Uk Driving Test

[cleverD]

Any Thai arriving in the UK can drive on their Thai licence for 1 year but has to take the UK test within the year to carry on driving.The theory driving test has 21 languages supported but Thai is not included.I contacted the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) and asked what the criteria was for supporting a language.They replied as need and demand and were not very forthcoming.I then requested under the freedom of information act the numbers and Nationalities of people who have taken the theory test with voice over support in their Language in the last 2 years.

The results are highlighted by the Kashmiri language which has only had 5 individuals using the voice over feature in the last 2 years.My wife has now managed to pass her theory test in English after the 3rd attempt at £31 a time.The reason for this post is to offer this information to the forum and if enough people request a voice over in Thai ie a lot more than 5 then under the Race Discrimination Act I think that the DSA would be obliged to offer Thai voice over which would help all taking a Theory Test.Below are the details of the DSA and if someone wants to start a campaign to lobby the DSA please feel free.

Driving Standards Agency

PO Box 381

Manchester M50 3UW

email:[email protected]

websites : www.direct.gov.uk

www.dsa.gov.uk

[7by7]

I retired from the profession 5 years ago for health reasons, but I was an ADI for nearly 15 years previous to that and, for obvious reasons, taught a lot of Thais. None of them had any problems with tuition, the theory test nor the practical test as they could all speak English sufficiently well. Any who had difficulties reading English were able to ask for the theory test questions to be read to them in English; I assume this is still an option.

Any ADI, ex or current, will have plenty to say about the Dismal Standards Agency; but maybe on this point they are correct about there being no demand for theory tests in Thai.

However, good luck with your campaign, though with the increasing language requirements for UK visas maybe government departments and agencies will soon be scrapping all the other, non UK, language options available.

[roamer]

If you had done a search you would have found that this was covered only a short while ago. The proposed change is opposite from what you are advocating. This is in response to the growing disquiet over drivers being unfamiliar with road signs and other issues. Whatever the reasons, you are swimming against the tide, the mood in the UK is to make people use English more, not less. Rightly so in my opinion.

[cleverD]

If you had done a search you would have found that this was covered only a short while ago. The proposed change is opposite from what you are advocating. This is in response to the growing disquiet over drivers being unfamiliar with road signs and other issues. Whatever the reasons, you are swimming against the tide, the mood in the UK is to make people use English more, not less. Rightly so in my opinion.

My post was for information purposes and if you had a wife who wanted to try the theory test I am sure she would welcome the assistance of being able to listen to the questions in Thai.

The languages available are:

Albanian

Arabic

Bengali

Dari

Spanish-Castilian

Farsi

Gujurati

Hindu

Kashmiri

Kurdish

Mirpuri

Punjabi

Polish

Portuguese

Pushto

Tamil

Turkish

Urdu

Cantonaese

I feel there is no reason why Thai cannot be made available when any Thai migrating to the UK is sponsered by a UK resident but if you reserch some of the above languages you will find that many are Afghan dialects used by refuges in this Country and being supported by you and me.So why not stop being so negative in your posts and think before you use the keyboard !!!

[7by7]

The DSA will no doubt say that the languages they have provided are those for which there is the most demand, and if any language is not on the list it is because there is too little demand for it; which as I explained above is certainly my experience with Thai.

If your language is not on the list of voiceovers you can ask for a translator to assist you; although you will need to pay their fee.

why not stop being so negative in your posts and think before you use the keyboard !!!

Disagreeing with you is not being negative! It is merely taking a different point of view. If you cannot be civil to people who disagree with you I suggest that you leave your keyboard alone.

[roamer]

Unlike yourself I do research before I post;

"In total, 93,407 car driving theory tests were sat in a foreign language last year. There were 18,927 Urdu tests last year, 12,905 in Polish and 298 in Albanian.

Last night, Mike Penning, a transport minister, said that the Government was studying how to change the rules to ban the “politically correct” foreign language tests.

_{“I find it incredible that Labour thought it was a good idea to let people without a basic grasp of English loose on our roads,” he said. “Road safety should be our priority, not political correctness.}

_{The taxpayer meets the cost of translating the various driving theory tests into foreign languages – although people must meet the cost of paying for their own translator during the practical test. In total, about seven percent of all theory tests are not conducted in English."}

_{http://www.telegraph...l#disqus_thread}

_{That is why I said you were swimming against the tide, I already knew that moves were afoot to make applicants take the theory test in English. You could get everyone on this forum, and their uncles, to join your petition and it won't make a jot of difference.}

_{Only Dari and Pashto are amongst the languages on your list that are spoken in Afghanistan. Hardly the point though is it .}

I believe if you need to take a UK theory test you should do so in English and I'm happy that the present system is likely to change.

