Noppadon: Peace Proposal Was My Idea, It Has Nothing To Do With Thaksin

[hellodolly]

Kwanchai Praipana, a red-shirt leader in Udon Thani, said he would arrange for the ordination of 999 red shirts at Sanam Luang this month in honour of His Majesty the King and in the hope that Thaksin will be granted a royal pardon.

ORDINATION.... off 999 Red Shirts??

They think they are a religion now.

The Cult of Thaksin takes another Great Leap Forward.

Goes perfectly with the Red Temples up north, with pictures of Thaksin prominent, and none of HRM or revered monks on display.

Oh stop being such a drama queen.

I was lucky enough to go to a gathering (impromptu party) in a self proclaimed red village south of Chiang Mai not long ago. I say 'lucky enough' because it gave me the opportunity to actually gain knowledge and experience of such places instead of making up stereotyped hysteria to fill the gaps in my understanding as you have done in your post.

It was a typical group of villagers - around 10 friends and family members who've all known each other since childhood. The talk was of premier league football and joking around at each other's expense. 2 were ex-army, and one was still doing his 2 years service.

Taking a quick look inside the house, I can't remember seeing any pictures of Thaksin although I wouldn't have been at all surprised if there were and I missed them. What there was in obvious abundance though were images of the King and several presumably famous old monks. Again, it seemed perfectly ordinary to me.

Back outside it turned out that 2 of the party were fairly staunch yellow-shirt supporters. I saw them having heated discussion with others in the group which at no point got rowdy or ill tempered. It seemed people could say what they wanted perfectly easily without intimidation and when all was said and done the drinking and joking continued.

There were a couple of jokes levelled at the 2 yellows there - like 'oh he's yellow shirt, no good' etc etc but it was always in jest and similar to other comments like 'he like Manchester United, he no good'. I had asked earlier about intimidation of yellows in a red village and was laughed at.

So all I can say is that the red shirt village I went to was basically the same in essence to any other rural Thai village I've ever been to.

If those people are the terrorists you and your red shirt-hating buddies on this forum think they are, perhaps you need to tell them instead of a bunch of disconnected farangs on a web board. Thinking about it though, maybe a bunch of disconnected farangs is actually your best audience - how could they disagree with you?

From where I was sitting, these reds (and a couple of yellows) in this red shirt village looked uncannily like very normal, fair minded and light hearted people just getting on with their lives. Which by the way seems a much more dignified pursuit than habitually spouting other people's blind rhetoric on an anonymous web forum.

What village was it you went to and how did they get the distinction of being a red shirt village.

I thought that they were all in the north east.

I am quite aware of the fact that many villages have many red shirt supporters but not that a red shirt village had yellow shirts in it.

Maybe I am reading the wrong thing into the term red shirt village.

Also what has all this got to do with 999 red shirts being ordained.

Is this a new religion with Thaksin as the head.

The First Church Of Corruption, Greed And Money.

[metisdead]

A post with messed up quote tags has been removed. Learn to use the Multiquote function or use the Insert quotation feature when replying to certain parts of a post when the maximum nested quotes has been reached.

[animatic]

There may be exceptions but most Thais seem to be tiring of divisive politics.

Unfortunately many Red Shirt supporters here can't seem to grasp that the Red Village movement is one of those divisive politics.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for the necessity or rationale of this "Red Villages"; I mean, one that doesn't cast the Red Shirt movement on a bad light anyway.

if you are trying to spread neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint it fits perfectly to plan. Of course they are not stating it as such and allowing themselves to be seen as' puppets of a charismatic leader' when that is only a temporary artifice. But when it comes time to change leadership one must wonder who will 'drop in, with clean hands' and take over a well constructed umbrella of indoctrinated people? If you have been waiting 30-40 years for this what's another 5 to actually pull it off?

What exactly is wrong with "neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint" if that is what a majority of the electorate want ???

Seems to be working pretty well for the PRC, does it not ??

Because they don't understand it in practice. It never YET has worked out as the instigators intended, and many innocents or other credulous souls ALWAYS have suffered, in every version so far on this planet.

That's why.

[AleG]

What exactly is wrong with "neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint" if that is what a majority of the electorate want ???

Seems to be working pretty well for the PRC, does it not ??

Is it what the majority of the electorate want?

I don't think so, not for one minute.

I am just curious about animatics frequent references to the Thaksin lot following some sort of communistic agenda and the bad guys seemingly being about to tip Thailand into the communist abyss.

