Moved Back To Uk Recently.....Arrrgghhh!

[exeter]

Makescents, single mums who I did not say were asylum seekers get £700 a month per child, so why bother working. You are the first person official or other wise to dispute that asylum seekers get when they arrive, from somewhere in the UK Government £250 a week + £100 a week each, plus free housing and who knows what else. They are the facts as I know them. The point I am trying to make is this that as an Englishman who was born and brought up in the country, paid taxes all my life, I am denied a cost of living increase on my state pension whilst some residents of the UK get a much better deal than me, most of whom were not born here and have paid little or not taxes into the exchequer, The system is not biased to the indegenous population, like Thailand is, it positivley discrimates them in favour of people who have not taken refuge in the first country they could have, they have worked their way through to the UK because of the benefits they can get, if they were truly what they claim, mainland europe would have more, they work their way through europe, sometimes I suspect with help of some countries who dont want them or the costs involved and the Uk is where they stop. The Uk also has a huge repatriation cost as well, but they can always come back for another go, its a right mess and no wonder people come here where life is more straightforward.

It really annoys me what has happened back in the UK a once great country is now a Global health and support agency for anyone who can con their way in, time to put up the full sign.

[makescents]

Makescents, single mums who I did not say were asylum seekers get £700 a month per child, so why bother working. You are the first person official or other wise to dispute that asylum seekers get when they arrive, from somewhere in the UK Government £250 a week + £100 a week each, plus free housing and who knows what else. They are the facts as I know them. The point I am trying to make is this that as an Englishman who was born and brought up in the country, paid taxes all my life, I am denied a cost of living increase on my state pension whilst some residents of the UK get a much better deal than me, most of whom were not born here and have paid little or not taxes into the exchequer, The system is not biased to the indegenous population, like Thailand is, it positivley discrimates them in favour of people who have not taken refuge in the first country they could have, they have worked their way through to the UK because of the benefits they can get, if they were truly what they claim, mainland europe would have more, they work their way through europe, sometimes I suspect with help of some countries who dont want them or the costs involved and the Uk is where they stop. The Uk also has a huge repatriation cost as well, but they can always come back for another go, its a right mess and no wonder people come here where life is more straightforward.

It really annoys me what has happened back in the UK a once great country is now a Global health and support agency for anyone who can con their way in, time to put up the full sign.

Please cite your source for both claims you make.

I actually think that you should get increases to your state pension when you reside in Thailand. It seems strange that if you lived in the Philippines you would be entitled to these increases when in Thailand you are not.

[Parker1973]

Interesting post Wossnext....im in the process of considering the opposite move...

I work in London and live in Surrey,spend 4-6 months a year in Thailand as my work luckily is kinda seasonal and well paid....tho running a house in Uk and a place in Thailand is proving to be expensive and money down the drain,really need to make the move completely and rent my Uk place out.....

Basically the things u highlighted about the UK i am also sick of,and while i realise Bkk isnt perfect,as nowhere is,i do know id have a much better quality of life as i wouldnt be working in Thailand,and could enjoy all living in Bkk has to offer and return back to London as and when needed for work...

The fly in the ointment is that id miss my daughter who im very close to.....tho she is now an adult....

Anyway,nothing really to add,just thought id say i understand why and what frustrates u about living in the Uk and hope u make it back to Bkk,the Uk is going down the tubes quick and only gonna get tougher before it gets better.....

Good luck...

Thanks for your sensible response, I agree that we (UK) are in a desperate situation, and that it is rapidly worsening, I had a stressful and difficult job in Thailand but would go back to my life there in a heartbeat if it were possible

I was looking up at the grey,rain soaked sky today,freezing cold, and suddenly missed Thailand like crazy,theres a lot said for being warm and having blue sky on an almost daily basis....makes u feel alive....

Good luck Steve....

[Parker1973]

I'm in the UK for Christmas and New Year. My Wife and I are having a wonderful time in the countryside with family and friends.

