Speaking English Campaign Is Just A Passing Fad: Thai Opinion

[BigJohnnyBKK]

> Interesting.I accept these good points but remain a bit puzzled why China and Vietnam, with no British colonial tradition to build on, remain so more advanced than Thailand in English language skills.

IMO because their education systems may tout their own culture and nation as superior to others but don't ignore the importance of trade with the rest of the world - Thais seem to delude themselves that they can stand on their own in the world.

Also my impression is that the native population of both Chinese and Vietnam are generally both more intelligent and ambitious, and the parents are certainly very effective at pushing their children hard at their schoolwork.

Many native Thai families (not counting the 2nd-3rd generation Chinese immigrants here) are completely lackadaisical about not only education but about the whole concept of work in general, apparently seen as a necessary evil when there isn't enough to eat today but otherwise we'll worry about that tomorrow.

My maid is only sending one daughter to school, the 11 year old, and probably for only another year or two, while the older one (13 I think) supposedly is working, maybe earns a 100 baht helping out street vendor friends of the family once in a while, but I reckon sits at home watching TV 80% of the time. When I offered to help with school-related expenses so they both could go, mum's reply was to just give her the cash instead. I know they'll just spend it on snacks, so said no.

I realize one can't generalize about everyone from just mostly poor upcountry examples, but then most of the population is upcountry poor. It's very rare to meet any that have both intelligence - or even just common sense - and ambition - or any recognition that life is hard and the future uncertain.

If ASEAN integration becomes reality, Thailand will lose out big time, perfectly phrased point of view, seeing lowering trade barriers as "community building" 8-)

[Buchholz]

This is part of the Yingluck government's effort to promote the world's lingua franca in this our tongue-tied country.

It would further the effort if Yingluck and others in her cabinet, like her cousin the Foreign Minister Surapong, and who supposedly hold degrees from western countries, could role model English speech instead of fumbling and stumbling with it and ask for translators.

Thank you Buchholz for reminding us that the real purpose of this article is not about discussing the value of teaching the English language but government bashing.

Lead by example is a time-tested method of improvement.

If she and her Cabinet wish to spearhead some program, perhaps they could start with themselves.

.

[Moruya]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

why would u care what the thai teachers say? his english is most likely better than there's.

I would hope that their English is better than yours! 6 errors in that short line!

[apetley]

Today wifey and I went to her old vocational college to buy a couple of the cakes they make specially for new year.

The english class students were very eager that she buy from them.

When she asked why they told her that their teacher told them they would get extra marks in the annual assessment if they sold at least 10 cakes each.

Amazing Thailand.

Edited December 30, 2011 by apetley

[DavidMoi]

Forty five years ago, a Japanese High School student told me that he wanted to learn English because all the good text books (and nowadays most computer programmes) are written in English.... makes a lot of sense

Happy New Year to all.

[cm das]

Forget the teachers for the time being. The level of English proficiency in Thailand could be raised across the country with one simple step: stop dubbing English language movies and TV shows into Thai. Leave the original soundtrack and provide Thai subtitles.

[chainarong]

You can crow till the cows come home on this one, all their education standards are well below normal especially in state run schools,unless they increase wages and curriculum standards they will always lag behind, the governments of the day do nothing to improve the quality, unfortunately I think there's some top end of town hidden agenda , like keep the peasants in the gutter syndrome

[falangjim]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

How you manage to listen to what a Thai teacher says about your falang son's English speaking skills while not laughing in his face is a true test to your sense of humor.

[parmo1]

Yes i agree

Edited December 30, 2011 by parmo1

[chooka]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

How you manage to listen to what a Thai teacher says about your falang son's English speaking skills while not laughing in his face is a true test to your sense of humor.

Would be a brave person to laugh in the face of a Thai. Loss of face to the highest degree, giggle and run would be the thing to do.

Edited December 30, 2011 by chooka

[chooka]

Most countries plan and know where they want thier society to be in 30 - 50 yrs. I wonder what Thailands plans are for it's citizens.

[Somtamnication]

Ah, the Thai English teachers. One of my private students showed me his homework. I had helped him to understand the questions and how to answer them.

