Many Injured As Train Hits 9 Cars At Bangkok's Asoke Rail Crossing

[SAffer]

Because it is the way it works in the city. Cars stop on tracks, and it is very hard to avoid.

People also get stuck in any other intersection.

Is it really hard to avoid? No, it isn't!

It's just because the super selfish drivers/people here! Every f..ing time they block every intersection where possible. If they just only let a 2 meter space between them and the car in front, other people can get through. But noooo, that would mean that I need to let go someone first is it!

If you are driving in BKK I think you will agree with me. Maybe there are some other countries where it's more worse, but most of the traffic problems getting worser due to the selfish people here. If you come from an U-turn or whatever it's difficult to get in the moving line. They just won't let anyone get in. As a reaction you need to up your agressive driving skills in order to get your car in the moving line, which is not helping in the total picture.

Ever noticed how Thais parking their cars in a parking lot? Do they follow the white arrows? No, they don't. They will just drive anywhere it pleases them. And if they are on their wrong way and another car is coming their direction, it's: cotood krab (I'm sorry). And they expect that is enough and it makes it ok. Well, Thai people if you are reading this. It's NOT ok! Just follow the rules and white lines. Is that so hard to do? I know, if you do it might happen that someone else get a parking spot first. We can't let that happen, can we??? Just f...ing grow up, will you!

Can you make the habits of Thai drivers better? Yes, you can, but that requires law-enforcement (ENFORCEMENT!)

So probably this situation will not change in the coming hunderd years here

Was this off-topic? I don't think so. The accident just happened, because the selfish driving here, nothing else. Don't tell me that the situation of stopping on the tracks is un-avoidable, because it's not ok. If everybody follow the law, lines and give way to other people, it would improve the situation tremendously. No, the traffic jams will not be solved, but it will help a lot with other traffic, which then can follow their way in stead of being blocked all the way.

I'll leave it at this for now. And don't get me started about the total chaos when I drove back to my BKK home end last month!!! It took me more than 5 hours to cover the stretch from Tammasat University to the beginning of the elevated tollway. It was total chaos and no police in sight to control what so-ever. By the way, where were the police during the floods anyway? Ok, that's another topic.

Above all is besides the fact (yes, fact!) that 98% of all Thai people can't drive/park properly!

A clearly annoyed driver!

+1

[LuckyLew]

Thailand - The hub of uneducated drivers

Thailand - The hub of needless and sad road accidents

Thailand - The hub of bus drivers falling asleep at the wheel

[xavierr]

The railway system in Thailand needs a total overhaul. Not only the trains themselves, the lines and the safety system, barriers, warning systems, etc. are not up to standard.

[Xangsamhua]

Trains are not normally held responsible for accidents with vehicles at crossings. A train is very difficult to stop.

I try to make sure I can get over the tracks, but that's not always possible in BKK traffic.

Here's how they do it in Bangladesh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTWn2mmploI

[InterestedObserver]

This accident is 100% the error of the train company.

Since when do vehicles have right-of-way on railroad tracks?

[anon467367354]

The police is always quick to judge the train driver, while they should blame their own immense and unimaginable incompetence. Even a 3 year old child would not park on a railroad not even for a few seconds. Bangkok people are used to very slow driving trains, that does not mean that they have a own responsibility to give the police or any other the finger. If a traffic light is red, you stay off the railroad. If police demand you do that. You come out of the car., Record it on your phone and post the idiocy on the internet while receiving the fine. Never listen to a Thai policeman. It could get you killed.

quick to judge the train operator because they have no control over them. To say the fault lies somewhere else would be an admission of not doing their job.

"The railway system in Thailand needs a total overhaul. Not only the trains themselves, the lines and the safety system, barriers, warning systems, etc. are not up to standard. " The people's way of thinking needs to be overhauled, you don't need a system to know not to "park" on train tracks. Overhauling the system would mean the police doing an honest days work, not infrastructure IMO

warning people that "parking" on train tracks may result in getting hit by a train is like warning people that taking sleeping pills may cause drowsiness. WARNING! putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger may result in injury.