I think the key element to our visits to the UK and life in Thailand is that in England I'm a country boy and avoid the city, in Thailand I'm a city boy.

I believe the best of England is present in its friendly countryside where people still hold doors open for each other, where strangers say hello and other drivers flash their car lights for you to go first.

I also believe the best of Thailand is in the cosmopolitan nature of its capital where as much of a normal existence as possible can be maintained.

England is a lovely place to visit. While Thailand remains a great place to live.

'England is a lovely place to visit. While Thailand remains a great place to live'....

So very true.....

[Wossnext]

makescents, may I pick some holes in your arguements in you recent Post?

"Immigrants pay more in taxes than the cost they burden the state with".

This line was popular during the last Labour Government and was if memory served up by the IPPR - a left leaning, think tank. Depending on the sources you wish to scrutinise, this fact does not hold water and at best the pro's and con's regarding the tax situation of immigrants runs slightly or deeper into the negative, But here we must not forget that many immigrants may be high-flyers from (Former Western colonies) working in the likes of the City or running Companies, etc. This distorts the taxation situation greatly.

There's no good economic argument against immigration; it always boils down to xenophobia and racism.

Hmm, with a country with 8.2% of the working population unemployed you do wonder? (Figure from a recent copy of The Economist). Working within the Engineering sector I've seen multiple instances of job losses or rates of pay being reduced on the threat of the introduction of cheaper, immigrant workers into the workplace. If an indigenous worker consequently loses his/her job or has to claim tax credits then it is the state which then picks up the benefit tab. Unfortunately, such practises do not improve service/product quality. But this "job loss" cost is again not factored against that of the introduction of the immigrant into the country. Read, "Nickel or Dimed" by an American author or Polly Toynbee's UK version on the ways to fleece an immigrant worker, and ergo the state, out of revenues.

This is neither xenophobia or racism* but cold, hard facts.

(*Ah, Those 2 words the readership of The Guardian seem to have indelibly inked onto their brains).

Most immigrants don't just go to the UK and sign on. They can't.

I agree but there are plenty of charities and support groups - sometimes supported by council grants, etc. - by which they can get by. And let us not forget translation services at a cost in the region of £50-75 per hour. Again such costs are not weighted against the immigrant's cost.

I used to work for the DWP and the hoops we make asylum seekers jump through is dam_n right inhuman.

Unless an Asylum seeker reached the UK directly from his/her country of persecution (highly unlikely given the nature for fleeing) then they should seek sanctuary in the first safe country they reach. (This is within the Dublin Accord after all). If that being so, why do so many trek through mainland Europe, before trying to get into the UK, It is certainly not the weather so could it be the shambolic human rights sector and later the benefit system?

--------------

However, I am fortunate and can say my area of the UK has few immigrants when compared to some and indeed this was cited as the reason why the Summer riots did not spread into my area or its surrounds. The thing which does amuse me however, are those who complain about immigrants whilst having brought a foreign wife and maybe child/children into the country if by some magic these were not immigrants themselves. This includes at least 2 close friends.

One thing is for certain, immigration is a political hot-potato for all parties. For expats it may be wothwhile keeping an eye on their "home" newspress as there maybe items which crop up that may affect their views on where they are living and the duration. (Eg. This is currently a rumour but I read it in the broadsheets and may it be announced in April 2012 : if out of the UK for a period of 6-months or more, then treatment on the NHS will be denied until a set period of "home stay" has been served within the UK - this is one to keep a good eye on).

As for the OP I would shy from putting too much emphasis on living in Thailand and Bangkok on a CV/Resume. Play on the career strengths rather than too much emphasis on location. Unfortunately, there is a stigma attached.

Good post Moobie, very interesting news about the possible upcoming change to treatment on NHS for expats. Advice on stigma/location appreciated but is fine on CV as it was working at an Embassy of the Commonwealth.

[cardholder]

not to mention the appalling cost of living here (35 pounds or over 1,500 Thai baht for Thai food which my GF said was inedible)

I hate to break the news, but it's over 1700 baht...

