Digging A Great Big Hole In The Ground

[joker7]

Just back from the trip up north. About to plant around 80 Rai of Sugarcane.

The father in law has said he needs to dig a 1 rai hole in the ground so he can pump out the river and water all the sugarcane he has just planted. I did ask why he cant just pump direct from the river which to me is the more obvious way to do things. But maybe for long term the hole is the way forward.

I was thinking best to dig 2 x 1/2 Rai holes which he can then use as a mini fish farm ie - keep one hole empty fill the other throw a net + fish then pump out to the other hole etc etc...

Anyone done this kind of thing ?

What kind of costs should I expect for equipment pump/hoses etc.

Any ideas on best pump etc to use ?

How much you think ballpark for rental machinery to dig the hole ?

Any ideas past experiences would be helpful.

Thanks

Joker

[jamescollister]

Can't help with the pumps etc, but round here they will dig the hole for free. They then sell the dirt. Have a look around for some building work and tell them you want a hole. Jim

[ozzydom]

Your initial thoughts were about right , if the river has water all year round ,why pump to a pond and then repeat the action to ,I would imagine ,flood irrigate the cane.

Maizefarmer is not around to calculate the water requirement of flood irrigating 80 rai of cane ,but I am guessing it will make a big dent in the capacity of a 1 rai pond,which you then have to refill.

Pump size will depend on suction point to max head or highest point of the irrigated area and volume required.

Pump costs would be EXPENSIVE as a 6 inch powered by a big 4 or even a six cylinder diesel engine would be needed.

If they have grown cane in that area before,without irrigation ,why the sudden need to change.

If it is your wifes land and crop there may be some merit in such a capitol outlay ,although it would take a long time to recoup the costs in added production.

If you are to be the financier for FIL ,I hope you have deep pockets.

[Gary A]

If you want to irrigate from a pond, you will need a BIG pond. For example, we have a ten rai plot and had a half rai pond dug. After digging the too shallow pond we had about eight rai left for planting. When flood irrigating rice, the pond would be pumped totally dry. It would take about two days to pump it dry using an eleven HP Kubota tak tak and a four inch pump. Even after hiring another excavator and enlarging and deepening the pond, there was still not enough water for a decent rice crop.

The paddy dikes are now dozed out and the land is planted with sugar cane. This is the second year for the sugar cane and even the first year yielded a decent crop. My wife may even make a little money this year.

Unfortunately I have learned that farming is NOT a get rich quick business. The price of cut cane is now 850 baht per ton in the Loei province area. It is an expensive crop to plant and an expensive crop to harvest.

[joker7]

Thanks for the response. From what I understand the dirt from the 1 Rai plot will be moved to the other side of the property filling in another hole which aligns a dry river so from this point of view production should not be altered.

Along with the fish production I would think they may be able to get 15-20k over a 3-4 period so in time the hole should pay for itself. As ive time on my side I have no problem with this.

Im fairly confident that this should pan out ok - ive received rough costs of 60,000 baht.

We were told by the sugar guys in the factory it is safer to plant in Dec/January than April when excessive rainfall can destroy the initial growth of the crop so this is the main reason for needing the hole pronto.

Gary A : Im wondering your tonnage / rai you received on avg over your 10 Rai ?

[OOTAI]

Here's my thoughts.

1 rai = 1600m² and 80 rai = 128000m². So to irrigate the 80 rai to a depth of 50mm the 1 rai pond would need to be 4m deep to hold enough water and that would only provide enough to flood it once.

As for yield my wife and her cousin just harvested 6.5rai and got 103tonne of cane. So between 15 and 16 tonne per rai, they received 1250 baht per tonne. It was the first years crop so the next couple should yield more. They are located in Burinam.

Last year she planted cassava at the end of the rainy season and then because it didn’t rain she needed to provide the plants with some water. We went and bought a small pump (Honda I think) together with some sprinklers and flexible hose to run them out. We had 3 sprinklers each capable of 200 litres per minute to match the pumps capability of 600 litres per minute. We had enough hose to run from my water source to the edges of the fields she wanted to irrigate. The sprinklers covered a 25m diameter circle so the total area covered by each sprinkler was 490m². So the 3 of them if you consider overlap probably covered ¾ of a rai each move and it took 2 days to water the 8 rai. If you used the same system on 80rai then you would need to pump 6400m³ or 6.4 million litres (for a coverage depth of 50mm) which at 600 litres per minute would take about 8 days pumping 24 hours a day.

In the end do I think it was worth it, answer “no”, but it did help pass some time and we have used them to water the bananas since. I think that sprinklers would give a better distribution of the water unless the land is terraced paddy, if it’s not then the water would need to be controlled to ensure coverage over the whole field.

[Gary A]

Thanks for the response. From what I understand the dirt from the 1 Rai plot will be moved to the other side of the property filling in another hole which aligns a dry river so from this point of view production should not be altered.

Along with the fish production I would think they may be able to get 15-20k over a 3-4 period so in time the hole should pay for itself. As ive time on my side I have no problem with this.

Im fairly confident that this should pan out ok - ive received rough costs of 60,000 baht.

We were told by the sugar guys in the factory it is safer to plant in Dec/January than April when excessive rainfall can destroy the initial growth of the crop so this is the main reason for needing the hole pronto.

Gary A : Im wondering your tonnage / rai you received on avg over your 10 Rai ?

