Pump Running Times

[WarpSpeed]

Now you're calling me obtuse?? I think that word is over your head, how's that for irony? You're the epitome of obtuse with a singles pool experience and still touting 1940's technology and just because others may use them doesn't mean they are of any better qualifications either there's a thousand reasons, much of which are due to lack of exposure to new technologies and locations that don't require new technological updates..

Anyway I'll continue to give occasional advice to those others that have appreciated it and counter your rubbish explanations without debating you on it and let them decide who's providing them better and more updated solutions to their pool problems..

Well I am still waiting for a logical argument as to why you think bag filters don't work and I can I am not going to get it. You are just going keep on trying and impress everyone with you "years of experience", which has led you where? To advise people to dissolve the soles of their feet in acid or bleach to avoid slipping over and that old algae, pea soup density, pool water is perfectly safe place to be. Well maybe there are a few folks who have faith in that sort of "expert" advice, but not me, I think it is 100% obtuse. Ask Richard Wakeman, professor of Chemical Engineering, Specialising in Water Treatment, Loughborough University, England, which is where I get some of my advice.

I am really not interested in "Technology" for technology's sake. I still hang my clothes out on the line to dry in Thailand.... why?..it works well, just like bag filters, waste your money on tumble drying if you like.

Please let us return to the subject matter, I would like to work this out and know there are some smart people out there with views and open minds. I have talked to a few people via email and two guys in Khon Kaen, who run broadly similar times to me and wonder why the huge discrepancies. 1 hour versus 6+ hours.

It may result in some readers saving a bit of money, which can't be bad at this time.

I already told you I'm not wasting anymore time with you, search around for other pool threads I've posted advice on and see who the obtuse one is here.. I don't waste any time with people who refer to me as obtuse.. Not worthy of my time or effort...

So we can take that as a no then, you don't have an answer?

With regard to the "obtuse" comment, that was in answer to some ill thought out advice you were giving, that was potentially highly dangerous. Wading in acid and bleach was quite obviously so, even comical, but referring to old algae as perfectly safe was perhaps not. So for those people inclined to believe that piece of "expert advice" I will give you some idea of what the dangers could be.

Pool water with that amount of algae in it is there because of insufficient sanitation, meaning it is dirty, so there will be other things growing there too and the level of chlorine will be low, or zero. Therefore the kind of things we are talking about are (and these are only the potentially lethal ones) bacteria such as Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa and parasites such as Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamlia and E-coli. These organisms are found in pools around the world, in the tropics they proliferate very quickly and feed on the things found in dirty water.

So to call your comments "obtuse" is perhaps a gross understatement.

So you think prodding me and further insults to get me to answer you is gonna work do you? Nanny nanny poo poo and all that like a pre-pubescent teenager?? You're a simpleton with 0 respect so why should I waste my time, in this case a good analogy would be you being in 7th or 8th grade (giving you the benefit) and calling a college professor of 25 years experience who's considered an expert in their field, obtuse.. You're way out of my league so no reason to respond just as no one would in that case either.. They'd just walk away like I'm doing and THAT's what really grates on you the most....

[AllanB]

I agree with much of what Naam says, but wouldn't dream of using a tumble dryer when I have one outside, called a carport, sure there some people who have "loads-a-money" but other who's surname begins with "Mc".

There are some ways of designing "cleanliness" into the pool construction itself, I have already mentioned a roof and filtration system, but my pool is an oblong "infinity" design with the water feeding from the far end. So the surface of the pool is cleaned very efficiently in a few minutes and the jets create turbulence throughout most of the pool to exchange the surface water too. The exit velocity of an infinity pool is much greater than an overflow pool, so cleaning in much more thorough. Being oblong reduces the number of dead spots, where water can be stagnant and allow things to grow. Then I have the pool cleaner, mentioned in another thread which cleans the rest.

Now I appreciate that a pool should be a thing of beauty and some people like the look of an intricate shaped pool with plants and stuff growing all around it, an overflow pool with dirty water washing into it. But others may share my values of efficiency and just want a clean place to swim, many would consider infinity pools stylish anyway.

As an engineer I think beauty and efficiency go hand in hand and so my person wealth is not an issue here, I just like things to work well and make my choices on that basis.

Those thinking about building a pool may wish to consider these factors.

