Bangkok Bank Cannot Wire Baht To Hsbc Uk

[ianguygil]

I've been letting this one run while busy but maybe this can help.

Only a small number of banks in the UK offer THB accounts.

Our normal business is for us to be the THB counterparty in funds transfers and we setup our correspondent relationships to ensure that this works well in most countries in the world. I wrote a whole explanation a few years ago about how correspondent accounts work, also known as Due To/Due From or Nostro/Vostro.

So normally for inbound transfers we are receiving funds in other currencies and converting these to THB for final credit either to a BBL account or to an account with another Thai bank (in which case we would be an intermediary bank). So we would receive the foreign funds in our Due From account (in the case of the UK probably GPB) and we would credit to a THB account in Thailand.

For outbound transfers we are normally sending funds by crediting THB to a Due To account for one of our Correspondents overseas and asking them to credit a foreign currency to one of their account holders, or to an account holder at another bank in their country (in which case they are the intermediary bank).

So asking us to transfer THB to a THB account in the UK is not a "standard" transaction. While it can be done, it is not usual. It is up to each bank to decide what accounts they offer in which currencies, but THB is not a major international trading currency. As discussed before, an account is a promise to pay a certain amount in a certain currency on a certain date with certain conditions (interest rate, maturity dates etc.). So they UK banks who offer THB account almost definitely do this by keeping an aggregate account with a Thai bank (Due From from their perspective, Due To from the Thai bank perspective).

We are the largest THB correspondent. As Dave said we have thousands of Correspondent relationships, it is possible that for THB that HSBC is not one of them, while the other 3 UK banks mentioned are. So this would explain why we cannot transfer THB to them, while we could transfer GPB to them (via an intermediary in the UK if they are not a Correspondent).

So, assuming for now that HSBC is not a correspondent (I have not taken the time to check this) the path would be BBL credits THB to the Due To for UK Bank A and sends a SWIFT instruction to UK Bank A asking them to credit xxx GBP to HSBC in the UK, they will do this via the local clearing system in the UK. So UK Bank A is our Intermediary.

Please note that the same cannot be done for THB as you cannot clear this currency via CHAPS or BACS or the newer payment system in the UK.

I hope this makes sense. If you need more of my time on this please PM me and I will do this via email. You can post whatever you want. Thank you.

As for all the other opinions about what we can do in our London branch, some are pretty far off. You can open an account. It is insured by the FSCS insurance scheme (like the FDIC in the UK) and it is available to both business and individual customers. Most people don't do this as it is not so easy to access your money via ATM etc, but it is a service offered.

http://www.bangkokba...%20in%20UK.aspx

Important Information about Compensation Arrangements

Bangkok Bank (London Branch) is covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS). The FSCS can pay compensation to depositors if a bank is unable to meet its financial obligations.

Most depositors - including most individuals and small businesses - are covered by the scheme.

In respect of deposits, an eligible depositor is entitled to claim up to £85,000.00. For joint accounts each account holder is treated as having a claim in respect of their share so, for a joint account held by two eligible depositors, the maximum amount that could be claimed would be £85,000.00 each (making a total of £170,000.00). The £85,000.00 limit relates to the combined amount in all the eligible depositor's accounts with the bank, including their share of any joint account, and not to each separate account.

For further information about the scheme (including the amounts covered and eligibility to claim) please refer to the FSCS website www.FSCS.org.uk

Did your collegue Daveroc not tell us that the UK did not have a retail license and by implication, cannot open retail accounts?

"We do not offer bank accounts at a number of our offshore branches and this is as much to do with the terms of our banking licences in these countries as it is to our commitment of resouces. To gain a full banking licence and then establish the infrastructure required to open and maintain accounts is a major exercise".

Dave is entirely correct. At a number of our branches we do not offer accounts. While at some branches where our banking licences allow us to do so and our business model supports it we do offer accounts. Wholly owned subs like Bangkok Bank China bank or our sub in Malaysia Bangkok Bank Berhad differ still.

So if you have specific questions about specific branches, please let me know, or please check the page for each branch on our website www.bangkokbank.com . Thank you

[chiang mai]

I'm actually more confused now by the answers to the questions about BB UK's capabilities and offerings than I was before the thread was launched, never mind as long as the OP is happy.

