Two Tier System

[maccaroni man]

in indo you use a passport but if you have a visa or what they call kitas you pay the same as a local. i go to the national parks with my thai family and my type O non imm visa and as sbk said the money changers end up getting into a debate with my wife. california offers a discount to it's residence as well at disney. I think they assume that the state residence pay taxes within the state which benefits the park.

[BangrakBob]

if you dont like it stop moaning and go home !!!!

i am home its been my home since September lol i lived in Florida about 12 years ago and its state residency as been said, Spain has the same on flights and ferry's and if you have residency in spain you get half price fares, and i think it is race here as if it was residency they would just want proof of it would be asked but it isn't i am known in my local fish market now and treat one of them ish now and i have to say the service i get now to the first day is a lot better.they see westerns as have more money so we have to pay more in some cases not all.

in Britain it would be seen as racism without a doubt

But generally speaking we do have more money and the Thais have much less. For those that chose to live here, and are not tourists is not a differentiation Thais really care about generally. Could look at it this way, we are paying full-price and the Thais are getting discount because they can't afford to pay more. At the end of the day, if you think it is good value buy it. If not then don't. With a Western income or earned money, paying an extra 20-50 Baht is not being ripped off.

It's not necessarily about the money for me but more about the principle. At the end of the day I pay tax here and should be given the same price as locals. Simple, really.

This is pure racism, in total contrast to the Disney sample that was given.

I understand your point, but it's hardly racism. Racial discrimination perhaps.

[limbos]

Fair enough Bob.

[nod]

if you dont like it stop moaning and go home !!!!

i am home its been my home since September lol i lived in Florida about 12 years ago and its state residency as been said, Spain has the same on flights and ferry's and if you have residency in spain you get half price fares, and i think it is race here as if it was residency they would just want proof of it would be asked but it isn't i am known in my local fish market now and treat one of them ish now and i have to say the service i get now to the first day is a lot better.they see westerns as have more money so we have to pay more in some cases not all.

in Britain it would be seen as racism without a doubt

But generally speaking we do have more money and the Thais have much less. For those that chose to live here, and are not tourists is not a differentiation Thais really care about generally. Could look at it this way, we are paying full-price and the Thais are getting discount because they can't afford to pay more. At the end of the day, if you think it is good value buy it. If not then don't. With a Western income or earned money, paying an extra 20-50 Baht is not being ripped off.

I don't like the two tier system either but I think Bob's statement above might be the best way of thinking about it and settling ones mind on the issue. The Thais get a "members" discount and we don't, so to speak.

[Tropicalevo]

Even disney world in Orlando have double pricing. One for Forida resident, and the rest pay a higher price.

So it's based on residency, i.e. where you live, rather than on your passport or race

Lol, what is a passport other than ultimate proof of residency?

Not quite correct there necron. I have a British passport , but I am resident in Thailand. I have not lived in Britain since 1993.

Anyway, back to the op. It is not two-tier pricing - there are at least 4 tiers.

Local Thai

Tourist Thai

Local ex-pat

The rest.

[MAJIC]

nothing beats the Madame Tussards double pricing !!!! , and it is well over the double the price of a Thai to enter in Bangkok .... i was quite shocked that an international company would have this policy here ......

And the original Madame Tussauds in London has to charge the same price to all,due to discrimination Laws!

Maybe Thailand has bought the Franchise???

Edited January 10, 2012 by MAJIC

[sbk]

Even disney world in Orlando have double pricing. One for Forida resident, and the rest pay a higher price.

So it's based on residency, i.e. where you live, rather than on your passport or race

Lol, what is a passport other than ultimate proof of residency?

Not quite correct there necron. I have a British passport , but I am resident in Thailand. I have not lived in Britain since 1993.

Anyway, back to the op. It is not two-tier pricing - there are at least 4 tiers.

Local Thai

Tourist Thai

Local ex-pat

The rest.