[Naam]

And that's why as a general rule the run times are what they are... Fail safe and simple stupid..................................For some anyways..

but that does not explain the difference in "behaviour" of my Thai pool (never had any problems with much lower CL ppm and lower pump running times) and my Florida pool. any ideas Warp? for me it's an enigma.

[Naam]

The exit velocity of an infinity pool is much greater than an overflow pool, so cleaning in much more thorough

please explain the difference. i have no idea what you are talking about.

[Naam]

would any kind hearted moderator please merge these two threads?

[AllanB]

The exit velocity of an infinity pool is much greater than an overflow pool, so cleaning in much more thorough

please explain the difference. i have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a pool which measures 8m x 4m which, being an infinity pool, drains from from the 4 metre end, the same size overflow pool would drain over it's entire perimeter of more that 24 metres. Therefore the exit velocity is more than 6 times greater in my pool, than an overflow pool, for a given pump flow-rate.

[WarpSpeed]

And that's why as a general rule the run times are what they are... Fail safe and simple stupid..................................For some anyways..

but that does not explain the difference in "behaviour" of my Thai pool (never had any problems with much lower CL ppm and lower pump running times) and my Florida pool. any ideas Warp? for me it's an enigma.

Yes, mostly speculating due to limited info. so don't lambaste me for my ideas but different water make up, different minerals, higher dissolved solids, higher Ca levels from natural sources which means harder water versus softer, and higher PH rain though that last one doesn't effect you much in your case directly it does through the city water as the water back there is not acid rain as many locations, on the contrary it's very basic where here it is always low Ph and virtually no T/A...

I also can't speak to your ACTUAL use then versus now between the 2 or many other habits that can have effects on Cl2 usage and run times.. I can tell you it's hotter back there due to higher humidity as here even in the summer the humidity is only around 85% where back there it will often achieve100%...

[Naam]

The exit velocity of an infinity pool is much greater than an overflow pool, so cleaning in much more thorough

please explain the difference. i have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a pool which measures 8m x 4m which, being an infinity pool, drains from from the 4 metre end, the same size overflow pool would drain over it's entire perimeter of more that 24 metres. Therefore the exit velocity is more than 6 times greater in my pool, than an overflow pool, for a given pump flow-rate.

don't know how you arrived at that assumption. my overflow pool drains, like all the others i have seen, exactly like yours at the opposite end of the jet inlets because that end is ~1.5-2cm lower which bothers my aesthetic feeling

but for both of our pools that applies to the surface water only. when the pool was built i assumed it will drain to all sides (which i would have preferred) because, as opposed to your claim, that is the fastest way to clear the surface from any floating insect or debris especially when only the bottom jets are open.

in my case it does not really matter because there's never any debris. important for me is that both top and bottom jets are open because that secures an even distribution of filtered and sanitised water.

talking about sanitation... one can go overboard (i did) and install a UV-sanitiser. not cheap, but extremely efficient in killing bacteria.

[Naam]

The exit velocity of an infinity pool is much greater than an overflow pool, so cleaning in much more thorough

please explain the difference. i have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a pool which measures 8m x 4m which, being an infinity pool, drains from from the 4 metre end, the same size overflow pool would drain over it's entire perimeter of more that 24 metres. Therefore the exit velocity is more than 6 times greater in my pool, than an overflow pool, for a given pump flow-rate.

i can't help it to bitch a bit Allan as i already mentioned the exit velocity applies only to the surface water which (i think) is completely irrelevant if there is non-floating debris. total volume and total exit velocity is identical for a given pump flow-rate.

[WarpSpeed]

The exit velocity of an infinity pool is much greater than an overflow pool, so cleaning in much more thorough

please explain the difference. i have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a pool which measures 8m x 4m which, being an infinity pool, drains from from the 4 metre end, the same size overflow pool would drain over it's entire perimeter of more that 24 metres. Therefore the exit velocity is more than 6 times greater in my pool, than an overflow pool, for a given pump flow-rate.

don't know how you arrived at that assumption. my overflow pool drains, like all the others i have seen, exactly like yours at the opposite end of the jet inlets because that end is ~1.5-2cm lower which bothers my aesthetic feeling

but for both of our pools that applies to the surface water only. when the pool was built i assumed it will drain to all sides (which i would have preferred) because, as opposed to your claim, that is the fastest way to clear the surface from any floating insect or debris especially when only the bottom jets are open.

in my case it does not really matter because there's never any debris. important for me is that both top and bottom jets are open because that secures an even distribution of filtered and sanitised water.

talking about sanitation... one can go overboard (i did) and install a UV-sanitiser. not cheap, but extremely efficient in killing bacteria.