[ianguygil]

I'm actually more confused now by the answers to the questions about BB UK's capabilities and offerings than I was before the thread was launched, never mind as long as the OP is happy.

Sorry if it is still confusing.

Just to finally close this out, I have contacted the GM of our London Branch to ask him to confirm if deposit accounts are still available to individuals. Given that this is the end of the holiday in Europe if may be a few days until I get a response. However, I have known him for several years and I am sure he will get back to me quickly

Questions about other branches can be answered on a case by case basis.

Thanks

[AbeSurd]

Sorry if it is still confusing.

Just to finally close this out, I have contacted the GM of our London Branch to ask him to confirm if deposit accounts are still available to individuals. Given that this is the end of the holiday in Europe if may be a few days until I get a response. However, I have known him for several years and I am sure he will get back to me quickly

Questions about other branches can be answered on a case by case basis.

Thanks

Thanks for that Ian.

I've called Bangkok Bank London twice over the last few years. Once about five years ago. Another time, about two years ago. Both times I was told they only did business accounts and did not provide personal accounts.

For me this is borne out by the fact that, to date, I cannot recall a single post on ThaiVisa where someone talks about having a personal account with Bangkok Bank London.

Additionally I followed the link you kindly provided to the Bangkok Bank London webpages. Those pages talk about them providing "full commercial banking services to local and overseas customers". I have to say, to me, that sounds like bankspeak for business accounts and not personal accounts. But hopefully I am wrong!

I'll be interested to know what you hear back from London.

Cheers.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I likewise can't recall ever reading here about anyone having a personal account based at BKK Bank in London... But I'm sure this will get sorted out here... some year or another...

But AbeSurd above is correct, the BKKB London website above does specifically say "commercial" banking services, which usually doesn't mean average Joes (and Janes) like us folks here.

Edited January 5, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ianguygil]

Sorry if it is still confusing.

Just to finally close this out, I have contacted the GM of our London Branch to ask him to confirm if deposit accounts are still available to individuals. Given that this is the end of the holiday in Europe if may be a few days until I get a response. However, I have known him for several years and I am sure he will get back to me quickly

Questions about other branches can be answered on a case by case basis.

Thanks

Thanks for that Ian.

I've called Bangkok Bank London twice over the last few years. Once about five years ago. Another time, about two years ago. Both times I was told they only did business accounts and did not provide personal accounts.

For me this is borne out by the fact that, to date, I cannot recall a single post on ThaiVisa where someone talks about having a personal account with Bangkok Bank London.

Additionally I followed the link you kindly provided to the Bangkok Bank London webpages. Those pages talk about them providing "full commercial banking services to local and overseas customers". I have to say, to me, that sounds like bankspeak for business accounts and not personal accounts. But hopefully I am wrong!

I'll be interested to know what you hear back from London.

Cheers.

AbeSurd

I heard back from the London Branch Manager and I am now in contact with the Ops Manager who will explain their current business model and practices. So please hold on for another business day or so while I straighten this out.

I agree that it should be more clear on our Website as to which branches do provide which products for personal banking. While we strive to provide a complete set of products for Corporates in all makets, in some markets it is not practical for us to provide a full set of personal banking products such as ATM, Credit Card, Mortgage etc.

So our website needs to be clarified and i will work with our International Banking Group to get this content completed and consistent. I would note that at the following URL contains the following which is not definitive:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/About%20Bangkok%20Bank/About%20Us/International%20Branches/Pages/default.aspx

"Personal banking services

Personal banking services are available at most of our international branches so we suggest that you talk to the individual branch when you arrive in the country. The branch manager will be happy to discuss your financial requirements and help in any way they can."

[chiang mai]

Some more input as to what BB UK can and can't do from posters in this thread:

[ianguygil]

As I had indicated before, this varies country by country, and in many cases we do not offer a full set of consumer services which compare to those in Thailand.

Responding to the specific questions in this thread, the answer from Khun Pongsak, our VP and Operations Manager in London, is that consumers (individuals) can open accounts at our London Branch. Quoting from his response:

"We offer 3 types of accounts: Current Account (non-interest bearing), Call Deposit (or Savings Account, which is interest bearing), and Fixed Deposit (fixed interest rate for a fixed period, which could be 2 weeks, 1, 3, 6, 12 months or longer). Currencies of these account can be GBP, USD and Euro.

