Abhisit: Thaksin Not Eligible For Thai Passport

[h90]

The whole ordeals are Thai political games. Started out with the Democrats took his passport, citizenship and police status. Pheu Thai won the election, and they will undo what the opponents did. If the people don't want him back, Pheu Thai will never win the election. Democrats, win the election first before making the wave for the peace of your country.

The Democrats did not take his citizenship. PTP actually complained that it is illegal that Abhisit has a dual citizenship. Thaksin has 3, 4 or more.

I think his police status was not removed, but I am not sure. I think Thailand is the only country worldwide where a convicted criminal on the run can have a rank in the police.

[phiphidon]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

"As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious"

More importantly Interpol are not willing to recognise the warrant, therefore a red notice was never raised, therefore we could assume the warrant was political and malicious.

National Police Spokesperson Police Major General Prawut Thavornsiri echoed the statement of Mr Thani that Interpol has never issued any red notice against Police Lieutenant Colonel Thaksin and, therefore, has not revoked the mentioned arrest warrant.

The spokesperson explained that the Foreign Affairs Division of the police used to file a request asking Interpol to list the ex-prime minister on red notice after he was sentenced to a prison term in a political case, but Interpol rejected the request reasoning that the case did not meet the criteria for red notice.

http://thainews.prd....id=255408160002

A good number of people who complain about unfairly issued Red Notices argue that the charges underlying their Red Notices are politically motivated. Many times, the claim of political motivation is true.

A government's basis for bringing charges against one of its citizens or residents may stem from the governing regime's desire to control dissidents, to quiet whistleblowers, or to discourage political opposition. As any human rights non-governmental organization can attest, politically motivated criminal charges are brought with frequency in many countries.

INTERPOL's Constitution prohibits INTERPOL from becoming involved in any matter of a political character. Nonetheless, the argument that a Red Notice is politically based can be made, substantiated, and submitted with proof to INTERPOL, and the subject's request to remove the Red Notice can still be validly denied.

How can such a claim fail? For INTERPOL, the existence of political motivation is not the only determining factor regarding whether a Red Notice is properly issued or not. There are certainly numerous criminal cases in any country which are brought based on legitimate criminal violations, but which are also partially based on the political motivation of a government official. Because of this reality, INTERPOL will only categorize a Red Notice request as impermissibly politically motivated when the primary character is political.

If this sounds a bit like the old, "I know it when I see it" standard articulated for pornography by American Supreme Court Justice Stewart, take solace in this: INTERPOL does have actual criteria that it applies to each case to determine whether it is primarily politically motivated or based on the stated crime. If INTERPOL agrees that the primary motivation for the Red Notice request is political, then it will be deemed inappropriate for INTERPOL's involvement.

http://www.rednotice...-and-practices/

[anterian]

Apart from within the ASEAN group a Thai passport is pretty worthless. This entire business is simply to take the piss out of the Democrats. I'm surprised Abhisit fell for it, what a waste of a British education!

[KKK]

Simply having a passport doesn't mean anything. It doesn't enshrine a right to leave a country, and merely submitting your passport doesn't mean that immigration have to let you leave or let you enter.

I would submit that if he can get yourself to Thai immigration with a proof of Thai citizenship, they would be honour bound to let you enter, whether or not you had a passport. Isn't there a statement in the constitution that the government cannot strip someone of their thai citizenship, and they cannot deny entry to a Thai person?

Section 36 of the 1997 constitution says "No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."

But that is not really the issue. He would need a passport to LEAVE wherever he is and a visa (depending on passport used to travel) to get on a plane. Easiest way that I can see is a Thai passport valid for travel BACK TO THAILAND AND JAIL ONLY. The rest of the points made here are all academic....should he shouldn't he etc....it is where he is allowed to travel to that should only be considered.....

So of precisely what benefit is it to give him a Thai passport?

The benefit is simple...it allows him to travel back to Thailand without requiring a visa. Thought that would have been obvious to anyone. Of course whether he will or not is another matter.

[Mystory]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Someone???????

Does anyone in Pheu Thai ever tell the truth?

I heard they where all in one helicopter flying at night when this happened

[Macmundi]

It is everyone's birthright to hold the passport of the country he/she was born in. I don't see why people are against the man coming back home to face his jail sentence. If he manages to avoid doing time, then the Thai people should fix the justice system. Not let him AND the law get away with it.

[Thai at Heart]

Simply having a passport doesn't mean anything. It doesn't enshrine a right to leave a country, and merely submitting your passport doesn't mean that immigration have to let you leave or let you enter.

