Thai Police To Question Ex-Pm Over Protest Deaths

[anterian]

Military governments always use lethal force against their civilian opposition, Pinochet did in Argentina, Sadaam in Iraq, Gaddafi in Libya and currently Assad in Syria.

So the killings in Bangkok simply demonstrated that the Abhisit government was a military proxy, which we knew anyway.

So PPP was a military government too?

*sigh*

i also sigh at the lack of balance in these threads, that all Reds are evil, or at best ignorant dupes. Whereas the PAD are righteous, peaceful citizens asserting their rights.

[hyperdimension]

Have the police also questioned the people in these video excerpts of Thaksin and other red shirt leaders?:

Source:

A lot of other information and evidence of the events are shown in these videos:

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 1)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 2)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (1/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (2/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (3/3)

nice summary, thanks.

so the gov't and the military blamed the red shirts for all the violence.

What didn't we know before??

Visual evidence. Can you provide any videos (of duration 30 minutes or more) that show in detail evidence against the military and Abhisit and his government?

[tlansford]

nice summary, thanks.

so the gov't and the military blamed the red shirts for all the violence.

What didn't we know before??

Visual evidence. Can you provide any videos (of duration 30 minutes or more) that show in detail evidence against the military and Abhisit and his government?

misleading visual evidence at times, too. Look at all those weapons (the same shots over and over again for emphasis...) - maybe the military forgot, but they certainly did not mention in this report where some of those weapons came from... The following was on April 10th :

Protesters seized a large amount of military equipment left behind by retreating troops, including nine M-16 assault rifles, 25 Tavor TAR-21 assault rifles, six .50 caliber anti-aircraft guns, 116 riot shields, 105 batons and 80 suits of body armour. Troops also abandoned six personnel carriers and three high-mobility multi-purpose vehicles. Ammunition also went missing, including 580 rubber bullet rounds, 600 .50 caliber anti-aircraft rounds, and 8,182 5.56 mm M-16 rifle rounds

As stated before, I do not believe in governments using lethal force against their own citizens, period. It is not about the Red Shirts, it is about the gov't. I would say the same if it had been the PAD protesting. I would say the same if it were the PTP. Look what happened when the army used force on an ever increasing level. The situation spiraled out of control, and they even provided some serious weapons to the red shirts themselves due to it.

Anyone who knows anything about video knows that editing is everything. Watch the videos again and pay attention to the cuts. Keep an open mind and you'll see interesting cuts and repetitive views. The videos were edited to produce a specific emotion, and it works.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

Anyone who knows anything about video knows that editing is everything. Watch the videos again and pay attention to the cuts. Keep an open mind and you'll see interesting cuts and repetitive views. The videos were edited to produce a specific emotion, and it works.

Yep, you're right here. The 2009 video of k. Abhisit allegedly saying 'kill me some red-shirts' is a really good example. Still waiting for some examples to be provided by k. Jatuporn. Over the last year he promised a few, but we're still waiting. Maybe soon now we get some 'clear evidence' courtesy of Dept. PM Chalerm

[nong38]

This will aid reconcilliation! Luckily the ex PM will be to clever for boys in brown and not give them any chance of a charge. One of Thailands good men.

[geriatrickid]

Visual evidence. Can you provide any videos (of duration 30 minutes or more) that show in detail evidence against the military and Abhisit and his government?

Are you serious? Don't you recall the multiple reports detailing human rights improprieties? Thailand's National Human Rights Commission subcommittee on civil and political rights found that Red shirt detainees were tortured, forced to confess to crimes and jailed without any chance to defend themselves. These were not tofu eating hand wringing lefties, but respected members of the community that came to that conclusion.

Is this acceptable behaviour, where a passive non combative detainee gets his head stomped?

What do you make of this BBC report showing live fire against unarmed civilians?

Do we really need to play dueling examples?

[lannarebirth]

so the gov't and the military blamed the red shirts for all the violence.

What didn't we know before??

Visual evidence. Can you provide any videos (of duration 30 minutes or more) that show in detail evidence against the military and Abhisit and his government?

misleading visual evidence at times, too. Look at all those weapons (the same shots over and over again for emphasis...) - maybe the military forgot, but they certainly did not mention in this report where some of those weapons came from... The following was on April 10th :

Protesters seized a large amount of military equipment left behind by retreating troops, including nine M-16 assault rifles, 25 Tavor TAR-21 assault rifles, six .50 caliber anti-aircraft guns, 116 riot shields, 105 batons and 80 suits of body armour. Troops also abandoned six personnel carriers and three high-mobility multi-purpose vehicles. Ammunition also went missing, including 580 rubber bullet rounds, 600 .50 caliber anti-aircraft rounds, and 8,182 5.56 mm M-16 rifle rounds

As stated before, I do not believe in governments using lethal force against their own citizens, period. It is not about the Red Shirts, it is about the gov't. I would say the same if it had been the PAD protesting. I would say the same if it were the PTP. Look what happened when the army used force on an ever increasing level. The situation spiraled out of control, and they even provided some serious weapons to the red shirts themselves due to it.

