Thailand Gives Ex-PM Thaksin Passport Back: Govt

[473geo]

These two persons are not the same. k. Thaksin is a convict, a criminal on the run, k. Suthep is not. What I may or may not think of any of these two has nothing to do with it. It's a legal matter. So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under, whereas k. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his assurance to return immediately after the Games.

Any other 'simple' questions somewhat related to the topic you can think of ?

I guess it boils down to the trial and the validity of the conviction, discussed ad nauseam here, accepted by some as politically motivated, by others as sound....reasonable doubt? Give the man a passport

Edited September 15, 2012 by 473geo

[nidieunimaitre]

Rubi,

The Thai electorate seems to think differently.

Who are you to tell them they are wrong?

Power emanates from the people, not from judges.

Edited September 15, 2012 by nidieunimaitre

[Thaddeus]

I will never understand the obsession of TV Forum members with that man.

What is so special about him?

If he didn't keep drawing attention to himself, there is nothing special about him, his main fault is that when he does draw attention to himself, a few more people realise that there is nothing special about him.

[rubl]

These two persons are not the same. k. Thaksin is a convict, a criminal on the run, k. Suthep is not. What I may or may not think of any of these two has nothing to do with it. It's a legal matter. So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under, whereas k. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his assurance to return immediately after the Games.

Any other 'simple' questions somewhat related to the topic you can think of ?

I guess it boils down to the trial and the validity of the conviction, discussed ad nauseam here, accepted by some as politically motivated, by others as sound....reasonable doubt? Give the man a passport

Terribly sorry, dear geo, but that's plain and utter BS.

K. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his word. As simple as that. Even in Britain that's considered ungentlemanly, not done, no cricket, as it were.

Now please excuse me, at 2:2-AM I feel a need to distance myself from worthy members, fools and other idiots to start my well deserved nightly rest. Tomorrow, although a Sunday, I might feel up to education natives and the like again. Sleep well and have nice dreams

[nidieunimaitre]

These two persons are not the same. k. Thaksin is a convict, a criminal on the run, k. Suthep is not. What I may or may not think of any of these two has nothing to do with it. It's a legal matter. So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under, whereas k. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his assurance to return immediately after the Games.

Any other 'simple' questions somewhat related to the topic you can think of ?

I guess it boils down to the trial and the validity of the conviction, discussed ad nauseam here, accepted by some as politically motivated, by others as sound....reasonable doubt? Give the man a passport

Terribly sorry, dear geo, but that's plain and utter BS.

K. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his word. As simple as that. Even in Britain that's considered ungentlemanly, not done, no cricket, as it were.

Now please excuse me, at 2:2-AM I feel a need to distance myself from worthy members, fools and other idiots to start my well deserved nightly rest. Tomorrow, although a Sunday, I might feel up to education natives and the like again. Sleep well and have nice dreams

2.22 AM??? You are in Thailand???

Ah that explains it all.

By the way, that means you could not vote Wilders or SGP this time?

[473geo]

These two persons are not the same. k. Thaksin is a convict, a criminal on the run, k. Suthep is not. What I may or may not think of any of these two has nothing to do with it. It's a legal matter. So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under, whereas k. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his assurance to return immediately after the Games.

Any other 'simple' questions somewhat related to the topic you can think of ?

I guess it boils down to the trial and the validity of the conviction, discussed ad nauseam here, accepted by some as politically motivated, by others as sound....reasonable doubt? Give the man a passport

Terribly sorry, dear geo, but that's plain and utter BS.

K. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his word. As simple as that. Even in Britain that's considered ungentlemanly, not done, no cricket, as it were.

Now please excuse me, at 2:2-AM I feel a need to distance myself from worthy members, fools and other idiots to start my well deserved nightly rest. Tomorrow, although a Sunday, I might feel up to education natives and the like again. Sleep well and have nice dreams

Lack of sleep clearly makes you grumpy and not at all receptive Rubl......you do right, off you go get some rest.....Thaksin will still be here for you tomorrow.......well not here as in Thailand you understand

[rubl]

Terribly sorry, dear geo, but that's plain and utter BS.

K. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his word. As simple as that. Even in Britain that's considered ungentlemanly, not done, no cricket, as it were.

Now please excuse me, at 2:2-AM I feel a need to distance myself from worthy members, fools and other idiots to start my well deserved nightly rest. Tomorrow, although a Sunday, I might feel up to education natives and the like again. Sleep well and have nice dreams

2.22 AM??? You are in Thailand???

Ah that explains it all.

By the way, that means you could not vote Wilders or SGP this time?

Not sure what it explains, but never mind.

For your info, if I had registered in time I could have voted. Very unlikely I'd have voted Wilders and I'm not of the right confession to have my vote accepted by the SGP. Years ago I was somewhat CDA/PVDA, not that that is any of your business. Nor does it have any relation with the topic of Thaksin's passport.

Good night!

[Maestro]

...

[Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul] said he had seen the Ombudsman Office's report and has asked the Foreign Ministry Permanent Secretary to take care of it, but didn't think the ruling would be a problem.

He justified the passport issuance by citing Regulation 23(7)and saying that he did not think Thaksin had caused any damage to Thailand...

I was wondering what "Regulation 23(7)" refers to and checked section 23 of Thailand's Nationality Act, but it is not that. However, as I was browsing through that law I came across this (highlighting in bold is mine):

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

The shocking thing about this is that in this situation the loss of Thai nationality is automatic, without any need for the Interior Minister or any other government official having to take action such as to revoke it, as is the case in other situations dealt with by other sections of the law. Of course we don't know how Thaksin got his passports of Montenegro, Nicaragua, etc, whether he was naturalised as a citizen of those countries.

[Buchholz]

I will never understand the obsession of TV Forum members with that man.

What is so special about him?

If Thaksin dropped dead tomorrow the democrats would have no manifesto......

Thaksin is therefore closely monitored for any comment or action that can be seen to benefit the cause of the Democrats..........in short he's all they've got .

the Democrats???... LOL

"he's all they've got"

If Thaksin dropped dead, the Pheu Thai Party would be decimated.

They would have no one to do their thinking.

"Thaksin Thinks, Pheu Thai Acts" election campaign poster

In their nepotistic tradition, they'd be down to having Oak do their thinking.

.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Democrats urge PM to take Ombudsman's advice on Thaksin passport

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has been urged to show leadership by acting on the Office of the Ombudsman's recommendation to revoke fugitive ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's passport.

The Foreign Ministry's Department of Consular Affairs cited a policy issued by the Foreign Ministry that Thaksin should be given a new passport because his living abroad had not caused any damage to the country or foreign countries.

yeah, right...

no damage at all.

*Edited to add smiley to avoid confusion for the trio of sarcasm-challenged posters.

.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[Fozfromoz]

I will never understand the obsession of TV Forum members with that man.

What is so special about him?

If Thaksin dropped dead tomorrow the democrats would have no manifesto......

Thaksin is therefore closely monitored for any comment or action that can be seen to benefit the cause of the Democrats..........in short he's all they've got .

the Democrats???... LOL

"he's all they've got"

If Thaksin dropped dead, the Pheu Thai Party would be decimated.

They would have no one to do their thinking.

"Thaksin Thinks, Pheu Thai Acts" election campaign poster

In their nepotistic tradition, they'd be down to having Oak do their thinking.

.

If Thaksin dropped dead many here would feel jilted in that they would then need to find another obsession........LOL

[Buchholz]

You prefer Suthep?

Luckily the topic is "Thailand gives ex-pm Thaksin passport back"

By the way, that means you could not vote Wilders or SGP this time?

Nor does it have any relation with the topic of Thaksin's passport.

Kudos to you rubl for consistently redirecting the latest participant in the derailing sweepstakes.

.

[Buchholz]

I will never understand the obsession of TV Forum members with that man.

What is so special about him?

