Visa Refused.. Again

[jboras]

I have not lived in the UK for 21 years, but how is it possible for so many immigrants to enter UK then bring their families over but it appears to be so difficult for a British subject who is married to a Thai and has a kid with her to bring his wife over ?

British immigration doesn't like Thais, easy as that.

So just bypass British immigration.

What you do is go live in France (or another appropriate EEC country), get your family a visa from that country to join you there.

Then after a year or so, transfer to the UK, UK immigration can't refuse a family moving to the UK from an EEC country, VISA is also free.

You are a bit smart!

Nope! Actually quite stupid.

Schenken visas (not sure of spelling) are checked back with the EC country of the applicant. If for tourism it may work but not for resettlement.

A friend tried that and found out the hard way it doesn't work!

We waited almost a year in Thailand with his parents who were guarantors and all was checked out to get his spouse a Visa.

If you are applying to resettle they would not be concerned for no reaso to return to Thailand! Are you sure you didn't apply for a Tourist Visa?

With my wife (Thai) I got a Tourist visa once second time rejected for reason as you state.Applied for spouse visa and we both left Thailand for good .... 4 years now... who'd want to stay there....??????????

[7by7]

The UK is not part of the Schengen area, so the Schengen rules do not apply. The UK is part of the EEA, so the EEA freedom of movement regulations do. These regulations have already been done to death in this thread; go back and read the relevant posts.

The OP's wife did apply for settlement and was refused. Her visit application was made after this refusal and while she is waiting for her appeal to be heard. This was refused on 'reason to return' grounds as stated by the OP.

There have been a lot of posts here which are of absolutely no use to the OP and have little to do with UK spouse settlement. Will posters in future please stick to UK immigration advice to the OP and if they wish to discuss Schengen visas, asylum, Swiss or Thai family immigration etc. do so elsewhere.

[kobrien]

I had a good job with decent savings which allowed me to live comfortably out in Thailand for 9 months.

I presumed I would never have a problem getting a visa for my wife, because of that,

As explained to you before; the problem is that you had a good job with decent savings. The ECO when considering the initial application was not (and the tribunal when considering the appeal will not be) interested in what you had before, but what you financial position was at the time of the application. You may very well have had a good job with decent savings before going to Thailand, but if that job had gone and all your savings been used while staying in Thailand; how would you support your family once in the UK? This is the question the ECO had to consider (and what the tribunal will consider).

From what you have posted before, both here and in your other topics, it appears that you may very well have had sufficient finances to meet the maintenance requirement, but failed to show that you did.

In one of your other topics you were asked if you could post a copy of the refusal notice (deleting all names and other identifying information, of course), which you have not done. To be honest, without knowing exactly what the refusal notice says and the exact reasons given by the ECO for the refusal all anyone here can do is give you general advice; advice which may not be specific to your actual situation.

Sorry 7by7,I was not asking a question here,I was just replying to another post who was refering to a lot of people trolling this thread.

Everything about my refusal for settlement was based around my finances,they did not bring up any other issues,so I will gather the evidence required over the next three months and then apply for a new settlement visa.

I am not confident that the UKBA will overturn their first decision,and the time it takes to for the final outcome to arrive is far too long to be without the family,so I have no choice but to cancel my appeal and start a fresh in three months.

[7by7]

Firstly, it is not the UKBA who decide appeals; it is the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) who are part of HM Courts and Tribunals Service and independent of the UKBA.

Secondly, as said to you before, there is no reason why your wife cannot submit a new settlement application while waiting for her appeal to be heard, simply withdrawing the one if the other is successful. Therefore I would recommend that you do not withdraw the appeal; especially as you have decided to wait for a few months before submitting the second application; the appeal decision may come first.

Sorry for the confusion which caused me to repeat myself to you.

Hopefully the final paragraph of my previous will mean in future people will stick to the topic and such confusion will not arise again!

[7by7]

One post deleted as machine code errors made it unreadable. It did, however, appear to be about a Thai visa! If so, not only is this the wrong topic, it's the wrong forum. Please repost in the Thai Visa forum.

[kobrien]

Firstly, it is not the UKBA who decide appeals; it is the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) who are part of HM Courts and Tribunals Service and independent of the UKBA.

Secondly, as said to you before, there is no reason why your wife cannot submit a new settlement application while waiting for her appeal to be heard, simply withdrawing the one if the other is successful. Therefore I would recommend that you do not withdraw the appeal; especially as you have decided to wait for a few months before submitting the second application; the appeal may come first.

Sorry for the confusion which caused me to repeat myself to you.

Hopefully the final paragraph of my previous will mean in future people will stick to the topic and such confusion will not arise again!

