International School Jobs After Pgce?

[aridion]

I am currently in the UK doing my PGCE primary. I I don't know if there will be enough available teaching positions for next year in the UK. Thus I am thinking about returning to Thailand. To be honest, even if I did get a job in the UK, I may still return to Thailand. I miss it.

Does anyone on here have any ideas of my chances of getting a decent position e.g. salary etc. Has anyone returned after completing a PGCE? Does anyone know of any schools that may be worth a try?

With thanks,

Aridion.

[Scott]

You will, of course, have no trouble in finding a teaching job with a teaching qualification. Hopefully, some of our posters who are more knowledgeable about the international school situation will be able to give you more specific guidance.

Best of luck.

[KKvampire]

30-35 k Bht a month. and you better get here soon , because school terms are starting late in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

[aidenai]

If you have your PGCE you can work at any school in Thailand. Government, private or international. It's assumed that with a PGCE you're eligible for the teacher license provided by the Teachers' Council of Thailand, provide you've done the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course. The wage bracket will be 30-45 k.

When you have your Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) you might get hired by a British educational institution with a school in Thailand. The earnings will be around 110,000 THB.

[culicine]

You will almost certainly need experience in a British school or at least one with a British curriculum, if you want to get into one of the top tier schools here. I have qualifications from Australia but still cannot get an interview at either top / second tier schools, even though I've been in Thailand 11 years and taught an an English program in a Thai school (which has a curriculum mostly similar to the British one anyway, in mathematics). It seems interviewers don't care too much about experience with Thai culture (or teaching Thai students), but are more interested in whether you can implement their curriculum.

So do a two year stint in a British school if at all possible. Your opportunities will be much greater.

[aridion]

30-35 k Bht a month. and you better get here soon , because school terms are starting late in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

You must be joking. I was on 45,000 even before I had a PGCE. I intend on finishing my PGCE, then return to Los.

[aridion]

Thanks for all the pointers. However I was more thinking that with a PGCE i could earn around the 70,000 mark at a second tier international. Not so sure if this is true or not.

Anyone have done anything like this?

[culicine]

Thanks for all the pointers. However I was more thinking that with a PGCE i could earn around the 70,000 mark at a second tier international. Not so sure if this is true or not.

Anyone have done anything like this?

Yes that's possible. Good english programs in Thai schools will pay 50-70K, so 70K in a mid tier is possible (but they often pay lower too). Just check the teaching load though - I'm on 22 periods x 50 mins but get paid for extra periods. What's a typical British school? 30 periods a week? For the better jobs, pick them up in the UK at a Job fair and get hired on an expat package (includes flights, accomodation, etc). Don't come here and look for a job, as you will lose benefits.

[ivan96822]

Thanks for all the pointers. However I was more thinking that with a PGCE i could earn around the 70,000 mark at a second tier international. Not so sure if this is true or not.

Anyone have done anything like this?

Yes that's possible. Good english programs in Thai schools will pay 50-70K, so 70K in a mid tier is possible (but they often pay lower too). Just check the teaching load though - I'm on 22 periods x 50 mins but get paid for extra periods. What's a typical British school? 30 periods a week? For the better jobs, pick them up in the UK at a Job fair and get hired on an expat package (includes flights, accomodation, etc). Don't come here and look for a job, as you will lose benefits.

Very interesting forum, and as I have expressed an interest in teaching in Thailand, I need to get a bit of feedback of my own.

I have a teaching credential from the state of Hawaii, and a Master's Degree in Education. I also teach British literature to seniors at an American high school. Could I expect 50-70K Baht per month with these qualifications?

[ivan96822]

30-35 k Bht a month. and you better get here soon , because school terms are starting late in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

You must be joking. I was on 45,000 even before I had a PGCE. I intend on finishing my PGCE, then return to Los.

Aridion, 45,000 Thai baht a month? A week? Every two weeks? Please clarify.

Good man for pursuing your education and having the vision to make it back to LOS. Your input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Firelily]

in Thailand, people are paid by the month. I think you have been offered this info at least twice so far in your various threads.....