If Thaksin and the red shirts ( whatever that means ) are communists, my mothers the pope.

Over to you animatic ( whatever that means )

Thaksin is not, obviously, a communist. However many Red Shirt leaders are (or had been); undoubtedly they must consider it an alliance of convenience to further their goals, either hoping to ditch Thaksin when they have established a sufficiently stronghold of Thailand's political landscape or at least gain a measure of power and control that they haven't been able to secure with their brand of politics.

As for the question "What exactly is wrong with "neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint?" if that is what a majority of the electorate want ?" What's wrong with it can be found in any history book dealing with Mao's China. A quick synopsis: it wasn't nice and it wasn't democratic.

[animatic]

quote name='bigbamboo' timestamp='1323765899' post='4909517'

There may be exceptions but most Thais seem to be tiring of divisive politics.

[/quote]

Unfortunately many Red Shirt supporters here can't seem to grasp that the Red Village movement is one of those divisive politics.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for the necessity or rationale of this "Red Villages"; I mean, one that doesn't cast the Red Shirt movement on a bad light anyway.

if you are trying to spread neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint it fits perfectly to plan. Of course they are not stating it as such and allowing themselves to be seen as' puppets of a charismatic leader' when that is only a temporary artifice. But when it comes time to change leadership one must wonder who will 'drop in, with clean hands' and take over a well constructed umbrella of indoctrinated people? If you have been waiting 30-40 years for this what's another 5 to actually pull it off?

What exactly is wrong with "neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint" if that is what a majority of the electorate want ???

Seems to be working pretty well for the PRC, does it not ??

I don't think there is any "neo-communism" that fits on the Maoist blueprint. Today's "neo-communism" is just capitalism with a central control and command structure. Communism as a "competitive advantage" if you will. I think you'll find those near the center of power love the hell out of it and those a little further out aren't part of the electorate that matters.

Clearly not grasping the point.

OK Thaksin put them in motion for his own reasons.

Of course he and most of his cronies are not communists.

But he is the charismatic leader with funds they needed to cleave to.

He has inadvertently allowed this to take on a life of his own,

what that turns into is more of a worry than Thaksins coming Cleptocracy.

They have no problem reaching their long sought goals, because a foolish demagogue hitched them to his wagon for more 'boots on the ground' for his game plan. They are pragmatically riding him to his doom, if they get lucky.

They know he won't last long, in the big picture, and they get THEIR OWN network and indoctrination set up under HIS umbrella in the icy cold bargain of working with him for a spell.

And then when the time is right it's THEIRS TO USE.

Iannabirth, your comment on China's version of 'Capitalism in Communist Clothing' is inadvertently trenchant. It hasn't worked, but the 'Great Leap Forward' was a horror akin to Pol Pot and Khmer Rouge, and these same methods were used to infiltrate BOTH societies to gain a network and foot hold enough to rise up. The PRC has adopted Capitalism big time and left the worst of the control mechanism in place to shackle the masses with.

If you have read ANY modern history of the last century you SHOULD understand the myth versus the reality.

Some still to this day don't understand....

some of those seem to by Thai MP's from Thaksins handiwork.

But there is another shoe and it's waiting to drop.

Thaksin has undone 50 years of keeping this threat at bay.

And this is not to be confused with Socialism in a Democracy,

nor with social safety nets and equality of incomes.

Edited December 13, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

What exactly is wrong with "neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint" if that is what a majority of the electorate want ???

Seems to be working pretty well for the PRC, does it not ??

Is it what the majority of the electorate want?

I don't think so, not for one minute.

I am just curious about animatics frequent references to the Thaksin lot following some sort of communistic agenda and the bad guys seemingly being about to tip Thailand into the communist abyss.

If Thaksin and the red shirts ( whatever that means ) are communists, my mothers the pope.

Over to you animatic ( whatever that means )

Thaksin is not, obviously, a communist. However many Red Shirt leaders are (or had been); undoubtedly they must consider it an alliance of convenience to further their goals, either hoping to ditch Thaksin when they have established a sufficiently stronghold of Thailand's political landscape or at least gain a measure of power and control that they haven't been able to secure with their brand of politics.

As for the question "What exactly is wrong with "neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint?" if that is what a majority of the electorate want ?" What's wrong with it can be found in any history book dealing with Mao's China. A quick synopsis: it wasn't nice and it wasn't democratic.

