The Social Security Fund, Recovering Your Money.

[tpthai2]

Situation:

Working for two Thai companies for the past 10 years. Both have now gone under.

Proper Social Security Fund payments were made during that time.

Question:

Are you able to recover that money? If so, what is the process?

TV members comments and knowledge greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[gregb]

What do you mean "recover the money?"

Are you saying that both companies withheld social security for 10 years, but neither company ever reported those to the government?

You can't recover social security if it has been fairly paid. It is like term life insurance. You have already received the benefits. There is no account with your name on it.

[Benjie]

Perhaps the OP refers to his pension rights.

[gregb]

Perhaps the OP refers to his pension rights.

The old age pension through social security is only payable in Thailand for those that can show contributions for a minimum of 180 months over their life, and only after the age of 55. If you don't work for at least 180 months then you never receive benefits from this particular scheme. Since the OP has only worked for 10 years, he does not qualify yet for a pension.

It is not even clear if non Thai citizens are eligible to collect this pension. I don't know anyone who is doing it.

Perhaps the OP can comment on exactly what money he thinks he can recover? Social security is a tax. You don't get it back once you've paid it.

Edit:

Actually it appears I may be wrong about this. Checking this site:

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/category.jsp?lang=th&cat=606

it does appear there are reduced benefits available for those working less than 15 years but with income within the last 5 years of their application after the age of 55. But one of the documents listed in the requirements is a copy of your ID card...a document that even a farang with PR can not provide.

Edited December 1, 2011 by gregb

[tpthai2]

Perhaps the OP refers to his pension rights.

The old age pension through social security is only payable in Thailand for those that can show contributions for a minimum of 180 months over their life, and only after the age of 55. If you don't work for at least 180 months then you never receive benefits from this particular scheme. Since the OP has only worked for 10 years, he does not qualify yet for a pension.

It is not even clear if non Thai citizens are eligible to collect this pension. I don't know anyone who is doing it.

Perhaps the OP can comment on exactly what money he thinks he can recover? Social security is a tax. You don't get it back once you've paid it.

Edit:

Actually it appears I may be wrong about this. Checking this site:

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/category.jsp?lang=th&cat=606

it does appear there are reduced benefits available for those working less than 15 years but with income within the last 5 years of their application after the age of 55. But one of the documents listed in the requirements is a copy of your ID card...a document that even a farang with PR can not provide.

Thank you very much, that is the information I searching for.

[tpthai2]

Perhaps the OP refers to his pension rights.

Yes, thank you, Pension rights.

[Tywais]

You can get it returned as a lump sum though. Done it myself.

[CWMcMurray]

Tywais...

So what did you do and who did you contact to get lump sum payout?

Are you a foreign national?

How many years working in Thailand?

When did you finish working?

How oldwhere you when you applied for refund of SS funds?

If willing to share, I am sure that many would be interested in learning from your experience.

[Tywais]

Tywais...

1. So what did you do and who did you contact to get lump sum payout?

2. Are you a foreign national?

3. How many years working in Thailand?

4. When did you finish working?

5. How oldwhere you when you applied for refund of SS funds?

If willing to share, I am sure that many would be interested in learning from your experience.

1. The secretary where I worked took me to the SSO (Social Security Office) to assist in the process. Believe most if not all the forms were in Thai so useful to have a Thai with you if your reading skills are not up to it. After filling out and signing the forms the check was ready in a few days. It was a while ago so the check may have been cut on the spot. Pretty painless actually if you have someone with you to be sure you understand what is going on. Suspect there was a letter from work to support the request.

2. Foreign national - yes (if USA counts)

3. Working for nearly 20 years.

4. Have not finished working but as a government employee no longer could work under the normal system due to mandatory retirement laws and went to annual contracts. That was 3+ years ago.

One thing I'm not sure of is if there is a minimum age to get the lump sum. They (SSO) can tell you quickly either in person or phone call.

[expatman]

Tywais...

1. So what did you do and who did you contact to get lump sum payout?

2. Are you a foreign national?

3. How many years working in Thailand?

4. When did you finish working?

5. How oldwhere you when you applied for refund of SS funds?

If willing to share, I am sure that many would be interested in learning from your experience.

1. The secretary where I worked took me to the SSO (Social Security Office) to assist in the process. Believe most if not all the forms were in Thai so useful to have a Thai with you if your reading skills are not up to it. After filling out and signing the forms the check was ready in a few days. It was a while ago so the check may have been cut on the spot. Pretty painless actually if you have someone with you to be sure you understand what is going on. Suspect there was a letter from work to support the request.

2. Foreign national - yes (if USA counts)

3. Working for nearly 20 years.

4. Have not finished working but as a government employee no longer could work under the normal system due to mandatory retirement laws and went to annual contracts. That was 3+ years ago.

