Queueing Etiquette

[tropo]

Aussies will queue if they must but they will let people know that it gives them the sh-1-ts.

This is nonsense. Try to jump a queue in Australia and see what happens. They are very strict about waiting their turn.

[HardenedSoul]

Make no mistake; the Thais are fully aware of the concept of the queue and they know exactly what they're doing when they jump it.

Some of them are actually behind you at the 7-11 and they'll plonk their item down on the counter pretending the Kit Kat bar they want is sooooooo heavy knowing full well that the cashier will scan it straight away. My response is to move the item to one side while shaking my head and jovially uttering the kind of simple "Nah, nah, nah!" that even the most fresh-off-the-farm cashier with zero English language skill understands.

As long as it's done without aggression, both they and the errant queue-jumper always gives one of those embarrassed smiles and my custom is processed first.

Don't get me started on the Indian tourists. These people have to be the most obnoxious, self-important f**kers on this earth. They way they speak to the cashiers is outrageous. It's as if they simply can't fathom that the poor sods can't speak English. Nouveau riche tossers with peasant mentalities.

Really strange given how polite and pleasant I've always found them back in England

Edited December 13, 2011 by HardenedSoul

[tropo]

Make no mistake; the Thais are fully aware of the concept of the queue and they know exactly what they're doing when they jump it.

Some of them are actually behind you at the 7-11 and they'll plonk their item down on the counter pretending the Kit Kat bar they want is sooooooo heavy knowing full well that the cashier will scan it straight away. My response is to move the item to one side while shaking my head and jovially uttering the kind of simple "Nah, nah, nah!" that even the most fresh-off-the-farm cashier with zero English language skill understands.

As long as it's done without aggression, both they and the errant queue-jumper always gives one of those embarrassed smiles and my custom is processed first.

I agree. They are fully aware of a queue and their attempts to circumvent it...even if they just arrived from the farm.

I've never seen anyone jump a queue at the petrol station or ATM, post office etc. The only place you see queue jumpers is in crowded areas where the queue is not well defined and the offender thinks he can get away with it.

Just as an aside to people with the weird notion that queuing is a British "peculiarity" - people normally queue very politely in the Philippines and you seldom see jumpers. On the other hand, they don't usually make a scene if someone pushes in.

I consider queue jumping a personal insult - the person is deciding that his time is worth more than mine - and never stand for it. The trick here is to be on the watch for it to prevent it from happening in the first place.

Edited December 13, 2011 by tropo

[GuestHouse]

I don't discount your direct observations at all--I just think it has a bit more of a cynical slant. Your premise still doesn't explain why the younger man jumped the queue in the OP's post, and why students continually crowd in front of the "Ajarn" at the check-out counter. That turns the "hierarchy-explains-all" hypothesis on its head.

This presumes that "Ajarn' is further up the pecking order than the students - I've seen little evidence to confirm this.

Your presumption is exactly correct.

I see it every week, sometimes multiple times. I am an "Ajarn" on a campus of 45,000 students. Plenty of instances, to verify they'll even defy social hierarchy to fill that irresistible space.

Perhaps you assume that as an 'expat Ajarn' your place in the local hierarchy is higher than that appointed you by the students jumping in front of you in the queue. These are Thai university students, they have a sense of entitlement to foster.

[NanLaew]

Dismissing cultural norms that are recognized world-wide by all social anthropologists? Don't be so fast to discount it, and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The Asian perception of space is further complicated by the social-hierarchy scenario you describe. That hi-so client is probably well-educated and very aware of western norms of politeness--hence his reaction to your confrontation.

I prefer my observation that Thais understand queues but have a culturally ingrained attitude of Hierarchy - If you are further up the pecking order OR the situation you find yourself in can't come back on you - do as you please.

But if there is any uncertainty in the Hierarchy or the people around you have a direct impact on you then behave yourself.

So queuing in the office canteen is orderly, queues of factory workers from the same factory at the ATM are orderly - Queues at the middle class wedding party buffet are orderly.

Remove the social link between people or place someone who believes s/he is further up the pecking order and you get queue jumping.

The Hi-So client in the example I have given is far more likely to be adverse to conflict than he is likely to be aware of western manners.