Did you have this in Florida??

[Naam]

Did you have this in Florida??

no, i did not. but before i installed the UV-unit (which initially was used for 3 years for my koi pond) i realised the "discrepancies" between Thai and Florida pool. but i think i found what could have caused the different "behaviour" of the Florida pool. Central Florida's winter had quite a number of real cold nights and regularly 8-10 nights where temperatures dropped to freezing or below freezing point. to maintain a comfortable water temperature for the Mrs to do her daily 200 lengths i used 90m² of solar panels (see picture below) to heat up the water to 32-33ºC during the day to achieve 28ºC water temperature in the morning. the high water temperature, even though only for 8-12 hours must have been ideal for the development of mustard and green algae. another negative factor could have been that the pool in Florida was on one side screened and not, like the Thai pool, enclosed with UV reflecting mirror glas.

all that is of course my layman's assumption.

[WarpSpeed]

Did you have this in Florida??

no, i did not. but before i installed the UV-unit (which initially was used for 3 years for my koi pond) i realised the "discrepancies" between Thai and Florida pool. but i think i found what could have caused the different "behaviour" of the Florida pool. Central Florida's winter had quite a number of real cold nights and regularly 8-10 nights where temperatures dropped to freezing or below freezing point. to maintain a comfortable water temperature for the Mrs to do her daily 200 lengths i used 90m² of solar panels (see picture below) to heat up the water to 32-33ºC during the day to achieve 28ºC water temperature in the morning. the high water temperature, even though only for 8-12 hours must have been ideal for the development of mustard and green algae. another negative factor could have been that the pool in Florida was on one side screened and not, like the Thai pool, enclosed with UV reflecting mirror glas.

all that is of course my layman's assumption.

Funny you mentioned this as I was thinking about it last night and it is certainly possible plus the fact that the temps do have very wide ranges and the algae develops a much better resistance and develops a more aggressive "dormant" and "growing" season like other plants so it takes off come spring time in spite of Cl2 levels but actually that is also when you should be refreshing stabilizer levels for the upcoming summer so Cl2 levels and stabilizer are at their weakest points simultaneously and yes pool heating does strongly contribute as well..

Just like with so many things it's not just a singular, large, identifiable component but numerous smaller ones so if you couple all of these smaller factors together they cause a "perfect storm" condition for algae growth..

The last factor you mentioned as I mentioned in my first post is definitely a strong factor, this pool is completely enclosed and mostly UV protected as the Florida pool was not, that's what I meant by not enough info. this is the primary catalyst coupled with all the other smaller ones it's the fires fuel...

[AllanB]

The exit velocity of an infinity pool is much greater than an overflow pool, so cleaning in much more thorough

please explain the difference. i have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a pool which measures 8m x 4m which, being an infinity pool, drains from from the 4 metre end, the same size overflow pool would drain over it's entire perimeter of more that 24 metres. Therefore the exit velocity is more than 6 times greater in my pool, than an overflow pool, for a given pump flow-rate.

i can't help it to bitch a bit Allan as i already mentioned the exit velocity applies only to the surface water which (i think) is completely irrelevant if there is non-floating debris. total volume and total exit velocity is identical for a given pump flow-rate.

Not so, dirt suspended in water will find it's way to the surface, both by turbulence, water currents and by it's changing SG. Otherwise there would be no pint in having an overflow trough or skimmer and all the dirt would simply remain in the middle of the pool. Also there is a suction effect caused by the water flow across a weir and the faster the weir flow the greater that suction effect.

The second point is stagnant water, which promotes organic propagation, especially algae, the enemy here. Pump a column of water in one end and straight out the other and you reduce the possibility of such areas.The ideal pool shape would be a tube shape, but failing that an end-to-end Infinity design with a fast flowing weir to drag the mixture out. This leaves only two small areas where there is any possibility of poor flow and these are the areas where I leave my vacuum running for while. As a local pumping system with it's own 1 micron filter.