I would submit that if he can get yourself to Thai immigration with a proof of Thai citizenship, they would be honour bound to let you enter, whether or not you had a passport. Isn't there a statement in the constitution that the government cannot strip someone of their thai citizenship, and they cannot deny entry to a Thai person?

Section 36 of the 1997 constitution says "No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."

But that is not really the issue. He would need a passport to LEAVE wherever he is and a visa (depending on passport used to travel) to get on a plane. Easiest way that I can see is a Thai passport valid for travel BACK TO THAILAND AND JAIL ONLY. The rest of the points made here are all academic....should he shouldn't he etc....it is where he is allowed to travel to that should only be considered.....

So of precisely what benefit is it to give him a Thai passport?

The benefit is simple...it allows him to travel back to Thailand without requiring a visa. Thought that would have been obvious to anyone. Of course whether he will or not is another matter.

That supposes that Montengrans need a visa to enter Thailand. As for Thai Airways refusing his to fly, I am sure a quick word from immigration can sort that out, they are a government airline after all.

Better still just pass a law saying that crimminals returning voluntarily will be allowed entry. No need to even give him a passport.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[KKK]

Section 36 of the 1997 constitution says "No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."

But that is not really the issue. He would need a passport to LEAVE wherever he is and a visa (depending on passport used to travel) to get on a plane. Easiest way that I can see is a Thai passport valid for travel BACK TO THAILAND AND JAIL ONLY. The rest of the points made here are all academic....should he shouldn't he etc....it is where he is allowed to travel to that should only be considered.....

So of precisely what benefit is it to give him a Thai passport?

The benefit is simple...it allows him to travel back to Thailand without requiring a visa. Thought that would have been obvious to anyone. Of course whether he will or not is another matter.

That supposes that Montengrans need a visa to enter Thailand. As for Thai Airways refusing his to fly, I am sure a quick word from immigration can sort that out, they are a government airline after all.

Better still just pass a law saying that crimminals returning voluntarily will be allowed entry. No need to even give him a passport.

Every Non-Thai needs a visa to enter Thailand...some are issued at the port of entry, 30 days at airports, 15 days at land borders. Not all nationalities are allowed this. I doubt Montenegro is on the list. As for Thai Air, they'd have to follow international regulations government owned or not. And with strict security against terrorism these day at most airports I'd doubt he'd be allowed on a plane without proper travel documents. So no need to pass a law (a time consuming process) just give him a passport (as has already been done) BUT make it valid for travel BACK TO THAILAND AND JAIL ONLY. Simple solution...no visa...no quick words from immigration...no new laws needed... easy way for him to come back and face justice. It's so simple even my dog understands it.

[Thaddeus]

It is everyone's birthright to hold the passport of the country he/she was born in.

Jeeez.... hopefully for the last time, it is a privilege to have a passport and not an automatic right.

Name me one country that would issue a passport to one of its citizens if they were an on the run convicted felon.

Oh, wait a sec, Thailand.

[Crushdepth]

It is everyone's birthright to hold the passport of the country he/she was born in. I don't see why people are against the man coming back home to face his jail sentence. If he manages to avoid doing time, then the Thai people should fix the justice system. Not let him AND the law get away with it.

Let's get something straight here: There is *no* restriction on Thaksin returning to Thailand whatsoever, and this has been publicly stated by the former government on many occasions. Thaksin *chose* not to come back in order to avoid his jail time.

[Siam Simon]

Is Abhisit eligible for a Thai passport?

[Skywalker69]

Apparently ditto for the U.S. There was a post here recently from an American seeking professional tax help in BKK because, after a decade of not filing any U.S. tax returns, he found that the U.S. consulate here wouldn't issue him a new passport when he went to try to replace his expiring/expired one... They had a hold on any new passport for him because of the unpaid taxes.

But in Thailand, apparently, you can be a convicted criminal who's jumped bail and fled the country prior to sentencing on corruption charges, and still get your new passport delivered via government diplomatic pouch with next-day service -- even though you haven't asked for a new one (so the legal advisor claims....)

Abhisit pointed out that Thaksin, who is also the older sibling of the premiere, remains a fugitive and has not served time in a corruption case conviction.

Consequently, Thaksin should not be eligible for a new passport.

Abhisit is undoubtedly correct that Thaksin "should not" be eligible.... But the question is, "IS' he eligible under the government's laws and regulations.

As I've seen them quoted in other posts, it sounds/seems like the government (this or any others before or after it) has discretion to decide one way or the other -- in the absence of some court ruling/order prohibiting the issuance/holding of a passport.