[BWPattaya]

If the accident happened during evening hours, why was the "railway official" waving a red flag and not a red lamp? Why were cars "parked" (stopped) on railway tracks when the warning lights were flashing? Silly questions of course. T.I.T.

However these accidents also happen in other countries with supposedly more sophisticated warning and gate systems.

I hope the train driver is OK and also the idiots in their cars, stopped on the tracks, who were injured.

Have you ever been to that intersection? There are cars stopped on the tracks 90% of the day.

Usually, the police at Petchaburi / Asoke intersection let the lights run to clear the traffic enough to get the traffic off the tracks and the gates across. They must have been asleep.

This is a waiting disaster in Pattaya too. Soi Know Noi to Sukhumvit

I agree totally, I have been expecting this to happen on Soi Khow Noi. Even as a pedestrian I waited until the train had gone past when the barriers were down but motorcyclists were still going around the barrier.

[pointoffew]

This is a mean-spirited response to this tragedy.

"Police said due to heavy traffic congestion in the area, cars are often stuck on the rail crossing during the red light."

Tells you something - admit: we knew for long - about the police....

Cars DON'T get stuck on the rail crossing "due to heavy traffic congestion" but due to a total lack of brains and/or manners.

Call it unrivalled selfishness, if you will.

Somnamna indeed.

Didn't mean to be mean - but meant every word I wrote.

Edited December 15, 2011 by pointoffew

[nong38]

We need to stop assuming that things here are the same as they are in the West. In the UK if you hear the sirens/bells telling you a train is coming, you get the HELL away from the tracks, as the trains usually go past at over 60mph (used to be 90mph, and at smaller crossings in the middle of nowhere they would not slow down at all and go past at 125mph), and they ain't stopping! Also, the trains tend not to have crossings at busy traffic junctions, for safety reasons.

However, returning to Thailand, it is very common at a busy junction with a railway crossing over it, for traffic to get stuck on the tracks - and they don't get much busier than the junction at Asok/Phetchaburi, where there are cars stopped on the tracks almost constantly during busy hours.

The train is supposed to stop and wait as the cars get out of the way (it can hardly go around the cars - the only control its driver has, is over its speed). That's what the guy with the torch and red flag does at the junction - tells the driver of the train to stop or go.

In this case the guy with the flag was waving frantically telling the train to stop - and people here are blaming the cars?

I was at the junction as they were still clearing the line last night, about an hour after the incident. More telling to me was that the song-taew driver I spoke to said that the train driver was probably drunk. If that were the case, would people here still blame the cars' drivers?

A song theaw driver said the train driver was probaly drunk, brilliant quote, so that makes it all ok for drivers to be parked on railway line and not look out for trains and if they get hit its not their fault, well you know its their life, its up to them,

This crossing needs better safety neasures than currently in place.

But please dont blame the driver on the word of a bus driver who just happened to turn up with a pearl of wisdom.

[Beechboy]

I thought that trains had 'right of way' at crossings.

If I were to be stuck on a track in a car with red lights flahing I would need some toilet paper. Not my Buddha.

It seem that a more serious incident could have occurred here.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Beechboy

[witsawakorn]

so how much time the car drivers saved now by entering such a dangerous spot? I dont think that the

traindriver is to blame here, must be terrible enough for him too having so many ppl killed

RIP ....and hopefully we dont have to read the same story next week again, same place same accident....