The teacher made a few corrections. All wrong, but one that stuck out and forever will be, is "She had an accident and went to the hospital"..... corrected to "She accidented and went to hospital".

There is nothing wrong with that corrected sentence. "...and went to the hospital" is perfectly correct. There are regional, geographical...blah blah blah differences in English...and also we all speak with accents.

Err, the CORRECTED sentence was the second quote, not the first.

[Prairieboy]

Why so much effort to teach English to a population that will never need it.

Maybe tops 5% of the population will need it and of those 5% only half will need to be proficient in it.

I live here in Chiang Mai and constantly find myself making purchases from Thai's who can not speak English.

I believe that the pressure to learn English stems from people who do not want to learn the Language of Thailand and are trying to get it so the clerk who sells them a clearly marked price item can explain to them what 200 baht means.

Thai's need to learn the basics Science Mathematics how to reason. English will always be avalable but a waste of money 95% of the time. Why not teach them Chinese?

Does that 5% include the ladies at Soi Cowboy and similar venues?

[apetley]

Forget the teachers for the time being. The level of English proficiency in Thailand could be raised across the country with one simple step: stop dubbing English language movies and TV shows into Thai. Leave the original soundtrack and provide Thai subtitles.

Would you believe this is exactly what the lady who cuts my hair has done?

She lives in a small village and has taught herself English to a reasonable level mostly by watching western movies.

Most amazing is she has done this when her favourite star is Bruce Willis!:-)

[anterian]

English gives you access to the world of science, economics, global politics and thought. It enables you to read the English language version of many foreign papers, Pravda, Al-Jazeera, most European papers, and many Asian papers. You can become, if you choose so, an informed person. Thailand does not like its citizens to be informed people.

[osiboy]

Why so much effort to teach English to a population that will never need it.

Maybe tops 5% of the population will need it and of those 5% only half will need to be proficient in it.

I live here in Chiang Mai and constantly find myself making purchases from Thai's who can not speak English.

I believe that the pressure to learn English stems from people who do not want to learn the Language of Thailand and are trying to get it so the clerk who sells them a clearly marked price item can explain to them what 200 baht means.

Thai's need to learn the basics Science Mathematics how to reason. English will always be avalable but a waste of money 95% of the time. Why not teach them Chinese?

rubbish !!,..... there are so many other reasons to learn english , 1/;have you ever watched the news on tv in thailand ??,...... how much international news do you see ?? 2/; history written in english will open up the thais insular mindset 3/; with asian nations growing so fast and international travel increasing so fast, if a thai needs emergency help while in say europe/america/egypt,...anywhere,...what language do you suggest they communicate in ? , 4/;road signs in so many countries have 2 languages, ive never seen them in thai in europe ,...have you ??,......... i could go on , but im bored now,.......... the kids in thailand today are thailands future, ENGLISH IS THE GLOBAL LANGUAGE.......end of !

and think of all the good movies they cant understand !! , have to look at those "classy" korean and chinese dubbed masterpieces !

Edited December 30, 2011 by osiboy

[Alvarez]

I think that everyone seems to be missing the point! Speaking English for 4 hours a week and that on a Monday morning is a bit like urinating into a wetsuit, it gives a nice warm feeling but nobody notices! The Director will not give his Monday speech in English nor will the teachers give their first four lessons in English. The English grammar lessons, all through the week will be given in Thai and the farang English teacher will put on an entertaining 50 minutes hoping that some English will sink in!

While French grammar and sentence structure is very similar to Thai hardly any students take it as an elective...could it be that there is no incentive to learn any foreign languages as there is nowhere in the media or in everyday life where it's useful?

Until Thai's start to travel extensively throughout the world or the region they will never have a reason to have a second (European) language.

Are you saying that french grammar is similar to Thai grammar????? are you kidding me??? If we compare Thai to French Thai doesn't have grammar, and belive i don't speak french but i can understand it very well , since my mother language is very close to French and i speak good Thai too. I know many Thais who speak one or two languages besides Thai, and for the most of them is very difficult to learn western languages , mainly because of the grammar and the cultural differences, i don't believe that for the most of Thais learning English is a priority,

[NCFC]

This is part of the Yingluck government's effort to promote the world's lingua franca in this our tongue-tied country.