Plus the 20 Baht tip.

More like 250 Bt tip unless service is already included

No one gets more than 20 Baht from me in Thailand - let's be generous and call it 50p in the UK - that is enough.

[exeter]

To makescents, have to concede the figures I had quoted on asylum seekers may not be froma totally reliable source, the conception from most UK residents though is that the asylum seekers get a better deal than the they do and therefore it is not surprising that there is hostility towards them. The Daily Mail is another former British Icon that has fallen from grace and now is more like that other institution the Sun, BIG headlines and an article that says nothing, a sad decline, a rapid one too.

[nong38]

makescents, may I pick some holes in your arguements in you recent Post?

"Immigrants pay more in taxes than the cost they burden the state with".

This line was popular during the last Labour Government and was if memory served up by the IPPR - a left leaning, think tank. Depending on the sources you wish to scrutinise, this fact does not hold water and at best the pro's and con's regarding the tax situation of immigrants runs slightly or deeper into the negative, But here we must not forget that many immigrants may be high-flyers from (Former Western colonies) working in the likes of the City or running Companies, etc. This distorts the taxation situation greatly.

There's no good economic argument against immigration; it always boils down to xenophobia and racism.

Hmm, with a country with 8.2% of the working population unemployed you do wonder? (Figure from a recent copy of The Economist). Working within the Engineering sector I've seen multiple instances of job losses or rates of pay being reduced on the threat of the introduction of cheaper, immigrant workers into the workplace. If an indigenous worker consequently loses his/her job or has to claim tax credits then it is the state which then picks up the benefit tab. Unfortunately, such practises do not improve service/product quality. But this "job loss" cost is again not factored against that of the introduction of the immigrant into the country. Read, "Nickel or Dimed" by an American author or Polly Toynbee's UK version on the ways to fleece an immigrant worker, and ergo the state, out of revenues.

This is neither xenophobia or racism* but cold, hard facts.

(*Ah, Those 2 words the readership of The Guardian seem to have indelibly inked onto their brains).

Most immigrants don't just go to the UK and sign on. They can't.

I agree but there are plenty of charities and support groups - sometimes supported by council grants, etc. - by which they can get by. And let us not forget translation services at a cost in the region of £50-75 per hour. Again such costs are not weighted against the immigrant's cost.

I used to work for the DWP and the hoops we make asylum seekers jump through is dam_n right inhuman.

Unless an Asylum seeker reached the UK directly from his/her country of persecution (highly unlikely given the nature for fleeing) then they should seek sanctuary in the first safe country they reach. (This is within the Dublin Accord after all). If that being so, why do so many trek through mainland Europe, before trying to get into the UK, It is certainly not the weather so could it be the shambolic human rights sector and later the benefit system?

--------------

However, I am fortunate and can say my area of the UK has few immigrants when compared to some and indeed this was cited as the reason why the Summer riots did not spread into my area or its surrounds. The thing which does amuse me however, are those who complain about immigrants whilst having brought a foreign wife and maybe child/children into the country if by some magic these were not immigrants themselves. This includes at least 2 close friends.

One thing is for certain, immigration is a political hot-potato for all parties. For expats it may be wothwhile keeping an eye on their "home" newspress as there maybe items which crop up that may affect their views on where they are living and the duration. (Eg. This is currently a rumour but I read it in the broadsheets and may it be announced in April 2012 : if out of the UK for a period of 6-months or more, then treatment on the NHS will be denied until a set period of "home stay" has been served within the UK - this is one to keep a good eye on).

As for the OP I would shy from putting too much emphasis on living in Thailand and Bangkok on a CV/Resume. Play on the career strengths rather than too much emphasis on location. Unfortunately, there is a stigma attached.

Moobie I think you may not be totally correct on this one about NHS treatment and duration out of the UK.