He jumps the queue expecting nobody will challenge him - when he's challenged he backs down until the challenge has gone away and then jumps the queue again, assured that just as he can't cope with conflict, nor can any of the factory workers in the queue.

He's got a suit on, it is his right to do as he pleases.

So if I have a suit on and cut in front of the line, the low-order Thai will acquiesce. Cool! What about a Thai in a suit already waiting in that line? Will farangs 'respect' me more and <deleted> if I wear a suit when I cut in?

If what we are led to believe here on TV from farangs that have years of collective living experience in LOS, farangs are generally viewed as less than the dogsh!t on the sidewalk so cut away IMHO, the locals aren't going to think you are a better person if you quietly stand in line, wait your turn or politely allow (for example) those with less items in their shopping cart go before you.

[NanLaew]

In some situations, I think they prefer to be close to other humans and these are situations that many Westerners prefer more space. In the changing room at the gym, Thais will often choose a locker right by another person when the rest of the room is empty.

In a restaurant, they will sit right behind you, even though there is no one else in the place. It drives me crazy personally, but a lot less than when another farang is doing it.

If we are generalising on Asians here, how come all these single Japanese guys chose to have at least 3 persons space between each other, visibly straining to NOT acknowledge the presence of the 'stranger' sitting a few feet away when trawling the delights of the NEP gogo bars? Totally screws up the seating space when (say) me and my rugby chums want a table for (say) five.

Funnily enough, when slumming with my Chinese contractor in massage parlors in Vietnam a few years back, the more naked men in the hot-tub the merrier!

[NanLaew]

Thais, like most Asians will fill any available space, regardless of their surroundings (witness the crazy antics in traffic). If you are standing dutifully in a "queue" (your western perception), and there is a half-meter of space at the counter next to the person who is being served, the Thai person will fill that space if you don't. It's a natural reaction, and they've done it all their lives.

Proxemics in Thailand eh? That must be all of a five minute lecture.

But I agree; the western queue concept is pretty much beyond the average Thai on the street. One of the few places where I will queue here is at the ATM. Typically in the west, you would stand between 1 and 2 meters behind the current ATM user for privacy. In LOS, you do have to stand around 1 meter back as the average Thai won't understand that you are waiting to use the ATM and will cut right in. Eventually one gets used to the next (Thai) ATM user standing at your elbow.

[mca]

Eventually one gets used to the next (Thai) ATM user standing at your elbow.

Trunking to see how much you've got in your account.

[NanLaew]

Too many times I've seen a Thai wearing a suit approach and orderly queue of factory workers and walk straight to the front of the queue.

There is normaly (never) no queue in a bank, you take your number and wait untill it's your turn. I could be wrong but I've never seen this kind of behavior in a bank in Thailand.

Think outside the box Semper. Think about banks in Thailand before the automatic ticket dispenser... before you got here.

It was hellish for the white man.

[NanLaew]

I am not even going to touch.... the homophobia expressed in the OP.

But you just did.

[NanLaew]

As for homophobia, I don't know where you got that from? Not wanting someone who appeared homosexual to misunderstand why you're staring at them doesn't make you homophobic, it simply means you don't want them to misunderstand why you're staring at them. I'm homosexual myself. And I didn't want him to misunderstand why I was staring at him.

Advice to the OP, work on your 'come to bed' eyes.

Works for me!

[GuestHouse]

So if I have a suit on and cut in front of the line, the low-order Thai will acquiesce. Cool! What about a Thai in a suit already waiting in that line? Will farangs 'respect' me more and <deleted> if I wear a suit when I cut in?

The issue is not the suite, the observation I make is on Thais conciousness of Hierachy and 'Social Utility'.

If what we are led to believe here on TV from farangs that have years of collective living experience in LOS, farangs are generally viewed as less than the dogsh!t on the sidewalk so cut away IMHO, the locals aren't going to think you are a better person if you quietly stand in line, wait your turn or politely allow (for example) those with less items in their shopping cart go before you.

This line of thought hinges on the view that "Farangs are generally viewed as less than dogh!t on the sidewalk" - if that premise is incorrect, or not one widely believed then the line of thought looses it;s point of reference.

I don't share the view that "Farangs are generally viewed as less than dogh!t on the sidewalk" and I'm therefore having difficulty seeing any sense in the rest of the statement.