One thing I'm not sure of is if there is a minimum age to get the lump sum. They (SSO) can tell you quickly either in person or phone call.

What kind of documents did you need to provide ? Are income tax statements sufficient ? Those I have, but I doubt whether I could get statements from all the companies I worked for except for the last.

Did you get back all the money you contributed ? That would be 750 baht / month or 9000 Baht per year worked ?

[Tywais]

What kind of documents did you need to provide ?

I was afraid you would ask that as I really don't remember. All the information is in their computer and I know I supplied no tax statements. Seemed only my passport, possibly work permit and the letter from work. Again, need to contact SSO to get the specifics.

Did you get back all the money you contributed ? That would be 750 baht / month or 9000 Baht per year worked ?

Got it all back which is my contributions plus matching contributions from work. Pretty hefty check I must say.

[expatman]

What kind of documents did you need to provide ?

I was afraid you would ask that as I really don't remember. All the information is in their computer and I know I supplied no tax statements. Seemed only my passport, possibly work permit and the letter from work. Again, need to contact SSO to get the specifics.

Did you get back all the money you contributed ? That would be 750 baht / month or 9000 Baht per year worked ?

Got it all back which is my contributions plus matching contributions from work. Pretty hefty check I must say.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to give this a try, could be a nice bonus !

One more thought : Does the refund count as taxable income ?

(Probably yes, since contributions were deductible from taxable income)

Edited December 2, 2011 by expatman

[SamMunich]

Actually, I have had to deal with the SSO earlier this year. First you have to understand, that the package of 5% of your income, but not more than 750 Baht/month is a contribution for several insurances.

You should have gotten a reddish card, that allows you to get treatment and medication at one hospital (out of a list of mostly state-run hospitals) of your choice. This card is normally valid for two years, but you can change the hospital once a year.

Another insurance covers work-related accidents and accidents on the way from or to work.

Another insurance of this package covers maternity leave.

Another insurance is for unemployment benefits, but there are some conditions to it, which I don't want to elaborate here.

And still another (out of 6 or 7) is the pensions fund. This entitles you to get 20% of your last income (based on the averagbe of the last 5 years), but not exceeding 3,000 Baht/month, if you paid in at least 180 months or 15 years. Every additional year adds a little over 1% to the amount, but I don't knwo, if the 3,000 Baht limit is the absolute top. Now as this part of the regulation was added only about 11 years ago, nobody qualifies for this yet, no Thai and no foreigner. Also to qualify you have to be at least 55 years old. And btw at 55 years or older, you don't qualify for unemployment benefits.

What the SSO now offers is, according to the law, a lump sum payment of the pension of 3% plus interest of the amount, that was taken from your contribution for the pension fund. With this 3%++ all your entitlements to pension payments are covered. So if you decide on this, you would have to work/contribute another 15 years to be eligible again for monthly pension payments.

The best advice is to go to your local SSO office and ask for their help. They are very friendly staff there, but if your Thai language knowledge isn't so good, you better take along a Thai friend of yours. Bring along the reddish card, which has your Social Securtiy Membership number,- and your passport. They don't check your visa, just your ID. Also your work-permit is of no interest to them.

And if you recently (last 3 months) quit work and SSO contribution (for any reason), you might want to apply for voluntary contributions according to Art. 39 of the SSO law. They give you a small blue booklet with all the information needed, but it is in Thai only, so if you can't read it, find somebody to explain the important points to you.

The SSO head office in Bangkok is located behind the Labor Department in Din Daeng, Soi Mit Maitree (?).

[expatman]

...

What the SSO now offers is, according to the law, a lump sum payment of the pension of 3% plus interest of the amount, that was taken from your contribution for the pension fund. With this 3%++ all your entitlements to pension payments are covered.

...

Thanks for the info, but I don't understand the calculation formula. Can you elaborate ?

[beano2274]

I pay the contributions by myself, works out at 432 Baht per month, you can only do this if you have paid contributions before for 1 year.

Am sure you do not have to pay for the full 15 years.

[SamMunich]

Re: How the formula is calculated ?

I dunno, but it is defined in the law governing the SSO, that those, who are too old to reach the 15 years of contribution will get 3% plus interest. In my case that was somewhere in the range of 100,000 Baht as a one-time-payment. If you go to the SSO office, they will calculate the exact amount for you. I also don't know the exact amount or percentage of the overall contribution (let's say the 750 Baht/month), that is going into the pension fund. Quite frankly, I wasn't interested in a lump-sum payment but instead pay the 432 Baht (plus bank charge) on the 15th of each month to keep my pension entitlement. This is the voluntary contribution according to art. 39 of the law, that I mentioned before.