In 2009 when I was thinking about coming out to Thailand for a good proportion of the year I went to NHS HQ in Whitehall and asked what the position was if I decided to spend a fair amount of time in Thailand. I was told that if I spent 90+ days out of the UK in a calender year I would lose all NHS benefits. At this I let her have both barrels! A lifetime of taxes, born and bred and all gone in 90 days? Yes but the good news is that when you get to 65 you get most of them back. I have not had problems with going to see the local GP and getting free presciptions when I am back, nor eye tests, but you do wonder if you had to go down to the hospital dont you that there might be an envelope in the post. The goalposts are always changing and the economy has gone down since 2009 so who knows, as Moobie says keep an eye on the broadsheets for any info. I must say the new ambassador did nothing to alay these fears.

Edited December 31, 2011 by nong38

[mr.buffalo]

Blimey, 90 days ! I am on holiday here in Thailand for 3 months. Due to go back 6 th March. How will Big Brother know how long one has been away for? I was working in America for just over 3 months at the beginning of the year and went to the doctor's when I got back to the UK and nothing flagged up thankfully.

[cardholder]

Blimey, 90 days ! I am on holiday here in Thailand for 3 months. Due to go back 6 th March. How will Big Brother know how long one has been away for? I was working in America for just over 3 months at the beginning of the year and went to the doctor's when I got back to the UK and nothing flagged up thankfully.

Your passport is a bit of a clue.

Noticed how they scan it when you go in or out of the country. I wonder where that info is stored ?

[endure]

To makescents, have to concede the figures I had quoted on asylum seekers may not be froma totally reliable source, the conception from most UK residents though is that the asylum seekers get a better deal than the they do and therefore it is not surprising that there is hostility towards them. The Daily Mail is another former British Icon that has fallen from grace and now is more like that other institution the Sun, BIG headlines and an article that says nothing, a sad decline, a rapid one too.

The Daily Mail is a newspaper whose proprietor, Lord Rothermere, was a friend and supporter of both Hitler and Mussolini. In 1934 Rothermere wrote an article called 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts' praising Oswald Moseley. Truly it has declined since then.

[mr.buffalo]

Never seen a passport scanner at the surgery.

[chiang mai]

Never seen a passport scanner at the surgery.

It's there, tight next to the proctology equipment.

[Mur]

After living in London and Bangkok from 1998 to 2008 and then returning to my home country NZ my feelings are that no country is improving as there seems to be more greed, PC bullsh&t and less common sense no matter where you go. Just the way it is now innit !

[ludditeman]

Blimey, 90 days ! I am on holiday here in Thailand for 3 months. Due to go back 6 th March. How will Big Brother know how long one has been away for? I was working in America for just over 3 months at the beginning of the year and went to the doctor's when I got back to the UK and nothing flagged up thankfully.

Your passport is a bit of a clue.

Noticed how they scan it when you go in or out of the country. I wonder where that info is stored ?

Immigration computer not linked to NHS records, and doesn't record destination.

(and they don't scan passports if you visit France or Ireland, well they weren't last year)

They also don't know if you are living in Thailand or The Philippines.

If you are really concerned about pension increases, fly to The Philippines for a few weeks before jumping to Thailand.

A relative of mine worked as an investigator in a NHS hospital questioning people about their rights to use the NHS.

She only ever questioned people with foreign accents. The front desk would flag 'customers' with funny accents for further investigation.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ludditeman

[nong38]

When you claim your pension there is a question about in the last 12 months have you spent more than 90 days out of the UK, if the answer is yes then I expect a follow up on will be where? Is it on the reciprical list or not. At this point it would depend if someone can pull up your passport information to see where you have been. If you had started claiming before you moved here then the Phillipines diversion looks an interesting diversion, they are on the list and would then have a good chance of keeping the annual increase, is it worth £X for that diversion and another flight?