When my pump is running it takes about 30 seconds for a ball to travel from one end of the pool to the other and for the surface dirt to do the same time, but out of the pool instead. This means there are fairly strong currents involved, the enemy of algae.

Total flow is not the important factor here, if the water going out isn't the dirty water you wish to remove. Just drawing the same water through the pump is a waste of time and money and maybe explains the difference in pump running times.

The theory behind my efficiency measures is that if you remove the conditions where algae can propagate you won't get an algae problem in the first place. All the features of my pool design are tailored to meet that theory and not just to wind people up.

Maybe I lack the years in the pool business and in some ways that is a good thing, but I am a qualified design engineer with a wealth of experience in process control systems to bring to the party.

I know you guys have had this forum to yourselves for a while and have gear to shift, but a little open mindedness wouldn't go amiss.

[WarpSpeed]

but a little open mindedness wouldn't go amiss.

Now THAT, we agree on..

[Naam]

Total flow is not the important factor here, if the water going out isn't the dirty water you wish to remove. Just drawing the same water through the pump is a waste of time and money and maybe explains the difference in pump running times.

but that's exactly what you are doing with the emphasis on "ball 30 seconds surface water". to filter the total volume evenly it is in my opinion (i'm only a dumb physicist cum mechanical engineer) important to use not only overflow and top jets but also bottom jets and bottom drain. when my pool builder suggested "no need for a bottom drain" i asked him "how much Mekong before today's breakfast?"

[WarpSpeed]

Total flow is not the important factor here, if the water going out isn't the dirty water you wish to remove. Just drawing the same water through the pump is a waste of time and money and maybe explains the difference in pump running times.

but that's exactly what you are doing with the emphasis on "ball 30 seconds surface water". to filter the total volume evenly it is in my opinion (i'm only a dumb physicist cum mechanical engineer) important to use not only overflow and top jets but also bottom jets and bottom drain. when my pool builder suggested "no need for a bottom drain" i asked him "how much Mekong before today's breakfast?"

I'm sure you meant "scum" physicist right???

Yes Naam spot on must have a functioning bottom drain and it being used not just for draining the pool or looks, that's not often applied here..

[Naam]

Total flow is not the important factor here, if the water going out isn't the dirty water you wish to remove. Just drawing the same water through the pump is a waste of time and money and maybe explains the difference in pump running times.

but that's exactly what you are doing with the emphasis on "ball 30 seconds surface water". to filter the total volume evenly it is in my opinion (i'm only a dumb physicist cum mechanical engineer) important to use not only overflow and top jets but also bottom jets and bottom drain. when my pool builder suggested "no need for a bottom drain" i asked him "how much Mekong before today's breakfast?"

1. I'm sure you meant "scum" physicist right???

2. Yes Naam spot on must have a functioning bottom drain and it being used not just for draining the pool or looks, that's not often applied here..

1. there was a time in my professional career when that applied. but a certain "happening" on june 7, 1981 put me on the right path again.

2. pool contractor quote in 2005: "we have built more than a hundred pools without bottom drain."

[Valentine]

Total flow is not the important factor here, if the water going out isn't the dirty water you wish to remove. Just drawing the same water through the pump is a waste of time and money and maybe explains the difference in pump running times.

but that's exactly what you are doing with the emphasis on "ball 30 seconds surface water". to filter the total volume evenly it is in my opinion (i'm only a dumb physicist cum mechanical engineer) important to use not only overflow and top jets but also bottom jets and bottom drain. when my pool builder suggested "no need for a bottom drain" i asked him "how much Mekong before today's breakfast?"

1. I'm sure you meant "scum" physicist right???

2. Yes Naam spot on must have a functioning bottom drain and it being used not just for draining the pool or looks, that's not often applied here..

1. there was a time in my professional career when that applied. but a certain "happening" on june 7, 1981 put me on the right path again.

2. pool contractor quote in 2005: "we have built more than a hundred pools without bottom drain."

With a skimmer box pool I always have both the main drain & the skimmer open to the pump just in case someone forgets to top up the pool. If the water drops below the skimmer then at the pump will at least get some water from the main drain line & prevent it from overheating too much.

[WarpSpeed]

but that's exactly what you are doing with the emphasis on "ball 30 seconds surface water". to filter the total volume evenly it is in my opinion (i'm only a dumb physicist cum mechanical engineer) important to use not only overflow and top jets but also bottom jets and bottom drain. when my pool builder suggested "no need for a bottom drain" i asked him "how much Mekong before today's breakfast?"