I suppose it wont hurt to keep the first settlement appeal open,but I have a response date of mid Jan, they will then give me the date for the hearing which will take however long,even if they overturn the decision I have read it can take

upto four months for them to issue the visa,so we would be talking alteast another 7 months in total.

On the new settlement I may even get an agency to apply for me,its only the finance I have been refused on,but I cannot afford to keep waiting and then have another setback for something silly in the application,is there anyone you recommend

7by7 ?

[7by7]

I would say at most another 7 months, rather than at least. However, the decision is yours.

The only agencies I have any confidence in are Thai Visa Express and Visa Plus; both of whom are sponsors of this forum and can be contacted by PM or clicking on their ads.

N.B.

I am not recommending them because they are sponsors, but because I know them and know that they are both professional and competent.

[NanLaew]

Good luck to the OP on this quest; I hope against the odds you win the appeal. Separation is not fun but rest assured, they will be managing without you being there 24/7 for now. So far everything relating to finances (which is the crux of the refusal) has been in terms of '3 months'. No mater how hard the OP works, 3 months income will be bugger all. The latest recommendation on keeping the appeal open suggests that it will be at least 7 months before any decision so that's a better money-earning timeframe to aim for. In the meantime, avail yourself of a couple of good airfare search websites and look for 2012 low-season, 'long-weekend' sort of breaks. That way if still happily employed by the sister, he can pop over for his Thai family 'fix' and due to the nature of the ticket (heavily discounted, non re-routable, non-endorsable and non-refundable), not be tempted to goof off be a doting father in Thailand. Indeed, in 7 months it will be the depths of low season and perfect for cheap travel. Then you can start a realistic five-year financial planning instead of this knee-jerk "I have enough cash for a year off in the sun" sort of reasoning. If you plan on having more kids, please please DON'T take another <deleted>' 9 months, self-styled 'paternity leave'. There is absolutely no reason why a healthy woman with family support needs any sort of 24/7 hubby-care, even in the final trimester. It was a poor excuse then and will be again.

[kobrien]

Good luck to the OP on this quest; I hope against the odds you win the appeal. Separation is not fun but rest assured, they will be managing without you being there 24/7 for now. So far everything relating to finances (which is the crux of the refusal) has been in terms of '3 months'. No mater how hard the OP works, 3 months income will be bugger all. The latest recommendation on keeping the appeal open suggests that it will be at least 7 months before any decision so that's a better money-earning timeframe to aim for. In the meantime, avail yourself of a couple of good airfare search websites and look for 2012 low-season, 'long-weekend' sort of breaks. That way if still happily employed by the sister, he can pop over for his Thai family 'fix' and due to the nature of the ticket (heavily discounted, non re-routable, non-endorsable and non-refundable), not be tempted to goof off be a doting father in Thailand. Indeed, in 7 months it will be the depths of low season and perfect for cheap travel. Then you can start a realistic five-year financial planning instead of this knee-jerk "I have enough cash for a year off in the sun" sort of reasoning. If you plan on having more kids, please please DON'T take another <deleted>' 9 months, self-styled 'paternity leave'. There is absolutely no reason why a healthy woman with family support needs any sort of 24/7 hubby-care, even in the final trimester. It was a poor excuse then and will be again.

Nanlaew you write like you have scanned this thread in 5 seconds and then become an expert on my situation,you keep making this 9months paternity quote ? As mentioned several times, my previous work

reduced all sales bonus by 50% so I took my savings and travelled around Asia with my Thai wife,it was not until the end of this travel that we found out the good news about the pregnancy.

My wife does not have family support or family, so right now,as was before, she is alone with our baby until this visa is granted,I suggest you read the thread throughout or quit with your Jeremy Clarkson type sum ups.

Edited December 4, 2011 by kobrien

[garrfeild]

Well if the OP wasn't confused before I bet he is now. It might be an Idea as already suggested to find yourself some legal advice!

[AngryParent]

Good luck to the OP on this quest; I hope against the odds you win the appeal. Separation is not fun but rest assured, they will be managing without you being there 24/7 for now. So far everything relating to finances (which is the crux of the refusal) has been in terms of '3 months'. No mater how hard the OP works, 3 months income will be bugger all. The latest recommendation on keeping the appeal open suggests that it will be at least 7 months before any decision so that's a better money-earning timeframe to aim for. In the meantime, avail yourself of a couple of good airfare search websites and look for 2012 low-season, 'long-weekend' sort of breaks. That way if still happily employed by the sister, he can pop over for his Thai family 'fix' and due to the nature of the ticket (heavily discounted, non re-routable, non-endorsable and non-refundable), not be tempted to goof off be a doting father in Thailand. Indeed, in 7 months it will be the depths of low season and perfect for cheap travel. Then you can start a realistic five-year financial planning instead of this knee-jerk "I have enough cash for a year off in the sun" sort of reasoning. If you plan on having more kids, please please DON'T take another <deleted>' 9 months, self-styled 'paternity leave'. There is absolutely no reason why a healthy woman with family support needs any sort of 24/7 hubby-care, even in the final trimester. It was a poor excuse then and will be again.

