I have just landed back in the UK tonight and I have been greeted with sickening news that my wife's family visit visa has been

refused.

I have been with my wife for four years.

We applied for Settlement visa back in August,this was refused on the basis that I had spent 9months in Thailand

and had no recent payslips,only a job offer from my family member which they said they were unsure was genuine.

We appealed this refusal and are awaiting a hearing in January.

I worked in my families business bringing in £1500 a month,this was for three months,(I have bank statements to prove payments x 3)I then spent paternity leave

in Thailand were my partner and I greeted our baby boy,after the birth we also got married,I then decided

it would be a good idea to apply for a family visa,my sister as the sponsor,she has a 5 bedroom house

and offered to cover all costs for my wife including staying at her house,we also stated that if the

settlement visa appeal was to cause this family visa to be refused we would be happy to cancel the appeal.

This has been refused = reason

I noticed your settlement visa was refused because your sponsor could not supply evidence of his financial support.

I notice that your son has a British passport and given that you applied for 6 months you have no assets or savings of your own.

I am not convinced that you are economically well settled in your own country and for this reason think you have low probability

of returning before the six months to Thailand.

Q - Is there any point in appealing this family visa refusal ?

Q - If we were to cancel the Settlement appeal how long would we have to wait until we could apply successfully for a tourist/family visa ?

Q - I am continuing my work with my families business, as well as doing a second job starting next week,if I apply

for a new visa in 2/3 months would this be acceptable or do they demand 6 months at least to prove finance(is the birth of your

son not a acceptable excuse?)

I don't think I could manage 6 months away from my wife and newborn,I have done it before and can only imagine it being

ten times more stressful with a baby to take care of her end.

I beg of the Mods to let this thread stand as I really need the advice from the experts,if there is no solution I will have to do

a ton of overtime and then try my hand at some teaching over there with the TELF thing,which does not sound appealing.

Lastly I have heard a story about the husband bringing his baby into the UK then

threatning the UKBA with the notion that if his Thai wife was not aloud to enter the country

he would have to quit his job and claim benefits so he could take care of his baby,I heard they got a very quick visa and it was granted, it was refused before... any truth in this?

Hard Life you lead. 3 Months work, and 9 Months Holiday here .No wonder you got refused..

^ +1

Worked for 3 months for the princely total of 4500 quid and then took NINE MONTHS unpaid paternity leave?

Try your hand at this "TELF thing"... can't even get the terminology right and by admission not too keen on WORKING in Thailand either.

Sounds like a welfare job in the making to me and your last paragraph indicates your desperation as well.

Now to the OP's specific questions.

Q - Is there any point in appealing this family visa refusal ?

No. Not a hope in hell of getting this one overturned.

Q - If we were to cancel the Settlement appeal how long would we have to wait until we could apply successfully for a tourist/family visa ?

I think you could probably proceed with the application immediately. The success of that will be dubious due to the haste and still having absolutely no visible means of financial support either in your home OR in Thailand.

Q - I am continuing my work with my families business, as well as doing a second job starting next week, if I apply

for a new visa in 2/3 months would this be acceptable or do they demand 6 months at least to prove finance (is the birth of your

son not a acceptable excuse?)

The fact that you will still have no meaningful, proven financial resources after 6 months of work will be notable. The fact that you have chosen to start a family in a foreign country without any obvious plans for their financial well-being won't get you any favours either.

Stay out of the teaching game.

3 months work for 4500 and then 9 months holiday, you have no income for more than half a year, no wonder your wifes application got refused.

Do not try the old baby trick, it does not work.

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

U talk about visa in uk.

Edited December 2, 201114 yr by swisstouristpattaya

I too no income and I stayed 2 years in a row. Thailand is so fantastic, farang want stay here you can make 200000 bats a month. This is why they worry about you.

sent from tapatalk :-)

this is about a visa for his wife to the UK, not for Thailand.........