Nobody was killed

[whybother]

The only way to stop all this tragedy is to have proper 'closing gates' and not barriers. Such gates should be opened and closed by a single operator who knows when trains are coming, preferably up to five minutes before they arrive, as was standard practice in the UK for many years. Once these gates are closed to road users they cannot get onto the tracks in any way other than by demolishing the gates. There are two parties responsible for this 'accident'. The Railway company should lobby the Government for the appropriate funds to build proper crossing gates to protect the public, who's attitude is fairly often suicidal in its approach to driving in general, and the Government itself that has a fundemental responsibility to protect its citizens. You certainly cannot blame the train driver who is trying to control a train of up to 600 tons, in the dark, and is totally reliant on the correct signaling procedures for the safety of his train and its passengers. Some blame can be attached to the road users as they often act in a childlike manner in this country, but prevention is the best way to deal with such situations.

The only thing gates will do is close on the cars "parked" on the crossing. Cars can sit on this crossing for up to 10 minutes.

[whybother]

As the posters here that have actually gone through that intersection have said, this rail line is little used and there is no place for an overpass anyway. Suggesting such only highlights never having been there.

Due to the little use of the track and almost constant congestion of the intersection, the vehicles actually have the right of way and when a train does come, it almost always has to stop and let the vehicles clear the track before proceeding, something the drivers have become accustomed to happening.

In most cases, when a train comes, there is not time for the intersection to clear before the train, even traveling at walking speed as it does in that area, so it eases to a stop and waits. If the traffic police are manually controlling the light, they will turn the signal green out of sequence to clear the intersection, but even that can take several minutes to accomplish.

It is not what one would consider safe, but in fact it is a system that has worked for many, many years and this is one for the few instances where circumstances were unfavorable and an accident happened. If one were to do a risk assessment and take how many vehicles go through the intersection every day versus how many accidents have happened, it would score fairly low in the risk rating.

If you have never driven through that intersection at 6:00PM then you are not qualified to make any comment on who is at fault and are just using this as an excuse to make the usual Thai drivers rant.

TH

+1

[mortenaa]

Seems like some people posting here don't have a clue on how the traffic situation is on this road. I drove home this route myself yesterday. It took me about 1,5 hour getting 3km. I was was stuck just before the railway crossing for about 20 minutes, along with a lot of cars on the crossing itself. Its 4 lines in both directions. hundreds of cars bumper to bumper with no chance of moving anywhere. I was actually thinking about what happens if a train was coming. This has nothing to with driver education, experience or whatever. Its a sad accident in dead-locked traffic situation.

[SAffer]

As the posters here that have actually gone through that intersection have said, this rail line is little used and there is no place for an overpass anyway. Suggesting such only highlights never having been there.

Due to the little use of the track and almost constant congestion of the intersection, the vehicles actually have the right of way and when a train does come, it almost always has to stop and let the vehicles clear the track before proceeding, something the drivers have become accustomed to happening.

In most cases, when a train comes, there is not time for the intersection to clear before the train, even traveling at walking speed as it does in that area, so it eases to a stop and waits. If the traffic police are manually controlling the light, they will turn the signal green out of sequence to clear the intersection, but even that can take several minutes to accomplish.

It is not what one would consider safe, but in fact it is a system that has worked for many, many years and this is one for the few instances where circumstances were unfavorable and an accident happened. If one were to do a risk assessment and take how many vehicles go through the intersection every day versus how many accidents have happened, it would score fairly low in the risk rating.

If you have never driven through that intersection at 6:00PM then you are not qualified to make any comment on who is at fault and are just using this as an excuse to make the usual Thai drivers rant.

TH

What about if we have used that intersection at 6pm? Can we still point out the insanity of Thai drivers then?

The biggest problem is that you as an individual driver can't stop at the correct point (before the tracks), because no-one else understands what you are doing, or the correctness of it, so they get all impatient and 'push' you to close the gap.

The same culture exists at all intersections, no gap is left, even when a large yellow cross is painted to indicate that the area should be clear.

Ever watch a Zebra crossing in Thailand???

I have used the junction in question at all times of the day... but other posters are still correct to criticize Thai driving culture, it is absolutely horrifying.

[thaihome]

This accident is 100% the error of the train company.

Since when do vehicles have right-of-way on railroad tracks?

