Thai Policeman Kills Six Fellow Officers After Drinking Session

[Scott]

A nasty, insensitive and uninformative post has been deleted.

[whybother]

According to the British FCO, the murder rate of Britons in Thailand is five times that of Britons at home

Please back that up with a link ... I won't hold my breath. Drunk Brits getting themselves killed on motorbikes while not wearing helmets is not a murder.

Are you really trying to suggest that near 4,000 Britts (more than the total number of all murders in all Thailand in a typical year) are murdered in Thailand every year? There are about 700 to 800 murders in the UK every year.

The fact that Britts get them selves killed while while on vacation in Thailand is everything to do with Britts having a problem controlling themselves on holiday when given too much freedom and little to do with violent Thai police or people..

The murder rate in Thailand (as well as many countries) is much higher (possibly 5x) than Britain and if you are trying to extrapolate information by way of number of Britts in Thailand and number murdered here ... that would be insane and make no sense what-so-ever. It only makes sense while in a country that the similar crime rates will hold true for you.

"Rate"

[Oberkommando]

According to the British FCO, the murder rate of Britons in Thailand is five times that of Britons at home

Please back that up with a link ... I won't hold my breath. Drunk Brits getting themselves killed on motorbikes while not wearing helmets is not a murder.

Are you really trying to suggest that near 4,000 Britts (more than the total number of all murders in all Thailand in a typical year) are murdered in Thailand every year? There are about 700 to 800 murders in the UK every year.

The fact that Britts get them selves killed while while on vacation in Thailand is everything to do with Britts having a problem controlling themselves on holiday when given too much freedom and little to do with violent Thai police or people..

The murder rate in Thailand (as well as many countries) is much higher (possibly 5x) than Britain and if you are trying to extrapolate information by way of number of Britts in Thailand and number murdered here ... that would be insane and make no sense what-so-ever. It only makes sense while in a country that the similar crime rates will hold true for you.

The links have been posted here many times from articles in the Telegraph, Guardian and the Independent newspapers among others.

The specific quote is about the murder rate of Britons in Thailand and nothing to do with road accidents (fatalities of course over 10-20 times more common on Thai roads given that the two countries have similar population sizes). Also see this link for Thai road traffic accident rates contributing to making Thailand 2nd worst in the World for tourists being killed on the roads. http://www.livingtha...sts-to-die.html

"Thailand is the place where British tourists are most likely to get into the sort of trouble that requires consular assistance. For a start, more British tourists die there than anywhere else. Some 224 Britons died in Thailand between April 2005 and March last year (article published in 2007) - a toll five times higher than in the second deadliest tourist destination, India. "Most of those deaths are of long-term elderly British residents," says a Foreign Office spokesman. But not all of them. Among those 224 Britons was student Katherine Horton, 21, who was raped and murdered by two fishermen in January last year on Koh Samui."

http://www.guardian....l/2007/aug/03/1

The original article from the Independent newspaper that specifically mentions the FCO and murder rates of Britons in Thailand is on another forum but cannot link to from here.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Oberkommando

[Oberkommando]

At present FCO information regarding deaths in Thailand is limited. Andy Pearce, the deputy head of mission at the British Embassy in Bangkok, admits that the murder rate of Britons resident in Thailand is about the same as the domestic Thai rate – roughly five times higher than in the UK – but adds that this is only an estimate. (There are thought to be about 50,000 British resident in the country at present.) "To create the kind of advice needed on murder rates would require a greater statistical base and more research," he says.

Lots of nice info here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/with-so-many-britons-murdered-in-thailand-why-does-our-government-not-warn-of-the-dangers-faced-there-769640.html

[sbk]

What does the number of Brits who die in Thailand have to do with this thread in any way, shape, or form?

Back on topic please

[Ned]

Just told my wife about this story. She replied,"Good." Should I divorce her?

[Ned]

I should add that the story I referred to was about the Thai cop shooting his comrades......not the murders of foreigners here.

[Oberkommando]

I should add that the story I referred to was about the Thai cop shooting his comrades......not the murders of foreigners here.

You'll find little sympathy from my Thai friends for any misfortune that befalls Thai Policemen, such is the distrust and animosity towards them.

