Prices On Plasma Tvs

[The Coder]

The thing is, plasma in particular *should* be cheaper in Thailand because that is where many of the panels are manufactured.

I don't think you're corrent on this, I think all the panels are made in Korea and Japan.

Actually, I am very sure plasma panels are manufactured in Thailand because I know a Thai gentleman who works at the plant in Korat. The other interesting tidbit is he said each brand like Sony, Panasonic, etc all use the same identical panel manufactured there. There is no difference in quality of what each brand will get.

[solo siam]

Most panels are made in Korea, China and Japan - I cant think of any Plasma or LCD facilities in Thailand. Theres probably only 4 or 5 factories in the world that make the majority of these panels, its often the electronics that are developed by the different brand names eg Sony, Lg, Samsung etc... that differentiate the TV's.

I'm pretty certain that korat isn't a major manufacturer of panels.

[Firefoxx]

My point was that the latest generation of TV's, That is LCD TV's by Sony and BenQ are the same price as the USA.

In regards to USA plasma sets having HD tuners I'm not sure about that as you certainly cant get High Definition through an aerial as such, or surround sound and a HD panel is a HD Panel, alongside all the electonic gizmos to scale and process a signal.

Also bear in mind there are very FEW plasma sets that are High Definition (Which is a resolution of 1280x720 or 1920x1080).

Well, Coder has found a cheaper price for the Bravia. I chose Amazon as an example since it has a large selection, and prices are sometimes good, sometimes MSRP (especially on new items like the Bravia). So, even the Bravia can be had for considerbly less in the US, and the Benq too. Again, I refer you to the fact of price fixing here. In the US, the MSRP is just that, a "suggested" price. In Thailand, it's law (at least, according to the contract between the dealers and manufacturers). So, in no way will you find a name brand HDTV being sold at 30% discount here (unless, of course, the manufacturer organizes a nation-wide discount), unlike in the US, where it's commonplace.

The FCC mandated several years ago that *ALL* new TVs (over a certain size, but plasmas certainly fit the bill) sold in the US are required to have HDTV (ATSC) "off-the-air" tuners, which pick up *broadcasted* HDTV signals, which have been broadcasted in the US and Europe (but not all channels yet, and the coverage is not great) for several years now. No, it's not cable HDTV, it's broadcast HDTV. You can look it up on the net. The reason is that there is a deadline, a few years from now, in which all US TV stations have to cease standard definition broadcasts and do only HD broadcasts.

Actually, there are few of *any* type of TV in use right now which has actual HDTV resolution, whether it is 720p or 1080i (very rare). However, they're *still* considered HDTVs. So, moot point, really.

I would go with LCDs any day, if only, as mentioned earlier, they didn't have bad contrast, bad blacks, bad whites, bad response times, bad backlights, bad viewing angles, and small sizes. LCDs, as with all other techs, have their ups and downs. The newest tech, SED, will have all the picture quality of a conventional CRT with the thin size and resolution of an LCD, since it's a combination of the two worlds. Of course, you won't see them in volume until next year, and they won't be affordable until the year after that.

And the Benq is butt-ugly, with or without the speakers... I was referring to the design as a whole. Sort of like the Westinghouse 37" LCD. But hey, it's cheap.

So one person says plasma panels *are* made in Thailand, another says otherwise, and both are quite certain. Oh, well, that's just the miracle of web forums.

[solo siam]

All the LCD TV's generally have a 720P resolution, I havent seen a single HD Plasma for sale here in Thailand.

The over the air stuff you are talking about is Digital TV, not HDTV (at least in Europe but I'm guessing also the states), Seeing as HDTV needs pretty massive bandwidth I'm not sure how over-the-air HDTV works exactly. Also why on earth will all over-the-air signals have to be HD in a few years time, that means everyone with a normal TV (80% of people) wont be able to watch it.

There are two 40" Bravias, The one with the HDMI is 150,000 baht here, the one without is 120,000 Baht. Besides after another look I still CANT find it for sale for under $2,900 + Tax.

LCD's dont have bad contrast or viewing angles, I think you havent seen the latest ones in action.

[Firefoxx]

All the LCD TV's generally have a 720P resolution, I havent seen a single HD Plasma for sale here in Thailand.

I was speaking of "in use" HDTVs, which includes a lot of non-720p LCDtvs (since it's a relatively recent trend... remember 640x480 LCDs? They're still sold.). Also, there *are* 720p capable plasmas available in Thailand. Go to your local plasma dealer (I was there yesterday, so I can say it with utter, complete confidence). They're just very expensive.