I also think your proposed "campaign" fails to take into account the changes to the test that come into force next month when the rote learning method will no longer be effective.

" From 23 January 2012 the theory test will be made up of multiple-choice questions which are no longer published in learning materials.

The reason behind the move is to stop candidates from simply memorising theory test questions and answers and learning by rote."

That is going to require a wider and deeper understanding of the highway code than the present system. it is also likely to require better English language skills to acquire the knowledge.

Lastly, I do have a Thai wife. She took and passed her test in English and wouldn't have had it any other way. Just one of the small steps that have helped her integrate fully into life in the UK.

Mods. Sorry for non-uniform text, my copy/paste is all over the place with the new layout.

Edited December 24, 2011 by roamer

[7by7]

Small clarification; unless the rules have changed since my day.

If you want a translator to assist you with the theory test they must be on the DSA approved list; to prevent cheating you cannot bring a friend with you.

However, for the practical test you may bring a friend. But if they speak when the examiner hasn't then the examiner will assume that they are giving instruction to the candidate and the test will be abandoned. Never happened to me, but I know of instances where it did to colleagues.

Some people do have peculiar expectations. I remember someone's first lesson. after only a few minutes it was obvious that he did not understand a word I was saying. We returned to his home where I spoke to his brother-in-law and I said i could only teach the guy if someone came to translate. The brother-in-law said "He understands left, right, straight on; what more does he need!"

[RAZZELL]

The brother-in-law said "He understands left, right, straight on; what more does he need!"

Brake!

RAZZ

[sumrit]

There's one thing about the rules in the UK that has always seemed illogical to me. Any foreigner can come to the UK and drive with a foreign licence for one year. Now I'm sure our Government wouldn't want to make our roads less safe so, by allowing this, they are saying that, as long as somebody has a licence from their own country they are considered qualified and safe enough to drive in the UK even though they have no experience of driving there. Then, after they have gained a full year's experience (which is probably more than most learners have before passing their test), they are told they are not considered good enough to drive in the UK any more and must pass the UK test first.

If a person is good enough to drive when they first arrive in the UK surely gaining a years experience can only make them better, and if they've got to prove they're good enough why allow them to drive for a year first.

Seems a totally arse about face and illogical way of doing things to me.

[7by7]

If no one was allowed to drive in The UK unless they had a UK licence then this would mean tourists would be unable to do so; which would be silly. Would you like it if you could not drive whilst on holiday in Thailand because you did not have a Thai licence?

Anyone with a foreign licence can drive in the UK for a year. For visitors the year starts on their last entry, but for residents it starts on their first entry with their settlement visa.

Those coming to UK to live do not have to wait until the year is up before taking their UK tests; they can apply for a provisional licence and take the tests at any time. Obvioulsy it is better to do so before the end of their first year so that they can continue driving without a break.

See Driving on licences from all other countries, and students on a foreign licence for the full conditions.

NB, I say UK above, but what I have said, and linked to, applies to Great Britian; slightly different rules apply in Northern Island, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

[sumrit]

If no one was allowed to drive in The UK unless they had a UK licence then this would mean tourists would be unable to do so; which would be silly. Would you like it if you could not drive whilst on holiday in Thailand because you did not have a Thai licence?

In Thailand not only do they recognize the full UK licence to enable tourists to drive here on holiday they will also issue a full Thai licence to foreigners resident in Thailand on production of their full licence from their home country (providing they pass eyesight, perception and reaction tests), they don't need to pass another (theory and practical) driving test.

My point is that if a foreign licence is recognized by the UK Government as showing a person can drive to a certain standard and that standard is acceptable for them to drive safely in the UK (for up to a year) then they should also be able to change it for a UK licence at the end of that year, without having to pass a test. If the Government are saying these people must take a test because their driving is (possibly) not up to the required standard then they should not allow them to drive in the UK period, tourist/short term visitor or not. If these drivers are not competent they are putting UK road users at risk (and that's not 'silly').