[Ijustwannateach]

There was a question earlier on in this thread about why the police didn't have to turn in their weapons when off-duty.

If I recall correctly, back in the good old days of Thaksin's 'Kill The Drug Dealers And Nearby Children' policy, an eight year old boy died in crossfire during a shootout among the erstwhile 'police' and 'drug dealers'. When an investigation was demanded, the police said there was no way to tell whose bullet had hit the child because the police had to buy their own guns and there was no registry.

If that was in fact true, then the reason the police don't hand in their guns is obvious; the weapons are their private property.

[hanuman1]

There was a question earlier on in this thread about why the police didn't have to turn in their weapons when off-duty.

If I recall correctly, back in the good old days of Thaksin's 'Kill The Drug Dealers And Nearby Children' policy, an eight year old boy died in crossfire during a shootout among the erstwhile 'police' and 'drug dealers'. When an investigation was demanded, the police said there was no way to tell whose bullet had hit the child because the police had to buy their own guns and there was no registry.

If that was in fact true, then the reason the police don't hand in their guns is obvious; the weapons are their private property.

It is true. Policemen do have to buy their own guns. If they can't afford one, they can take out a loan.

You only need to go into a police station and see the variety of hand guns on hips as evidence of a lack of standard issue.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Scott

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My Thai wife has the same opinion of Thai police as expressed above... and it's one I discovered she firmly held long before ever meeting me... And she's never ever had any personal involvement/trouble with them. So it seems to be a widely held Thai opinion, at least among the common folks, that the BIB are in fact what they are. The average Thai people know it and see it.

As for the buying their own guns deal... amazing... Never knew that... But then again, with the money that officers make from their skim of things, perhaps the department's view is... why should the government be paying for such things as guns when you guys are pulling in wads of cash anyway.

[rjcampbe]

Tragic story and my condolences to the families.

What on earth are they doing drinking alcohol on Police premises even if they were off duty? We are subject to drug and alcohol testing, randomly and we definately cannot have any alcohol on the premises, even unopened.

You have obviously never been to Thailand... :-)

[moskito]

No surprise to find the usual suspects rushing to the defend the honour of the Kingdom of Thailand using any means necessary including flawed Thai Police statistics to try and prove their points. A police force that a UN report in 2009 condemned for their actions and journalists inferred that they were nothing more than 'organised criminals'........

Hmmmmm, at least in EVERY other country in the world you have the Mafia on one side and the Police on the other..... Good to know there is one part missing in Thailand

[soundman]

There was a question earlier on in this thread about why the police didn't have to turn in their weapons when off-duty.

If I recall correctly, back in the good old days of Thaksin's 'Kill The Drug Dealers And Nearby Children' policy, an eight year old boy died in crossfire during a shootout among the erstwhile 'police' and 'drug dealers'. When an investigation was demanded, the police said there was no way to tell whose bullet had hit the child because the police had to buy their own guns and there was no registry.

If that was in fact true, then the reason the police don't hand in their guns is obvious; the weapons are their private property.

They do have to buy their own firearms, however not being registered is a complete fallacy, they are all registered to the owner, especially government employees such as police, soldiers, national parks wardens etc, as they all qualify to purchase the weapons tax free. (tax is upwards of 70% of the retail price of a firearm in Thailand)

[Thaddeus]

What is taught to Thai Police recruits. www.newtatics.org

Police training about the use of force and firearms in Thailand so far didn't include much about psychology, only about the technical issues of shooting. So this is completely new and very important. We need to know how are brains are functioning in a situation of potential violence in order to aviod making mistakes. - Thai Police Trainee.

WHAT DOE'S POLICE MEAN?

P - Polite

O - Organised

L - Lawful

I - Intelligent

C - Community - Orientated

E - Educated.

Thai Police Trainee.

Are they told they already are all that, or are they told that is what they should aspire to be?

Link doesn't work btw.

[ajarnmarc]

The Thai's think or like to say that Foreigners can't hold their liquor, well it looks like the same goes across the board. It is true that they think they are above the law, and do very little to uphold the law here. Just interested in how much they can get off of the Foreigners trying to have a good time and enjoy their holiday, never mind upholding the law equally across the regions they serve. I have had several dealing with the Police and they have never been helpful, no matter what the time is you seek their service, it's always best to deal with the matter on our own. So a few got taken out by their own. If it had been at the hands of a foreigner, for sure this would of made front page news.

