whybother Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 48% is not a majority. But even it it was "round up all the people that oppose" doesn't sound like democracy to me. Should they grab any Jews, homosexuals, or gypsies as well? The currently elected govt received over 53% of the vote. PTP 48%. That may be the case, but the people that voted for PTP's coalition partners did not vote for PTP's policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitterbatter Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Even though I completely agree with you. Governments have crossed this line for quite some time. In the good ole' US of A, land of 'freedom', if you fail to pay child support (very costly and for many unaffordable on their low income) then your passport gets revoked as well as your driving license. Obscene but true... To expect a government today to actually do the fair and just thing, is a pipedream these days. I personally think that if Thaksin did spend time in prison, that he would get the lesson of a lifetime and possibly become a politician who really knows the society he represents from top to bottom. But I think that most politicians should spend some time in prison, not necessarily because they are guilty of a crime, just because their needs to be a serious reality check for these people who live in their fancy bubbles of ignorance. Incarceration institutions of the world were supposed to be there as a form of rehabilitaiton, but their development has pretty much been at a standstill since the dark ages and rehabilitation is all but forgotten and punishment is the rule of thumb. No - prisons exist to punish the guilty and to protect the innocent from them. Rehabilitation is an objective within the prison environment (because most prisoners will eventually reach the end of their sentence and have to be released, and when that happens, it would be preferable that they not return to crime), but rehabilitation is not the PURPOSE of the prison. They are not sent there to "get well". They are sent there to do their time. Sick people go to hospitals. Criminals go to prison. Typical lib nonsense. Sounds like someone who watches Fox news. Liberal? Are you for real. I would laugh if this was funny. No, I am not a 'liberal' I am a realist. And the current prison system is not even close to helpiing people. Its all about profits and ignorance. That's why we have a larger percentage of people in them then ever before. You want to see a good prison system check out what they have done in the Philippines where they do things like let them participate in farming and working with animals. Some of these people finally find happiness for the first time, after growing up abused in ways most can't imagine. Do you think that making people sleep on hard floors with the lights on all night and having to watch each other take a crap really 'teaches' people a lesson? But I guess you think some people are just the same as animals therefore treat them like you would a pig on a pig farm. Politicians are clearly not the only ones who are ignorant about what life inside these places is like. It only brews hatred, racism, disease, and bad behaviors. If that is what you want to add to society, then keep believing what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfarang Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 48% is not a majority. But even it it was "round up all the people that oppose" doesn't sound like democracy to me. Should they grab any Jews, homosexuals, or gypsies as well? The currently elected govt received over 53% of the vote. PTP 48%. That may be the case, but the people that voted for PTP's coalition partners did not vote for PTP's policies. but those parties were obviously compatible with the PTP or they would not be part of the govt. It just is an amusing point for me that people, like Ozmick here, like to say 'it wasn't a majority of Thais - only 48%...' ... When was the last time that you saw a single party in any parliamentary country get north of 50%? There were 40 parties in the election and PTP trounced everyone with over 48% (53% of the seats) and the Democrats got 35% (32% of the seats) A 13 point margin is huge (21 points when looking at the seats). Only in the US where we typically have 2 candidates is it normal to get >50% of the popular vote. There, if a candidate wins by 3-4 points, they call it a 'landslide'. Thais obviously felt strongly about one particular party in the last election, and that is what is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Even though I completely agree with you. Governments have crossed this line for quite some time. In the good ole' US of A, land of 'freedom', if you fail to pay child support (very costly and for many unaffordable on their low income) then your passport gets revoked as well as your driving license. Obscene but true... To expect a government today to actually do the fair and just thing, is a pipedream these days. I personally think that if Thaksin did spend time in prison, that he would get the lesson of a lifetime and possibly become a politician who really knows the society he represents from top to bottom. But I think that most politicians should spend some time in prison, not necessarily because they are guilty of a crime, just because their needs to be a serious reality check for these people who live in their fancy bubbles of ignorance. Incarceration institutions of the world were supposed to be there as a form of rehabilitaiton, but their development has pretty much been at a standstill since the dark ages and rehabilitation is all but forgotten and punishment is the rule of thumb. No - prisons exist to punish the guilty and to protect the innocent from them. Rehabilitation is an objective within the prison environment (because most prisoners will eventually reach the end of their sentence and have to be released, and when that happens, it would be preferable that they not return to crime), but rehabilitation is not the PURPOSE of the prison. They are not sent there to "get well". They are sent there to do their time. Sick people go to hospitals. Criminals go to prison. Typical lib nonsense. Sounds like someone who watches Fox news. Liberal? Are you for real. I would laugh if this was funny. No, I am not a 'liberal' I am a realist. And the current prison system is not even close to helpiing people. Its all about profits and ignorance. That's why we have a larger percentage of people in them then ever before. You want to see a good prison system check out what they have done in the Philippines where they do things like let them participate in farming and working with animals. Some of these people finally find happiness for the