If Thaksin dropped dead tomorrow the democrats would have no manifesto......

Thaksin is therefore closely monitored for any comment or action that can be seen to benefit the cause of the Democrats..........in short he's all they've got .

the Democrats???... LOL

"he's all they've got"

If Thaksin dropped dead, the Pheu Thai Party would be decimated.

They would have no one to do their thinking.

"Thaksin Thinks, Pheu Thai Acts" election campaign poster

In their nepotistic tradition, they'd be down to having Oak do their thinking.

If Thaksin dropped dead many here would feel jilted in that they would then need to find another obsession........

Those obsessed with saying others are obsessed would be lost.

.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

...

[Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul] said he had seen the Ombudsman Office's report and has asked the Foreign Ministry Permanent Secretary to take care of it, but didn't think the ruling would be a problem.

He justified the passport issuance by citing Regulation 23(7)and saying that he did not think Thaksin had caused any damage to Thailand...

I was wondering what "Regulation 23(7)" refers to and checked section 23 of Thailand's Nationality Act, but it is not that.

I believe the regulation cited is from Foreign Ministry regulations

the Foreign Ministry's Department of Consular Affairs met and decided that according to ministerial regulation

No luck finding them online.

.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Thailand's Nationality Act,

as I was browsing through that law I came across this (highlighting in bold is mine):

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

The shocking thing about this is that in this situation the loss of Thai nationality is automatic, without any need for the Interior Minister or any other government official having to take action such as to revoke it, as is the case in other situations dealt with by other sections of the law. Of course we don't know how Thaksin got his passports of Montenegro, Nicaragua, etc, whether he was naturalised as a citizen of those countries.

In regards to Montenegro, information says:

Montenegro says has given Thaksin citizenship

March 17, 2010 (Reuters) - Ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has Montenegrin citizenship and arrived there earlier this week, officials in the Balkan country said on Wednesday.

A brief statement from Montenegrin national police said Thaksin arrived on a private plane from Dubai on March 13 at the Adriatic coastal airport of Tivat.

"Mr. Shinawatra is a Montenegrin citizen and is now located in Montenegro," police spokeswoman Tamara Ralevic said in the statement.

http://www.reuters.c...E62G2QM20100317

=================================================================

Information also tells us the price of that citizenship:

Montenegro: Citizenship For Sale?

The German media have reported that Montenegro has already given citizenship to the former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is wanted under the corruption charges in his home country. Accordingly, Shinawatra pays for his “safe haven” by investing in the Montenegro’s tourism.

The government of Montenegro has announced it will be offering an “economic citizenship” to applicants who invest at least 500,000 Euros in the country.

While Montenegro sees that offer as an opportunity to boost its economy, it has caused diverse reactions in the European Union, who has recently granted Montenegro’s citizens with visa-free entry in the Schengen zone.

The “economic citizenship” scheme is to "attract tycoons and corrupt politicians on the run" and undermine Montenegro's credibility abroad, the opposition leader Nebojsa Medojevic told Associated Press.

http://www.allvoices...enship-for-sale

.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

If Thaksin dropped dead many here would feel jilted in that they would then need to find another obsession........LOL

I appreciate the above comment was made facetiously but it does raise a serious point.It should at first be said the majority of Thaksin's critics have genuine and legitimate reasons for their views, and the psychotic element is a very small minority.In any event one does wonder how the obsessive element, should Thaksin be removed permanently, would explain the ongoing deep divisions in Thai society or do they think these would magically vanish.The truth of course is that Thaksin or no Thaksin the old order is doomed - that is the Thailand dominated by throwback feudalists, power hungry generals and old style businessmen, a country of unelected elites and smiling peasants who knew their place.Personally I'm not much enamoured of what is likely to replace the old Thailand and I have much affection for some aspects of it, not least its courtesy and charm.But the elites who had the possibility of gradual reform almost certainly (though courage and imagination from the likes of Abhisit might still win the day) ruined their chances with their greed, stupidity and criminality - no sense of enlightened self interest.In the meantime we must put up with the obsessives' endless nonsense about Thaksin's passport, not exactly the most important, significant or even interesting question by a long shot. Edited September 16, 2012 by jayboy

[phiphidon]

I'm appalled, I thought it had taken only two days because of flooded offices. Now I learn it's like apply Oct 25th, issued Nov 4th, delivered ???