It would further the effort if Yingluck and others in her cabinet, like her cousin the Foreign Minister Surapong, and who supposedly hold degrees from western countries, could role model English speech instead of fumbling and stumbling with it and ask for translators.

.

That's 'holds degrees' and not 'hold degrees'as you're referring to the 3rd person singular. I note that almost every post on this thread contains either a spelling or grammatical error; quite ironic considering the topic.

[animatic]

This is part of the Yingluck government's effort to promote the world's lingua franca in this our tongue-tied country.

It would further the effort if Yingluck and others in her cabinet, like her cousin the Foreign Minister Surapong, and who supposedly hold degrees from western countries, could role model English speech instead of fumbling and stumbling with it and ask for translators.

.

That's 'holds degrees' and not 'hold degrees'as you're referring to the 3rd person singular. I note that almost every post on this thread contains either a spelling or grammatical error; quite ironic considering the topic.

Of course tiny little screens on portable WiFi devices

makes it MUCH harder to see and edit posts,

no matter the level of your English skills.

Edited December 30, 2011 by animatic

[mijan24]

Ah, the Thai English teachers. One of my private students showed me his homework. I had helped him to understand the questions and how to answer them.

The teacher made a few corrections. All wrong, but one that stuck out and forever will be, is "She had an accident and went to the hospital"..... corrected to "She accidented and went to hospital".

There is nothing wrong with that corrected sentence. "...and went to the hospital" is perfectly correct. There are regional, geographical...blah blah blah differences in English...and also we all speak with accents.

Nigel you are joking of course nice try mate you nearly had me there.

[jayboy]

That's 'holds degrees' and not 'hold degrees'as you're referring to the 3rd person singular. I note that almost every post on this thread contains either a spelling or grammatical error; quite ironic considering the topic.

It's more than ironic: it's quite comical.The post you quoted actually had other grammatical errors but best not give a tutorial now.

It particularly amuses me how Thai critics of Khun Yingluck's English capability more often than not have rather poor English themselves.And as you have pointed out some native English speakers apparently also have trouble.Incidentally it's not for us to criticise members' poor English.The charge is hypocrisy not faulty grammar.

[tlansford]

This is part of the Yingluck government's effort to promote the world's lingua franca in this our tongue-tied country.

It would further the effort if Yingluck and others in her cabinet, like her cousin the Foreign Minister Surapong, and who supposedly hold degrees from western countries, could role model English speech instead of fumbling and stumbling with it and ask for translators.

.

That's 'holds degrees' and not 'hold degrees'as you're referring to the 3rd person singular. I note that almost every post on this thread contains either a spelling or grammatical error; quite ironic considering the topic.

Who can be either singular or plural. In this case, the structure of the sentence is a bit awkward. Who could refer to Yingluck only or to Yingluck and the others in her cabinet altogether. Assuming the poster is aware of that, the agreement of the verb is a clue regarding the intent of the writer.

Edited December 30, 2011 by tlansford

[Evilbaz]

I have a 15 y.o. niece staying with us.

She has attended school back home and here in Phuket regularly.

The only English she can speak is what I taught her.

To say that all Thai students are taught English at school is a load of codswallop.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Evilbaz

[philw]

English gives you access to the world of science, economics, global politics and thought. It enables you to read the English language version of many foreign papers, Pravda, Al-Jazeera, most European papers, and many Asian papers. You can become, if you choose so, an informed person. Thailand does not like its citizens to be informed people.

Sadly, that is the truth.

Depressing.

[Warhammer820]

Last year, around this time, I was in a university in Thailand for a promotion day they were holding for their university. I walked around until I found the English Education majors. I stopped and had a chat with them. They asked where I was from, so I said, "The United States." They looked puzzled, so I repeated it two times. The only male student at the tent spoke up and said, "Ahh France."