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

And they are gonna make it harder by stating that the sponsor must earn over 18000GBp if memory serves me right

Edited December 2, 201114 yr by beano2274

I though wife has visa automatically?i mean wife must follow husband. When you get married you say for the best and worse, if you divorce I would ask government to pay me back.

sent from tapatalk :-)

I though wife has visa automatically?i mean wife must follow husband. When you get married you say for the best and worse, if you divorce I would ask government to pay me back.

sent from tapatalk :-)

Sorry but where do you get your ideas from?

Wife does not automatically get a visa, that is why they applied for one.

Get married and try taking your THAI wife to Switzerland, then you will see how difficult it is.

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

Because like the immigrants who don't all qualify for benefits, this British subject and his extended family isn't entitled to them either.

Why don't you start your own whine thread on this?

PS. I wonder if the OP has filed his UK taxes?

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

Because like the immigrants who don't all qualify for benefits, this British subject and his extended family isn't entitled to them either.

Why don't you start your own whine thread on this?

PS. I wonder if the OP has filed his UK taxes?

Just because you are a UK citizen doesn't mean you are entitled to bring whom ever you want into the country. Some UK citizens are frankly worse off than some immigrants that settle in the UK (just an observation). I wonder at the age of the OP? OK so you were with your partner for four years, then she gets pregnant, so all of a sudden you think OK better married and get a family visa. It is obvious that you and your wife both need a sponsor because you don't have enough assets in the UK to qualify for the visa. That in itself would be enough for a refusal. It might have been different had you only needed a sponsor for you wife.

try a little patience and return to the UK for the required period, then you can show you meet the requirements. No way will you get a visa until you meet those requirements. Then worry about getting a family visa. Sometimes it is better to find out what requirements are needed rather than Just applying, thinking you'll get the visa Just because you are a citizen of that country.

@ NanLaew if he was employed there is not need for him to file tax returns, his employer is responsible for that.

Sorry you've not had much in the way of objective replies, but had you sought advice before making the visit visa application someone might have told you that it would have a poor chance of success, because having previously sought a settlement visa and been refused, any subsequent visit application is likely to carry little credibility because there is an increased likelihood that the applicant will not go home at the end of the visit. That may apply to any further application made in the near future.

You'll have to take a longer-term view of your future together, and knuckle down to prove that you can earn a regular wage or otherwise fulfil the necessary support and accommmodation criteria, then hope to make the settlement visa appeal stick. If that isn't successful there would be little point in appealing the visit refusal.

Oh, and as for this:- "Lastly I have heard a story about the husband bringing his baby into the UK then threatning the UKBA with the notion that if his Thai wife was not aloud to enter the country he would have to quit his job and claim benefits so he could take care of his baby,I heard they got a very quick visa and it was granted, it was refused before... any truth in this?"

- the polite answer is "Nonsense".

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

British immigration doesn't like Thais, easy as that.

So just bypass British immigration.

What you do is go live in France (or another appropriate EEC country), get your family a visa from that country to join you there.

Then after a year or so, transfer to the UK, UK immigration can't refuse a family moving to the UK from an EEC country, VISA is also free.

Edited December 2, 201114 yr by ludditeman

Ok just for all swipers out there,I had worked all my life and was earning upto 50k a year in a insurance job,with the way the UK went I was told my wage was going to be reduced from 50k to 19k (based on possible

bonus earned each year)

At that point I decided to go traveliing around Thailand 9 months and different parts of Asia.

When I came back I did a few months temping for different office jobs and then I started working for my families business,if the visa had not been refused I would not have had to leave this job and

be with her in Thailand for the birth,I still have this job so I still have financial means,I did not show my bank statements this time round as I was not down as Sponser,I was not trying to be sneaky,I asked

the question on here,people said If I had any gaps in my work it would look bad to the officer,I then asked could I apply for a family visa from my sister and

people seemed to ok the idea.

I am desperate to be with them right now and I will do anything to accomplish this,all I am asking is if I was to bring in £2k a month for the next few months would this be enough

financial evidence for them to OK the visa or would I be wasting another £800/

Also with regards to them saying she has no reason to return to Thailand...does this mean we have to go buy some land just to get round their objection,if so,how

much must the land be worth ?