Where is the justice ministry when you need them? Interesting to see if they have a comment to make but then again it might not be in their interestes to if they want to see in the New Year, sorry to be a bit cynical but what goes on here is not what we have seen before is it, the term "moving the goalposts" springs to mind

All of the PTP MP´s is in Thaksins pocket. If he tells them to jump, they ask, how high?

[hellodolly]

All this talk about passports a waste of time.

Thaksin has enough passports to go any where he wants to go.

The question is does he want to go every where.

As far as a Thai passport to come back to Thailand he dosen't need any passport.

The country will welcome him with open arms and a special ceremony on his arrival.

They will even pay his way and give him two years of free room and board.

The issue is not does he have it or is it legal to give it to him.

The real issue is the secretiveness of the operation and the lying.

Saying you are going to give it to him for a New Year present when you have already done it by a unconventional method is lying.

Not sure if using a Diplomatic carrier is legal or not .

[whybother]

Is Abhisit eligible for a Thai passport?

Yes.

[Skywalker69]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Someone???????

Does anyone in Pheu Thai ever tell the truth?

Yes!!!!! (but I could be lieing)!!!!!!:jap:.

Please guys stop, you´r killing me.. :cheesy:

[timberboy]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

You are so, so wrong. No one is "entitiled" to a passport. Passports are issued by your home country so you may travel to another country. If you violate you own countries laws, your passport can be cancelled and revoked. This is recognized around the world, except, it seems, here in Thailand.

Simply having a passport doesn't mean anything. It doesn't enshrine a right to leave a country, and merely submitting your passport doesn't mean that immigration have to let you leave or let you enter.

I would submit that if he can get yourself to Thai immigration with a proof of Thai citizenship, they would be honour bound to let you enter, whether or not you had a passport. Isn't there a statement in the constitution that the government cannot strip someone of their thai citizenship, and they cannot deny entry to a Thai person?

Section 36 of the 1997 constitution says "No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."

But that is not really the issue. He would need a passport to LEAVE wherever he is and a visa (depending on passport used to travel) to get on a plane. Easiest way that I can see is a Thai passport valid for travel BACK TO THAILAND AND JAIL ONLY. The rest of the points made here are all academic....should he shouldn't he etc....it is where he is allowed to travel to that should only be considered.....

It really wouldn't matter if Thaksin came back and served the laughable jail sentence that they gave him. He would only be put into a prison that is a light security facility much like they do in the western countries with high profile prisoners [for example Martha Stewart in the USA]. Then after he serves the time, he would be exonerated most likely and be able to return to his normal life. Believe me , Thailand is better off if he doesn't return!!

[bigbamboo]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

Or it could just be no country wants to get involved with Thailand's flakey politics.

[Misterwhisper]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

He doesn't need a Thai passport to return to Thailand. He has many others.

Is there an international arrest warrant?

And since when is a passport an entitlement?

There seem to be certain misconceptions as to the nature of a passport. A passport is nothing but a document issued to a citizen of a country to facilitate their traveling abroad. A passport has no bearings whatsoever as to the nationality of the person to whom it was issued. You can be a Thai citizen without holding a Thai passport. There is absolutely NO "entitlement" whatsoever to a passport, but it is issued at the sole discretion of the government. Clear now? Good. Then we can hopefully and finally put that discussion at rest.

Secondly, and with regards to that back-and-forth correspondence about "diplomatic pouches": If a citizen of a country lives abroad and applies for a new passport (or any other official document) at their embassy/consulate there, that document is usually issued by a government authority back home and then delivered to the embassy in a diplomatic pouch. Diplomatic pouches are dispatched to an embassy on a practically daily basis, containing all sorts of documents. Passports are therefore ALWAYS delivered to an embassy in a foreign country by diplomatic pouch. ALWAYS! So can we shelf that now as well, please? Thank you.

What IS suspicious, however, is that the man allegedly "applied" for his passport at the Thai Embassy in Dubai on the 25th of October and already received his travel document a single day later, on the 26th of October. Even if a Thai citizen applies for a passport in their home country at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they can hardly expect it to be isued within 24 hours. Rather, it can take several weeks! Keeping this in mind, some influential powers have obviously been at work to "facilitate" his passport so speedily.

What irks me most is that his "adviser" Noppadon claimed Thaksin wouldn't use his brandnew Thai passport. If that is the case, why apply for one in the first place? Or was that passport perhaps "forced" on Mr. Thaksin and he had no other choice but to reluctantly accept it? Ha ha ha, sure, we all are going to believe that. The only thing that is certain is that a whole bunch of people have blatantly lied over the issue.