Mr. AleG GET'S IT!

" it wasn't nice and it wasn't democratic" and it DIDN'T WORK.

[lannarebirth]

if you are trying to spread neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint it fits perfectly to plan. Of course they are not stating it as such and allowing themselves to be seen as' puppets of a charismatic leader' when that is only a temporary artifice. But when it comes time to change leadership one must wonder who will 'drop in, with clean hands' and take over a well constructed umbrella of indoctrinated people? If you have been waiting 30-40 years for this what's another 5 to actually pull it off?

What exactly is wrong with "neo-communism on the Maoist blueprint" if that is what a majority of the electorate want ???

Seems to be working pretty well for the PRC, does it not ??

I don't think there is any "neo-communism" that fits on the Maoist blueprint. Today's "neo-communism" is just capitalism with a central control and command structure. Communism as a "competitive advantage" if you will. I think you'll find those near the center of power love the hell out of it and those a little further out aren't part of the electorate that matters.

Clearly not grasping the point.

OK Thaksin put them in motion for his own reasons.

Of course he and most of his cronies are not communists.

But he is the charismatic leader with funds they needed to cleave to.

He has inadvertently allowed this to take on a life of his own,

what that turns into is more of a worry than Thaksins coming Cleptocracy.

They have no problem reaching their long sought goals, because a foolish demagogue hitched them to his wagon for more 'boots on the ground' for his game plan. They are pragmatically riding him to his doom, if they get lucky.

They know he won't last long, in the big picture, and they get THEIR OWN network and indoctrination set up under HIS umbrella in the icy cold bargain of working with him for a spell.

And then when the time is right it's THEIRS TO USE.

Iannabirth, your comment on China's version of 'Capitalism in Communist Clothing' is inadvertently trenchant. It hasn't worked, but the 'Great Leap Forward' was a horror akin to Pol Pot and Khmer Rouge, and these same methods were used to infiltrate BOTH societies to gain a network and foot hold enough to rise up. The PRC has adopted Capitalism big time and left the worst of the control mechanism in place to shackle the masses with.

If you have read ANY modern history of the last century you SHOULD understand the myth versus the reality.

Some still to this day don't understand....

some of those seem to by Thai MP's from Thaksins handiwork.

But there is another shoe and it's waiting to drop.

Thaksin has undone 50 years of keeping this threat at bay.

And this is not to be confused with Socialism in a Democracy,

nor with social safety nets and equality of incomes.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir here. I apologize if that wasn't apparent. When i was talking about China using communism as a competitive advantage I meant it. Just like slave owners could do. Most civil societies hopefully would n't trade with them though. For some reason China gets to slide on all that. probably because westerners own a great deal of the factories there.

Edited December 13, 2011 by lannarebirth

[animatic]

Please keep singing.

[hanuman1]

Kwanchai Praipana, a red-shirt leader in Udon Thani, said he would arrange for the ordination of 999 red shirts at Sanam Luang this month in honour of His Majesty the King and in the hope that Thaksin will be granted a royal pardon.

ORDINATION.... off 999 Red Shirts??

They think they are a religion now.

The Cult of Thaksin takes another Great Leap Forward.

Goes perfectly with the Red Temples up north, with pictures of Thaksin prominent, and none of HRM or revered monks on display.

Oh stop being such a drama queen.

I was lucky enough to go to a gathering (impromptu party) in a self proclaimed red village south of Chiang Mai not long ago. I say 'lucky enough' because it gave me the opportunity to actually gain knowledge and experience of such places instead of making up stereotyped hysteria to fill the gaps in my understanding as you have done in your post.

It was a typical group of villagers - around 10 friends and family members who've all known each other since childhood. The talk was of premier league football and joking around at each other's expense. 2 were ex-army, and one was still doing his 2 years service.

Taking a quick look inside the house, I can't remember seeing any pictures of Thaksin although I wouldn't have been at all surprised if there were and I missed them. What there was in obvious abundance though were images of the King and several presumably famous old monks. Again, it seemed perfectly ordinary to me.

Back outside it turned out that 2 of the party were fairly staunch yellow-shirt supporters. I saw them having heated discussion with others in the group which at no point got rowdy or ill tempered. It seemed people could say what they wanted perfectly easily without intimidation and when all was said and done the drinking and joking continued.