Nanlaew you write like you have scanned this thread in 5 seconds and then become an expert on my situation,you keep making this 9months paternity quote ? As mentioned several times, my previous work

reduced all sales bonus by 50% so I took my savings and travelled around Asia with my Thai wife,it was not until the end of this travel that we found out the good news about the pregnancy.

My wife does not have family support or family, so right now,as was before, she is alone with our baby until this visa is granted,I suggest you read the thread throughout or quit with your Jeremy Clarkson type sum ups.

I really do understand you and hope you get it sorted.

As mentioned by 7by7 and others.

You really only have a few options:

1. Apply for a new visa or get proof to support existing visa application appeal. Or both in parallel.

2. If applying for new visa, learn from the past refusals - it is mostly about proving you are financially OK for this family to join you in the UK and at 115 pounds a week (you have less requriements than I have to remain with my wife in Thailand).

3. Try some of my "exotic" methods:

The HR route will probably take about 5-7 years, but what a feeling it will be to have been the first EU citizen with half a family abroad, and persecuted by not being allowed to join you because it was impossible to get 115 a week in the UK! Think of the compensation - 7 years worth of deprivation of Protocol 1 & 2 and Articles 8 and 12!

The EEA method - a really quick fix! Honestly, it was not that exotic.

Go and speak to a UK lawyer (free on legal aid) and ask them to advise you how to do it 100% and quick! Whilst you are there, go and speak to them now regarding your appeal and a new visa etc! Speak to a lawyer that has the waiting room full of asylum seekers and ethnic minorities (that will probably be a seasoned front-line lawyer that really does know A-Z)! Don't go to the flashy legal offices with nice sofas - that is there only if fraud is involved in the visa application!

I get the feeling you are tied between the fying pan and the fire. You really do not think the wife and son will survive for 3 months alone in Thailand. At the same time you are not that keen on trying to get a non-family member job (my reading). For this, I really cannot advise in depth as it is highly personal to you and I do not want to offend. There are really only 2 places you and the family can be together 1. Thailand and 2 Countries in the EU and the UK.

You mentioned earlier that you want to be a teacher in Thailand - great idea for a year or so (may even bring you back to the employment world realities as it is hard to smile here as an employee - but easy to get a job). Anything more and your family will start to wither. If you can survive a year or 2 in Thailand as a teacher, then the worst jobs in the UK will be a walk in the park - you will never be unemployable again!

Edited December 4, 2011 by AngryParent

[NanLaew]

Nanlaew you write like you have scanned this thread in 5 seconds and then become an expert on my situation,you keep making this 9months paternity quote ? As mentioned several times, my previous work

reduced all sales bonus by 50% so I took my savings and travelled around Asia with my Thai wife,it was not until the end of this travel that we found out the good news about the pregnancy.

No, yours is a thankfully short thread, an easy read that's chock full of inconsistencies. In one post you claim that you had a solid employment history or "worked all my life" prior to your Asian vacation but in another say that the stop-start nature of work makes your NI contributions look spotty. You said that you were in Thailand for 9 months paternity leave, now you say you were traveling around Asia with your "wife"... but you didn't marry until AFTER the child was born.

My wife does not have family support or family, so right now,as was before, she is alone with our baby until this visa is granted,I suggest you read the thread throughout or quit with your Jeremy Clarkson type sum ups.

So no immediate family but are you claiming they are totally alone, friendless in their country of birth?

OK, I will ignore the Clarkson jibe... did I suggest anywhere that you should be shot? But make sure for your family's sake that you do take some financial advice as you embark on your future together. I do honestly wish you all the best.

PS. Ignore those absurd 'exotic' visa suggestions as well. Just get to work for the three of you.

Edited December 4, 2011 by NanLaew

[BOBBYTIN]

Sorry you've not had much in the way of objective replies, but had you sought advice before making the visit visa application someone might have told you that it would have a poor chance of success, because having previously sought a settlement visa and been refused, any subsequent visit application is likely to carry little credibility because there is an increased likelihood that the applicant will not go home at the end of the visit. That may apply to any further application made in the near future

He did, in two different threads! Both VisaPlus and myself told him that any visit application by her while her settlement appeal is outstanding had little chance of success for the reasons you state.