[Roj]

Machismo, vanity and the inability to hold their drink. It`s a dangerous cocktail that many Thai males are prone to. Keep your head down and some tea money in your pocket just in case.

[waza]

In the article I read it said the shooter went off and returned with an assult rifle then shot the others. " Pol Lt-Col Yongsak Rattanadilok, the company commander, said the men had gathered behind the company headquarters for drinks to celebrate the promotion of some of them from the rank of police senior sergeant-major to sub-lieutenant.

Pol Sr Sgt-Maj Jaras Surasak, 56, who was on duty at the company headquarters, walked up to the gathering and opened fire at them with an HK33 rifle, killing six and seriously wounding a seventh.

Pol Sr Sgt-Maj Jaras then walked to a guard booth nearby and took his own life with the same weapon".

In the picture of the crime scene the bodies are in a line, looks like they were shot as they ran from the canteen, I couldnt see any weapons so my guess is they were all unarmed.

[ginjag]

compare the countries population. approx again, 55 million--USA 455 million.

Eh?

I believe that in 2008 the pop. of the US was just over 300m.

Has it really increased by 50% in the past three years?

I also believe that the pop. of Thailand you give is short by over 10%.

HEY hehehoho, Did you get the meaning of my post, so we take your 100% accuracy --????

60 mill and 300 mill-------- so we still have double the amount of police approx here than USA--per population. agree roughly, now comment on the jist of the post, and stop nit picking re population............... too many BiB here per population---------Thanks.

[hehehoho]

Eh?

I believe that in 2008 the pop. of the US was just over 300m.

Has it really increased by 50% in the past three years?

I also believe that the pop. of Thailand you give is short by over 10%.

HEY hehehoho, Did you get the meaning of my post, so we take your 100% accuracy --????

Yes, I gave the correct number of police employed in each country rounded to the closest thousand.

60 mill and 300 mill-------- so we still have double the amount of police approx here than USA--per population. agree roughly,

We most certainly do not.

per 100,000 head of population there were 337 Thai police compared to 233 US police in 2008.

now comment on the jist of the post, and stop nit picking re population............... too many BiB here per population---------Thanks.

No.

btw, per head of population the numbers of police are almost identical to the UK, and less than most European countries, in most cases, far less.

[hehehoho]

I believe that the RTP also have to buy their own motorbike, which is offered tax free, as well as buying their own guns.

I believe they were able to buy the Tiger 200 you see them on at around 44,000, which I think were around 65k to the public.

Speaking of guns it was reported that the officer used a HK33 to massacre him colleagues.

[Scott]

Several off-topic posts have been deleted and one unsourced quote.

Please stay on the topic of the thread.

[softgeorge]

I believe that the RTP also have to buy their own motorbike, which is offered tax free, as well as buying their own guns.

I believe they were able to buy the Tiger 200 you see them on at around 44,000, which I think were around 65k to the public.

Speaking of guns it was reported that the officer used a HK33 to massacre him colleagues.

From what I hear the Thai police are paid peanuts and have to buy and maintain everything out of thier own pockets including the fuel for thier bikes to patrol. This sort of thing creates corruption merely as a means of survival and would put a great deal of pressure and stress on individuals.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On the subject of how Thai police are treated in employment, I came to know a younger rank and file officer at one of the resort towns outside of BKK a few years back. His mia noi was best friends with my GF at the time...

I don't doubt their official salary especially for the younger, lower level officers is peanuts... But the young guy I knew was supporting a wife and two young children in their own house, was paying to support his younger mia noi in a provided apartment along with her expenses, and had just bought a new passenger cabin pickup truck.

At one point, I asked my GF at the time how a young guy like that could afford all those things... more than even I myself could afford. And of course, she responded that he got a cut on all the various business enterprises located around the town's police station, and various other stuff...as best as I could squeeze out of my GF, gambling related.

The guy, quite a nice fellow, wasn't struggling financially by any means... And he wasn't working in BKK, Pattaya or Phuket... And he wasn't any kind of higher ranking guy either.

Edited December 28, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Scully]

Tragic, but this doesn't happen in Thailand only ... but let's see what the Thai bashers have to say...

