Uk Passsports

[VisasPlus]

Sometime ago I mentioned that I had written to the Identity and passport Service ( IPS ) asking them why, now that British passports are all issued in the UK, the cost of applying for a passport overseas is still almost double the cost of applying in the UK itself. It seems that the actual processing of the passport is still done overseas, and it is only the printing of the passport that is done in the UK. This is the response fom IPS :

The Regional Passport Processing Centre in Hong Kong will still process your passport application. The passport is only printed in the United Kingdom to ensure that you receive the new style passports which were introduced in the UK in October 2010.

That seemed to be a resaonable explanation but I responded to IPS, asking if, when their plan to transfer all of the processing of passports to the UK happens ( in 2012/13, according to their business plan ), could we expect to pay the same as an applicant applying in the UK ? The IPS Business Plan does say that the whole process will be taken away from FCO overseas and transferred to the UK. I have today recieved another response from IPS.

Further to your request for further clarification into the earlier reply you received, the Identity and Paspport Service (IPS) now produce the passport book in the UK for all for all UK citizens living overseas, to ensure that they receive the same new style passports, with the more sophisticated security features.

During 2012/13 we will commence the process of repatriating to the UK the actual processing of passport applications and cease doing so in the regional hubs currently responsible for processing overseas applications. Our rationale for doing so is that issuing passports to overseas customers from the UK cost base will be more cost effective and our aspiration will be to reduce the fee charged to overseas customers more in line with the fee charged to domestic customers. However, because there will be aspects of the end-to-end process that will still need to be carried out locally to the customer, it is not expected that complete parity of pricing will be achievable.

I don't understand what aspects of the end-to end process will still need to be carried out locally. Applications will, I think, be made via DHL or another courier service, or perhaps even online, so what will be done "locally" ? If anyone knows, can they let me know ?

I will try asking IPS what the local aspects will be, but I'm not expecting a fast reply.

Edited December 21, 2011 by VisasPlus

[theoldgit]

Thanks for the update VP, very interesting.

As we discussed, any local work carried out would probably be carried by locally employed staff so might be expected to cost less than similar work carried out in the UK, I'm looking forward to the day of will be cheaper to a renew a passport overseas :-)

[beano2274]

Where are the local staff, if I apply online direct to the UK?

My understanding was that the whole process would be done from the UK.

Edited December 25, 2011 by beano2274

[VisasPlus]

Where are the local staff, if I apply online direct to the UK?

My understanding was that the whole process would be done from the UK.

The "whole process" will be done from UK according to the IPS website, but the email response from them ( as quoted above ) says that the cost will not be as low for an overseas applicant as a UK applicant as there will be "local enquiries". I have asked what this means, and I will post any response that I get.

[Eff1n2ret]

Where are the local staff, if I apply online direct to the UK?

My understanding was that the whole process would be done from the UK.

The "whole process" will be done from UK according to the IPS website, but the email response from them ( as quoted above ) says that the cost will not be as low for an overseas applicant as a UK applicant as there will be "local enquiries". I have asked what this means, and I will post any response that I get.

Tony, It will certainly be interesting to see what they mean. I have been trying to think of scenarios such as somebody abroad loses their passport and returns on an emergency document, or dies, and the passports are misappropriated to support a renewal application by an impostor, but a properly centralised system should be able to pick up any such anomalies, so it's difficult to see what "local enquiries" can be made.

I really must renew my efforts to prove my entitlement to my de facto Irish nationality. Their passports are a lot cheaper.

[steve187]

The cost should be the same, but with an increase in the delivery charges,

i do not think passports are delivered by royal mail in the UK anymore, but one of the other delivery services.

[VisasPlus]

Where are the local staff, if I apply online direct to the UK?

My understanding was that the whole process would be done from the UK.

The "whole process" will be done from UK according to the IPS website, but the email response from them ( as quoted above ) says that the cost will not be as low for an overseas applicant as a UK applicant as there will be "local enquiries". I have asked what this means, and I will post any response that I get.

Tony, It will certainly be interesting to see what they mean. I have been trying to think of scenarios such as somebody abroad loses their passport and returns on an emergency document, or dies, and the passports are misappropriated to support a renewal application by an impostor, but a properly centralised system should be able to pick up any such anomalies, so it's difficult to see what "local enquiries" can be made.

I really must renew my efforts to prove my entitlement to my de facto Irish nationality. Their passports are a lot cheaper.

It does make you wonder, John. Is it just an excuse for keeping the price higher ? I'll be interested to see what their reply says.

Edited December 25, 2011 by VisasPlus

[VisasPlus]

Where are the local staff, if I apply online direct to the UK?

My understanding was that the whole process would be done from the UK.