Edited December 30, 2011 by Warhammer820

[Namphonny]

I haven’t seen this point mentioned in any other post but to me it is especially relevant. I refer to the Thai word กระแดะ which is pronounced gradair (my transliteration). What it essentially means is that a Thai speaker attempting to speak correctly with a standard English accent is ridiculed by other Thais who prefer the Thai teacher’s version. It is rather like students in a low class comprehensive in the UK teasing another student who has a middle or upper class accent. My daughter speaks two English languages (in addition to her perfect Thai) one that she uses at home with me and the other that she uses at school both in lessons and the playground. IMO she would be disadvantaged in the future if she could speak only the latter.

[animatic]

I haven’t seen this point mentioned in any other post but to me it is especially relevant. I refer to the Thai word กระแดะ which is pronounced gradair (my transliteration). What it essentially means is that a Thai speaker attempting to speak correctly with a standard English accent is ridiculed by other Thais who prefer the Thai teacher’s version. It is rather like students in a low class comprehensive in the UK teasing another student who has a middle or upper class accent. My daughter speaks two English languages (in addition to her perfect Thai) one that she uses at home with me and the other that she uses at school both in lessons and the playground. IMO she would be disadvantaged in the future if she could speak only the latter.

Fortunately my daughter speaks and English so proper,

that I have to 'Americanize' her a bit from the British School pronunciation.

But her Thai accent sounds quite good to my ear also.

But that is the point I KNOW she needs both at high level and Chinese to be competitive in her future.

Not just have the language more or less, but SOUND intelligent in the language.

Edited December 30, 2011 by animatic

[chooka]

This is part of the Yingluck government's effort to promote the world's lingua franca in this our tongue-tied country.

It would further the effort if Yingluck and others in her cabinet, like her cousin the Foreign Minister Surapong, and who supposedly hold degrees from western countries, could role model English speech instead of fumbling and stumbling with it and ask for translators.

.

That's 'holds degrees' and not 'hold degrees'as you're referring to the 3rd person singular. I note that almost every post on this thread contains either a spelling or grammatical error; quite ironic considering the topic.

ain't all 100% flawless in every aspect like yourself proffessor.

Edited December 30, 2011 by chooka

[Valentine]

Let's keep it really really simple.

Practice makes perfect.

Most Thai's do not have perfect english

Therefore they need more practice.

End of story. Learning from books and "studying" grammar is not practice. If all they did was talk English 50% of the time in English class their English would be far far better. No qualified teacher can outdo practice no matter where they went to school or what books they bring to the class room. The best English teacher in the world would be one that made them practice, practice practice.

Any new program that doesn't implement a lot of practice will fail.

I reckon this is the way to go & would be a lot more fun for the students to improve their English as the majority of them do not get any exposure to English speaking people once outside of school. Encourage them to speak English amongst themselves outside of class as well. My girls ask me grammar questions from school which I cannot answer yet I consider myself pretty proficient in reading, writing & speaking English. After all, I grew up in NZ. It seems that the English curriculum put a lot of emphasis on the nuances of grammar & ignore the basics of speaking & increasing vocabulary.

[123thaibourbon]

having resided in The Kingdom a few short years and fortunate to visit several times thereafter, these are some thoughts to contribute: (1-9)

1. 1986-92, most TV broadcasting times/content were scheduled M-R 5pm-1am. FSS varied. SW Radio, VOA, BBC, music casssettes & VDO's were available in English as quality varied.

2. Sesame Street, Tom-n-Jerry in English for children would have been helpful or similar programs as other nations strategically initiated during actual school hours.

3. Some English programs w/ Thai subtitles or completely dubbed in Thai. same goes for the many 'Chinese/HK' based mega-dramas.

4. Up-scale Bkk cinema theaters did offer foriegn movies, mostly Hollywood productions in English w/st's. Some from HK, Japan, India Taiwan et al.

5. Agree, wealthier families able to afford 'better' schools and education abroad.

6. 1992-present, www emerges and bursts into a reality connecting people like never before.

7. $64T ?, gaining English skills/influence diminishes the culture, id & unity of everything THAI.

8. Thailand is in transformation. These new policies of PM Yingluck seem very plausible. Mandarin, Arabic & Korean are becoming important to learn as well.

9. accents are normal. given = chance, Thai peoples are as able as any other. As a once monoglot American, I learned many things from the generous nature of Thailand.

Edited December 31, 2011 by 123thaibourbon