I am not a "Thai basher" but to kill 6 colleagues for whatever reason is a perfect excuse to be bashed.

I wonder if your other two posts are as full of crap as this one? If this happened in any country the BIB responsible should be "bashed".

Edited because I quoted a sane poster.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Scully

[Nisa]

There was a question earlier on in this thread about why the police didn't have to turn in their weapons when off-duty.

If I recall correctly, back in the good old days of Thaksin's 'Kill The Drug Dealers And Nearby Children' policy, an eight year old boy died in crossfire during a shootout among the erstwhile 'police' and 'drug dealers'. When an investigation was demanded, the police said there was no way to tell whose bullet had hit the child because the police had to buy their own guns and there was no registry.

If that was in fact true, then the reason the police don't hand in their guns is obvious; the weapons are their private property.

It is true. Policemen do have to buy their own guns. If they can't afford one, they can take out a loan.

You only need to go into a police station and see the variety of hand guns on hips as evidence of a lack of standard issue.

Actually the are give guns (old) and have the option to buy their own. They do however have to buy their own rounds.

[Nisa]

Another tragic story (with few details) that brings out the many ignorant and hateful posters who have deep insecurity issues and feel a need to stereotype entire groups of people because of the acts of an individual(s) within that group.

If one was to apply the same logic these posters apply to other groups then one would need to assume that westerners are a bunch of ignorant rednecks that can't even comprehend and accept Thailand is not yet at the same level of many countries in the west and therefore still has the problems most countries also had in the west in their past.

And the whole notion that Thais as a whole don't deal with their feelings because they are not allowed to express anger is idiotic. Yes, one is supposed to act like they can control their emotions in public but unlike many posters here they simply don't let things upset them or feel a need to obsesses about things as many folks here seem to do. It is also a myth that expressing anger through means like yelling or fighting helps get rid of it and studies show it actually can make it worse as we witness here on this board.

What an absolute disgrace reading some posts here about these PEOPLE who died that we know nothing about and who likely all left loved ones behind including sons, daughters and wives who now have not only lost a loved one but also their financial support.

Kind of makes you wonder how these troubled posters can at all be taken seriously as they point their fingers at others to say they have problems.

[ginjag]

Another tragic story (with few details) that brings out the many ignorant and hateful posters who have deep insecurity issues and feel a need to stereotype entire groups of people because of the acts of an individual(s) within that group.

If one was to apply the same logic these posters apply to other groups then one would need to assume that westerners are a bunch of ignorant rednecks that can't even comprehend and accept Thailand is not yet at the same level of many countries in the west and therefore still has the problems most countries also had in the west in their past.

And the whole notion that Thais as a whole don't deal with their feelings because they are not allowed to express anger is idiotic. Yes, one is supposed to act like they can control their emotions in public but unlike many posters here they simply don't let things upset them or feel a need to obsesses about things as many folks here seem to do. It is also a myth that expressing anger through means like yelling or fighting helps get rid of it and studies show it actually can make it worse as we witness here on this board.

What an absolute disgrace reading some posts here about these PEOPLE who died that we know nothing about and who likely all left loved ones behind including sons, daughters and wives who now have not only lost a loved one but also their financial support.

Kind of makes you wonder how these troubled posters can at all be taken seriously as they point their fingers at others to say they have problems.

The police should be respected, but I'm afraid they are not here in general by Thai or foreigner. I wonder why ????

In most societies more feeling would be felt by this incident, BUT here not many care, and persons care more if deaths were people that are known to them. majority of posters feel the same as Thai people do about the incident, because of lack of respect lack of feeling. I'll wager a bet that most posters will feel for the kids and families/partners, the ones left are the only sufferers. We all know the police force here is run as a business and not to protect the people so much. royal Thai police should merge into the communities more 1 police house in every village, upholding the law, and therefore being the village bobby-could keep a eye on all around him. Believe me there are too many police at town police stations with little to do, and all in 1 place. please be honest how many police on evening and night shifts do you see around, nearly non as they have gone to ground. Next poster please.

[Nisa]

Another tragic story (with few details) that brings out the many ignorant and hateful posters who have deep insecurity issues and feel a need to stereotype entire groups of people because of the acts of an individual(s) within that group.