Edited December 2, 201114 yr by kobrien

Sorry you've not had much in the way of objective replies, but had you sought advice before making the visit visa application someone might have told you that it would have a poor chance of success, because having previously sought a settlement visa and been refused, any subsequent visit application is likely to carry little credibility because there is an increased likelihood that the applicant will not go home at the end of the visit. That may apply to any further application made in the near future

He did, in two different threads! Both VisaPlus and myself told him that any visit application by her while her settlement appeal is outstanding had little chance of success for the reasons you state.

Kobrien, based on what you have said in other threads, her settlement application failed because you did not provide sufficient evidence of your finances. You have appealed that refusal and, hopefully, made good that shortfall in the appeal evidence. Remember, though, that the appeal will only judge whether the refusal was correct based on your and your wife's circumstances at the time of the initial application. You can submit and they will consider new evidence pertaining to those circumstances, but any change in your or her circumstances since the original application and refusal will not be considered.

I know that it is frustrating, many of us have also suffered the pain of separation whilst awaiting a visa. However, continued attempts to obtain visit visas for her will, in my honest opinion, only confirm the ECOs' belief that having been refused a settlement visa she is now trying to bypass the settlement rules by entering the UK with a visit visa and then staying.

Don't buy the land, save your money for when she and you baby do finally arrive in the UK to live.

This may seem like a long separation, but remember that you are planning for a lifetime together.

One post deleted; keep things on topic.

Sorry you've not had much in the way of objective replies, but had you sought advice before making the visit visa application someone might have told you that it would have a poor chance of success, because having previously sought a settlement visa and been refused, any subsequent visit application is likely to carry little credibility because there is an increased likelihood that the applicant will not go home at the end of the visit. That may apply to any further application made in the near future

He did, in two different threads! Both VisaPlus and myself told him that any visit application by her while her settlement appeal is outstanding had little chance of success for the reasons you state.

Kobrien, based on what you have said in other threads, her settlement application failed because you did not provide sufficient evidence of your finances. You have appealed that refusal and, hopefully, made good that shortfall in the appeal evidence. Remember, though, that the appeal will only judge whether the refusal was correct based on your and your wife's circumstances at the time of the initial application. You can submit and they will consider new evidence pertaining to those circumstances, but any change in your or her circumstances since the original application and refusal will not be considered.

I know that it is frustrating, many of us have also suffered the pain of separation whilst awaiting a visa. However, continued attempts to obtain visit visas for her will, in my honest opinion, only confirm the ECOs' belief that having been refused a settlement visa she is now trying to bypass the settlement rules by entering the UK with a visit visa and then staying.

Don't buy the land, save your money for when she and you baby do finally arrive in the UK to live.

This may seem like a long separation, but remember that you are planning for a lifetime together.

Thank you for your comments 7by7,I did listen to your doubts regarding applying for a visit visa while an appeal for a settlement was still in place,I only thought I could get round this my explaining that I had only applied for

a settlement in the first place because I did not want my wife giving birth and then flying home weeks later,or worst still having a late birth and over staying,this in my eyes makes sense to even the most negative of minds,now it

seems the visit visa is off the radar for us because they think we are trying to bypass the system when all I was trying to do was be careful to stick to their rules.

Can I ask you if we were to cancel my appeal for settlement,how long would we have to wait until we could apply for a spouse visa ? could I do this with three months wage slips or does it now always

have to be a settlement for us now, does it have to be a minimum of 6months wage slips for it to be accepted ? or would three really good ones do ?

I cant see the light at the end of tunnel at the moment but your right,I need to make my case and person details more solid so they dont show doubts,I just dont like the idea of spending the next 6 months apart.

Thanks again

Edited December 2, 201114 yr by kobrien

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

British immigration doesn't like Thais, easy as that.

So just bypass British immigration.

What you do is go live in France (or another appropriate EEC country), get your family a visa from that country to join you there.

Then after a year or so, transfer to the UK, UK immigration can't refuse a family moving to the UK from an EEC country, VISA is also free.

You are a bit smart!