Thats funny if sort of true, but you have it in the wrong order as far as I have seen on Koh Phangan with actual locals (rather than just non-local Thais who live here)

Local Thai

Local foreigner

Tourist Thai

Tourist Foreigner

Japanese tourist

Arrogant Thai tourist pays more than all of the above

[Sophistichica]

While I admit that yes, it does wind me up on occasion, especially when the price is doubled. (Such an example is the kebab shop on Soi Green Mango, 150-200baht per kebab for farang, exactly the same kebab is 80 baht for a Thai person.

But then the double standard (which obviously came about as a result of the two tier system) is that farang get paid more than a thai person, in their own country (which would piss me off). A typical teaching job pays around 30/40k a month, a thai person is lucky to get a quarter of that. Service staff are paid anything from 4k a month to 8k a month (yes they also get tips) whereas a farang person starts at 20-25k.

Swings in roundabouts.... However it's true, once you become a loyal customer, you will often get a good discount after a while and always be nice and friendly, first rule of Thailand is NEVER LOOSE YOUR TEMPER!!

[insertmembernamehere]

Using the "we have more money" logic, that would mean that wealthy Thais should pay the "full" price too. There are lots of Thais who have buckets more cash than I do.

And by the same reasoning, a tourist from a poorer country should pay less than someone from a richer country.

The current system is not defined along "wealth lines," it is clearly stated on tickets and booths across the country -- Thais/foreigners. It's us vs them. It's our local race of people versus every other race. I mean, what else is it?

As for people getting around the double pricing, that's great (I try it every time too, with decent success), but the fact remains that the vast majority of foreigners are tourists who have no trump card to use.

[itishothere]

but the fact remains that the vast majority of foreigners are tourists who have no trump card to use.

Absolutely true. Together with the fact that they are often unaware that it is going on. Whilst ever the price of the meal here is lower than what it is back in their home country, they will assume they are being treated fairly, as it is cheap! And who can blame them for not arguing .... they are on holiday having a good time.

[Tropicalevo]

Using the "we have more money" logic, that would mean that wealthy Thais should pay the "full" price too. There are lots of Thais who have buckets more cash than I do.

And by the same reasoning, a tourist from a poorer country should pay less than someone from a richer country.

The current system is not defined along "wealth lines," it is clearly stated on tickets and booths across the country -- Thais/foreigners. It's us vs them. It's our local race of people versus every other race. I mean, what else is it?

As for people getting around the double pricing, that's great (I try it every time too, with decent success), but the fact remains that the vast majority of foreigners are tourists who have no trump card to use.

You are almost correct - but it is based on averages. Not the wealthiest or the poorest.

The average Foreigner in Thailand is MUCH more wealthy than your average Thai. Sorry - but is a fact.

If I have to pay 200 baht to go to a National Park - it's not that great a price to pay for a great lifestyle that I could not afford (or even get) in most of Europe.

[doingok]

if you dont like it stop moaning and go home !!!!

i am home its been my home since September lol i lived in Florida about 12 years ago and its state residency as been said, Spain has the same on flights and ferry's and if you have residency in spain you get half price fares, and i think it is race here as if it was residency they would just want proof of it would be asked but it isn't i am known in my local fish market now and treat one of them ish now and i have to say the service i get now to the first day is a lot better.they see westerns as have more money so we have to pay more in some cases not all.

in Britain it would be seen as racism without a doubt

But generally speaking we do have more money and the Thais have much less. For those that chose to live here, and are not tourists is not a differentiation Thais really care about generally. Could look at it this way, we are paying full-price and the Thais are getting discount because they can't afford to pay more. At the end of the day, if you think it is good value buy it. If not then don't. With a Western income or earned money, paying an extra 20-50 Baht is not being ripped off.

It's not necessarily about the money for me but more about the principle. At the end of the day I pay tax here and should be given the same price as locals. Simple, really.

This is pure racism, in total contrast to the Disney sample that was given.

totally agree

[doingok]

but the fact remains that the vast majority of foreigners are tourists who have no trump card to use.

Absolutely true. Together with the fact that they are often unaware that it is going on. Whilst ever the price of the meal here is lower than what it is back in their home country, they will assume they are being treated fairly, as it is cheap! And who can blame them for not arguing .... they are on holiday having a good time.