Kobrien, based on what you have said in other threads, her settlement application failed because you did not provide sufficient evidence of your finances. You have appealed that refusal and, hopefully, made good that shortfall in the appeal evidence. Remember, though, that the appeal will only judge whether the refusal was correct based on your and your wife's circumstances at the time of the initial application. You can submit and they will consider new evidence pertaining to those circumstances, but any change in your or her circumstances since the original application and refusal will not be considered.

I know that it is frustrating, many of us have also suffered the pain of separation whilst awaiting a visa. However, continued attempts to obtain visit visas for her will, in my honest opinion, only confirm the ECOs' belief that having been refused a settlement visa she is now trying to bypass the settlement rules by entering the UK with a visit visa and then staying.

Don't buy the land, save your money for when she and you baby do finally arrive in the UK to live.

This may seem like a long separation, but remember that you are planning for a lifetime together.

Thank you for your comments 7by7,I did listen to your doubts regarding applying for a visit visa while an appeal for a settlement was still in place,I only thought I could get round this my explaining that I had only applied for

a settlement in the first place because I did not want my wife giving birth and then flying home weeks later,or worst still having a late birth and over staying,this in my eyes makes sense to even the most negative of minds,now it

seems the visit visa is off the radar for us because they think we are trying to bypass the system when all I was trying to do was be careful to stick to their rules.

Can I ask you if we were to cancel my appeal for settlement,how long would we have to wait until we could apply for a spouse visa ? could I do this with three months wage slips or does it now always

have to be a settlement for us now, does it have to be a minimum of 6months wage slips for it to be accepted ? or would three really good ones do ?

I cant see the light at the end of tunnel at the moment but your right,I need to make my case and person details more solid so they dont show doubts,I just dont like the idea of spending the next 6 months apart.

Thanks again

if you are legally married,and the child is british,go down the human rights road. you have a right to a family life.thats why all the criminals are playing that card. trying to do it the correct way does not work.

[RAZZELL]

PS. Ignore those absurd 'exotic' visa suggestions as well. Just get to work for the three of you.

Sound advice

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

if you are legally married,and the child is british,go down the human rights road. you have a right to a family life.thats why all the criminals are playing that card. trying to do it the correct way does not work.

Rubbish

RAZZ

[bobrussell]

if you are legally married,and the child is british,go down the human rights road. you have a right to a family life.thats why all the criminals are playing that card. trying to do it the correct way does not work.

Rubbish

RAZZ

Agreed. Go down the human rights route and there will be massive delays, massive legal bills and no guarantee of success. This is the least efficient way to by-pass the immigration controls.

Settlement visas are not difficult to get as long as you meet the requirements and can show that you do. Many of us have done so successfully even if it is a stressful period in life. If in doubt get expert advice and present a new application with the ECO's reasons covered. It will not cost anything to continue the appeal however.

The 'correct' way does work! Over and over again!

[steve187]

I have read through the thread, and i think I have got to grips with what is happening, my wife was refused her first settlement visa, and it was upsetting, i thought about the appeal route, but decided it was not likely to succeed, and was very long winded. On the second application for which she had an interview she was successful.

My thoughts on the subject and please forgive me if they have already been raised and discarded, but the thread is quite long, with some equally long posts.

1/Can you apply for any other form of EU passport?,

2/Could you not have your son live with you in the UK, work the bare minimum of hours allowed, and claim working tax credit, that along with your wages, child benefit, and any other benefits that you are perfectly entitled to claim , would amount to a fair income. could a job offer for your wife be obtained, and then after a few months extra added to the months since your last application, would that be enough proof of income to allow a successful application.

I only make the suggestions as they appear to have not been offered before, I am not saying that they are going to work, or are in fact possible, I also do not want to start a debate on them that takes the thread off topic.

All the best for you and your family.

Edited December 8, 2011 by steve187

[elliss]

It seems bizarre for a man to start a family in a far off foreign land with no means of supporting them and no means of either partner getting work or a permanent visa in the other's country.

UK, welfare/social security is great ,

as long as the people putting money into the pot ,

DONT RUN OUT OF MONEY.

The only thing to do is to find a decent job, put the nose to the grindstone for a year or two,

them days are looooong gone .

the only jobs now available in the UK.

are part time, 20 hours a week, filling shelves in tesco ,BQ etc.

EVEN IF YOU ARE A GRADUATE.

the big bucks earners ,paying much income tax ,into the kitty ,

are now a fond memory , sadly never to return .

:jap:

Edited December 8, 2011 by elliss

[7by7]

I also do not want to start a debate on them that takes the thread off topic.

That ship has long ago sailed!

because of that, and as the OP appears to have made a decision on his course of action: closed.