Sorry you've not had much in the way of objective replies, but had you sought advice before making the visit visa application someone might have told you that it would have a poor chance of success, because having previously sought a settlement visa and been refused, any subsequent visit application is likely to carry little credibility because there is an increased likelihood that the applicant will not go home at the end of the visit. That may apply to any further application made in the near future

He did, in two different threads! Both VisaPlus and myself told him that any visit application by her while her settlement appeal is outstanding had little chance of success for the reasons you state.

Kobrien, based on what you have said in other threads, her settlement application failed because you did not provide sufficient evidence of your finances. You have appealed that refusal and, hopefully, made good that shortfall in the appeal evidence. Remember, though, that the appeal will only judge whether the refusal was correct based on your and your wife's circumstances at the time of the initial application. You can submit and they will consider new evidence pertaining to those circumstances, but any change in your or her circumstances since the original application and refusal will not be considered.

I know that it is frustrating, many of us have also suffered the pain of separation whilst awaiting a visa. However, continued attempts to obtain visit visas for her will, in my honest opinion, only confirm the ECOs' belief that having been refused a settlement visa she is now trying to bypass the settlement rules by entering the UK with a visit visa and then staying.

Don't buy the land, save your money for when she and you baby do finally arrive in the UK to live.

This may seem like a long separation, but remember that you are planning for a lifetime together.

Thank you for your comments 7by7,I did listen to your doubts regarding applying for a visit visa while an appeal for a settlement was still in place,I only thought I could get round this my explaining that I had only applied for

a settlement in the first place because I did not want my wife giving birth and then flying home weeks later,or worst still having a late birth and over staying,this in my eyes makes sense to even the most negative of minds,now it

seems the visit visa is off the radar for us because they think we are trying to bypass the system when all I was trying to do was be careful to stick to their rules.

Can I ask you if we were to cancel my appeal for settlement,how long would we have to wait until we could apply for a spouse visa ? could I do this with three months wage slips or does it now always

have to be a settlement for us now, does it have to be a minimum of 6months wage slips for it to be accepted ? or would three really good ones do ?

I cant see the light at the end of tunnel at the moment but your right,I need to make my case and person details more solid so they dont show doubts,I just dont like the idea of spending the next 6 months apart.

Thanks again

I totally understand how you feel.

Has anyone tried the humanitarian grounds method (settlement visa)? As obviously currently finances keep you getting refused on the normal method. And as mentioned, trying to get a visit visa after a settlement one is a bit hard. Unless, you can think of great ways to provide evidence that the family will return to Thailand at the end of 6 months.

It is all about evidence - a couple of family letters or personal statments have almost zero value. However, under the law, if you get an afadavit (a signed and sworn personal statement with a lawyer) that can count as evidence. Not many know this. But still, you should think of getting a full briefcase of evidence esp. as you have been refused.

Also, from my readings, getting a visit visa does not allow the family to get a settlement visa, the Thai person will still have to leave the UK and apply from abroad. So, it is a bit of a waste. And you can see the UKBA perspective - they will have to send the cops to arrest the wife in 6 months and that will ensure she can never live in the UK again. In a sense, they might be doing you a favour by denying the visit visa. Unless you really do only mean a visit (honestly), then prove she will return.

Stick to the settlement visa and do it properly this time! You mention you have been together for 4 years - look at this 4 year rule (it offers a few roads to the UK) too.

You mention an appeal is pending for the settlement visa. Use the time to gather evidence to show you can support the family.

At present, pending possible salary changes in the law, you are lucky! The law states you can get it providing you will not be using public funds. Have you claimed any benefits in the last few years? Can you demonstrate that the promised family accomodation is suitable - I think that needs to show you will not be living on the sofa. Provide photos of a the 2,3,4 bedroom place (that is not on housing benefit) where 1 room is free for you and etc. After housing, the survival amount is the unemployment benefit figure. Can you show that you have and will "permanently" get at least this amount for a 2 or 3 member family (in a job)?

However, be advised that this does involve you proving and linking this legally. A safer figure has been quoted of around 150 per week by UK lawyers (somewhere) per person.