first time, after growing up abused in ways most can't imagine. Do you think that making people sleep on hard floors with the lights on all night and having to watch each other take a crap really 'teaches' people a lesson? But I guess you think some people are just the same as animals therefore treat them like you would a pig on a pig farm. Politicians are clearly not the only ones who are ignorant about what life inside these places is like. It only brews hatred, racism, disease, and bad behaviors. If that is what you want to add to society, then keep believing what you do. +1 in the US, prisoners are used as free labor. It is not about rehabilitation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfarang Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 48% is not a majority. But even it it was "round up all the people that oppose" doesn't sound like democracy to me. Should they grab any Jews, homosexuals, or gypsies as well? The currently elected govt received over 53% of the vote. PTP 48%. That may be the case, but the people that voted for PTP's coalition partners did not vote for PTP's policies. Seems you have very little knowledge of Thai politics. Everyone that voted for Chart Thai Pattana and Puea Pandin knew that: 1. These small parties have no chance of winning themselves. 2. These small parties are pro-Puea Thai. Everyone in Thailand knows that there's either Puea Thai or the Democrats that are able to form a government. Please don't hint that Thai people are stupid. They're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfarang Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. If it's illegal to grant Thaksin a passport, I don't think the Democrats will waste any time lodging a complaint with the courts. I assume that Puea Thai checked the laws before issuing him a passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) That may be the case, but the people that voted for PTP's coalition partners did not vote for PTP's policies. but those parties were obviously compatible with the PTP or they would not be part of the govt. I am not sure if you understand what coalition government means. It does NOT mean that every party in the election support each-others full party program, not even the majority of it. It only means that they agree that they think they will be able to cooperate closely on and the points the agree upon and reach consensus on the ones they are on different positions on - and avoid bringing up those that they stand far apart on. Then at times the coalition parties try to push for their own agendas over the other parties, sometimes by using pork-barreling towards the other parties main focuses etc. It is a basic cow-trading - but by no means any implicit support for all stances. Edited December 3, 2011 by TAWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. If it's illegal to grant Thaksin a passport, I don't think the Democrats will waste any time lodging a complaint with the courts. I assume that Puea Thai checked the laws before issuing him a passport. You have more faith in the current regime than many of us. That's your option to be totally biased. Bottom line here is that you made arrogant definite statements based on ZERO knowledge. If it turns out you are correct, it would be pure coincidence. Edited December 3, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfarang Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. If it's illegal to grant Thaksin a passport, I don't think the Democrats will waste any time lodging a complaint with the courts. I assume that Puea Thai checked the laws before issuing him a passport. You have more faith in the current regime than many of us. That's your option to be totally biased. Not only my opinion is biased, everyone's is. An opinion is always your personal view, so therefor it's biased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Not only my opinion is biased, everyone's is. An opinion is always your personal view, so therefor it's biased Laws aren't opinion. They are laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. You call this a fact? Criteria for being entitled to a passport goes further than simply being born in Thailand. It's not a right, and people can and are refused being granted one, and that goes not just for Thailand, but pretty much every country out there that i know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 48% is not a majority. But even it it was "round up all the people that oppose" doesn't sound like democracy to me. Should they grab any Jews, homosexuals, or gypsies as well? The currently elected govt received over 53% of the vote. PTP 48%. That may be the case, but the people that voted for PTP's coalition partners did not vote for PTP's policies. Seems you have very little knowledge of Thai politics. Everyone that voted for Chart Thai Pattana and Puea Pandin knew that: 1. These small parties have no chance of winning themselves. 2. These small parties are pro-Puea Thai. Everyone in Thailand knows that there's either Puea Thai or the Democrats that are able to form a government. Please don't hint that Thai people are stupid. They're not. 50 years of elections and parties that have had power clearly shows that you are wrong. Can you even point out the parties that existed in 2005 that didn't exist now, or which ones that was new now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Seems you have very little knowledge of Thai politics. Everyone that voted for Chart Thai Pattana and Puea Pandin knew that: 1. These small parties have no chance of winning themselves. 2. These small parties are pro-Puea Thai. Everyone in Thailand knows that there's either Puea Thai or the Democrats that are able to form a government. Please don't hint that Thai people are stupid. They're not. I think you're showing your lack of knowledge of Thai politics. These small parties will go with whoever is most likely to form government. The people vote for them because they don't want to vote for Puea Thai or the Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfarang Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. You call this a fact? Criteria for being entitled to a passport goes further than simply being born in Thailand. It's not a right, and people can and are refused being granted one, and that goes not just for Thailand, but pretty much every country out there that i know of. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some 15 minutes ago I switched channel away from Voice TV after spending a long while watching a 'panel' talk about how unfair it was to Thaksin that he was not able to return to be at his daughters wedding. (Voice TV is a propaganda 'news' channel run by Thaksin's son.