[GuestHouse]

Too many times I've seen a Thai wearing a suit approach and orderly queue of factory workers and walk straight to the front of the queue.

There is normaly (never) no queue in a bank, you take your number and wait untill it's your turn. I could be wrong but I've never seen this kind of behavior in a bank in Thailand.

Think outside the box Semper. Think about banks in Thailand before the automatic ticket dispenser... before you got here.

It was hellish for the white man.

My recollection of those days is of being called behind the counter by the manager to have one of his staff deal with my business directly.

Granted, I wasn't habitutally dressed in a Singha Vest, Combo Shorts and Flip Flops - Maybe the old suit and Tie thing does work.

[cardholder]

Too many times I've seen a Thai wearing a suit approach and orderly queue of factory workers and walk straight to the front of the queue.

There is normaly (never) no queue in a bank, you take your number and wait untill it's your turn. I could be wrong but I've never seen this kind of behavior in a bank in Thailand.

Hmmm! Come up to my neck of the woods - as we are patiently sitting there with ticket in hand there will ALWAYS be at least one local 'big cheese' stroll up and allow the staff to fawn all over them.

[Ulysses G.]

In some situations, I think they prefer to be close to other humans and these are situations that many Westerners prefer more space. In the changing room at the gym, Thais will often choose a locker right by another person when the rest of the room is empty.

In a restaurant, they will sit right behind you, even though there is no one else in the place. It drives me crazy personally, but a lot less than when another farang is doing it.

If we are generalising on Asians here

Actually we are generalizing about Thais.

[saengsureeya]

Either way, hardly anyone outside the UK has much idea about queuing ............

Yeah right...............dream on!

Sorry if I wrote this before my turn.

[Fookhaht]

I don't discount your direct observations at all--I just think it has a bit more of a cynical slant. Your premise still doesn't explain why the younger man jumped the queue in the OP's post, and why students continually crowd in front of the "Ajarn" at the check-out counter. That turns the "hierarchy-explains-all" hypothesis on its head.

This presumes that "Ajarn' is further up the pecking order than the students - I've seen little evidence to confirm this.

Your presumption is exactly correct.

I see it every week, sometimes multiple times. I am an "Ajarn" on a campus of 45,000 students. Plenty of instances, to verify they'll even defy social hierarchy to fill that irresistible space.

Perhaps you assume that as an 'expat Ajarn' your place in the local hierarchy is higher than that appointed you by the students jumping in front of you in the queue. These are Thai university students, they have a sense of entitlement to foster.

As an armchair analyst, you continue to assume too much. As an on-the-scene observer, my "hierarchy" is just under the Thai professors at this Uni.

[poanoi]

You stand in queue 1% of your life

[softgeorge]

Happens in places like Tesco also, you can have your trolley up next to the counter waiting for room on the belt to start unloading and someone will jump in front. Just last weekend it happened to us got a space on the belt placed the divider thingy at the end of the other customers goods, turn around and started unloading the trolley and the woman behind us moved straight up and started placing her goods on the belt ahead of us then she had the cheek to ask us to move our trolley out of her way. This impressed my wife (Thai) no end and a verbal confrontation errupted and then nothing was getting scanned. Told the wife to leave it alone and let her go through but she said it was extreemly rude and people should not do that. the front end supervisor arrived and we got scanned through ahead of this woman eventually, we had far less items also. Took a long time to calm the missus down and thought she was going to follow the woman to her car and give her what for. Yes when it comes to waiting your turn Thais have no concept of manners or patience.

[WebBangkok]

Never experienced jumping in supermarkets, only people who empty their trolley on the belt and just leave it in the queue because they don't need it because they have 5 items.

I find old people tend to jump queues a lot, happens back home in Sydney a lot with Europeans. Old ladies are the worst.

[Fookhaht]

Never experienced jumping in supermarkets, only people who empty their trolley on the belt and just leave it in the queue because they don't need it because they have 5 items.

I find old people tend to jump queues a lot, happens back home in Sydney a lot with Europeans. Old ladies are the worst.

In orderliness-conscious, and queue-conscious Japan, the little old ladies get away with queue-etiquette murder. No one seems to take offense. The Japanese explanation? "They've paid their dues and have now earned the right to jump in front."