The over the air stuff you are talking about is Digital TV, not HDTV (at least in Europe but I'm guessing also the states), Seeing as HDTV needs pretty massive bandwidth I'm not sure how over-the-air HDTV works exactly. Also why on earth will all over-the-air signals have to be HD in a few years time, that means everyone with a normal TV (80% of people) wont be able to watch it.

No. No. No. I did say to do a search... a simple search would have yielded proof of what I said. Oh, well, here it is:

FCC tuner mandate: You may have heard that all TVs will have to be HDTVs by 2006. That's not technically correct. The FCC has mandated that certain sizes of televisions on sale on certain dates have built-in ATSC tuners. Here's a look at the FCC's proposed rollout as it stands as of November 2005:

Date TV sizes that must include ATSC tuner*

March 1, 2005 All TVs 36 inches or larger; half of all TVs 25 inches or larger

March 1, 2006 All TVs 25 inches or larger

March 1, 2007 All TVs regardless of screen size

*Note: Does not apply to monitors, such as many plasmas and front-projectors, that lack built-in standard (NTSC) tuners.

In November 2005, the Senate passed a bill called the Digital Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 that states that over-the-air television stations are to cease their analog broadcasts by April 7, 2009. After that date, TVs and other gear with old-style NTSC tuners would be unable to receive over-the-air broadcasts. Part of the government's quandary is that the switch-off would cause thousands of TVs to go dark and would deprive many lower-income viewers of their only source of TV. To address this issue, the Act designates $3 billion to subsidize converter boxes that would allow people to watch the new digital broadcasts on their old analog TVs. Further details on the transition to digital are still being worked out, and given the slow progress it's faced over the last 8 years since the introduction of digital and HDTV, we wouldn't be surprised to hear of more changes before 2009.

Cable and satellite: The FCC's plans for ATSC tuners have nothing to do with HDTV over cable and satellite. Subscribers to pay TV services can simply get a set-top box that tunes HDTV channels, plug it into their HDTV-ready sets, and watch HDTV.

Some new HDTVs are digital cable ready (DCR), meaning they can tune digital cable channels, including HDTV if the cable provider has HDTV channels, without needing an external cable box. To use a DCR television, you'll need to get a special access card from your cable provider, called a CableCard. Unlike actual digital cable boxes, current DCR TVs can't do video-on-demand at all, and you must pick up a phone if you want to order pay-per-view programs. Using the card with some sets also means you can't access the electronic program guide (EPG), although many new DCR HDTVs include a third-party EPG, such as the TV Guide system, as a substitute.

Note: It says that the act was passed on 2005, but AFAIK it was a revision of an earlier act, which pushed back the deadline. I think the original target was 2007.

There are two 40" Bravias, The one with the HDMI is 150,000 baht here, the one without is 120,000 Baht. Besides after another look I still CANT find it for sale for under $2,900 + Tax.

Lo and behold:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-KDL-V40XBR1-KDLV4...1QQcmdZViewItem

That's a "buy it now" item, for $2600+$300shipping, which is roughly 116,000 baht, compared to the *fixed* (and again, I emphasize the "fixed" part) 149,990 of Thailand.

LCD's dont have bad contrast or viewing angles, I think you havent seen the latest ones in action.

Since you were picking LCDs over other TV technologies, I was speaking relatively. I've seen the Bravias, and their contrast and viewing angles are still *very* bad compared to say, CRTs, or even plasmas. And this is talking about the top of the line model, which is $$$. I did say that LCDs have their good points (weight, power, resolution, etc), but I would never say that they beat all.

Edited January 17, 2006 by Firefoxx

[Thaipwriter]

These guys have a 42inch LG plasma panel for 69,000 baht. special offer.

http://www.akibkk.com/

scroll down the homepage a bit

Thats about a bag of sand in the UK

[solo siam]

Firefoxx, read your post and it only talks about Digital over-the-air transmissions not HDTV. Digital TV is not HDTV, UBC is digital as is all satellite and most cable technology. They have the same Digital TV act in teh UK which says that analogue TV signals will be switched off on X date, it has nothing to do with HDTV though.

HDTV is by definition (sorry) either 720P or 1080i (P). HDTV does not mean a flash TV, a big TV or an LCD TV etc... it is a standard of resolutions. You may be getting confused by the HD ready stickers that manufacturers have stuck on their TV's so that people will be tricked into buying them thinking they are high def, theyre not - Its a ploy by manufacturers so that consumers feel safe buying less expensive TV's.

I can buy almost anything on ebay for 15% less than in most shops in America so its not surprising that you managed to find a Sony Bravia on ebay in the USA for 20% less than in Thailand, in fact its testament to my statement that the price differences are closing in.

Also most shops I know are displaying a price of 144,900 baht for the Bravia, which is 5k baht off of the RRP, I alos know that they will discount a tiny amount off this if pushed.