Sorry, but the MoFA is no longer on top of my list of ministries to have achieved well.

I don't remember you having that relaxed attitude at the time rubl, much more outrage was displayed by you then, that in a time of flood they were out delivering passports personally instead of saving old ladies?

[phiphidon]

I will never understand the obsession of TV Forum members with that man.

What is so special about him?

Nothing really. Just seems to consider Thailand his personal fief and all who disagree fools to be eradicated. It would be nice if one could say 'a left over of the 20th century', but unfortunately that's not the case. Still a few like him around, mis-understood billionairs who have the good of their people in mind

Well thats one way of looking at it.

Thaksin is not in the country anymore but there are still a great number of people who consider Thailand their personal fiefdom and all who disagree with them as uneducated and to be got rid of ( by killing them if you have to) - they have a different outlook to Thaksin.

One thing you can guarantee though Thaksins name sells papers and generates hits.

[phiphidon]

These two persons are not the same. k. Thaksin is a convict, a criminal on the run, k. Suthep is not. What I may or may not think of any of these two has nothing to do with it. It's a legal matter. So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under, whereas k. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his assurance to return immediately after the Games.

Any other 'simple' questions somewhat related to the topic you can think of ?

"So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under"

Now I know you're joking, one restriction that immediately comes to mind is a straightjacket.

[phiphidon]

Democrats urge PM to take Ombudsman's advice on Thaksin passport

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has been urged to show leadership by acting on the Office of the Ombudsman's recommendation to revoke fugitive ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's passport.

The Foreign Ministry's Department of Consular Affairs cited a policy issued by the Foreign Ministry that Thaksin should be given a new passport because his living abroad had not caused any damage to the country or foreign countries.

yeah, right...

no damage at all.

*Edited to add smiley to avoid confusion for the trio of sarcasm-challenged posters.

.

Karl Marxs solution was far more clumsy than your melliferous offering [!]

[rixalex]

These two persons are not the same. k. Thaksin is a convict, a criminal on the run, k. Suthep is not. What I may or may not think of any of these two has nothing to do with it. It's a legal matter. So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under, whereas k. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his assurance to return immediately after the Games.

Any other 'simple' questions somewhat related to the topic you can think of ?

I guess it boils down to the trial and the validity of the conviction, discussed ad nauseam here, accepted by some as politically motivated, by others as sound....reasonable doubt? Give the man a passport

If on the basis of some people questioning an on the run convict's sentence, the state should forgo normal and logical action against them such as rescinding of their passport, well then we may as well rescind such actions for every on the run convict, as i am sure even the most lonesome of them, can manage to rustle up a few relatives who would disagree with their sentence and call it unjust.

Personally i think the opinion of people, especially people who did not sit through the court proceedings, are not trained in law, and did not spend weeks studying all the evidence, no matter what the number of those people, is a complete and utter irrelevance. If someone convicted feels they were unfairly convicted, there are channels for them and their lawyers to follow.

Some people seem to favour matters of law being turned into personality contests, where perpetrators lucky enough to have the support of some people, should be treated differently from everyone else.

[rixalex]

I'm afraid I really have to think hard to come up with a friendly thing to say about k. Suthep. Luckily the topic is "Thailand gives ex-pm Thaksin passport back"

If they are all the same, why would one crook have a passport, and the other crook not?

This sort of "if one person gets away with it, it's not fair on the others, so let's let them all get away with it" mentality, is classic Thaksin support group reasoning that we have been hearing on this forum basically since he became a corrupt politician, and has been applied to virtually every wrong doing the man has ever committed. I am convinced there is nothing he could do that couldn't be excused away by a "well this fellow did the same thing and got away with it, why pick on dear old Thaksin".