The "whole process" will be done from UK according to the IPS website, but the email response from them ( as quoted above ) says that the cost will not be as low for an overseas applicant as a UK applicant as there will be "local enquiries". I have asked what this means, and I will post any response that I get.

Tony, It will certainly be interesting to see what they mean. I have been trying to think of scenarios such as somebody abroad loses their passport and returns on an emergency document, or dies, and the passports are misappropriated to support a renewal application by an impostor, but a properly centralised system should be able to pick up any such anomalies, so it's difficult to see what "local enquiries" can be made.

I really must renew my efforts to prove my entitlement to my de facto Irish nationality. Their passports are a lot cheaper.

It does make you wonder, John. Is it just an excuse for keeping the price higher ? I'll be interested to see what their reply says.

I have now received a further response to my query :

"I am sorry that we have not so far provided a response to your satisfaction. As previously stated, our aspiration is that customers living overseas will ultimately pay a fee as far as possible the same as that paid by customers in the UK for a like for like service, but it is unlikely that we will be able to achieve absolute parity. One reason for this is connected with ensuring the integrity and security of the end-to end application process which will still require us to locate some passport staff overseas.Another reason relates to the cost of returning supporting documents and delivering the new book to customers overseas, which will again always be more expensive due to distance.

However, we shall be seeking to keep these costs to a minimum, such that overseas customers can benefit as far as possible from the much reduced cost base resulting from integrating the basic end-to-end process into the UK. We are currently not able to outline the actual costs or eventual fee itself because the actual process is still being developed, but I can confirm that, before finalising the fee, we will, as is the usual process, be subject to HM Treasury scrutiny."

I'm not sure that this reply actually answers the question I asked. Firstly, IPS now say that they will still have passport staff around the world. How many, and for what ? Probably for application verifications, but why are overseas passport applicants paying for this ? Secondly, why should the cost of sending the passport to an applicant overseas be factored into the passport fee ? There will no doubt be an additional charge for postage, so that looks like a double whammy. I might write to them again, but their replies begin to look more and more like "smoke and mirrors ".

[theoldgit]

I think you have hit the nail on the head there regarding the cost of staff spread around the globe VP, how many and to do what?

I thought the Business Plan indicated that applications would be done online, presumably to the UK. So it beggars the question, what information is held on UK national overseas and what checks are these staff able/required to do?

I also agree with your point about postage, you are aware that the cost of postage is included for UK applications, so the only extra should be the difference between the UK Courier and the DHL courier.

It's good to see that the costs will be subject to scrutiny by the Treasury, but my experience of Budget Challenge Meetings organised by Treasury Officials is that they only had the interests of The Treasury at heart and not joe public

I agree, smoking mirrors.

Edited January 14, 2012 by theoldgit

[VisasPlus]

A further response from IPS in regard to my question about what staff they intend to keep overseas. I don't think I will get a completely "straight" answer :

Thank you for your further email of 14 January 2012, which has been passed to me for reply.

I am sorry that we have not so far provided a response to your satisfaction and I would like to assure you there is no attempt at a cover up. As previously stated, our aspiration is that customers living overseas will ultimately pay a fee as far as possible the same as that paid by customers in the UK for a like for like service. It is unlikely that we will be able to achieve absolute parity because, to maintain the integrity of the end-to-end application process and combat fraud, we will still require some staff overseas to carry out duties. Such as carrying out interviews and cancelling the old passport prior to handing over the new passport, where customers must retain their passport at all times. This is not an exhaustive list but just some examples of why we will need to retain staff overseas.

We are seeking to keep these costs to a minimum, to enable overseas customers to benefit as far as possible from the much reduced cost base resulting from integrating the basic end-to-end process into the UK. We are currently unable to outline the actual costs or eventual fee itself at the moment because the actual process is still being developed, but the costs for retaining these duties overseas will be included in the costs for the overseas passport and cannot be subsidised by the UK fee.

Edited February 2, 2012 by VisasPlus

[theoldgit]

IPS said........... we will still require some staff overseas to carry out duties. Such as carrying out interviews and cancelling the old passport prior to handing over the new passport, where customers must retain their passport at all times...........these duties overseas will be included in the costs for the overseas passport and cannot be subsidised by the UK fee.

Cancelling the old passport prior to hading over the new passport, where "customers" must retain their passports at all times - like Thailand then?

The passports are sent from the UK, so I suspect that's where they will be cancelled, as for handing over the new passport, I thought the nice man from DHL did that - looks a reply from the left hand, right hand department to me.

Thanks for the update Tony.

[Familyonthemove]

Latest reply from IPS in UK:

"You falang, you rich, hansum man, you pay more, OK"