[rcalsop]

, I have always liked TV gizmos ...I had the first available Teletex set ..actually before the panel for the decoding was available I retrofitted that , Then I bought the early Toshiba bigscreen with surround sound before joe public even knew about it . Purchased direct from Toshiba warehouse,

I was amongst the first 10,000 Sky satelite purchasers a Murdock nominated SKY Pioneer ( this gave me some great up grade discounts) .

Then the early digital /wide screen .

I started searching in Thailand and found I could not justify the price for LCD and or plasma as I knew the price had to fall rapidly as new factories to produce them will be on line producing end 2005 with more 2006 leading to over capacity globally and a significant price tumble or improved value for money ..

what did I buy ???

a Samsung 42 inch projection TV mostly for UBC / and local cable with barely adequate transmittion standard local cable is mono . Pirated Dvd standards can vary widely also .......the Samsung 42 Projection with free DVD and home theatre freebie at 44,000 ( they are now cheaper ) was a great buy .

We are very happy and in normal viewing me close up my wife from the far side of our Kitchen /Diner /living room (open plan) can also watch from the Kitchen . The viewing angle fine , resolution more than adequate .. it will last me a other few years then may be the facts of LCD and Plasma will be clearer...

[Carmine6]

Firefoxx, read your post and it only talks about Digital over-the-air transmissions not HDTV. Digital TV is not HDTV, UBC is digital as is all satellite and most cable technology. They have the same Digital TV act in teh UK which says that analogue TV signals will be switched off on X date, it has nothing to do with HDTV though.

HDTV is by definition (sorry) either 720P or 1080i (P). HDTV does not mean a flash TV, a big TV or an LCD TV etc... it is a standard of resolutions. You may be getting confused by the HD ready stickers that manufacturers have stuck on their TV's so that people will be tricked into buying them thinking they are high def, theyre not - Its a ploy by manufacturers so that consumers feel safe buying less expensive TV's.

I can buy almost anything on ebay for 15% less than in most shops in America so its not surprising that you managed to find a Sony Bravia on ebay in the USA for 20% less than in Thailand, in fact its testament to my statement that the price differences are closing in.

Also most shops I know are displaying a price of 144,900 baht for the Bravia, which is 5k baht off of the RRP, I alos know that they will discount a tiny amount off this if pushed.

I can confirm that the major US networks broadcast HDTV that can be received via the old aerial antennas. It's a separate signal from the regular broadcast and is a full HD signal and not just digital. I watched the last Olympics in High Def and the picture was astonishing. Normally the HD broadcast is the same as the regular one, but the Olympics had different programming on HD. This is because they only used a limited amount of HD cameras. Otherwise the screen would have jumped from full aspect to regular as they switched cameras. When I moved out of line of sight of the mountain that the antennas are on top of, I lost the HD broadcast.

The HD broadcast isn't available in all areas, just the major metropolitan areas, but it is rolling out as more people have sets that can take advantage. Not all shows are in HD, so lots of times, there really wasn't any difference between the regular and HD signal.

Many of the new HD sets do have a HD receiver built in. I'm not sure if most or close to all of them do, but the ones I glanced at around Christmas did have them. My old set requires a separate box, but the signal is over the air and not cable.

Note the sites below specifically say available over-the-air.

http://abc.go.com/site/hdtvfaq.html

http://www.nbc.com/Footer/HDTV/

[Firefoxx]

It seems like nothing will make you actually believe that there is, indeed, over-the-air HDTV (yes, 720p and 1080i... I'm a computer geek, I actually know quite deeply these things), short of you actually flying over to those countries and witnessing it for yourself. I said "do a search" and you don't. I give proof, and you end up confusing yourself, saying that I'm the one who's got it mixed up. I give up.

As you said, the Bravia is new. It's so new, in fact, that most stores are still selling it at MSRP, which is $2999. However, as is the trend in the US, you can easily find (at least, for not-so-brand-new products) HDTVs at much less than MSRP. Again, I refer to the price fixing. Again, the crux of the matter, which I'm trying oh-so-very-hard to point out, is the rigid price fixing. Oh, yes, I did mention before that you can get 5% off at non-major-stores, it's normal. But attempt more, and you're not going to get anywhere, especially with the Bravias, whose only "freebie" is a Bravia T-shirt (woo-hoo).

And hey, you wanted a cheap price, and you said you couldn't find one. I found one, on e-bay, from a legit power seller, and even added the shipping.

Really, I give up. I'm going to lose my sanity if I try to keep this up.

[solo siam]

HDTV may be available over the-air but thats not what the governments of the US and Europe are saying all Tv's must adhere to, They are talking about digital OTA broadcasts (Both SDTV and HDTV) - The thing that is getting "Switched Off" is analogue signals.

