be as difficult to find as the Holy Grail or the footprints of

Romulus and Remus in Rome for that matter.

As it is a legendary one, also according to its reference in Wikipedia.

Anyhow, a visit to Wat Phra Keaw (or Kaeo) is highly recommended to every visitor of Chiang Rai.

It is a sacred place, housing a blessed replica of what might be the most important Buddha image

of Thailand. Its original holds a status compared to the Palladium in ancient mythology.

It is on these temple grounds where history touches the present. This temple has not only always

been a center of spiritual research, but also for the study of old, among others Lanna, religious scripts.

The little museum with a well balanced and evocatively presented collection of related artefacts completes

the experience.

When you are interested in local culture and history and you happen to visit this oldest part of the town

Chiang Rai, I would recommend to walk up the small lane next to the right side temple wall and pay a visit

to one of the oldest temples of Chiang Rai, the Wat Muang. More than two hundred meters it will not be.

There, standing in front of the statue of the King that founded Chiang Rai on this very same hill, time

might stand still for a while.

When you are in this neighbourhood, why not pay a short visit to a historical building of more present

times and cross the street to have a closer look at the old wing of the Overbrook hospital. This building

is about hundred years old but it has the power to surprise by its soberness and functionality. It is, in

its simpleness, of an uncompromising beauty. And it breathes history, also the history of foreigners in

this town. The name of Dr. Briggs has to be mentioned within this context.

Please see also:

Limbo