[WebBangkok]

Never experienced jumping in supermarkets, only people who empty their trolley on the belt and just leave it in the queue because they don't need it because they have 5 items.

I find old people tend to jump queues a lot, happens back home in Sydney a lot with Europeans. Old ladies are the worst.

In orderliness-conscious, and queue-conscious Japan, the little old ladies get away with queue-etiquette murder. No one seems to take offense. The Japanese explanation? "They've paid their dues and have now earned the right to jump in front."

lol well that's a good way of looking at it really when you think if it. They have helped build the country and don't have much time left to be standing in a queue. Plus they are old so standing up all the time must be hard on them.....maybe.

[softgeorge]

Never experienced jumping in supermarkets, only people who empty their trolley on the belt and just leave it in the queue because they don't need it because they have 5 items.

I find old people tend to jump queues a lot, happens back home in Sydney a lot with Europeans. Old ladies are the worst.

In orderliness-conscious, and queue-conscious Japan, the little old ladies get away with queue-etiquette murder. No one seems to take offense. The Japanese explanation? "They've paid their dues and have now earned the right to jump in front."

lol well that's a good way of looking at it really when you think if it. They have helped build the country and don't have much time left to be standing in a queue. Plus they are old so standing up all the time must be hard on them.....maybe.

It's old fashioned manners (sadly lost) to stand for an elderly person, hold the door open, help them cross the street and let them go 1st in line. Doubt if this tradition will still be around when I get there. Although I must admit Thais are very respectful when it come to the elderly.

[GuestHouse]

As an armchair analyst, you continue to assume too much. As an on-the-scene observer, my "hierarchy" is just under the Thai professors at this Uni.

But as you contend, those pesky Thais have a habit of slipping into the slightest gap.

[WebBangkok]

I have to admit, I don't have a problem with pretty young ladies slipping there way in front of me in the queue.

[tropo]

I have to admit, I don't have a problem with pretty young ladies slipping there way in front of me in the queue.

I don't really care what they look like - it's a no-no unless they are crippled, blind or extremely old.

[jaideeguy]

same same on the road.......it's a dog eat dog attitude once on the road and you gotta be agressive if you wanna get anywhere.....drive like them and never give a break to one car because not only will you ever get any sign of appreciation, but 10 cars behind will take advantage and join the car in front leaving you holding up traffic behind you.

[chiang mai]

same same on the road.......it's a dog eat dog attitude once on the road and you gotta be agressive if you wanna get anywhere.....drive like them and never give a break to one car because not only will you ever get any sign of appreciation, but 10 cars behind will take advantage and join the car in front leaving you holding up traffic behind you.

Yup indeed!

[samran]

Again, this is one of those 'I must live in a different Thailand' to the people on this thread.

Thai people are pretty good at queuing up. Sure, they don't take it to the anal extreme - a nice long line of people queuing for the bus is something that I noticed in the UK which for me is even a little extreme. If you are expecting that, then forget it, but informal queue's where people keep an eye out on 'who is next' are pretty common.

On the odd occasion that someone blatantly and deliberately slips in line in front of you, you call them out on it. Given the aversion to social embarrassment in Thailand, this usually works. But I can count on one hand in 10 years I've had to do this.

[xthAi76s]

Not sure why some people think queuing is a particularly British trait. The Germans do it just fine. The Japanese do it perhaps even better than the British or at least as good...

Anyway, I just finished reading a book that discussed this type of thing. The book argues that Thais operate in 3 social circles of increasing indifference. They are: family circle, cautious circle and selfish circle.

Take a peek at: http://www.thingsasian.com/stories-photos/2704

From the link above

"For example, why can such an otherwise gentle and non-confrontational people be such aggressive drivers? How can they be so compassionate in certain circumstances and so callous in others? And why do English-speaking Thais in the company of an English-speaking foreigner nevertheless insist on speaking Thai?

The authors argue that the answers to the first two questions depend upon what they call the three circles of Thai social interactions: the Family, Cautious, and Selfish Circles respectively. Basically the list proceeds in ascending order of indifference. The guy cutting you off on the road, or cutting in front of you in a queue, calculates that he will probably never encounter you again and can therefore afford to be assertive."