Edited December 2, 201114 yr by AngryParent

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

British immigration doesn't like Thais, easy as that.

So just bypass British immigration.

What you do is go live in France (or another appropriate EEC country), get your family a visa from that country to join you there.

Then after a year or so, transfer to the UK, UK immigration can't refuse a family moving to the UK from an EEC country, VISA is also free.

You are a bit smart!

Actually, from my reading, as long as you have a job (or self-employed) that is not "transient" in an EU country, you can apply. Could even be 1 month of residence in the EEA. Register company in France (50 or so ish Euros) go to Calais and live in a cheap house for a month (the business residence) then apply for EEA Surinder Singh EEA rights. 5 year permit for family members.

Total cost about 1000 Euros to live for a month in Calais and one gets 5 year right to live in the UK for family. Better than 27 weeks (if settlement is not offered) and the visa for the UK is 1000 Euros from Thailand.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ecg/eun/eun2/#header14

My advice is plod away with the financial side, get some evidence of income and I expect the visa will follow. At some stage I am sure an appeal against refusal, on financial grounds, of a settlement visa for a spouse will go to the Court of Human Rights especially if the income required becomes much more substantial. Solicitors will get rich in the process!

The idea is that you have a right to marry who you like but the tax payer is not going to foot the bill! A bit of a 'hot potato' in the UK at the moment.

The rules are clear - you must be able to support your spouse without recourse to public funds and until you can demonstrate this your wife will not qualify for a settlement visa. Tick the right boxes and the visa will be forthcoming.

It sounds as if you are doing the right thing.

ok i have read all this thread, and im a little surprised at the out come of your visa application.I may have missed a few points because i have had a drink but ! surely the fact that they have been together for a number of years must prove this is a genuine relalstionship, as i have understood it this was one of the major stumbling blocks when applying for a visa, proving the relashionhip was genuine. Ok it was 7 years ago now that my wife got her settlement visa, but when we applied for it, i had been living in Thailand for 14 months with no income at all. just living of my savings, and only had a letter from a previous employer stating i had a job to return to. also never owned property in the UK, but had a letter from the step father saying a house was avaible for us. I seem to remember i only had about 15K in the bank at the time of the application. We got the settlement visa in 2 days. has it really changed that much, or have i missed something?

ok i have read all this thread, and im a little surprised at the out come of your visa application.I may have missed a few points because i have had a drink but ! surely the fact that they have been together for a number of years must prove this is a genuine relalstionship, as i have understood it this was one of the major stumbling blocks when applying for a visa, proving the relashionhip was genuine. Ok it was 7 years ago now that my wife got her settlement visa, but when we applied for it, i had been living in Thailand for 14 months with no income at all. just living of my savings, and only had a letter from a previous employer stating i had a job to return to. also never owned property in the UK, but had a letter from the step father saying a house was avaible for us. I seem to remember i only had about 15K in the bank at the time of the application. We got the settlement visa in 2 days. has it really changed that much, or have i missed something?

You may have missed something, like the possibility that the OP doesn't have 15K in the bank, though the figure needed to qualify may have increased to over 18K. Though there was also a BBC report recently that the government was clamping down on the number of foreign brides coming into the country. Especially from Asian countries! though I might be wrong on that part.

I though wife has visa automatically?i mean wife must follow husband. When you get married you say for the best and worse, if you divorce I would ask government to pay me back.

better,,, if you and your thai darling, can live in the in UK

worse,, if you cannot, live in the UK.

true love, will find away.

:jap:

I feel for the OP situation because ive just been separated from my wife for the last 6 months which was HELL and feels more like 18 months to be honest. I was in a similar situation having spend 4 years in Thailand in which i never worked,we have a child and i applied for a visit visa instead of a settlement and it was quickly granted. After the visit visa expired was when we had to spend 6 months apart due to my wife being unable to apply for a settlement(under 21).

Wish you all the best, personally i think you have no choice but to work in the UK for 3-4 months to build up payslips etc and then reapply for a visa for you wife.