[aridion]

30-35 k Bht a month. and you better get here soon , because school terms are starting late in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

You must be joking. I was on 45,000 even before I had a PGCE. I intend on finishing my PGCE, then return to Los.

Aridion, 45,000 Thai baht a month? A week? Every two weeks? Please clarify.

Good man for pursuing your education and having the vision to make it back to LOS. Your input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Of course a month. I was replying to your post that said I could get 30,000 - 35,000 baht a month with my PGCE. Misleading.

[aridion]

Thanks for all the pointers. However I was more thinking that with a PGCE i could earn around the 70,000 mark at a second tier international. Not so sure if this is true or not.

Anyone have done anything like this?

Yes that's possible. Good english programs in Thai schools will pay 50-70K, so 70K in a mid tier is possible (but they often pay lower too). Just check the teaching load though - I'm on 22 periods x 50 mins but get paid for extra periods. What's a typical British school? 30 periods a week? For the better jobs, pick them up in the UK at a Job fair and get hired on an expat package (includes flights, accomodation, etc). Don't come here and look for a job, as you will lose benefits.

Thanks for the info. Culicine. I know that the better jobs are to be got at job fairs in the UK, however they are very competitive. I may wait around for 2 years in the UK and then apply through one of these job fairs only to be up against 100 other teachers for the same position. So I hear.

[aussiebebe]

Thanks for all the pointers. However I was more thinking that with a PGCE i could earn around the 70,000 mark at a second tier international. Not so sure if this is true or not.

Anyone have done anything like this?

Yes that's possible. Good english programs in Thai schools will pay 50-70K, so 70K in a mid tier is possible (but they often pay lower too). Just check the teaching load though - I'm on 22 periods x 50 mins but get paid for extra periods. What's a typical British school? 30 periods a week? For the better jobs, pick them up in the UK at a Job fair and get hired on an expat package (includes flights, accomodation, etc). Don't come here and look for a job, as you will lose benefits.

Thanks for the info. Culicine. I know that the better jobs are to be got at job fairs in the UK, however they are very competitive. I may wait around for 2 years in the UK and then apply through one of these job fairs only to be up against 100 other teachers for the same position. So I hear.

That's a great idea, in my opinion. The top schools will want to see at least 2-3 years in a British school on your CV - don't even dream of returning to LOS without landing a job and completing your induction year. You can join a company like 'Search Associates', lots of Brits and a few Kiwis I know have mentioned this one, but there are many more such organisations; you'll get an invite to a jobs fair and lots of information about working conditions and remuneration/benefits. You can see many top schools like Patana attend such fairs and openly display this information; you'll also see other jobs in different countries and be able to get a feel for whats on offer. Looking at the packages offered by certain schools in Saudi Arabia, for example, where few people aspire to live or work, will make you gulp down an ice cube when compared with those in Thailand...

[Scott]

One post deleted. Please keep your posts relevant to the topic.

[aridion]

aussiebebe, thank you for the info. I have heard about the deal teachers can get in the ME. It would certainly be worthwhile for a year or 2 to bulk up your bank account.

I also know that a few years experience in the UK is the way to go to have a shot at the top international school. However, I also know that even with 2 or 3 years experience in the UK it is still very difficult to get into these schools. I have been told that at some schools like Harrow and Pattana there may up to 300 applicants for the 1 job.

That is why I am thinking of returning to Thailand and find a job in the 70,000 baht a month range. Could make another 10 - 20,000 if i did some privates.

Edited November 26, 2011 by aridion

[ivan96822]

30-35 k Bht a month. and you better get here soon , because school terms are starting late in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

You must be joking. I was on 45,000 even before I had a PGCE. I intend on finishing my PGCE, then return to Los.

Aridion, 45,000 Thai baht a month? A week? Every two weeks? Please clarify.

Good man for pursuing your education and having the vision to make it back to LOS. Your input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Of course a month. I was replying to your post that said I could get 30,000 - 35,000 baht a month with my PGCE. Misleading.

It was another forum member who said you could earn that amount. Not me.