Anyone who knows anything about video knows that editing is everything. Watch the videos again and pay attention to the cuts. Keep an open mind and you'll see interesting cuts and repetitive views. The videos were edited to produce a specific emotion, and it works.

Why on earth would government forces be in retreat if all their weapons are filled with live rounds and they're only squaring off against a small group of unarmed protesters? Imean to say, the video shows protesters getting shot from behind, men wearing black clothes carrying automatic weapons amongst their ranks (and later on Red Shirt stage) and grenades being launched. But as we all know that stuff was merely edited in. Probably came from some big sound stage on a movie lot. Still, I'm wondering why the governments greatest fighting force, the Army would run. Weird, huh?

\

[hyperdimension]

Are you serious? Don't you recall the multiple reports detailing human rights improprieties?

Yes, but by the militant protesters / rioters / terrorists.

Thailand's National Human Rights Commission subcommittee on civil and political rights found that Red shirt detainees were tortured, forced to confess to crimes and jailed without any chance to defend themselves. These were not tofu eating hand wringing lefties, but respected members of the community that came to that conclusion.

The past few posts were about Visual evidence. There are plenty of written anectodal evidence around and has been discussed at length in the past.

Is this acceptable behaviour, where a passive non combative detainee gets his head stomped?

How do we know that he wasn't violently resisting just before that cut? We have no idea what he was doing and why he was beign detained. Was he completely unarmed and just walking by intending to buy some food to take back to his apartment? Or was he high on methamphetamine and shooting at the soldiers who managed to confiscate his weapons? That clip doesn't tell us much. I doubt that his head being stomped just once caused permanent injury.

What do you make of this BBC report showing live fire against unarmed civilians?

The narrator claims that a guy was shot in the leg, however it is not at all clear, even after the replay. We don't even know which guy he is talking about, as there are many guys about. blood was nowhere to be seen. Were rubber bullets being used? tlansford's comment about video editing and cuts apply with both of these videos that you have presented.

[hyperdimension]

Do we really need to play dueling examples?

I truly would like to see visual evidence that backs up the claims of the red shirts, particularly evidence that implicates Abhisit and Suthep and the Democrat-led government in atrocities. The government did a good job with those videos that I provided links to earlier, so for balance, let's see what the red shirts have done.

[phiphidon]

begin removed ...

Anyone who knows anything about video knows that editing is everything. Watch the videos again and pay attention to the cuts. Keep an open mind and you'll see interesting cuts and repetitive views. The videos were edited to produce a specific emotion, and it works.

Yep, you're right here. The 2009 video of k. Abhisit allegedly saying 'kill me some red-shirts' is a really good example. Still waiting for some examples to be provided by k. Jatuporn. Over the last year he promised a few, but we're still waiting. Maybe soon now we get some 'clear evidence' courtesy of Dept. PM Chalerm

Well the Judges vids were quite revealing (the latter ones not the old one with Prem which was an obviously not taken at the same time as the others) but it seems as though the messenger was castigated for that, not the parties involved. Though I'm not even sure about the messenger being thrown before the courts when he got back from his "holiday" - maybe one of those let's forget about it and hope everybody else does thai moments (remember the 9 people killed in the mini bus crash and the teen girl being tried at court, No...............? precisely...........)

Edited December 2, 2011 by phiphidon

[lannarebirth]

begin removed ...

Anyone who knows anything about video knows that editing is everything. Watch the videos again and pay attention to the cuts. Keep an open mind and you'll see interesting cuts and repetitive views. The videos were edited to produce a specific emotion, and it works.

Yep, you're right here. The 2009 video of k. Abhisit allegedly saying 'kill me some red-shirts' is a really good example. Still waiting for some examples to be provided by k. Jatuporn. Over the last year he promised a few, but we're still waiting. Maybe soon now we get some 'clear evidence' courtesy of Dept. PM Chalerm

Well the Judges vids were quite revealing (the latter ones not the old one with Prem which was an obviously not taken at the same time as the others) but it seems as though the messenger was castigated for that, not the parties involved. Though I'm not even sure about the messenger being thrown before the courts when he got back from his "holiday" - maybe one of those let's forget about it and hope everybody else does thai moments (remember the 9 people killed in the mini bus crash and the teen girl being tried at court, No...............? precisely...........)

I remember that case very well and I await furthur reports of it. Like you, I am not hopeful that justice will be served.

[Buchholz]

begin removed ...

Anyone who knows anything about video knows that editing is everything. Watch the videos again and pay attention to the cuts. Keep an open mind and you'll see interesting cuts and repetitive views. The videos were edited to produce a specific emotion, and it works.

