Engine Overhaul

[Thaiboxer]

A while back there was a thread on how 95 octane gas was to be phased out sometime next year to make way for gasahol. I know most older vehicles like mine will not take gasahol too well and certain components in the fuel system will be destroyed even though it won't hurt the engine.

Has anybody had an old car engine overhauled in order that it can take gasahol? I figured that this procedure would involve a fair amount of work, gasket replacements, etc but I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done. If anybody has had this done or knows what it entails, please post any info including costs of labor, parts, etc. I want to keep our old tank running as long as possible. Thanks

[Crossy]

I'm still waiting for BMW Germany to get back to me (BMW Thailand were useless).

A bit of web searching suggests that fuel lines, tank lining, fuel pump and possibly injectors will be the parts affected. Any rubber seals will also have to be replaced.

The alternative is to use 91 with a non-alcohol octane booster (like the one made by STP). I'm looking into possible supplies here. It's available in Malaysia so it ought to be obtainable here.

If you have a really old bus you may be able to retard the ignition timing and run it on straight 91 accepting the resulting loss of power.

[Thaiboxer]

Thanks Crossy

How would one retard the ignition timing? Is this a fairly simple/cheap procedure? It sounds a lot easier than replacing several parts to make way for gasahol; provided that 91 will continue to be available. If the engine knocks with 91, then I guess I'll have to keep running it on 95 and then eventually have it overhauled for gasahol. I can also try that booster you mentioned. I saw something the other day in the mall which is made by STP; not sure if it's what you're talking about.

[andyfletch]

This is the one you're looking for:

[mijan24]

Gasahol will not require an engine overhaul - the parts that can be effected a minor and relates to their composition reacting to the gasahol mix. Fuel lines etc.

Retarding ignition is a very simple procedure.

Try "google" there are some good informative sites on this topic.

[benlee53]

I ride a Harley Davison and my machnic told me if i run 95 octane or gasohol you will have big problems with the rubbers in the carb.I then went to google and looked up gasohol and they did a study on the effect gasohol has on rubber and they said that if you have a fuel line of rubber that would last 10 years under normal fuel then under gasohol it would last 9 years. so thats the skinny on gasohol as far as retarding timing i would'nt do it.

As my pappy used to say if it ain't broke don't fix it

[mijan24]

As my pappy used to say if it ain't broke don't fix it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

benlee53 Your pappy was a wise man

[monty]

I have an excellent condition 23 year old volvo 245.

It has a 2.3 engine with one of the first electronic injections from Bosch. (LH 2.2)

The kind people from Bosch told me to stay as far away from gasohol as possible!

Better to fill up on straight 91, since my engine has a knock sensor and will adjust engine parameters accordingly when knocking occurs.

They reckon it will cost me about 10% in power, but only when going full throtle..

The fuel system on this car is quite complex, with two electric fuel pumps, one of them located submerged in the fueltank!

Bosch tells me the entire fuel system is not up to the task of handling alcohol containing fuels, especially not at that age...

The same injection system was widel used by Volvo, Saab and Volkswagen cars between 1981 and 1990.

Older cars will most probably have the mechanical K-jet injection from Bosch, which also will not handle gasohol!

Edited November 30, 2005 by monty

[mijan24]

I have an excellent condition 23 year old volvo 245.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vehicles that were manufactured pre 1985 certainly a problem with gasahol the australian Government are investigating this particular problem.

The fuel system on this car is quite complex, with two electric fuel pumps, one of them located submerged in the fueltank! quite common one is low pressure the other high pressure the purpose on the in tank pump is to keep a head of pressure up to the exteral pump. in laymans terms this means the external pump 'just pumps' it doesn't have to suck up & then pump to maintain head pressure at the FIP or carburettor depending on what vehicle your are piloting.

[Gazza]

I ride a Harley Davison and my machnic told me if i run 95 octane or gasohol you will have big problems with the rubbers in the carb.I then went to google and looked up gasohol and they did a study on the effect gasohol has on rubber and they said that if you have a fuel line of rubber that would last 10 years under normal fuel  then under gasohol it would last 9 years. so thats the skinny on gasohol as far as retarding timing i would'nt do it.

As my pappy used to say if it ain't broke don't fix it

Don't know how old your Harley is but according to a 1994 HD owners handbook, Gasohol is ok to use but there may be slight drops in performance.