100% with this

[insertmembernamehere]

OK, but using, "The average foreigner in Thailand is MUCH wealthier than your average Thai," model would mean that EVERYTHING a foreigner buys here should have a double pricing system. All menus should have two prices; all hotels and resorts should have two rates for rooms, etc. .. .

Why should this only apply to, say, waterfalls?

[Rooo]

How many times have you heard visitors say " It's so cheap " ? To the average tourist here for the first time, they don't care.

[sbk]

I had a junior high school teacher that taught me a valuable lesson that has served me well:

Nobody ever said that life was fair

[insertmembernamehere]

How many times have you heard visitors say " It's so cheap " ? To the average tourist here for the first time, they don't care.

I agree that Thailand is cheaper than the West, but the point here is that in certain places, foreigners have their faces rubbed in it by being priced gouged.

The interesting question is this: Why these certain places? Why over-charge foreigners compared to Thais for things that might have cultural significance.

At temples or museums you'd think that the Thais would WANT the foreigner to enjoy and understand these places without the lingering aftertaste of being "taken" at the front gate.

And by the way, even if Thais in general are not as wealthy as foreigners, the difference in price in many venues would not break a Thai visitor's bank account. Any Thai can pay 10 baht or 50 baht for an entry; no Thai would go to a place and see that the fare was 50 baht and not 10 baht and say, "Oh, well....can't afford that. Let's go home."

It's profiteering, plain and simple. And profiteering based on race. Draw your own conclusions.

[BangrakBob]

Nobody ever said that life was fair

sums it up well

[necronx99]

How many times have you heard visitors say " It's so cheap " ? To the average tourist here for the first time, they don't care.

I agree that Thailand is cheaper than the West, but the point here is that in certain places, foreigners have their faces rubbed in it by being priced gouged.

The interesting question is this: Why these certain places? Why over-charge foreigners compared to Thais for things that might have cultural significance.

At temples or museums you'd think that the Thais would WANT the foreigner to enjoy and understand these places without the lingering aftertaste of being "taken" at the front gate.

And by the way, even if Thais in general are not as wealthy as foreigners, the difference in price in many venues would not break a Thai visitor's bank account. Any Thai can pay 10 baht or 50 baht for an entry; no Thai would go to a place and see that the fare was 50 baht and not 10 baht and say, "Oh, well....can't afford that. Let's go home."

It's profiteering, plain and simple. And profiteering based on race. Draw your own conclusions.

50 bt is a days' wages or a days disposable income for many Thais. Would you not balk at paying $300 rather than $50 to get into a national park or church wherever you come from?

Many of the openly duel priced places are places Thais use many times, visitors only once. They get a natural frequent user discount. And before you say "I'm a visa holder and should get the Thai price", to Thais you are and always will be a visitor....You can and are welcome to go home anytime you choose...

[PattayaPhom]

With all these half half kids running around with Thai Nationality.....wonder what they will have to pay...maybe a third extra

[JusMe]

You are almost correct - but it is based on averages. Not the wealthiest or the poorest.

The average Foreigner in Thailand is MUCH more wealthy than your average Thai. Sorry - but is a fact.

But I'm not an average. I'm an individual. Averages are fine for statistics, but completely irrelevant when we speak about specifics.

And I guarantee that I have much less wealth than Yingluck, but she gets the special price whereas I have to pay the higher racially discriminatory price.

[limbos]

How many times have you heard visitors say " It's so cheap " ? To the average tourist here for the first time, they don't care.

I agree that Thailand is cheaper than the West, but the point here is that in certain places, foreigners have their faces rubbed in it by being priced gouged.

The interesting question is this: Why these certain places? Why over-charge foreigners compared to Thais for things that might have cultural significance.

At temples or museums you'd think that the Thais would WANT the foreigner to enjoy and understand these places without the lingering aftertaste of being "taken" at the front gate.

And by the way, even if Thais in general are not as wealthy as foreigners, the difference in price in many venues would not break a Thai visitor's bank account. Any Thai can pay 10 baht or 50 baht for an entry; no Thai would go to a place and see that the fare was 50 baht and not 10 baht and say, "Oh, well....can't afford that. Let's go home."