[ludditeman]

When you claim your pension there is a question about in the last 12 months have you spent more than 90 days out of the UK, if the answer is yes then I expect a follow up on will be where? Is it on the reciprical list or not. At this point it would depend if someone can pull up your passport information to see where you have been. If you had started claiming before you moved here then the Phillipines diversion looks an interesting diversion, they are on the list and would then have a good chance of keeping the annual increase, is it worth £X for that diversion and another flight?

Please think.

The scanner at the airport only records you have left the country or entered the country.

Not where you are going or where you came from or any subsequent journeys.

The scanner at ferry terminals isn't used for EU citizens, so even the record of when you were in the UK is not complete.

You would need every immigration department in the world to share information of every entry/exit to record where you were living and when.

They don't share information, and I suspect they never will.

If I leave the UK, they don't know if I am a sex tourist in the Philippines or sampling fine wines at my house in France.

(Unless I tell them). Message to everyone, learn to lie to nosy authorities.

PS

Flights Thailand/Philippines are very cheap, many of my retired friends hop around several times each year.

They aren't all that wealthy.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ludditeman

[cardholder]

Never seen a passport scanner at the surgery.

It's there, tight next to the proctology equipment.

[exeter]

The scanner at the airport will alert authorities that you left on one date and re entered on another which might be 90+ days, so the question is is the scanner sharing this information with DWP? Big brother suggests to be that it probably is, in which case the Phillipines would be a good card to play

[theoldgit]

The scanner at the airport will alert authorities that you left on one date and re entered on another which might be 90+ days, so the question is is the scanner sharing this information with DWP? Big brother suggests to be that it probably is, in which case the Phillipines would be a good card to play

I'm not sure what "scanner" you are referring to, but when your passport is swiped on entry to the UK it does no more than bring up your details on the IO's screen, this will show them that you are who you say you are, it's a check on your entitlement to enter the UK not a check of your travels. The most it could do, in the unlikely event of joined up government, that you entered the UK on a certain date.

As embarkation controls were abandoned some years ago this information would be worthless as there is no record of you leaving the UK.

I suppose if e-borders ever becomes fully operational then UK Nationals could be checked in and out of the UK then possibly this information could be shared with other agencies, I suspect we are a fair way off that, but it could happen.

[MAJIC]

English farangs in Thailand moaning about foreigners in England not speaking English, when they don't speak Thai, never fails to amuse me.

The Big difference is,the UK Immigrants who do not speak English can still claim from our Social Security system,which is why many of them,came to the UK in the First place.All Farangs in Thailand,whether they speak Thai or not,still have to pay for their own living,without any help from Thailand,and financially owe Thailand nothing,and in fact they are contributing to the Thai Economy.

So nothing to be amused about.

[phuturatica]

The UK has no prospects for anyone in it's current state. I left the UK in November to move to Thailand and I don't regret it at all.

[chiang mai]

What if a person isn't looking for prospects and simply wants to just live there?

[makescents]

To makescents, have to concede the figures I had quoted on asylum seekers may not be froma totally reliable source, the conception from most UK residents though is that the asylum seekers get a better deal than the they do and therefore it is not surprising that there is hostility towards them. The Daily Mail is another former British Icon that has fallen from grace and now is more like that other institution the Sun, BIG headlines and an article that says nothing, a sad decline, a rapid one too.

That's just it. It's conception not fact or reality.

It is unnerving that people think that immigrants come off the boat at Dover and are handed car keys to a brand new beamer and a mansion in Kensington. Whist these fringe reports you read about in that tabloid rag are people committing fraud in the system and are not the stories of standard claimants.

I'd urge you to go and look at a good source or even contact the DWP yourself and ask how much you would receive as an asyulm seeker. You will find the figure much lower than you think.

[makescents]

English farangs in Thailand moaning about foreigners in England not speaking English, when they don't speak Thai, never fails to amuse me.

The Big difference is,the UK Immigrants who do not speak English can still claim from our Social Security system,which is why many of them,came to the UK in the First place.All Farangs in Thailand,whether they speak Thai or not,still have to pay for their own living,without any help from Thailand,and financially owe Thailand nothing,and in fact they are contributing to the Thai Economy.

