Rototilling

[old wanderer]

I have been doing my best to keep a chia dee, but dealing with the in-laws and our farm is driving me a bit crazy.

We are farming 40 rai in irrigated vegitables. The soil is a heavy adobe. I wanted to buy a rototiller, but got so much pushback about it was not how Thai people farm. Just need to plow with a disk plow and throw the seed......

I used to have a 5000 acre ranch, and farmed about 600 of it. So I do have some knowlege of this stuff. I used to have a 8' 100 HP rototiller that I really loved what it did.

Been looking for a 40 HP tractor to operate a rototiller. Found a like new rototiller for 30k baht. Finally I told the inlaws, that I wanted to buy what I want, and will use it when I come to do some things. They can just store it for me.

Why they cannot see the advantage of rototilling and having a great sead bed is beyond me.

If I ever pull the plug and move over here full time, guess I will have to explain too them it is MY FARM, MY INVESTMENT, and I will do it my way. (Well at least the wife will have too).

[ETC]

Hi Old Wanderer! Not to sure I would discount the old Thai methods regarding clay farming too quickly. As a roto tiller myself I can honestly say that I find the big disadvantage of roto tilling in clay is it makes the soil worse at the bottom of it's reach. The tines rub the clay smooth and make hardpan. One ends up with 6-8" of loose soil and a nearly impenetrable hardpan under it. Hardpan can be broken up over time via biological activity in response to the addition of compost and other organic material, but why create it in the first place? The Thai's reasoning for using a disc plow may have a practical side in clay soil farming. I too have a piece of ground that is heavy clay and i want to do some farming there. I have pretty much decided that I will disc plow the area first , then add triple-ground wood chips and till that to the desired texture I desire, and disc plow, add more triple-ground woodchips and till annually, along with other nutrient rich mulch. I figure after the 3rd year of doing this the soil will be such that no disc plowing will be needed and Tilling will be the norm. I'm anxious to see the 1st, 2nd and 3rd year harvests. This is just my approach, as their are many other accepted methods. Good luck on your project.

Edited December 26, 2011 by ETC

[kwonitoy]

OW

Yes you'll find it an uphill battle trying to talk and convince your family about your methods.

I grew up on a farm in western Canada and when trying to get the wife to try new things was like talking to the trees.

I've learned over the years to just do what I want and I don't care about local opinion. Now when people look at the rubber we've planted and how well it does they say it's because the falang has money to spend. But some are seeing the use of what I do with my equipment

When I bought my 45 hp tractor I got the usuall 5 disc plow and also a rotoriller, the wife couldn't see the use of it but as I was paying for it she didn't say much. When it was delivered I rototilled some wet rice paddy land and bingo, ready for planting. Not necessary to plow with a tak tak and then break the lumps up with the harrow attachment. To give her credit when she sees something work she will admit to not really knowing much about farming, just goes with what her family says. Well in the six years I've been up here I've realized her family is even by Issan standards, a bunch of horrible farmers. Now in the pre rice planting season everyone wants there land rototilled and there have been several bought by the locals as well. When they see something work they'll go for it.

I think one advantage I do have is living here full time and working my son's land to visibly good effect. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. Also I don't have to deal with in-laws, we have bought and own all our land so the extended family doesn't get a vote.

After two years of working with my own equipment, and taking the wife to Canada and showing hows its done there she's a believer in what I now suggest.

Best of luck to you

Ken

[Gary A]

I have a thirty one HP Yanmar four wheel drive. (EF 312). I can tell you that it runs a 60 inch tiller with power to spare.

[drtreelove]

Where's MaiseFarmer when we need him, the agricultural engineer?

I ran, and trained village men as operators, an agricultural tractor service in India and learned that one reason rototilling is questioned, from an economic standpoint, in addition to the high cost of the implement itself, is that, compared with other tractor drawn implements, it is one of the most expensive operations in regard to time and fuel. Disc plow is also an expensive operation because it takes a lot of power to move and turn that much soil (and also can glaze a hardpan, although not as bad as a mouldboard plow). A plow does not leave a smooth surface for a seed bed, and an additional operation is required to break up the clods and smooth the soil surface. A disc harrow is less expensive, because it just dices the surface soil, slashes the crop residue better and leaves a smoother surface than a plow. But it can also glaze a hardpan if operated at the same depth repeatedly.

In orchards, a disc harrow is least disruptive to deep lateral roots if operated at shallow levels, but can significantly damage surface roots and disrupt absorption of water and nutrients. That's why no-till farming is best for small scale orchards.

Classic reads on altenatives to plowing:

Edward Faulkner, Plowman's Folly

Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution and others

And then there is the Thai-style rototiller:

[WatersEdge]

Hi Gents,

I own a Thailand made V-Tech RotoTiller powered by a 14hp Kubota Diesel engine.

It is a walk behind two wheel, with iron paddy wheels

It cuts a 1 meter wide swath beautifully.

It is for sale in Mae Sot at B60,000

I paid B30,000 for the machine and B45,000 for the engine new.

I put around 30 hours on the machine.

Replacement Tines are available for around B3,000 per 14 pc set

It is a heavy beast, very cumbersome to load into a pickup truck,

so I also built sturdy steel channel ramps with angle cleats,

which bolt into your truck tailgate mounts.

This makes loading perfectly safe and worry free.

The engine was used also as a water pump engine,

and a Kubota tractor engine,

so the total hours are several hundred.

Every year I was granted the opportunity to rebuild at least one Kubota pump engine,

when it was not pulled from the riverbank high enough to avoid the flood.

So all my Kubota engines are in finely rebuilt condition.

(Grimace with a smile of job well done)

Good news is that a complete rebuild on the Kubota diesels costs B4,000

and you are back to new condition on the inside.

It is a beautiful machine

after I replaced bearings

par for the course with all new Thai equipment coming from the factory with junk bearings

even though high quality sealed Japan replacement bearings are readily available off the shelf.

Photos available at these links, low quality as they are:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwPGvzS9DL-JNmZkYjcxNmEtYTYxZS00OGRjLTllYzAtYTRhZmRlNWEyYzQ3

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwPGvzS9DL-JYjA3YmQyODMtZjA4ZS00MTQ2LWFhMjUtMDQ4YzI0NzM3OTAy

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwPGvzS9DL-JNzg5MDU5NWEtNzM2Zi00ZWQwLTliMWEtZDk1N2ZmNWFhNjRh

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwPGvzS9DL-JNmVjMjEwYzItMDA3YS00ZDUzLTg4Y2UtODQ3MzVjN2Q3Mjgy

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwPGvzS9DL-JZDQyMTRhOGEtYWZmOC00YTJjLTlmZWItNjVkMDBjOTljZjE4

Depth of cut is adjustable from a mere surface scratch to a maximum of 0.25m, 10 inches.

The tines in present wear condition will cut about 0.20m, 8 inches.

The advantage of a rototiller is that it leaves a smooth perfectly prepared surface.

In tall grass, the long stems wad on the rotor,

taking all the fun from the day,

so long stuff has to be slashed and removed from the field first.

It is a physical workout to operate...a high impact gym on wheels you might say.

If the machine is run to full power continually, it will keep 4 men at the edge of exhaustion.

If run at full capacity, it will completely transform half rai per hour.

I'm happy to field questions, and of course would love to transfer ownership.

[ray23]

Anyone ran across a small garden rototiller?

I've looked around Udoon no luck so far.