Yep, you're right here. The 2009 video of k. Abhisit allegedly saying 'kill me some red-shirts' is a really good example. Still waiting for some examples to be provided by k. Jatuporn. Over the last year he promised a few, but we're still waiting. Maybe soon now we get some 'clear evidence' courtesy of Dept. PM Chalerm

Well the Judges vids were quite revealing (the latter ones not the old one with Prem which was an obviously not taken at the same time as the others) but it seems as though the messenger was castigated for that, not the parties involved.

It worked out ok for Pasit, because the messenger was rewarded for his efforts with a place in Yingluck's government, despite having no background for his selected advisory position.

The Cabinet also approved reshuffles at the Tourism and Sports, Transport and Agriculture ministries, besides promoting Chattra-phong Chattrakhon to be the new National Intelligence Agency Director-General. It also agreed on a number of political appointees. Among them is Pasit Sakdanarong, former secretary to the Constitution Court who was dismissed for involvement in a scandal that tarnished the judiciary's public image. He is being made an Adviser to the Public Health Ministry

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=498010&view=findpost&p=4695488

Edited December 2, 2011 by Buchholz

[webfact]

Ex-PM Abhisit postpones testimony to police on crackdown against alleged Red Shirts last year; says more time needed to prepare docs /MCOT

[webfact]

Former PM Abhisit postpones testimony to police on crackdown against Red Shirts

BANGKOK, Dec 2 - Opposition Democrat party leader and former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Friday postponed his testimony to police on his government’s crackdown against Red Shirt protesters during April-May last year, saying he needed more time to prepare documents.

Speaking to reporters before leaving for Sukhothai province, 400 km north of the capital, Mr Abhisit said he had only just received a letter from the Metropolitan Police Bureau asking him to testify, but said he had not read it yet, and that he was not aware whether he had to testify with former deputy premier Suthep Thaugsuban.

Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, Democrat party spokesman, said the party was assigned to issue a letter to the police bureau, stating that Mr Abhisit would appear in mid-December.

According to the spokesman, the party leader was given the letter on short notice last night and that he had no time to prepare his arguments. Furthermore, Mr Abhisit had a scheduled engagement in Sukhothai early today to participate in rehabilitation activities for flood-affected temples and schools.

In April and May last year, over 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed in street clashes between the red-clad demonstrators and soldiers.

Troops dispersed thousands of Red Shirt protesters who had been camped at Khok Wua intersection on Ratchadamnoen Avenue and in the capital's premier shopping and hotel district of Ratchaprasong for weeks. The anti-government protest leaders surrendered, enraging followers who used grenades and set fire to landmark buildings including Thailand’s largest luxury shopping mall and the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET). (MCOT Online News)

-- TNA 2011-12-02

[webfact]

Abhisit, Suthep Postpone Giving Testimonies over Probe into 16 Red-shirt Deaths

Police say former Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and former Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban have requested a postponement of their testimonies for the deaths of 16 red-shirt members.

Deputy Commander of the Metropolitan Police Division 6 Police Colonel Suebsak Phansura said Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and Democrat MP for Surat Thani, Suthep Thaugsuban requested a delay for their testimonies in the investigation of 16 red-shirt protest deaths, saying they have important appointments on the scheduled court date.

However, Suebsak said investigators will need them to testify before December 17, the day which the investigation will be completed.

Investigators earlier asked the Democrats to testify upon request from the public prosecutor, after some of the witnesses alleged that the former PM and the former deputy PM exercised their power under the State of Emergency, giving orders to officials to shoot down red-shirt protesters.

There were also some inconsistencies in witnesses' accounts about where the killing allegedly took place on April 10, 2010.

Suebsak explained that noting this is to ensure correctness and fairness in the investigation.

-- Tan Network 2011-12-02

[metisdead]

A post has been removed due to possible violation of copyright and non compliance of fair use. It is generally accepted, but not written into law, that quoting the first two or three sentences of an article and giving a link to the source is considered “fair use” and not a violation of copyright.

[bitterbatter]

I have to take the opposing viewpoint on this one. The government let the protest swell and dig in to a ridiculous degree. They should have taken strong action before the barriers and barbed wire went into place.

Most importantly, when the redshirts got greedy with demands and decided to want more, then the use of non-lethal tactics should have been employed. LRAD is a very powerful directional sound machine that would have been very easy to deploy and made the political speaking impossbile and people would not have been able to stay in this mentally piercing environment.... but instead the stupidest of tactics was employed- set the barriers on fire until the smoke makes it impossible to see, then they shot live ammunition into the black cloud. It is really disgusting that this is how they handled this situation. Press, and innocent bystanders were shot, and terror ruled that day. It was simply wrong!

[rubl]

I have to take the opposing viewpoint on this one. The government let the protest swell and dig in to a ridiculous degree. They should have taken strong action before the barriers and barbed wire went into place.

... end removed

Lots of people also thought the then government was way too lenient with the protesters, apart from the police helping those protesters as well