So nothing to be amused about.

So if they work then there's no problem?

[meatboy]

my mrs.had a job in the uk.that thai's would die for[35k bht]a week 2006 she couldnt wait to get back to los.2009 thats it thailand here we come.only downfall she owns a house in the uk.she rented it out fking nightmare,tennant has more rights than the owner,often behind with the rent,agent gets 10% does f-all.got them out after 2years,need to spend a few thou.£ to put it back to what it was and on the market for 20% less.open to offers.i used to think maggie fked up the uk.but tony blair and gorden brown stuck it up us all or y can say we got shafted.

[phuturatica]

What if a person isn't looking for prospects and simply wants to just live there?

Simply just living there isn't that simple in the UK. People with university degrees have difficulty getting a job in their profession and most of them end up with low level, dead end jobs. The rate of unemployment is at it's highest, kids are running riot and intimidating the nation and our government is going rapidly downhill.

The cost of living to how much you earn if you actually have a job is not all a bunch of roses.

[chiang mai]

What if a person isn't looking for prospects and simply wants to just live there?

Simply just living there isn't that simple in the UK. People with university degrees have difficulty getting a job in their profession and most of them end up with low level, dead end jobs. The rate of unemployment is at it's highest, kids are running riot and intimidating the nation and our government is going rapidly downhill.

The cost of living to how much you earn if you actually have a job is not all a bunch of roses.

I'm retired and don't need to work, actually have no intention of working. I can afford my own home (average prices)) and have enough pension income to live a "normal" retirement, not excessively outlandish but not like a pauper either, I figure forty percent of my income would go on living expenses and the remainder is discretionary, without digging into my capital that I wish to leave to someone. On that basis is still not the place to be?

[cardholder]

What if a person isn't looking for prospects and simply wants to just live there?

Simply just living there isn't that simple in the UK. People with university degrees have difficulty getting a job in their profession and most of them end up with low level, dead end jobs. The rate of unemployment is at it's highest, kids are running riot and intimidating the nation and our government is going rapidly downhill.

The cost of living to how much you earn if you actually have a job is not all a bunch of roses.

I think the likes of chiang mai, who have made provision for their retirement, are OK.

The immigrant car is overplayed at times and e.g. the Poles did come in (rather like Indians 5 decades earlier) and take jobs that the locals showed little interest in - and they worked hard. Ironic that many East Europeans are heading back, disillusioned with the what the UK has become.

Unemployment is actually at a 17 year high (it was higher in the recession of the early 90's which actually saw property prices dip 30%, 3m+ unemployed and interest rates at 15% (imagine what that sort of rate would do the economy now!).

I think the issue is that the young unemployment figure has topped 1m. That says a lot about the prospects for the country, culture and economy - no doubt crime as well.

The UK has become an expensive place to live - especially for those of us who now live in Thailand. Diesel 141p a litre (what a con switching to diesel engines was as well), £3 a beer, Council tax £140 a month, £5 to park your car for a few hours, a 10% rise in building materials etc, etc.

The UK has also become an unhappy place (I sure I have not helped that in my 3 week visit!). You look around and few people have a smile, no one has a good word for anything and there is little optimism for the future.

I am the wrong person to judge, my life is now based in Thailand. Whilst the UK has many beautiful places it has an 'ugly feel' to it at the moment and I have no desire to return.

[steve187]

my mrs.had a job in the uk.that thai's would die for[35k bht]a week 2006 she couldnt wait to get back to los.2009 thats it thailand here we come.only downfall she owns a house in the uk.she rented it out fking nightmare,tennant has more rights than the owner,often behind with the rent,agent gets 10% does f-all.got them out after 2years,need to spend a few thou.£ to put it back to what it was and on the market for 20% less.open to offers.i used to think maggie fked up the uk.but tony blair and gorden brown stuck it up us all or y can say we got shafted.

where is the house?