It's profiteering, plain and simple. And profiteering based on race. Draw your own conclusions.

50 bt is a days' wages or a days disposable income for many Thais. Would you not balk at paying $300 rather than $50 to get into a national park or church wherever you come from?

Many of the openly duel priced places are places Thais use many times, visitors only once. They get a natural frequent user discount. And before you say "I'm a visa holder and should get the Thai price", to Thais you are and always will be a visitor....You can and are welcome to go home anytime you choose...

What is it with all these folk that say we can go home anytime we choose. I am home, as already stated by other posters as well. There are ups and downs in Thailand but since 13 years I do consider this home. If I would go back to my country of birth, i would be in for a bit of a shock, let alone that I couldn't bring my wife along, even if I wanted to do so, but that's a whole different discussion.

Do I see a trend that usually posters with a very low post count make these kind of statements? To me this sounds like a last resort statement since you ran out of arguments.

Edited January 11, 2012 by limbos

[necronx99]

How many times have you heard visitors say " It's so cheap " ? To the average tourist here for the first time, they don't care.

I agree that Thailand is cheaper than the West, but the point here is that in certain places, foreigners have their faces rubbed in it by being priced gouged.

The interesting question is this: Why these certain places? Why over-charge foreigners compared to Thais for things that might have cultural significance.

At temples or museums you'd think that the Thais would WANT the foreigner to enjoy and understand these places without the lingering aftertaste of being "taken" at the front gate.

And by the way, even if Thais in general are not as wealthy as foreigners, the difference in price in many venues would not break a Thai visitor's bank account. Any Thai can pay 10 baht or 50 baht for an entry; no Thai would go to a place and see that the fare was 50 baht and not 10 baht and say, "Oh, well....can't afford that. Let's go home."

It's profiteering, plain and simple. And profiteering based on race. Draw your own conclusions.

50 bt is a days' wages or a days disposable income for many Thais. Would you not balk at paying $300 rather than $50 to get into a national park or church wherever you come from?

Many of the openly duel priced places are places Thais use many times, visitors only once. They get a natural frequent user discount. And before you say "I'm a visa holder and should get the Thai price", to Thais you are and always will be a visitor....You can and are welcome to go home anytime you choose...

What is it with all these folk that say we can go home anytime we choose. I am home, as already stated by other posters as well. There are ups and downs in Thailand but since 13 years I do consider this home. If I would go back to my country of birth, i would be in for a bit of a shock, let alone that I couldn't bring my wife along, even if I wanted to do so, but that's a whole different discussion.

Do I see a trend that usually posters with a very low post count make these kind of statements? To me this sounds like a last resort statement since you ran out of arguments.

Where's home if your next visa renewal is rejected? With all due deference to your 1586 posts, thinking of somewhere where you have limited to no unequivocal rights to stay permanently as "home" is just a little naive. Unless you are a citizen you are a guest.

Edited January 11, 2012 by necronx99

[PoorSucker]

Not quite correct there necron. I have a British passport , but I am resident in Thailand. I have not lived in Britain since 1993.

Your permanent residency book does not get you discount?

[limbos]

In response to Necronx99 post;

"Where's home if your next visa renewal is rejected? With all due deference to your 1586 posts, thinking of somewhere where you have limited to no unequivocal rights to stay permanently as "home" is just a little naive. Unless you are a citizen you are a guest. "

That would most certainly not be a nice situation, if that situation ever would occur. Still, this is home for me and many others like me, whether you like it or not.

I was referring to your post count since in this same thread another poster with just two posts to his name also mentioned that if anybody didn't like it here, he could go home. In my opinion this is a non-argument. There are plenty of things I don't like in the country I was born in. Almost half of my life I have lived outside of the country that I was born in.

As a guest I'm happy here and I agree that having limited to no unequivocal rights to stay permanently is not great. It's one of the things I'm not too excited about in this country but it still outweighs plenty of other things that i do like here.