Please note that London Branch does not offer internet banking and we do not issue debit or credit cards. As a consequence, there are a few drawbacks, e.g., customer's instruction can only by originally-signed written instruction; customers must visit the branch in person to withdraw cash."

So this will close out this thread in terms of my involvement. If you have specific questions about this or other branches please PM either me or Daveroc who will be back here on Monday. Thanks

Ian

[AbeSurd]

"We offer 3 types of accounts: Current Account (non-interest bearing), Call Deposit (or Savings Account, which is interest bearing), and Fixed Deposit (fixed interest rate for a fixed period, which could be 2 weeks, 1, 3, 6, 12 months or longer). Currencies of these account can be GBP, USD and Euro.

Thanks for that Ian.

So I might be able to have a GBP, USD or Euro account at Bangkok Bank London but I can't have a baht account....

Just to come back to the original point of this thread: it almost sounds like Bangkok Bank London, in some sense, don't handle baht. I wonder if that in part explains why they can't act as a clearing bank for baht coming into the UK (if indeed it is the case that they can't act as a clearing bank for baht coming into the UK!)?

[ianguygil]

"We offer 3 types of accounts: Current Account (non-interest bearing), Call Deposit (or Savings Account, which is interest bearing), and Fixed Deposit (fixed interest rate for a fixed period, which could be 2 weeks, 1, 3, 6, 12 months or longer). Currencies of these account can be GBP, USD and Euro.

Thanks for that Ian.

So I might be able to have a GBP, USD or Euro account at Bangkok Bank London but I can't have a baht account....

Just to come back to the original point of this thread: it almost sounds like Bangkok Bank London, in some sense, don't handle baht. I wonder if that in part explains why they can't act as a clearing bank for baht coming into the UK (if indeed it is the case that they can't act as a clearing bank for baht coming into the UK!)?

I think there is no real THB clearing in London. The local clearing networks do not support it. It is not a major trading currency. We can offer you lots of THB accounts in Thailand but not it appears in the UK. There is almost definitely no market for it. But we can help you to access your THB accounts in Thailand.

Please feel free to PM if you want some specific help. I can get our people in Thailand or London to contact you and see how we can meet your needs, or come close to it.

Ian

[Bpuumike]

In my own experience, BBL London consistently say they cannot offer any type of GBP personal account in London.

[chiang mai]

Perhaps a discussion as to what the international clearing process is and who is involved in it might help, Ian, ball in your court.

My understanding is that a foriegn currency can only be cleared via the central bank of the issuing currency, I don't quite see how that could happen in the case of BB London since the link needs to be between BOT and BB UK. BB UK being part of the BOE settlements process seems only applicable to GBP and not THB, forgive me if I don't understand this aspect clearly but I'm not convinced anyone has explained it adequatly thus far. Actually, if Naam would lend his prescence for a moment perhaps that might help shed light.

Edited January 7, 2012 by chiang mai

[ianguygil]

In my own experience, BBL London consistently say they cannot offer any type of GBP personal account in London.

If you want to do this, please PM me and I will put you in direct contact with Khun Pongsak, VP in our London Branch

[ianguygil]

Perhaps a discussion as to what the international clearing process is and who is involved in it might help, Ian, ball in your court.

My understanding is that a foriegn currency can only be cleared via the central bank of the issuing currency, I don't quite see how that could happen in the case of BB London since the link needs to be between BOT and BB UK. BB UK being part of the BOE settlements process seems only applicable to GBP and not THB, forgive me if I don't understand this aspect clearly but I'm not convinced anyone has explained it adequatly thus far. Actually, if Naam would lend his prescence for a moment perhaps that might help shed light.

I think I explained all this a couple of years ago. Please let me check and try to find that post or I will put some time into that next week.

Most important thing to remember is that an account is a promise to pay. A liability. Managment of the associated liquidity is a different issue. Also, clearing (actually moving value between banks) can either be achieved using Due To/Due From accounts (which requires a correspondent relationship) or by moving funds via a clearing system, most (not all) of which are run by central banks. I know of no interbank clearing systems which allow for clearing of THB other than those in Thailand.