1. I'm sure you meant "scum" physicist right???

2. Yes Naam spot on must have a functioning bottom drain and it being used not just for draining the pool or looks, that's not often applied here..

1. there was a time in my professional career when that applied. but a certain "happening" on june 7, 1981 put me on the right path again.

2. pool contractor quote in 2005: "we have built more than a hundred pools without bottom drain."

With a skimmer box pool I always have both the main drain & the skimmer open to the pump just in case someone forgets to top up the pool. If the water drops below the skimmer then at the pump will at least get some water from the main drain line & prevent it from overheating too much.

Yep.... And if done properly from new there should be a float valve in the skimmer and/or at minimum an equalizer line plumbed into the bottom of the skimmer to allow water in and prevent pump damage... An automatic water level control would be the best addition..... But I'm really too "obtuse" to know what you're speaking of....

[klikster]

Pool water with that amount of algae in it is there because of insufficient sanitation, meaning it is dirty, so there will be other things growing there too and the level of chlorine will be low, or zero. Therefore the kind of things we are talking about are (and these are only the potentially lethal ones) bacteria such as Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa and parasites such as Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamlia and E-coli. These organisms are found in pools around the world, in the tropics they proliferate very quickly and feed on the things found in dirty water.

I remember some of these same critters being talked about in an infamous 'filtration' thread a while back. I'm wondering if the author of that post -- the peddler who claimed the effectiveness of magnetic pulse technology for water filtration -- has reinvented himself, and got a new smoke generator to go with his mirrors.

[WarpSpeed]

Pool water with that amount of algae in it is there because of insufficient sanitation, meaning it is dirty, so there will be other things growing there too and the level of chlorine will be low, or zero. Therefore the kind of things we are talking about are (and these are only the potentially lethal ones) bacteria such as Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa and parasites such as Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamlia and E-coli. These organisms are found in pools around the world, in the tropics they proliferate very quickly and feed on the things found in dirty water.

I remember some of these same critters being talked about in an infamous 'filtration' thread a while back. I'm wondering if the author of that post -- the peddler who claimed the effectiveness of magnetic pulse technology for water filtration -- has reinvented himself, and got a new smoke generator to go with his mirrors.

[AllanB]

Pool water with that amount of algae in it is there because of insufficient sanitation, meaning it is dirty, so there will be other things growing there too and the level of chlorine will be low, or zero. Therefore the kind of things we are talking about are (and these are only the potentially lethal ones) bacteria such as Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa and parasites such as Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamlia and E-coli. These organisms are found in pools around the world, in the tropics they proliferate very quickly and feed on the things found in dirty water.

I remember some of these same critters being talked about in an infamous 'filtration' thread a while back. I'm wondering if the author of that post -- the peddler who claimed the effectiveness of magnetic pulse technology for water filtration -- has reinvented himself, and got a new smoke generator to go with his mirrors.

Sounds good confusing me with someone else, but these "critters" as you put it, are what you have to deal with, they are the proper names of these "critters" in your pool water. Education can useful sometimes.

But getting back to the original subject matter, three months in I am still running my pump for an hour a day, spending and hour a week cleaning, getting through about 1 tablet a week = 2-3ppm, water temperature low, a small amount of water loss and still the water is pristine, chemistry spot on. The walls are completely slime free, with nothing in the trough either, so everything going to plan and easy to monitor.

One thing I didn't mention is that I used a very pale blue tile, which shows up every speck of dirt, or the minutest tinge of green, so when it is clean you can see. Not to everyone's taste, but this is all about efficiency and clean water.

[AllanB]

Jan-Feb Costs

1. I just got my electricity bill, the first since I stopped messing around and what a pleasant surprise, only an extra 0.8 units a day = 3baht for pump and lights.

2. Daily water losses equate to about 2mm, covering a lower than usual level of evaporation, which could have been up to 8mm without the roof = 1baht

3. I bought a box of chlorine tablets 10 days after I filled the pool, which cost 3,600baht and 24% is used up in 75 days, so that = 11.50baht day keeping the level at between 2-3ppm.