HD would obviously be referring to standard bikes, so if you have an aftermarket carb then it might be wise to check with the carb manufacturer.

Mines a '98 and the carb is standard but don't know if the split-tank fuel crossover tube is ok or not as it's an aftermarket EZ detachable one. Easy enough to replace anyway should gasohol ruin it over time.

[Thaiboxer]

My car was made before 1985 so it probably falls into the anti-gasohol category. I will shop around for that STP Octane Booster and see what I can find.

andyfletch...thanks for the pic!

With all the vehicles here in Thailand that are old and won't take gasohol, there could be enough protest against the phasing out of 95 octane gas that the stations may just continue selling it.

[Plus+]

Don't panic yet, gasohol sales account for only a couple of percents now, even if they really really want to switch to gasohol they simply don't have it. They'll probably need to import ethanol, too, which defies the original point - to reduce imports.

So far the idea is only a political one with not much practical or economical sense to it. Gasohol is cheaper at the moment, but it's also subsidised. How many buyers would be there if not for the subsidy?

[pal78]

So far the idea is only a political one with not much practical or economical sense to it. Gasohol is cheaper at the moment, but it's also subsidised. How many buyers would be there if not for the subsidy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Completely agree with you. I suspect that virtually everyone using gasohol are only doing so because of the cheaper price. From what I understand about it, if gasohol was the same price it would actually end up costing you more, because you suffer a slight reduction in fuel consumption with gasohol.

But while it's cheaper, I'll keep using it.

Practical or not, they are serious about this. I read that regular 95 will be gone by 2007.

[monty]

It seems my friends Nissan Cefiro took an 8% hit in fuel consumption,

So gasohol being only about 6% cheaper does not give hime an advantage financially!

[monty]

It seems my friends Nissan Cefiro took an 8% hit in fuel consumption,

So gasohol being only about 6% cheaper does not give hime an advantage financially!

[Plus]

Thai gasohol seem to increase fuel consumption, I've read it a few times though no numbers were given. Here is the problem - there's no scientific or any other technical data on gasohol available, let alone independently verified. Just lots of hot air. I wouldn't mind switching to gasohol if I could trust the government, but this is not the case, not with my car.

2007? It was supposed to be this coming January.

[Crossy]

Thai gasohol seem to increase fuel consumption, I've read it a few times though no numbers were given. Here is the problem - there's no scientific or any other technical data on gasohol available, let alone independently verified. Just lots of hot air. I wouldn't mind switching to gasohol if I could trust the government, but this is not the case, not with my car.

2007? It was supposed to be this coming January.

Yeah, I heard January as well

Still no definitive reply from BMW Germany

I'm very wary of government information, I lost an engine in the UK when they introduced unleaded fuel, failed due to valve seat erosion, govt. said 'no problem'.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Crossy

[Thaiboxer]

Unless it's officially announced in the Thai newspapers, it probably won't happen. If they do want us to convert to gasohol, I would make sure everything necessary were done to the engine; wouldn't want to go through what crossy went through.

[Thetyim]

Gasohol makes no sense at all.

One member here has indicated an increase in fuel consumption of 25 percent. From reading the net I often see figures of 20 percent quoted

This will not reduce fuel imports it will increase them

[Thaiboxer]

A twenty percent decline in fuel efficienty is pretty severe. Better to stick with the better fuel even if the price is higher.

[Tywais]

Is it possible to use 91 and add an additive to correct for the difference, or to use 91 and advance/retard the engine timing?

[Crossy]

Is it possible to use 91 and add an additive to correct for the difference, or to use 91 and advance/retard the engine timing?

STP make a non-alcohol octane booster (there's a piccy in one of andyfletch's posts earlier in this thread), I've not found it in Thailand yet, but I'm sure some enterprising person will start importing it.

You can retard the ignition to use 91 on certain (usually older) engines, depends on the ignition system in use. Talk to your local mechanic.

[Thaiboxer]

I will definitely check into that; retarding the ignition may be the best solution if I need to switch to 91. If worse comes to worse and the engine doesn't take it, I can perhaps overhaul it or even get a more recently made engine from another vehicle and have it dropped in. The engine I have now isn't the original either...it's actually a slightly bigger one which is one reason why the mileage is so bad.