[mezzy]

Thanks for all the pointers. However I was more thinking that with a PGCE i could earn around the 70,000 mark at a second tier international. Not so sure if this is true or not.

Anyone have done anything like this?

Yes that's possible. Good english programs in Thai schools will pay 50-70K, so 70K in a mid tier is possible (but they often pay lower too). Just check the teaching load though - I'm on 22 periods x 50 mins but get paid for extra periods. What's a typical British school? 30 periods a week? For the better jobs, pick them up in the UK at a Job fair and get hired on an expat package (includes flights, accomodation, etc). Don't come here and look for a job, as you will lose benefits.

Very interesting forum, and as I have expressed an interest in teaching in Thailand, I need to get a bit of feedback of my own.

I have a teaching credential from the state of Hawaii, and a Master's Degree in Education. I also teach British literature to seniors at an American high school. Could I expect 50-70K Baht per month with these qualifications?

Depending also on how much teaching experience you have you could get more, but to get the good package you really need to attend a Job Fair. CIS runs one in late January in London, Search Associates also does too they have many all over the world they do have some conditions if you have less than five years experience, of which I have no idea because when I started working overseas I already had 6 years.

Your position on the payscale can take into account whether you have a Masters and how many years you've been teaching, but some British schools don't appear to bump you up the scale for having a Masters, the American ones certainly do.

So I am a teacher with 11 years experience and currently get around 116,000 baht a month, before tax of course. But all my of teaching experience has been with a teaching degree, they don't normally take into account ESL teaching when calculating where you sit on a payscale.

To the OP get a couple of years teaching experience in either the UK or MIddle East, attend a Job Fair to get into a Middle Eastern school, or apply directly to schools, but be very careful because some can be very dodgy. The international market is not very keen on inexperienced teachers, even if you have ESL experience. The competition to get into international schools in Thailand is pretty tough, I am a Humanities teacher around 90 people applied for the job that I got.

Your other option is to go to China, again use Job Fairs, do not even consider the Chinese 'private schools', but there are heaps of international schools in China and they pay you very very well, better than I am getting here in Thailand and I am at what would be considered a top tier school. China is a great place to get the experience.

When applying for schools check out International Schools Review, it costs $US25 a year and will give you lots of information on heaps of international schools, reviewed by teachers working there. If the school does not appear on their lists, I would be cautious as to whether it really is an international school in the first place.

Applying directly to schools and being in the country can also mean you don't get the benefits that other teachers do, that is why some schools could be keen, because you are cheaper for them, but really they are using you. At my school the starting salary for a teacher per month is 80,0000 baht, so I assume many schools are similar. But you are much better off getting some experience first. Like I said go to China, I lived there for five years and I still miss it.

[aridion]

Depending also on how much teaching experience you have you could get more, but to get the good package you really need to attend a Job Fair. CIS runs one in late January in London, Search Associates also does too they have many all over the world they do have some conditions if you have less than five years experience, of which I have no idea because when I started working overseas I already had 6 years.

Your position on the payscale can take into account whether you have a Masters and how many years you've been teaching, but some British schools don't appear to bump you up the scale for having a Masters, the American ones certainly do.

So I am a teacher with 11 years experience and currently get around 116,000 baht a month, before tax of course. But all my of teaching experience has been with a teaching degree, they don't normally take into account ESL teaching when calculating where you sit on a payscale.

To the OP get a couple of years teaching experience in either the UK or MIddle East, attend a Job Fair to get into a Middle Eastern school, or apply directly to schools, but be very careful because some can be very dodgy. The international market is not very keen on inexperienced teachers, even if you have ESL experience. The competition to get into international schools in Thailand is pretty tough, I am a Humanities teacher around 90 people applied for the job that I got.

Your other option is to go to China, again use Job Fairs, do not even consider the Chinese 'private schools', but there are heaps of international schools in China and they pay you very very well, better than I am getting here in Thailand and I am at what would be considered a top tier school. China is a great place to get the experience.

When applying for schools check out International Schools Review, it costs $US25 a year and will give you lots of information on heaps of international schools, reviewed by teachers working there. If the school does not appear on their lists, I would be cautious as to whether it really is an international school in the first place.