In the end it turned out that the announced "New Year's gift" was noting less than a "late autumn gift" anyway.

[gregb]

What IS suspicious, however, is that the man allegedly "applied" for his passport at the Thai Embassy in Dubai on the 25th of October and already received his travel document a single day later, on the 26th of October. Even if a Thai citizen applies for a passport in their home country at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they can hardly expect it to be isued within 24 hours. Rather, it can take several weeks! Keeping this in mind, some influential powers have obviously been at work to "facilitate" his passport so speedily.

Actually we just made passports for our children. Picked 'em up today. It takes only 3 days and 1000 baht. This is standard service offered to every single Thai citizen. There is also an expedited service available for an additional fee, but we didn't investigate that option so I don't know the details.

Not saying I agree with giving the criminal fugitive a passport, but 24 hour turn around would likely be available to anyone, and probably not even expensive. The issue with the passport that is incriminating is how and why his name was removed from the blacklist. Giving him a passport didn't actually do much for him, as he could already go basically anywhere he wanted, but it did make a mockery of the Thai justice system and showed utter contempt for all of Thaksin's victims.

The truly scary part is that the current government is pushing ahead with this policy of bringing Thaksin home and the country be damned. Only a fool believes bullets are not going to fly if he comes back. How many lives of their fellow countrymen do these red terrorists think that square faced scumbag is worth?

[Misterwhisper]

What IS suspicious, however, is that the man allegedly "applied" for his passport at the Thai Embassy in Dubai on the 25th of October and already received his travel document a single day later, on the 26th of October. Even if a Thai citizen applies for a passport in their home country at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they can hardly expect it to be isued within 24 hours. Rather, it can take several weeks! Keeping this in mind, some influential powers have obviously been at work to "facilitate" his passport so speedily.

Actually we just made passports for our children. Picked 'em up today. It takes only 3 days and 1000 baht. This is standard service offered to every single Thai citizen. There is also an expedited service available for an additional fee, but we didn't investigate that option so I don't know the details.

Not saying I agree with giving the criminal fugitive a passport, but 24 hour turn around would likely be available to anyone, and probably not even expensive. The issue with the passport that is incriminating is how and why his name was removed from the blacklist. Giving him a passport didn't actually do much for him, as he could already go basically anywhere he wanted, but it did make a mockery of the Thai justice system and showed utter contempt for all of Thaksin's victims.

The truly scary part is that the current government is pushing ahead with this policy of bringing Thaksin home and the country be damned. Only a fool believes bullets are not going to fly if he comes back. How many lives of their fellow countrymen do these red terrorists think that square faced scumbag is worth?

I gladly stand corrected then. But 3 days are still 3 days. Thaksin's passport was issued within 24 hours and not delivered domestically, but to a Thai embassy abroad. Now, I do understand that he does have the means to pay for "expedited service", though, and he might well have taken advantage of that service. Taking advantage is one of his fortes anyway. ;-)

As for the rest of your post, I wholeheartily agree with each and every point you make.

[hellodolly]

What IS suspicious, however, is that the man allegedly "applied" for his passport at the Thai Embassy in Dubai on the 25th of October and already received his travel document a single day later, on the 26th of October. Even if a Thai citizen applies for a passport in their home country at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they can hardly expect it to be isued within 24 hours. Rather, it can take several weeks! Keeping this in mind, some influential powers have obviously been at work to "facilitate" his passport so speedily.

Actually we just made passports for our children. Picked 'em up today. It takes only 3 days and 1000 baht. This is standard service offered to every single Thai citizen. There is also an expedited service available for an additional fee, but we didn't investigate that option so I don't know the details.

Not saying I agree with giving the criminal fugitive a passport, but 24 hour turn around would likely be available to anyone, and probably not even expensive. The issue with the passport that is incriminating is how and why his name was removed from the blacklist. Giving him a passport didn't actually do much for him, as he could already go basically anywhere he wanted, but it did make a mockery of the Thai justice system and showed utter contempt for all of Thaksin's victims.

The truly scary part is that the current government is pushing ahead with this policy of bringing Thaksin home and the country be damned. Only a fool believes bullets are not going to fly if he comes back. How many lives of their fellow countrymen do these red terrorists think that square faced scumbag is worth?

If Thaksin is not going to use his newly acquired passport why did he apply for it.

Could it be just his arrogance to show people that he is above the law and deserves special treatment?

I had mentioned earlier about the suspicious way of delivering it.

Sorry as Mister whisper said it is the normal way of delivering them.