In regards to ebay I can find anything on there for 30% off of RRP so its not really a fair comparison.

I took another look at the Bravias today and their viewing angle is almost 160 Degrees, blacks where solid and whites where astonoshing - They put every Plasma in the shop to shame even when fed with the exact same (digital) signal. With a good source, nothing can touch LCD except projectors of course which is another matter (They are nearly 2.5 times teh price here as in Hong Kong).

[Firefoxx]

Ben, I love the way you jump from one thing to another, it's no wonder I'm getting such a headache. If you'll remember what you said:

"In regards to USA plasma sets having HD tuners I'm not sure about that as you certainly cant get High Definition through an aerial as such," "The over the air stuff you are talking about is Digital TV, not HDTV"

So. Is HDTV(720p, 1080i) being broadcast, over the air? Is it being received through normal aerials? Are HDTVs sold in the US sold with built-in HDTV over-the-air tuners? All a definite "yes". Oh, it's not *analog* HDTV, but I never said that it was. I also never said that the new (digital) standard doesn't also broadcast SD, since it does. So, want to change the point of the discussion, yet again? You could have *EASILY* done a simple search on google and gotten the facts yourself, saving both of us a lot of time.

I try to give straight answers, but if you're not going to do the same, I really can't argue.

[solo siam]

"Are HDTVs sold in the US sold with built-in HDTV over-the-air tuners?"

No, not necessarily - Even the text you cut and paste before states that.

If you want me to pull you up on everything you said incorrectly I can if you like, Lets see, you stated that a 640x480 LCD Monitor was a High Definition Set when its not in anyway, shape or form.

"the US models include a HDTV tuner"

Which is simply not true, some may have a digital tuner but many do not.

Besides Im still correct that whats happening is that analogue signals are simply being changed to Digital, it has nothing to do with High Definition. You quoted me on saying this before and then cited the FCC tuner mandate as proof of standard definition being switched off, which simply is not the case.

The ATSC standard has 18 resolutions all of which must be able to be resolved, there is nothing stated that all digital transmissions from 2007/2009 will be in the highest resolution.

[Jai Dee]

I took another look at the Bravias today and their viewing angle is almost 160 Degrees, blacks where solid and whites where astonoshing - They put every Plasma in the shop to shame even when fed with the exact same (digital) signal. With a good source, nothing can touch LCD except projectors of course which is another matter (They are nearly 2.5 times teh price here as in Hong Kong).

The Bravia is a fantastic TV... nothing on the market quite like it... and as you say... the viewing angle is superb.

Its a pity that the largest model is currently only 40".

[Carmine6]

...

Besides Im still correct that whats happening is that analogue signals are simply being changed to Digital, it has nothing to do with High Definition. ...

This is true only as regards the regulations. The FCC is requiring digital, but the big Networks are taking it the step further and broacasting HD in many cities already. They are actually filming shows in HD now and have been for some time. The "Tonight Show" with Jay Leno started broadcasting in HD in 1999. If you don't want to believe someone who's actually seen the HD over the air broadcasts, then try this site:

http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108854-1.html

From the first paragraph:

"...the major broadcast networks (including ABC, CBS, Fox, and NBC) offer almost all of their scripted prime-time shows in high definition; and HDTV signals are readily available, either over the air or via cable or satellite."

As relates to tuners:

"The situation will only continue to improve as the FCC mandates more built-in DTV tuners. The ruling currently requires that all TVs sized 36 inches or larger include built-in tuners. The mandate trickles down to smaller TVs and other gear with TV tuners, such as VCRs and DVD recorders, until finally, on July 1, 2007, every TV tuner sold will be able to receive digital broadcasts."

In pratice, few larger TV's seem to have a digital tuner that isn't also HD. The BenQ 37" does not have a tuner, but the Sony Bravia 26" and 40" at Best Buy do have HD tuners. The Sony Bravia 32" is available with an HD tuner, or with an analog tuner not a digital tuner.

[solo siam]

I have read up on the OTA HD Broadcasts now, so know that its possible (in America).

Digital broadcasting will be able to supply SD and HD signals, Digital Tuners (In America) have to be able to accept any of those signals and convert them into the TV's native resolution. So Standard Definition TV's will continue to work after 07/09 as long as they have a digital tuner. Many channels will start switching over to HD broadcasts over the next few years with perhaps 25-35% of channels being in HD by 07/09, still I do not think that all broadcasting will be in HD for at least 10 years or so.

This is all only relevant to the USA market (Perhaps Korea) as Europe will no doubt have another set of standards other than ATSC.

[Jai Dee]

This is all only relevant to the USA market...

Phew... I'm glad that discussion is over...

Can we get back to talking about big TV's in Thailand now?