Dare to question this illogical nonsense, and you'll be accused of having an obsession.

Edited September 16, 2012 by rixalex

[phiphidon]

Kudos to you rubl for consistently redirecting the latest participant in the derailing sweepstakes.

.

Did you lose your sarcasm smiley? These entries from rubl:

It's not that I come to the defence of member Buchholz or even assume he needs defending, it's just to set some things straight

The question from JSbkk was 'why is this topic hot'. The answer is not 'has been revitalised'. The answer is much more profound and modern day complicated:

The frontend used by TV (i.e. the software package which offers the WYSIWYG and other types of functionality) has a buildin algorithm which can conclude that because of the number of posts to a topic (in #/day, #/topic lifetime, etc.) the topic can be flagged 'hot'. Another word for 'hot' would be "of people's interest".

BTW Mnister of FA Surapong may well ask k. Thaksin if he's happy with his new and shiny passport. Nothing personal of course, just trying to gather some information on how the public percieves the current government's performance and gathering information which may help the TAT in their campaigns

edit: add: I know I should have started my reply with " it's not because I like ...", terribly sorry, bad form, what was I thinking

http://www.thaivisa....00#entry5431075

With the "Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts" MPs having a 265 out of 500 majority, it seems somewhat unlikely. Very democratic of course. Some of our foreign members really know how to appreciate this type of democratic functioning as back home it works the same

http://www.thaivisa....25#entry5666570

Nothing really. Just seems to consider Thailand his personal fief and all who disagree fools to be eradicated. It would be nice if one could say 'a left over of the 20th century', but unfortunately that's not the case. Still a few like him around, mis-understood billionairs who have the good of their people in mind

http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5669303

Reconciliation the Thaksin way. Mind you I assume you have your own tongue firmly in your own cheek

http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5669328

These two persons are not the same. k. Thaksin is a convict, a criminal on the run, k. Suthep is not. What I may or may not think of any of these two has nothing to do with it. It's a legal matter. So k. Suthep is not under any restriction, nor seem to need to be put under, whereas k. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his assurance to return immediately after the Games.

http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5669347

And just to round it off, some flaming. Yes he's done a lot to keep the thread on topic [!]

Terribly sorry, dear geo, but that's plain and utter BS.

K. Thaksin is a bail jumper who broke his word. As simple as that. Even in Britain that's considered ungentlemanly, not done, no cricket, as it were.

Now please excuse me, at 2:2-AM I feel a need to distance myself from worthy members, fools and other idiots to start my well deserved nightly rest. Tomorrow, although a Sunday,

I might feel up to education natives and the like again. Sleep well and have nice dreams

http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5669363

Edited September 16, 2012 by phiphidon

[473geo]

I will never understand the obsession of TV Forum members with that man.

What is so special about him?

If Thaksin dropped dead tomorrow the democrats would have no manifesto......

Thaksin is therefore closely monitored for any comment or action that can be seen to benefit the cause of the Democrats..........in short he's all they've got .

the Democrats???... LOL

"he's all they've got"

Indeed laughable Buchholz

When all the Democrats appear to have to roll out at the next election is:

We stopped the reconciliation bill designed to assist Thaksin

We removed the passport from Thaksin

I wonder if their next campaign will also be based on the phrase that lost the last election; a vote for PTP is a vote for Thaksin

Hurtling towards the inevitable, they really need to get their act together on issues that affect the Thai peope not one man. The government appear to be getting the message, Thaksin appears to have taken a step back into the shadows, and the Dems.....same old same old.......

Edited September 16, 2012 by 473geo

[rixalex]

Indeed laughable Buchholz

When all the Democrats appear to have to roll out at the next election is:

We stopped the reconciliation bill designed to assist Thaksin

We removed the passport from Thaksin

Parties that have been in opposition don't tend to campaign with proud boasts of what they did in opposition, but rather proud boasts of what they will do once in power. Take PTP at the last election. Did they boast about how so many of their people had been involved in one way or another with all the death and destruction in Bangkok? Or any of their other great achievements in opposition. Don't recall so.