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lawrence Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. Its not the country of origin that is usually the problem, its the country you want to visit will either let you into their boundaries or exclude you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. So, on return they can lock up a convicted Thai criminal, Yes/No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. Its not the country of origin that is usually the problem, its the country you want to visit will either let you into their boundaries or exclude you. I have no idea what you're on about with that statement. The issue here is whether countries, including Thailand, issue passports to ALL of their citizens without condition under the law. I know my home country certainly does not and I am sure many or most countries do have conditions for passport issuance. About the specifics of Thai law, I don't know. But I wouldn't make proclamations that all Thai citizens have a right to a Thai passport unconditionally unless you actually KNOW that to be a fact. It would surprise me if they do. If so a Thai serving a long prison sentence for murder could get a Thai passport, and I find that hard to believe. Edited December 3, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. You call this a fact? Criteria for being entitled to a passport goes further than simply being born in Thailand. It's not a right, and people can and are refused being granted one, and that goes not just for Thailand, but pretty much every country out there that i know of. Source? In Australia, your passport can be cancelled if you are a subject of an arrest warrant ... among other things. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/apa2005261/s12.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lawrence Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Just makes it interesting, doesn't it! The fact is that it is 2 sides of politics, the ones' that are in and the ones' that aren't. Doesn't bother me but I think there are a few Thai's that will be happy with the decision. Its also good to see the TV lynch mob is active :cheesy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. Its not the country of origin that is usually the problem, its the country you want to visit will either let you into their boundaries or exclude you. I have no idea what you're on about with that statement. The issue here is whether countries, including Thailand, issue passports to ALL of their citizens without condition under the law. I know my home country certainly does not and I am sure many or most countries do have conditions for passport issuance. About the specifics of Thai law, I don't know. But I wouldn't make proclamations that all Thai citizens have a right to a Thai passport unconditionally unless you actually KNOW that to be a fact. It would surprise me if they do. If so a Thai serving a long prison sentence for murder could get a Thai passport, and I find that hard to believe. +1, I cannot conceive that a Thai crook would or could be issued a passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. So when will the new government sort out the problems of the hill-tribe people, hundreds of thousands of whom are unable to get ID-cards, let-alone passports, despite their having also been born in Thailand ? And why is this one man, a criminal on-the-run who has a number of further cases outstanding against him, seemingly a higher priority to this government than hundreds of thousands of poor people ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lawrence Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Are you really that familiar with the Thai laws about passports? I reckon most countries do NOT issue passports to their criminal fugitives. Are you so certain Thailand typically does? Not a matter of which party is in power now, but a matter of the LAW. Its not the country of origin that is usually the problem, its the country you want to visit will either let you into their boundaries or exclude you. I have no idea what you're on about with that statement. The issue here is whether countries, including Thailand, issue passports to ALL of their citizens without condition under the law. I know my home country certainly does not and I am sure many or most countries do have conditions for passport issuance. About the specifics of Thai law, I don't know. But I wouldn't make proclamations that all Thai citizens have a right to a Thai passport unconditionally unless you actually KNOW that to be a fact. It would surprise me if they do. If so a Thai serving a long prison sentence for murder could get a Thai passport, and I find that hard to believe. Hard to get the ticket and passport and visa as well if in Goal? Have you had a few? If you don't know maybe you should investigate before posting. Personal opinion is usually biased. So what you are doing is making statement without any knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Whether Taksin is eligible for a passport or not is irrelevant. As has already been noted in this forum, Thai passports are only issued in person in Thailand Let him return and apply let any other Thai citizen and while he is at here go to the courts and plead his innocence for the crimes which he has already been convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesMad Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 He can always get a new passport (any country) in Khao San road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Whether Taksin is eligible for a passport or not is irrelevant. As has already been noted in this forum, Thai passports are only issued in person in Thailand Let him return and apply let any other Thai citizen and while he is at here go to the courts and plead his innocence for the crimes which he has already been convicted. I can confirm, from personal experience with several family-members, that one can also apply-for & obtain a Thai passport from your local Thai-Embassy overseas, so it isn't necessary to be here in person. :jap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Would your government give you a passport if you had an outstanding prison sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some farangs here are apparently unaware of the following 2 facts: 1. Thaksin is born in Thailand, so he's entitled to a Thai passport, just like every other Thai citizen. 2. Puea Thai is the government, not the Democrats. They can issue a passport to whoever they want. Would your government give you a passport if you had an outstanding prison sentence? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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