However, if you pay voluntarily, your "income" for pension is then only 218 Baht (?), instead of the max. 15,000 Baht, that are the top level for SSO calculation (5% of 15,000 = 750 Baht/month). In this way I can get the 15 years of contribution full, but will - of course - not receive the max amount of 3,000 Baht a month upon retiring. Agreed, it isn't much, but why not take it, when you paid for it?

The lump-sum payment is only for those, who reach 55 years and haven't contributed the full 15 years.

IMHO the health insurance part is well worth the 432 Baht a month... Compare that to a private insurance! And the SSO health insurance will not throw you out, just because you turned 65 or 70 years... And BTW I think this will also qualify as a health insurance, if you should need one for a visa application.

Cheers,

SamMunich

[BrianCR]

From my own experience - I have worked here for many years and joined the Social Security system when it first started - on reaching 60 years of age I was refunded all of my monthly payments and then the monthly fee was reduced from 750 baht (max) per month to 420 (min) covering me for full medical benefits in a hospital of my choice for life! I also get payment refunds on the money that I am now paying and which I collect once a year. The only documents you require are your SS membership card and your passport (same documents as you used when previously visiting a hospital). For those who knock the Thai SS I should point out that it covers all medical costs (in and out patient) in a private hospital of your choice, a small yearly dental allowance and a full refund of monthly subscriptions on retirement. The only qualifications for joining are that you must be working (and holder of a valid work permit), you must be under sixty years of age and that your company must be a member of the social security system

[CWMcMurray]

thank you all for sharing your experience.... I still have many years of working in Thailand left to go, but interesting to learn

[TerryLH]

"The only qualifications for joining are that you must be working (and holder of a valid work permit),..."

Having a work permit isn't a requirement. At least it wasn't when I joined the system.

[SamMunich]

<br />... on reaching 60 years of age I was refunded all of my monthly payments and then the monthly fee was reduced from 750 baht (max) per month to 420 (min) covering me for full medical benefits in a hospital of my choice for life! I also get payment refunds on the money that I am now paying and which I collect once a year ... For those who knock the Thai SS I should point out that it covers all medical costs (in and out patient) in a private hospital of your choice ... The only qualifications for joining are that you must be working (and holder of a valid work permit), you must be under sixty years of age and that your company must be a member of the social security system<br />

<br />

You only get the "refund" of the part of the 750 Baht, that are for the retirement fund. That's what we here see as a onetime lump sum payment.

You can actually not choose ANY hospital, but (I guess) all state-run and some private hospitals are on the list of available hospitals. BTW that doesn't even have to be in the same province.

About the need for a work-permit I'm not so sure. Even though both Labor Dept. and SSO work together, they are two different entities and governed by different laws. To join the SSO the company you are working for has to join the SSO (mandatory for most companies if not all, that have a certain number of employees). So in fact not YOU join, but the company insures you at the SSO.

If things are done strictly legal, you need a work-permit to start working for a company in Thailand and thus will most likely be insured. Also unemployment is insured via the SSO, but pay-out is administered by the labor department of your province.

If in doubt, go to the SSO and ask the staff there, they are eager to help you.

Sam Munich

[beano2274]

"The only qualifications for joining are that you must be working (and holder of a valid work permit),..."

Having a work permit isn't a requirement. At least it wasn't when I joined the system.

Normally you joined when you were properly employed. If you lost your job or retired early you could continue paying the minimum 432 baht per month

by yourself, this is what I do.

[SamMunich]

Normally you joined when you were properly employed. If you lost your job or retired early you could continue paying the minimum 432 baht per month yourself, this is what I do.

That is only possible, if done within 3 month after leaving thw company you worked for. After 3 months you're out. And if you "forget" to pay your 432 Baht/month for 3 months in a row you're out as well. That's what I was told at SSO HQ in Din Daeng,

SamMunich

[SamMunich]

I got mail today <g>.

The SSO informed me (and I guess all others), that are voluntary paying contributions ( Art. 39 of the SSO law), that for the first 6 months of 2012 the contribution will be reduced from 432 Baht/month to 240 Bant/month and for the second half of the year it will be 331 Baht/month. Starting 2013 it will be back to 432 Baht/month.

I guess this is their part of supporting those, that are in dire straights due to the flooding last year <wg>...

A second issue in the same letter was, that within the first 3 months of each year you can switch the hospital, where you get free treatment (in and outpatient!) and medication. The list of 47 hospitals for you to choose was attached. A few hospitals withdrew from the SSO support. To switch it is best to go to your local SSO branch. I did it earlier this month and was in and out in less than 5 minutes.

So now you know <g>,

Sam Munich

[PattayaParent]

^Can you pay the monthly voluntary contribution yearly in advance and so prevent the possibility that you might 'forget', say if you are out of the country?