At that crossing, it is impractical for vehicles to keep the crossing clear due to congestion so the train is expected to be able to stop in time to allow the vehicles clear the intersection.

TH

[MaiChai]

Its a cultural point here. The train driver gives way to the pooyai in the car? Anyone who owns a car must be more important than the lowly person driving the train?

[mortenaa]

Didn't mean to be mean - but meant every word I wrote.

You show amazing abilities to understand the situation. They should have put you in charge of traffic management!

[SAffer]

Its a cultural point here. The train driver gives way to the pooyai in the car? Anyone who owns a car must be more important than the lowly person driving the train?

Yes, that's it.

[SAffer]

This accident is 100% the error of the train company.

Since when do vehicles have right-of-way on railroad tracks?

At that crossing, it is impractical for vehicles to keep the crossing clear due to congestion so the train is expected to be able to stop in time to allow the vehicles clear the intersection.

TH

Why impractical??

Absurd to use Thai logic here.

Do you really think congestion is eased by blocking the level crossing??

And do you have any idea how long it takes a train to stop?

Get real; there is a reason for the internationally recognised rule, don't stop on a level crossing!

[Reasonableman]

Perhaps its more to do with care and respect for other human lives, and wanting to avoid killing people.

Its a cultural point here. The train driver gives way to the pooyai in the car? Anyone who owns a car must be more important than the lowly person driving the train?

Yes, that's it.

[4.real]

Maybe there should be a guy with a red flag walking in front of every train?

On the Butterworth sprinter/ express/special express the train could not keep up with the walker.

[F4UCorsair]

I'm with you sfm, it's garbage, and while drivers look no further ahead than their own grille, then it won't get better. I never enter an intersection/rail crossing unless I'm assured of being able to clear it and not be left standing there like a stale bottle of Chang. Rude, arrogant, self centered, selfish and ignorant drivers caused this. I call them 'me firsters' and they would walk all over you to achieve their own selfish aims. They could never be relied on to act decently in an emergency such as an evacuation from an aircraft. Pricks!!

[SAffer]

Perhaps its more to do with care and respect for other human lives, and wanting to avoid killing people.

Its a cultural point here. The train driver gives way to the pooyai in the car? Anyone who owns a car must be more important than the lowly person driving the train?

Yes, that's it.

As opposed to the West where we are so careless of lives that we try to keep people off the tracks.

Thai logic again.

Did you do your PhD here?

[thaihome]

... but other posters are still correct to criticize Thai driving culture, it is absolutely horrifying.

Horrifying is a bit strong. It is different and they certainly need much better enforcement of the traffic laws and driver education. But “horrifying”? I find drivers in Paris and Rome horrifying , to say nothing of India, China or Egypt. Thais are amateurs compared to those places.

That intersection has a procedure in place that has the trains stopping if the intersection is not cleared when they get there. I have seen trains waiting for the vehicles to clear out several times. No, that is not often seen in the West, but for this intersection it is the way it is done and the train drivers know it. The blame likely lies with the brakes on the train.

TH

[Reasonableman]

I didn't realise we were having an imperfect East versus superior West debate here. Relax and have another beer. This is Thailand, get used to it.

Perhaps its more to do with care and respect for other human lives, and wanting to avoid killing people.

Its a cultural point here. The train driver gives way to the pooyai in the car? Anyone who owns a car must be more important than the lowly person driving the train?

Yes, that's it.

As opposed to the West where we are so careless of lives that we try to keep people off the tracks.

Thai logic again.

Did you do your PhD here?

[SAffer]

... but other posters are still correct to criticize Thai driving culture, it is absolutely horrifying.

Horrifying is a bit strong. It is different and they certainly need much better enforcement of the traffic laws and driver education. But "horrifying"? I find drivers in Paris and Rome horrifying , to say nothing of India, China or Egypt. Thais are amateurs compared to those places.