There were a couple of jokes levelled at the 2 yellows there - like 'oh he's yellow shirt, no good' etc etc but it was always in jest and similar to other comments like 'he like Manchester United, he no good'. I had asked earlier about intimidation of yellows in a red village and was laughed at.

So all I can say is that the red shirt village I went to was basically the same in essence to any other rural Thai village I've ever been to.

If those people are the terrorists you and your red shirt-hating buddies on this forum think they are, perhaps you need to tell them instead of a bunch of disconnected farangs on a web board. Thinking about it though, maybe a bunch of disconnected farangs is actually your best audience - how could they disagree with you?

From where I was sitting, these reds (and a couple of yellows) in this red shirt village looked uncannily like very normal, fair minded and light hearted people just getting on with their lives. Which by the way seems a much more dignified pursuit than habitually spouting other people's blind rhetoric on an anonymous web forum.

What village was it you went to and how did they get the distinction of being a red shirt village.

I thought that they were all in the north east.

I am quite aware of the fact that many villages have many red shirt supporters but not that a red shirt village had yellow shirts in it.

Maybe I am reading the wrong thing into the term red shirt village.

Also what has all this got to do with 999 red shirts being ordained.

Is this a new religion with Thaksin as the head.

The First Church Of Corruption, Greed And Money.

It was Baan Krang, about 25 Km south of CM some distance off the main highway. I understand they had some kind of ceremony a few days earlier and now considered themselves a red village.

I think you are indeed reading the wrong thing into the term red village. They are not populated by militias and they are not 'no go' areas to anyone as far as I could tell. At least this one wasn't. The only reason I knew it was a red village at all was because of a large banner over the road from when the ceremony took place earlier in the week, and because I was later told as much.

It's just the same old people living there as have lived there for years and years. They didn't suddenly turn into a bunch of militants and I just can't believe how people can think that that can happen so easily to essentially right-minded people.

[anterian]

Hanuman, no matter how well we blend in, I wonder if we create an "observer effect", would topic conversations be the same if we were not there? Or are red villages more politically aware, less parochial?

Without a doubt anterian.

The Schrodingers Cat paradox.

If you look in the box to check the cat,

the cat changes because you looked at it.

We have seen here several picture sets of

'Red Temples centering on the cult of Thaksin'

in some villages that are EXACTLY as I described.

And then there's your ad hominem comment at me.

That wasn't drama, that was irony... try and keep up.

And on to your false assumption, leading to an invalid argument, that your village visited, represents all red villages (without a hypothetical cat in sight). Maybe you are the victim of 'Dancing Bears' who brought to a 'Potemkin Village', and sold you the 'lightly rouged' cover story, that they want you and us to hear of.

Just because the village you visited isn't that way, or hid that aspect from you, doesn't invalidate the pictures and their description,based on their own Thai captions.

You seem confused in your reply, whilst my comment was on the observer effect, the "ad hominem" comment was not from me, neither did I visit any village, red or rainbow coloured. I never make assumptions, I make observations, you however seem fond of assumptions.

[animatic]

Hanuman, no matter how well we blend in, I wonder if we create an "observer effect", would topic conversations be the same if we were not there? Or are red villages more politically aware, less parochial?

Without a doubt anterian.

The Schrodingers Cat paradox.

If you look in the box to check the cat,

the cat changes because you looked at it.

We have seen here several picture sets of

'Red Temples centering on the cult of Thaksin'

in some villages that are EXACTLY as I described.

And then there's your ad hominem comment at me.

That wasn't drama, that was irony... try and keep up.

And on to your false assumption, leading to an invalid argument, that your village visited, represents all red villages (without a hypothetical cat in sight). Maybe you are the victim of 'Dancing Bears' who brought to a 'Potemkin Village', and sold you the 'lightly rouged' cover story, that they want you and us to hear of.

Just because the village you visited isn't that way, or hid that aspect from you, doesn't invalidate the pictures and their description,based on their own Thai captions.

You seem confused in your reply, whilst my comment was on the observer effect, the "ad hominem" comment was not from me, neither did I visit any village, red or rainbow coloured. I never make assumptions, I make observations, you however seem fond of assumptions.

A,

H is also in the quote so I am responding to both, hominum

but with a large space between the different comments.

You had made no ad homimun comment at me, all H's work,

so I didn't think you would think I meant you, when H had done so above.

Sorry for any confusion. It's been a long sleep deprived week.

Edited December 14, 2011 by animatic