If one was to apply the same logic these posters apply to other groups then one would need to assume that westerners are a bunch of ignorant rednecks that can't even comprehend and accept Thailand is not yet at the same level of many countries in the west and therefore still has the problems most countries also had in the west in their past.

And the whole notion that Thais as a whole don't deal with their feelings because they are not allowed to express anger is idiotic. Yes, one is supposed to act like they can control their emotions in public but unlike many posters here they simply don't let things upset them or feel a need to obsesses about things as many folks here seem to do. It is also a myth that expressing anger through means like yelling or fighting helps get rid of it and studies show it actually can make it worse as we witness here on this board.

What an absolute disgrace reading some posts here about these PEOPLE who died that we know nothing about and who likely all left loved ones behind including sons, daughters and wives who now have not only lost a loved one but also their financial support.

Kind of makes you wonder how these troubled posters can at all be taken seriously as they point their fingers at others to say they have problems.

The police should be respected, but I'm afraid they are not here in general by Thai or foreigner. I wonder why ????

In most societies more feeling would be felt by this incident, BUT here not many care, and persons care more if deaths were people that are known to them. majority of posters feel the same as Thai people do about the incident, because of lack of respect lack of feeling. I'll wager a bet that most posters will feel for the kids and families/partners, the ones left are the only sufferers. We all know the police force here is run as a business and not to protect the people so much. royal Thai police should merge into the communities more 1 police house in every village, upholding the law, and therefore being the village bobby-could keep a eye on all around him. Believe me there are too many police at town police stations with little to do, and all in 1 place. please be honest how many police on evening and night shifts do you see around, nearly non as they have gone to ground. Next poster please.

The majority of Thai people (and all people) see this incident as a tragedy. I'm sure there are a number of criminals and those with authority problem issues who feel differently but other than that it takes somebody with personal issues not to see this as a tragedy and instead see it as an opportunity to express idiotic and sick feelings of not caring because they were Thai people and/or Thai police. It boggles the mind that a person able to post on this board lacks such little common sense and feelings towards their fellow man.

There are tragic stories in the news all around the globe on a daily basis and nobody says we should get emotionally distraught over the causalities of others but it is just plain sick and troubling to see people get into an almost celebration state to hear of these deaths of policemen because they so ignorantly love to stereotype entire groups in a country and culture they clearly don't understand and have not been able to be accepted into.

The US and its citizens have lots of problems that can be talked about all day long for years without scratching the surface but anyone with an ounce of common sense and compassion for their fellow man knows the time to vent about this was not in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 unless you felt these people deserved to die.

I can only speak for the US but it is not about respect in the US when it comes to police, it is generally about fear. It would be a rare instance for a cop to find your stolen TV or catch those who broke in your home in the US and the contact the vast majority of people have with police results in fines for hundreds of dollars for traffic or vehicle violations since the vast majority of police are assigned to write tickets to collect funds to not just pay for the police and court systems but also to support the city they operate. However, the majority of law abiding citizens know when a police officer dies that it is a time to keep your mouth shut about pointing out their faults as it is a dangerous job and they do keep the streets safer by locking up violent criminals ... not much different here beyond the police here are operating in a much less developed nation making them radically under payed and trained with inferior equipment and even more limited ability to legally take strong action against those not complying to a simple request (ie. they cannot beat a suspect with their club or tazer them until they comply to a simple request such as "sit down" as they can in the US)

Edited December 28, 2011 by Nisa

[cgphuket]

Behind every smile is an angry Thai.

Seems like many of them wear brown uniforms.

Thinking back to the Royal Thai Police officers who executed the backpacker in Pai, the one who executed two of them in Kanchanaburi, the one who cut off the arms of that karaoke girl, the one who executed another cop and his wife at a roadstop.... etc etc.

They are not allowed in the culture to show anger, so it stays bottled up till they get drunk, and that is the only time they are forgiving for showing negative emotions. That said some bottle up way to much, and have access to lethal weapons, like this BiB and the assault weapon.

Loss of face, pent up anger, weapons and alcohol are very dangerous combined in this culture.

Geez, I wish my girlfriend felt 'not allowed' to show anger ... she can be quite good at it, in fact.