Edited December 24, 2011 by sumrit

[7by7]

So you think that either tourists should not be able to drive in the UK or all foreign licence holders should be able to drive in the UK indefinitely regardless of their competence.

IMHO, either option is what is silly; you think differently.

[sumrit]

So you think that either tourists should not be able to drive in the UK or all foreign licence holders should be able to drive in the UK indefinitely regardless of their competence.

IMHO, either option is what is silly; you think differently.

If somebody is incompetent, tourist or otherwise, they are a potential danger on UK roads so shouldn't be allowed to drive there. If somebody is considered competent to drive in the UK WHY MAKE THEM GO THROUGH ANOTHER TEST?

As a former driving instructor 7by7 I would have thought you of all people would be advocating ALL drivers should be competent before being allowed to drive, at any time, on the UK roads by themselves.

How can you say an incompetent foreign driver should be allowed to drive in the UK and put other road users at risk just because they are a tourist?

[7by7]

Firstly I do not believe drivers to be incompetent merely because they are foreign; the majority of incompetent drivers on the UK's roads are Brits who have passed their GB test and think that they now know everything! Like the parent of one of my pupils who told his son that after the test he, the father, would take him out and teach him to drive properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Secondly, the UK has signed up to various international agreements which allow foreign licence holders to drive in the UK and UK licence holders to drive abroad. Banning foreign licence holders from driving in the UK would mean leaving these agreements which would mean UK licence holders could not drive outside the UK.

Obviously, I am strongly in favour of proper driver training, which is why I am in favour of the changes to the GB driving test over the years to make it harder. The requirement for foreign licence holders who are UK residents to pass a UK test within one year of their arrival if they wish to continue to drive in the UK means that they will be seeking instruction and, if necessary, their standard of driving will improve.

Remember that in order to drive they must hold a licence for the category of vehicle; and to automatically assume that just because they obtained that licence outside the UK makes them incompetent is somewhat arrogant of you. Most foreign tests are of a similar, or better, standard than the UK's. There are exceptions; one being the USA where driving tests are ridiculously easy.

Think about it for a second. Who would be better at dealing with London traffic; a Thai who has been driving around Bangkok for the last 5 years or a Brit who passed their test in a rural area and has never driving in city traffic?

[sumrit]

to automatically assume that just because they obtained that licence outside the UK makes them incompetent is somewhat arrogant of you. Most foreign tests are of a similar, or better, standard than the UK's. There are exceptions; one being the USA where driving tests are ridiculously easy.

Think about it for a second. Who would be better at dealing with London traffic; a Thai who has been driving around Bangkok for the last 5 years or a Brit who passed their test in a rural area and has never driving in city traffic?

7by7, I think you've misread my posts, it's not me that's suggested foreign drivers are incompetent, far from it. From your posts, by insisting a foreigner must take a UK test even though they had a full licence from their own country, I thought you must be questioning their competence.

I may not have used these exact words but, if you look, I said that if a foreigner has passed a test in his own country and is therefore considered competent to to drive in the UK to then tell him after a year that he is no longer competent and must pass a UK test to continue driving is illogical. I further said that if that person is competent then the UK should do something along the same lines as Thailand and issue him with a UK licence on production of his foreign licence without having to pass a UK test. You called this point 'silly'. Now as the sole purpose of the UK driving test is to prove competence to drive in the UK, and that person was considered competent during the first year I asked you 'at what point you you consider that person became 'incompetent'?

I further tried to say that if you insist it's right a foreigner should prove his competence by taking a UK test then you can't be happy with his competence in the first place. If you're therefore unhappy with his competence, then on the grounds of safety, you should be arguing that he shouldn't be allowed to drive in the UK in the first place. You also called that point 'silly' but I thought you were being irresponsible if you, as a former driving instructor, were saying the drivers whose competence you were questioning should still be allowed to drive on the UK roads.

If I've got it wrong and you are saying foreign drivers are competent when they first come to the UK I apologise, but then I can't understand your logic in insisting it's right those competent people must then take a UK test.

[steve187]

There's one thing about the rules in the UK that has always seemed illogical to me. Any foreigner can come to the UK and drive with a foreign licence for one year. Now I'm sure our Government wouldn't want to make our roads less safe so, by allowing this, they are saying that, as long as somebody has a licence from their own country they are considered qualified and safe enough to drive in the UK even though they have no experience of driving there. Then, after they have gained a full year's experience (which is probably more than most learners have before passing their test), they are told they are not considered good enough to drive in the UK any more and must pass the UK test first.