Applying directly to schools and being in the country can also mean you don't get the benefits that other teachers do, that is why some schools could be keen, because you are cheaper for them, but really they are using you. At my school the starting salary for a teacher per month is 80,0000 baht, so I assume many schools are similar. But you are much better off getting some experience first. Like I said go to China, I lived there for five years and I still miss it.

Thank you so much for your helpful and detailed response.

Just a few questions.

Would a few years in the Middle East directly after my PGCE enable me to apply to these top tier schools. Or would I still need a few years in the UK?

Could i get a decent job at a Chinese international school just after my PGCE, or would I have to also do a few UK years?

Aridion.

[paully]

I am thinking of returning to Thailand and find a job in the 70,000 baht a month range. Could make another 10 - 20,000 if i did some privates.

Arid, bite the bullet and concentrate on gaining UK teaching experience after your PGCE before heading abroad. Yes, you could try for a 60-70K baht job at a 'lesser' international school, but a position in these isn't guaranteed armed with only a PGCE and frankly you'd be wasted at those sorts of schools. Read about them on the internet. As for adding privates on top of that, who wants to work themselves into the ground?

With the greatest possible respect to you, coming from someone now in their 6th year of post-PGCE teaching in the UK, you're still in your first term. You ain't learned nuthin' yet. That's why the top international schools are willing to pay for the right experience. And that's not from only the 'lesser' Thai international schools.

Edited November 30, 2011 by paully

[mezzy]

Paully is correct, get some time in the UK, it is very hard to get a job internationally if you haven't even finished your PGCE. Recruitment season is about to begin, the first job fairs start in January, in Sydney, then Bangkok, London, Cambridge (USA). The companies all follow each other around.

You probably could get a job in the Middle East, but it will be a horrible school with horrible students and administrative staff, although the money would be pretty good, but ME schools are notorious for night runners (teachers who pack their bags and leave with no notice).

There might be a few in China who would be interested, but I wouldn't risk it cos there are plenty of crappy ones there too. You do have to be careful and make sure they have credentials, but even then they can use you. There are even some terrible international schools in Europe. Like I said before check out International Schools Review, they also have a help section where you can get advice from lots of international educators.

I taught in Australia for six years before heading overseas and I really think that it better prepared me for teaching overseas.

The other thing to realise too that if you are doing privates after school as a first year teacher you will be exhausted. The first year or two of teaching is exhausting, if you take the job seriously of course. I have had friends who had done TESL teaching overseas before doing a teaching degree and they couldn't believe how tired they were considering they had been teaching before.

[ivan96822]

Paully is correct, get some time in the UK, it is very hard to get a job internationally if you haven't even finished your PGCE. Recruitment season is about to begin, the first job fairs start in January, in Sydney, then Bangkok, London, Cambridge (USA). The companies all follow each other around.

You probably could get a job in the Middle East, but it will be a horrible school with horrible students and administrative staff, although the money would be pretty good, but ME schools are notorious for night runners (teachers who pack their bags and leave with no notice).

There might be a few in China who would be interested, but I wouldn't risk it cos there are plenty of crappy ones there too. You do have to be careful and make sure they have credentials, but even then they can use you. There are even some terrible international schools in Europe. Like I said before check out International Schools Review, they also have a help section where you can get advice from lots of international educators.

I taught in Australia for six years before heading overseas and I really think that it better prepared me for teaching overseas.

The other thing to realise too that if you are doing privates after school as a first year teacher you will be exhausted. The first year or two of teaching is exhausting, if you take the job seriously of course. I have had friends who had done TESL teaching overseas before doing a teaching degree and they couldn't believe how tired they were considering they had been teaching before.

Here are my personal qualifications: I have a teaching credential from the state of Hawaii, and a Master's Degree in Education. I also teach British literature to seniors at an American high school. Could I expect 50-70K Baht per month with these qualifications?