Just a little faster than it is for human beings.

[Thaddeus]

What IS suspicious, however, is that the man allegedly "applied" for his passport at the Thai Embassy in Dubai on the 25th of October and already received his travel document a single day later, on the 26th of October. Even if a Thai citizen applies for a passport in their home country at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they can hardly expect it to be isued within 24 hours. Rather, it can take several weeks! Keeping this in mind, some influential powers have obviously been at work to "facilitate" his passport so speedily.

Actually we just made passports for our children. Picked 'em up today. It takes only 3 days and 1000 baht. This is standard service offered to every single Thai citizen. There is also an expedited service available for an additional fee, but we didn't investigate that option so I don't know the details.

Not saying I agree with giving the criminal fugitive a passport, but 24 hour turn around would likely be available to anyone, and probably not even expensive. The issue with the passport that is incriminating is how and why his name was removed from the blacklist. Giving him a passport didn't actually do much for him, as he could already go basically anywhere he wanted, but it did make a mockery of the Thai justice system and showed utter contempt for all of Thaksin's victims.

The truly scary part is that the current government is pushing ahead with this policy of bringing Thaksin home and the country be damned. Only a fool believes bullets are not going to fly if he comes back. How many lives of their fellow countrymen do these red terrorists think that square faced scumbag is worth?

If Thaksin is not going to use his newly acquired passport why did he apply for it.

Could it be just his arrogance to show people that he is above the law and deserves special treatment?

I think you may be on to something there..........

[kimamey]

"Prompong blasted the Democrats, saying the moves are politically motivated and meant as an attack against the government and a ways of discrediting the Premiere."

Democrat politicians that are politically motivated? Scandalous!!! They should get into line and be financially motivated like the rest of them.

[TongueThaied]

Well the "sheep's clothing" is off. Abhisit is obvously more interested in divisiveness that in unity. He continues to stir the pot of a non-issue. In the scheme of things that can affect the Kingdom, this is less than a pimple on a gnat's ass. To keep the pot boiling, Abhisit would have us swallow a camel and gant at a gnat.

If Abhisit really cares about his country, why doesn't he spend his energy on working to improve education for upcountry Thai kids or something truly useful. Business as usual.

[Oberkommando]

If Abhisit really cares about his country, why doesn't he spend his energy on working to improve education for upcountry Thai kids or something truly useful.

I doubt he "really cares" as he has absolutely no connection with the Thai working classes having been born in a foreign country and into vast wealth and privilege.

His family also has previous history and involvement with military juntas, his father was appointed into a ministerial position under the dictator Suchinda after the previous coup.

[AleG]

Well the "sheep's clothing" is off. Abhisit is obvously more interested in divisiveness that in unity. He continues to stir the pot of a non-issue. In the scheme of things that can affect the Kingdom, this is less than a pimple on a gnat's ass. To keep the pot boiling, Abhisit would have us swallow a camel and gant at a gnat.

If Abhisit really cares about his country, why doesn't he spend his energy on working to improve education for upcountry Thai kids or something truly useful. Business as usual.

Yes, how dare they point out the lies and unethical actions of the current government, they should just shut up and let them do whatever they feel entitled to.

Has it occurred to you that Thaksin seeking a passport (that his minions claim he has no use for) is the cause of this particular issue? Do you think also that convicted men on the run should be granted passports?

[whybother]

Well the "sheep's clothing" is off. Abhisit is obvously more interested in divisiveness that in unity. He continues to stir the pot of a non-issue. In the scheme of things that can affect the Kingdom, this is less than a pimple on a gnat's ass. To keep the pot boiling, Abhisit would have us swallow a camel and gant at a gnat.

If Abhisit really cares about his country, why doesn't he spend his energy on working to improve education for upcountry Thai kids or something truly useful. Business as usual.

Isn't issuing Thaksin a passport just being divisive?

Do you think the opposition should just sit back quietly and let the government continue to break regulations or laws?

How does the opposition improve education except by suggesting to the government to spend more time on policies to help the people rather than spending it on helping one person?

Edited December 20, 2011 by whybother

[Oberkommando]

Do you think also that convicted men on the run should be granted passports?

He shouldn't have been able to leave the country while on bail, but it is indicative of a country that worships wealth and the wealthy and where such wealth affords almost complete protection from the law and justice.

[mic6ard]

Granting passport to an escape convict The world must be laughing at the level of incompetence/corruption.

[sparebox2]

Granting passport to an escape convict The world must be laughing at the level of incompetence/corruption.

Quick question.

Why didn't Mark govt strip other convicts of their passports?