More next week if I need to (i.e if I cannot find the old post)

[Bpuumike]

Let's take the BB London issue first: if a branch of BB in Thailand wants to transit funds to a foreign country it needs to have a clearing bank in that country, since BB already has a branch in London it can act as its own clearer before transferring the (theoretical) funds to HSBC London.

Second point on BB London: whist it may wish to sell itself as purely a business branch of BB, it does in fact transact quite extensively on the retail front also. UK holders of BB Thailand accounts can transfer GBP between Thailand and the UK using BB London and that's a well trodden path. So yes, BB London will deal with us little guys if pressed.

So BB Thailand (where ever) thinks it's OK to transfer THB out of the country and they even filled out the forms for you to do this? I'm not a gambling man but I'd be prepared to make an exception here and wager that BB doesn't know what it's talking about on this point and that if you push them they will realize they can't actually transfer THB out - perhaps ask them about the detailed BOT regulations on this point and see what happens!

I agree with your point about spreading your cash and putting as much as you can into safe havens, interestingly I'm doing the same thing at present but in reverse! My UK HSBC account is full and I've taken excess GBP and put it into THB (and others), I've spread the THB around three Thai banks at 2.5 and 2.7% instant access and made sure that no one bank has more than THB 650k of my money - that keeps me under the THAI compensation scheme levels and also ensures that no tax is deducted at source (max interest before tax deducted is THB 20k).

Finally, HSBC HK: whilst I realize that the financial world is a currently little more than a pyramid of dominoes that could collapse at any time, I reckon HSBC HK will be the last piece to fall and in that respect it's very very safe. Yes there are financial security guarantees offered by the government and whilst I don't recall immediately what they are, they're certainly higher than the UK's.

All very true and all good reason to have some gold in your mix, especially when it has such a low premium in Thailand.

[udonguy]

In my own experience, BBL London consistently say they cannot offer any type of GBP personal account in London.

If you want to do this, please PM me and I will put you in direct contact with Khun Pongsak, VP in our London Branch

hi - i dont see any facility to PM you? I need to transfer out and back about 5m baht - I am a multi-account holder at BB

[udonguy]

I need to transfer out and back about 5m so i can get the Thor Tor to buy property - easiest solutions??? I am a BB customer here but it seems difficult to open and account in their London branch to actively transfer in and out

[flying]

hi - i dont see any facility to PM you?

Just hover your mouse cursor over his name & you will see a send message option

[Daveroc]

Udonguy, i have sent you a PM with my details if you want some further assistance.

dave

[udonguy]

hi - i dont see any facility to PM you?

Just hover your mouse cursor over his name & you will see a send message option

wow thanks - that's not obvious I must say! but it works so thanks

[udonguy]

Udonguy, i have sent you a PM with my details if you want some further assistance.

dave

much appreciated - got nowhere with BBL in Chiang Mai - who informed me

'I cannot open a foreign currency account with... a foreign currency'

I asked them them the question as they told me I cannot exchange Thai baht for GBP - so i said I'd go to the foreign exchange counter at the front of the bank and change the money then come back to her desk and put in a foreign currency account - MAI DAI she says...

...silly farang thinking they can put foreign currency in a foreign currency account! and that was that

[chiang mai]

Perhaps a discussion as to what the international clearing process is and who is involved in it might help, Ian, ball in your court.

My understanding is that a foriegn currency can only be cleared via the central bank of the issuing currency, I don't quite see how that could happen in the case of BB London since the link needs to be between BOT and BB UK. BB UK being part of the BOE settlements process seems only applicable to GBP and not THB, forgive me if I don't understand this aspect clearly but I'm not convinced anyone has explained it adequatly thus far. Actually, if Naam would lend his prescence for a moment perhaps that might help shed light.

I think I explained all this a couple of years ago. Please let me check and try to find that post or I will put some time into that next week.

Most important thing to remember is that an account is a promise to pay. A liability. Managment of the associated liquidity is a different issue. Also, clearing (actually moving value between banks) can either be achieved using Due To/Due From accounts (which requires a correspondent relationship) or by moving funds via a clearing system, most (not all) of which are run by central banks. I know of no interbank clearing systems which allow for clearing of THB other than those in Thailand.

More next week if I need to (i.e if I cannot find the old post)

Painful I know, but, bump!