I know that I have floated this information in the past, and I need no forum members poking in and commenting about doing such. In my opinion, those types should mind their own business. What is the harm of getting information from multiple/credible sources? I am only looking out for the best information available, as I have major decisions to consider.

Let me know, Mezzy. Thank you.

[Scott]

The salary is much more dependent on the school than on the qualifications. There are variances in the salary within schools for certain degrees, but by and large, the school has a pay scale. The other factor is the location of the school. The urban areas, Bangkok in particular, usually pay more.

Where I work, you would start at maybe 38,000 baht per month. It would depend more on the number of years you have been teaching.

At some gov't schools you might earn 40,000--I will let other posters address that issue. I do know a person with a Ph.D. who started at a gov't school in the High School and he started at 40,000 baht per month.

The unaffiliated international schools, i.e. those that are tied to a curriculum of a foreign country, might start you at 50,000++ baht per month--again other posters might be able to advise you on this.

It is the true international schools with affiliation to a particular country and curriculum that is approved in the home country that pay the big salary. In my limited experience, they seldom hire inside the assigned country. Recruitment is handled in the home country.

So, could you get 50-70,000 baht a month? Probably. Is it likely? No. If you come to Thailand and have the resources to wait around for the right job in the right school, you will probably get that, however, it may take a while and your lost wages will take a long time to make up the difference.

I won't get into the visa situation and the cost of visa runs as you wait. But,then again, you might get lucky. I once won 2,000 baht on the lottery.

[aridion]

Thanks for the great Info. Paully and Mezzy. It does seem that a few years experience in the UK goes a long way.

However, even after a few years teahcing in England, is it still difficult to get into the top international schools. I have heard that there are loads of applications for each position and it is highly competitive.

[paully]

still difficult to get into the top international schools. I have heard that there are loads of applications for each position and it is highly competitive.

Yes, that certainly seems to be true - there's no guaranteed way around it, unless you happen to know the 'right' contacts. I only wish that I did..

[mezzy]

still difficult to get into the top international schools. I have heard that there are loads of applications for each position and it is highly competitive.

Yes, that certainly seems to be true - there's no guaranteed way around it, unless you happen to know the 'right' contacts. I only wish that I did..

As I said before the job I got had 90 applicants, I was very lucky and I did not know anybody at the school I just had plenty of experience, lots to offer in terms of EXTRA Curricular activities and excellent references. The extra curricular aspect is really important too, I forgot to add that, you really need to be able to sell yourself as more than just a classroom teacher. All decent international schools will ask you what else you can do besides teach.

The irony for me getting the position I did was that I had applied to another school here in Phuket and didn't even get an interview because I did not have any MYP experience. The school I work at now said they weren't fussed because I was Australian and had therefore being teaching basically that anyway.

In answer to Ivan---- you really should be able to get a job at a decent international school paying more than that. Are you an AP teacher? If so I would even think about other places in Asia too because AP is becoming more popular and they really really want experienced AP teachers.

The problem is here that there are lots of schools who call themselves 'international schools' and really do nothing that actually validates that label. Always look for schools that are accredited through organisations like WASC, CIS, NEASC, EARCOS and IB World Schools, the first three in particular are good because there is a three year process to get accredited through them.

I have to add that in Asia and the Middle East you should get paid well enough to be able to live comfortably, save a bit and be able to have money to travel. Good schools also offer proper international health insurance, housing or housing allowance, tuition for your children, a ticket home per contract and initial shipping allowance, the really nice ones give you tickets for your dependants and settling in allowance.

Also be wary of the Local Hire contract. I met someone at a job fair last year working for a very good international school in Bangkok, their spouse had a job in Bangkok too, they were on a local contract, the contract would end at the last day of school, then the next school the school would hire them again just before school started again, therefore avoiding having to pay them for the holiday (about 6-8 weeks). This school had more than enough money to be able to afford to pay them over the summer break.

Good luck by the way guys!

[Phatcharanan]

organisations like WASC, CIS, NEASC, EARCOS and IB World Schools, the first three in particular are good because there is a three year process to get accredited through them.

Although some schools have managed it in just over two years..........if their self-study phase is nailed on.