They believe you are using a family visit visa in order to get your wife into the country and then maybe use human rights due to having a child to prevent her from leaving, this has been used against them before. You have no property? savings? or income? they just wont take a risk as it could cost us tax payers money.

With regard to moving to a EU-country to get a visa. Being in this process myself, you have to prove that you are capable of supporting your partner. This is either done by an employment contract or if you are self-employed you have to show your business figures, tax and social contributions paid in the country in which you wish to obtain a visa for your non-EU partner. So this would take more time than 1 month. And it is not a matter of just signing up to become self-employed. You actually need to show that you have made enough, since signing up in said country, to support yourself and your spouse. You also have to wait when the first declaration arrives (which is on determined times of the year). So be prepared to wait at the very least 6 months in most countries. FYI: non-EU nationals are only allowed 90 consecutive days in the EU after which they have to leave for 180 days. Don't forget private health insurance.

With regard to moving to a EU-country to get a visa. Being in this process myself, you have to prove that you are capable of supporting your partner. This is either done by an employment contract or if you are self-employed you have to show your business figures, tax and social contributions paid in the country in which you wish to obtain a visa for your non-EU partner. So this would take more time than 1 month. And it is not a matter of just signing up to become self-employed. You actually need to show that you have made enough, since signing up in said country, to support yourself and your spouse. You also have to wait when the first declaration arrives (which is on determined times of the year). So be prepared to wait at the very least 6 months in most countries. FYI: non-EU nationals are only allowed 90 consecutive days in the EU after which they have to leave for 180 days. Don't forget private health insurance.

Interesting! I am sure you know more than me as you are experiencing it.

A few questions:

1. Why would you have to leave the other EU country every 90 days? Did you not enter under "exercising your treaty rights" under economic movement (rather than tourists)? If you did, then you can apply for a residence permit?

2. You state one has to be able to show ability to support partner + dependants. Have you got any data as to how much is required e.g. savings etc? Is this evidence only required when trying to go back to the UK? Or is it also to be shown in the other EU country where you initially reside (to be able to remain)?

1. Why would you have to leave the other EU country every 90 days? Did you not enter under "exercising your treaty rights" under economic movement (rather than tourists)? If you did, then you can apply for a residence permit?

That rule applies to non-EU nationals, not EU-nationals. I'm from the EU and brought my spouse along on a tourist visa. He didn't have to apply for a tourist visa because he is on the list of good countries and receives the 90 days on arrival. We're also not staying in my native country (mainland Europe, I'm not from the UK).

2. You state one has to be able to show ability to support partner + dependants. Have you got any data as to how much is required e.g. savings etc? Is this evidence only required when trying to go back to the UK? Or is it also to be shown in the other EU country where you initially reside (to be able to remain)?

I'm not sure what the exact amount is, for all I know, "they" judge you on a personal basis. Maybe they take minimum wage into account? I'm sure it differs for the different EU countries. No one has asked for our savings. I had to present my business figures and prove that I had paid social contributions and taxes in their country ( I'm self-employed) to ensure that I can support him and he won't become a drain on the system. They do check this and there is no way around this. What I'm trying to say is that you can't just pop over there, set up as self-employed and have zero or very little income. Your partner will not get a visa.

This has nothing to do with going to the UK, it has to do with getting your spouse a long stay visa and the right to work or set up as self-employed in said country.

Thanks guys for giving your time on this matter,I will attend the appeal hearing and try my best to show and explain that the only reason I do not

have six month worth of payslips is because of me being there for the birth of my child in Thailand,I will plead

my case and try everything I can to prove I can supply a home and life for my new family without the need to revert to

public funds,I wont hold my breath at the outcome of the judges decision

In my heart of hearts I know I have no choice but to apply for a new settlement visa,I will carry on doing the work

with my sisters business and also take up any part time work on top of this,I cannot afford to let

them have any excuse to refuse me again,I shall try again in three or four months and hopefully have a different response from the

UKBA.

Thanks again guys for all your help and tips,I have no choice but live through Skype and work my ass off

until the right numbers are stored in my bank account.