If a person is good enough to drive when they first arrive in the UK surely gaining a years experience can only make them better, and if they've got to prove they're good enough why allow them to drive for a year first.

Seems a totally arse about face and illogical way of doing things to me.

a very very good point and in line with my views on the subject

[steve187]

A Thai coming to the UK on a settlement visa can drive on their Thai licence for 12 months without any restrictions being placed on them, if during that 12 months they obtain a provisional Uk licence, they can drive on that new licence without having to comply with the restrictions placed on a provisional licence holder, if they fail to pass a driving test within the original 1 year period, then they do need to conform to the restrictions placed on a provisional licence holder, Where is the logic in that?

[arthurwait]

Firstly I do not believe drivers to be incompetent merely because they are foreign; the majority of incompetent drivers on the UK's roads are Brits who have passed their GB test and think that they now know everything! Like the parent of one of my pupils who told his son that after the test he, the father, would take him out and teach him to drive properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Secondly, the UK has signed up to various international agreements which allow foreign licence holders to drive in the UK and UK licence holders to drive abroad. Banning foreign licence holders from driving in the UK would mean leaving these agreements which would mean UK licence holders could not drive outside the UK.

Obviously, I am strongly in favour of proper driver training, which is why I am in favour of the changes to the GB driving test over the years to make it harder. The requirement for foreign licence holders who are UK residents to pass a UK test within one year of their arrival if they wish to continue to drive in the UK means that they will be seeking instruction and, if necessary, their standard of driving will improve.

Remember that in order to drive they must hold a licence for the category of vehicle; and to automatically assume that just because they obtained that licence outside the UK makes them incompetent is somewhat arrogant of you. Most foreign tests are of a similar, or better, standard than the UK's. There are exceptions; one being the USA where driving tests are ridiculously easy.

Think about it for a second. Who would be better at dealing with London traffic; a Thai who has been driving around Bangkok for the last 5 years or a Brit who passed their test in a rural area and has never driving in city traffic?

I agree with most your post, but not this.

The Brit in the rural area who can drive on country roads would get my vote everytime, also over people who live in UK cities.

Definitely not a Thai whose driving test involved driving in a circle, a couple of parking manouveres and a theory test they can keep taking until they guess enough answers correctly. Who thinks driving through red lights is ok, who has no idea how to use a roundabut, who thinks the hard shoulder is an extra lane, who has no regard for the speed limit, who are happy to drive about pissed, who think flashing their lights means I'm going to fast and not bothering to slow down or stop, not I'm giving way to you (yes I know it's not meant to mean that, but it's accepted practice). Not a Thai who thinks it's ok to drive the wrong way down the road as they can't be bothered to go to the next U-turn. Not a Thai who thinks matching the engine and chasis number is a road worthiness test. Not a Thai who thinks I can't be bothered to walk 30 metres more so will just park my car in the second lane.

The Thai driving test is ridiculously easy and the above are all standard practices in Thailand. I maybe lumping everyone in the same basket, but lets be honest the standard of driving in Thailand is beyond appalling

[chris22]

Seen many people take there test and fail dismally sometimes test terminated within 10 to 15 mins .get out of car remove L Plates then carry on again till they try again think the rules are stupid if attempt a test and fail then end of driving on Foreign Licence until they can pass a UK test.

Also Instructor can now interpret on Driving Test if a foriegn national taking test.

Edited December 25, 2011 by chris22

[Richard W]

I also think your proposed "campaign" fails to take into account the changes to the test that come into force next month when the rote learning method will no longer be effective.

" From 23 January 2012 the theory test will be made up of multiple-choice questions which are no longer published in learning materials.

The reason behind the move is to stop candidates from simply memorising theory test questions and answers and learning by rote."

That is going to require a wider and deeper understanding of the highway code than the present system. it is also likely to require better English language skills to acquire the knowledge.

Lastly, I do have a Thai wife. She took and passed her test in English and wouldn't have had it any other way. Just one of the small steps that have helped her integrate fully into life in the UK.

A useful step would be to allow translations of the highway code. It's a huge document to commission a private translation of. A consequence of the lack of translation is that my wife passed the theory test by memorising the answers without ever reading the highway code.