That intersection has a procedure in place that has the trains stopping if the intersection is not cleared when they get there. I have seen trains waiting for the vehicles to clear out several times. No, that is not often seen in the West, but for this intersection it is the way it is done and the train drivers know it. The blame likely lies with the brakes on the train.

TH

If anything 'Horrifying' is an understatement. It doesn't mean that no other countries have bad drivers... and to me Asia in general is pretty bad... as is Africa. I use the roads everyday (drive myself for the past 5 years), it is Horrifying to me.

Ever watch old ladies try to cross at a Zebra crossing? Ever stop at a red light only to have all the cars nearly smash into you because apparently no-one stops at that specific light?

Thais have no following distance.

Seeing an Ambulance to to get sick people to hospital in this city is HORRIFYING, I am sickened by the Thais attitude once they are behind a wheel.

So uncivilised for such a civil society.

[mortenaa]

What about if we have used that intersection at 6pm? Can we still point out the insanity of Thai drivers then?

The biggest problem is that you as an individual driver can't stop at the correct point (before the tracks), because no-one else understands what you are doing, or the correctness of it, so they get all impatient and 'push' you to close the gap.

The same culture exists at all intersections, no gap is left, even when a large yellow cross is painted to indicate that the area should be clear.

Ever watch a Zebra crossing in Thailand???

I have used the junction in question at all times of the day... but other posters are still correct to criticize Thai driving culture, it is absolutely horrifying.

I think the Thai driving culture is not that bad compared to many other countries I have been in. The Thai drivers adapt to the situation that its way too many cars on the road.

And why would stop before the crossing when you are supposed to go? Its like stopping on a green light in an intersection, because you are not sure if you can make it over before the lights turn red..

[thaihome]

This accident is 100% the error of the train company.

Since when do vehicles have right-of-way on railroad tracks?

At that crossing, it is impractical for vehicles to keep the crossing clear due to congestion so the train is expected to be able to stop in time to allow the vehicles clear the intersection.

TH

Why impractical??

Absurd to use Thai logic here.

Do you really think congestion is eased by blocking the level crossing??

And do you have any idea how long it takes a train to stop?

Get real; there is a reason for the internationally recognised rule, don't stop on a level crossing!

Yes, congestiong is eased by blocking the crossing. If cars did not do that, they tail end of the line would back into Khampheang Phet 7 Road causing even worse traffic.

Just so people understand what this crossing looks like, here a screen shot from Google. The railtracks run under the Airport Link, just a few meters from the intersection with Khampheang Phet 7 and a short ways from the Petchburi Road intersection. The traffic looks like this just about all the time

TH

[moskito]

We need to stop assuming that things here are the same as they are in the West. In the UK if you hear the sirens/bells telling you a train is coming, you get the HELL away from the tracks, as the trains usually go past at over 60mph (used to be 90mph, and at smaller crossings in the middle of nowhere they would not slow down at all and go past at 125mph), and they ain't stopping! Also, the trains tend not to have crossings at busy traffic junctions, for safety reasons.

However, returning to Thailand, it is very common at a busy junction with a railway crossing over it, for traffic to get stuck on the tracks - and they don't get much busier than the junction at Asok/Phetchaburi, where there are cars stopped on the tracks almost constantly during busy hours.

The train is supposed to stop and wait as the cars get out of the way (it can hardly go around the cars - the only control its driver has, is over its speed). That's what the guy with the torch and red flag does at the junction - tells the driver of the train to stop or go.

In this case the guy with the flag was waving frantically telling the train to stop - and people here are blaming the cars?

I was at the junction as they were still clearing the line last night, about an hour after the incident. More telling to me was that the song-taew driver I spoke to said that the train driver was probably drunk. If that were the case, would people here still blame the cars' drivers?

Yes, because the driving rules are clear; no stopping on a railway line.

The other posters are right.

Best Post so far from SSW, he started with: ".....We need to stop assuming..." and finishes with: "....the train driver was probably drunk...." :jap:

thx btw, I hope nobody will die in hospital