[rixalex]

Hurtling towards the inevitable, they really need to get their act together on issues that affect the Thai peope not one man. The government appear to be getting the message, Thaksin appears to have taken a step back into the shadows, and the Dems.....same old same old.......

He hasn't taken a step back at all. They are merely coming at it from a different direction. The bill that might have provided the key to success has momentarily been thwarted, in no small part thanks to the Dems, so the new tact is get in bed with the military, and by teaming up, get some leverage on the Dems so a deal can be done to get the Thaksin whitewash bill through.

The moment Thaksin's well-being takes a step back is the moment he switches things up and gets someone in who can do that most pressing of jobs.

Edited September 16, 2012 by rixalex

[473geo]

Indeed laughable Buchholz

When all the Democrats appear to have to roll out at the next election is:

We stopped the reconciliation bill designed to assist Thaksin

We removed the passport from Thaksin

Parties that have been in opposition don't tend to campaign with proud boasts of what they did in opposition, but rather proud boasts of what they will do once in power. Take PTP at the last election. Did they boast about how so many of their people had been involved in one way or another with all the death and destruction in Bangkok? Or any of their other great achievements in opposition. Don't recall so.

Tell me rixalex was the passport of Pin Chakkaphak revoked and was he harried and chased around the world by the Democrats?......just asking

Edited September 16, 2012 by 473geo

[473geo]

Hurtling towards the inevitable, they really need to get their act together on issues that affect the Thai peope not one man. The government appear to be getting the message, Thaksin appears to have taken a step back into the shadows, and the Dems.....same old same old.......

He hasn't taken a step back at all. They are merely coming at it from a different direction. The bill that might have provided the key to success has momentarily been thwarted, in no small part thanks to the Dems, so the new tact is get in bed with the military, and by teaming up, get some leverage on the Dems so a deal can be done to get the Thaksin whitewash bill through.

The moment Thaksin's well-being takes a step back is the moment he switches things up and gets someone in who can do that most pressing of jobs.

Yes but the problem the democrats face isn't really Thaksin is it?.........more likely that the military warmed so quickly to PTP........leaves the democrats out on a bit of a limb.........but they always have Thaksin to keep them in the public eye.....bless 'em

Edited September 16, 2012 by 473geo

[473geo]

Hurtling towards the inevitable, they really need to get their act together on issues that affect the Thai peope not one man. The government appear to be getting the message, Thaksin appears to have taken a step back into the shadows, and the Dems.....same old same old.......

He hasn't taken a step back at all. They are merely coming at it from a different direction. The bill that might have provided the key to success has momentarily been thwarted, in no small part thanks to the Dems, so the new tact is get in bed with the military, and by teaming up, get some leverage on the Dems so a deal can be done to get the Thaksin whitewash bill through.

The moment Thaksin's well-being takes a step back is the moment he switches things up and gets someone in who can do that most pressing of jobs.

"In no small part thanks to the Dems"

You wouldn't be lauding something the Dems have done in opposition regarding Thaksin would you? no surprise there then

Edited September 16, 2012 by 473geo

[rixalex]

Parties that have been in opposition don't tend to campaign with proud boasts of what they did in opposition, but rather proud boasts of what they will do once in power. Take PTP at the last election. Did they boast about how so many of their people had been involved in one way or another with all the death and destruction in Bangkok? Or any of their other great achievements in opposition. Don't recall so.

Tell me rixalex was the passport of Pin Chakkaphak revoked and was he harried and chased around the world by the Democrats?......just asking

One on the run criminal didn't have his passport revoked, so neither should Thaksin... is that where this stream of thought is journeying to?

Thaksin's support group should have this sort of excuse patented. Well his passport wasn't revoked, well he did it, well he got away with it, well he is just as bad, well they are just as corrupt, well the PAD.. blah blah blah... airport airport, airport, conspiracy, elite, politically motivated....