Edited January 11, 2012 by limbos

[Tropicalevo]

Where's home if your next visa renewal is rejected? With all due deference to your 1586 posts, thinking of somewhere where you have limited to no unequivocal rights to stay permanently as "home" is just a little naive. Unless you are a citizen you are a guest.

Strange - I thought that this was true of almost all countries. Not just Thailand. It is the risk that we take when we live in another country.

Even with residency (which is possible in Thailand), in a lot of 'first world countries' one can still be deported under the right circumstances.

Yet - a lot of people still manage to call another country home? Still, I am sure that you are right and the rest of us living here are wrong.

[necronx99]

In response to Necronx99 post;

"Where's home if your next visa renewal is rejected? With all due deference to your 1586 posts, thinking of somewhere where you have limited to no unequivocal rights to stay permanently as "home" is just a little naive. Unless you are a citizen you are a guest. "

That would most certainly not be a nice situation, if that situation ever would occur. Still, this is home for me and many others like me, whether you like it or not.

I was referring to your post count since in this same thread another poster with just two posts to his name also mentioned that if anybody didn't like it here, he could go home. In my opinion this is a non-argument. There are plenty of things I don't like in the country I was born in. Almost half of my life I have lived outside of the country that I was born in.

As a guest I'm happy here and I agree that having limited to no unequivocal rights to stay permanently is not great. It's one of the things I'm not too excited about in this country but it still outweighs plenty of other things that i do like here.

It's not a matter of whether I like it, or you, for that matter. I have been before and will shortly be in the same boat once more.

But complaining about the double standards is just silly, even with it we are still way ahead of the curve and way ahead of most Thais.

[limbos]

Two tier pricing is as old as the oldest profession in the world, I guess. Still doesn't make it right though. Especially since here in Thailand it's rather based on race than some well thought out program which for instance, would benefit residents.

We may be way ahead of the curve, in average. However the very small top tier in Thailand can easily compete with the world's richest. A far cry from where I'm at, at this moment. I would also think that the difference between rich and poor, in let's say Europe, is not as wide as here in Thailand.

[Birdman]

........................, thinking of somewhere where you have limited to no unequivocal rights to stay permanently as "home" is just a little naive. Unless you are a citizen you are a guest.

i live and work in Thailand half my life, mostly on Samui and I never cared about the visa situation, just did everything very easily according to the rules and I never had problems with that and I never asked myself is it my home, am I a guest, who am I in Thailand, what can happen, what if...? All that simply does not exist for me. I just continue to live and work here and enjoy this place. If one day it should not be so, I can go easily. Home is where the heart is.

Double pricing? Can't remember when I had the last dp-situation. A few years ago I ordered at a restaurant with 2 prices on the same menu. One written in Thai and in front one written in English. So I ordered in Thai according to the Thai part and paid that without any questions asked at all.

If someone is not in the position to do so, can't handle the situation easily by word, no resident card, no Thai driving license, no Thai social security card, Thai tax papers, no local help or whatever, then you have the choice not to use that service. That is free will and no one will be angry about that.

[Gulfsailor]

You need to make the difference between companies that have a two tier pricing structure and government funded places that charge more to foreigners than to locals.

If a shop asks more money from a foreigner, then that is plain dumb, and you can just walk away from it and find another shop that doesn't do this.

But if you want to visit a national park or zoo,and they charge then it is not so easy to go to a different park or zoo. But one needs to understand that these parks, zoos and such are not self sufficient entities that rely solely on admission income. The Dept of National Parks has approximately 6,000 officials, another 6,000 full time staff and some 20,000 temporary day workers in its employ. The department consumes an annual state budget of a stable Bt8.2billion. That is taxpayer money. So Thai people already pay for visiting parks, regardless if they visit or not. At the same time, if a foreigner is employed in Thailand and pays his taxes, then he also helps pay for the parks. As such I completely understand why one would charge a foreigner more, providing the tax paying foreigner is exempted. And that is exactly my experience in nearly all national parks that I visited. When I show my drivinglicense and sometimes tax id card, I get charged the lower Thai price.