So my pool is costing about 15baht/day in total to run and keep pristine, add to that 1 hours labour per week for cleaning and a current water temperature of a cool 28c, I am more than happy.

Apart from a time switch, there are no automatic systems on my pool and I see no need for them, I vacuum the pool one a week, wash out the bag filter, add a new tablet and all that can be done in 1hour or less. As a result there is nothing to maintain or worry about, just check 4 parameters every few days and enjoy a cool swim.

[klikster]

Pool water with that amount of algae in it is there because of insufficient sanitation, meaning it is dirty, so there will be other things growing there too and the level of chlorine will be low, or zero. Therefore the kind of things we are talking about are (and these are only the potentially lethal ones) bacteria such as Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa and parasites such as Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamlia and E-coli. These organisms are found in pools around the world, in the tropics they proliferate very quickly and feed on the things found in dirty water.

I remember some of these same critters being talked about in an infamous 'filtration' thread a while back. I'm wondering if the author of that post -- the peddler who claimed the effectiveness of magnetic pulse technology for water filtration -- has reinvented himself, and got a new smoke generator to go with his mirrors.

Sounds good confusing me with someone else, but these "critters" as you put it, are what you have to deal with, they are the proper names of these "critters" in your pool water. Education can useful sometimes.

Yes indeed! I did confuse you with another, the one who touts magnetic pulse technology for water treatment. So for my oblique suggestion, I apologize.

As far as my education, I have some -- not nearly enough -- and will continue to learn from folks who really know what they are talking about. You see, I have some experience in water 'filtration', having been an industrial sales rep for one of the earliest manufacturers of RO. I called on lots of facilities engineers who had visits from peddlers touting all sorts of magical and unique cures for removing dissolved solids and biologicals. Saw many companies burned by quick fixes.

BUT -- getting back to your original claims -- still emblazoned in bold type above -- your are partly correct in you descriptions, also partly wrong.

Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa are, according to Wikipedia, bacteria .. congratulations

However

Escherichia coli is not a parasite, but a Gram-negative, rod-shaped bacterium that is commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded organisms (endotherms).

So maybe before you decide to challenge my education, you might want to do a a bit more reading

BTW, a trusted resource for water-borne "critters" http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pdf/100067.pdf

Cheers!

edit: fixed quotes

[Naam]

and if one has a reasonable amount of "critters" in the pool one puts up a sign "Critter Zoo" and collects entry fees.

nota bene: Farangs pay double!

[AllanB]

Yes indeed! I did confuse you with another, the one who touts magnetic pulse technology for water treatment. So for my oblique suggestion, I apologize.

As far as my education, I have some -- not nearly enough -- and will continue to learn from folks who really know what they are talking about. You see, I have some experience in water 'filtration', having been an industrial sales rep for one of the earliest manufacturers of RO. I called on lots of facilities engineers who had visits from peddlers touting all sorts of magical and unique cures for removing dissolved solids and biologicals. Saw many companies burned by quick fixes.

BUT -- getting back to your original claims -- still emblazoned in bold type above -- your are partly correct in you descriptions, also partly wrong.

Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa are, according to Wikipedia, bacteria .. congratulations

However

Escherichia coli is not a parasite, but a Gram-negative, rod-shaped bacterium that is commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded organisms (endotherms).

So maybe before you decide to challenge my education, you might want to do a a bit more reading

BTW, a trusted resource for water-borne "critters" http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pdf/100067.pdf

Cheers!

edit: fixed quotes

I accept you apology and also submit a correction of my own, I should, as you pointed out, have included E.Coli under the heading of Bacterium, instead of parasites. Perhaps by us highlighting these issues many more people are now aware of what exactly they are dealing with in their pools.

I do not feel I have any association whatsoever with the conmen you describe.

1. I am not selling anything and have nothing to gain.

2. I put forward in detail my reasons for the choices I make, with nothing that could be construed as misleading, save for the odd error, now corrected.

3. The filters I use have no magic properties they are merely made from a material, which due to weave design, has a particular pore size and stops everything that is larger in size.The material used is highly suitable for use with chlorinated water. Bag filters are already used extensively in this and other industries and in my view, are superior in almost every way to the much more expensive and complicated sand filter, currently being sold here.

<SNIP>

[craigt3365]

OK, let's be civil. A post has been removed and a post has been edited. Please abide by forum rules and show some respect to other members.