Last year was the first cutting and rather than look for workers, she sold it standing. She got 70,000 baht for the crop standing in the field. The cost of planting, dozing the rice paddies, fertilizer and weed killer was 65,000 baht.

This year There was only weed killer and fertilizer and she is cutting it by herself with whatever help she can find. She is only about a third done, so no firm figures are available yet. So far it looks to be about 14 ton per rai.

[ozzydom]

It is impossible to give any real advice to the OPs questions without a lot more detail.

Topography of land,relationship of river to proposed "hole' to planted area etc.

Machinery available,do they have a tractor or tak tak (iron buffalo).

Is the crop to be planted up and down slope (if any )or contour planted.

Situating a pond at a higher level than the crop allows cheaper options for irrigating purposes,for instance, then a high volume cheap longtail pump driven by tak tak as Gary uses is an option.

The next cheapest option is a 3 or 4 inch centrifigal driven by a petrol engine, fairly economical to buy but benzine use would be about 500 baht day (24 hour).

Fish should be the last consideration ,at least until water useage is well established, it is a waste of money to put fish in a pond then find you have to pump the pond out for irrigating and have the fish dying in the mud.

[Gary A]

If you want to raise fish you will have to have the pond guarded or at least live on the same property. I have posted before that my wife stocked this pond and fed the fish until they were big enough to survive on their own with very limited feeding. I never saw a single fish floating so there was very little if any mortality. I have posted this a couple of times before.

Before we irrigated the rice, I took some fish pellets to that pond and didn't see a single fish feeding. My wife assembled dip nets and buckets to get the fish when the pond was pumped dry. She was quite irritated with me when I told her there were no fish left in the pond. I still have no idea how they got every single fish but when the pond was dry, there was not a single fish in there.

We did take advantage of the drained pond and made it bigger and deeper. I mention that because the excavator guy told us he would be able to sell the dirt. There was a several meter high mound around most of the pond. We were not able to even give the dirt away. Five years later most of the dirt has been given away but there is still a lot left. This is the first year that they used that dirt for a fairly big project. Before that there were just a few loads hauled away once in a while.

[ozzydom]

What a <deleted> way for a farang to spend Xmas Eve and Xmas Day.

Yesterday we took an order for 100kg to be picked up at midnight so they could start cooking for a big local wedding,that plus other orders for 5-10 kg lots meant catching all day yesterday.

Trouble is,it coincided with that particular pond being close to finished, at which stage we start to pump the pond down and jump in the mud to drag a seine net to catch the last fish with.

Last night ,late ,I thought ,Ah well thats out of the way, I can cook a stew for Chrissy dinner (athiests turkey ) , buggar me,this morning the same customer turns up saying they had eaten the 100kg and wanted another 75kg ,thats right ,back into the mud for Xmas Day.

Guess life wasnt meant to be easy.

Will be glad to get on that plane to Cambodia on the 9th.for my annual holiday at the beach.

Ah , glittering sand instead of mud.

[joker7]

Thanks for the info. The hole he's planning will be I imagine no more than 20 ft or so from the river. He'll probably just stretch it length wise parallel to the river to limit the amount of land we loose. The dirt will then be taken to fill in another hole we have on the other side of the property which is next to a seasonal river.

Im guessing the height from the bottom of the river to the land is around 20 ft. There is no electric nearby so my guess is he would buy diesel pump 4-6" diameter. All 72 Rai of land is flat. No hills to speak of. Just opposite on the other side of the road ive heard Chang Beer Company has purchased 300 Rai of land what for im not sure. However the land is flat for miles around.

Do you think 4-6" diameter pump would be sufficient / Is there really a need to buy a sprinkler system?

Joker

[Scully]

We use the smallest kind of petrol pump on the market to irrigate 1/2 rai, we bough it for pig cleaning but thought sod it and planted 30 odd guava.

[ozzydom]

Joker7, Irrigation of fairly large areas such as you envisage is a complex and technical area that it would be outside the knowledge of we laymen.

Conditions such as soil type,topography, planting methods, water supply must all be taken into account and pre planning is paramount.

For flood (furrow ) irrigation ,a hilling plough is almost essential to maintain the furrows,and the planted area must be laid out in a manner to suit that form of irrigation.

Sprinklers would be ok early in the growth stage but as the cane grows it becomes harder to get the water to the root zone where it is needed and much moisture is lost through evaporation and effects of wind.

Drip systems seem to be gaining support but are expensive to buy and need constant maintenance.

One of the cheapest layouts for flood irrigation is the use of a holding canal along the highest point of the planted area (must be level ) which is kept full by pumping from water source,

Water is delivered to the highest end of the furrows by siphoning with lengths of 2inch poly pipe.

A square 80 rai area would have perimetre lengths of about 360 metres on each side , there are large sprinklers available which could be used ,it just means a lot of moving them around.

[slapout]

The suggestion of ditch on high side of property with siphon hose to put water down the furrows would be fairly easy, reliable, fast and economical. The initial flow of water will require some directing/cleaning along the furrows, then its a easy job, in between other chores on the farm..

This method does require a slightly sloping field prior to planting, for the gravity flow of water. We used a (land leveler) once the soil was prepared for planting to dress the field. We did a lot of flood irrigation for alfalfa, thus the leveler was available for our use, although not necessary if the land lay correctly.

A 4 inch stream of water would take care of about 20 to 25 siphon points..