2012 Honda Cbr 600F

[BigBikeBKK]

Yeah, I don't know where all this nonsense about a new CBR400 is coming from.

The only major market in the world where there is a niche for 400 cc is Japan, but bike sales remain dismal in the Land of the Rising Sun.

I'd love to be wrong, but I think the chances of Honda investing in the R&D to produce a new 400cc bike are slim to none considering there's almost no market for it.

Kawasaki is making the ER4n here in Thailand for export primarily to Japan, but that's a no-brainer as all they do is sleeve down the 650 engine on the assembly line that's already running here in Rayong.

Ride On!

Tony

[Kwasaki]

I cant wait to see it in our local dealers. I don't think Honda is going to make the price tag over 300k baht I'm hopping to see it at the 240K baht

made in Thailand by Honda the price seems very reasonable.

240K !! More like no hope or Bob Hope.

Dear god, please let that bike be priced high, lets say 400,000B.

If it's Under 350,000B i'm going to hang myself for just buying a 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 650...........

No worries about that, you wouldn't have any trouble in selling your bike anyway if you wanted to.

_{This ( hopefully real ) offering from Honda is far more exciting the lateset 'yawn' of little bikes that are available.}

_{I also would like to see an in-line four in it, not an agricultural power plant.}

Or some more triple at a lower price would be nice but I doubt it, the reason for Honda's sales is typically because there singles 150 & 250 end of speculation.

[Kwasaki]

As much as i'd like a bigger bike, i think i would rather spend the money on a boring car or pickup to have some chance of staying alive!!

It is a good point that you make, if there are more choices of bigger bikes then it will create more interest and possibly more sales.

I sold my big bike (Harley) and will properly never buy a big bike again for the same reason. I got kids now and they come first any day but I have fond memories of the trips up North on it

My next bike will very likely be the mighty 150cc PCX, he-he.

When we go North nowadays its in the boring tin can car, sadly.

Having kids means you can't ride anymore? That's a bit sad...

My older son loves to go on tours and attend track events. We usually tour in large groups with support vehicles so the risk is really quite small.

Good times!

T

+1

[blackpanda]

Maybe the sales of a 600cc-1000cc may not be high for users in Thailand but the demand for the bike are out there in other countries. And Honda should be able to sell some bikes here and also import others.

[dave_boo]

Maybe the sales of a 600cc-1000cc may not be high for users in Thailand but the demand for the bike are out there in other countries. And Honda should be able to sell some bikes here and also import others.

If they do that, expect Yamaha/Suzuki pricing; you won't be able to pick a Honda bike up for the fantastic (for LOS) price that Kawasaki offers their bikes at.

[Kwasaki]

Maybe the sales of a 600cc-1000cc may not be high for users in Thailand but the demand for the bike are out there in other countries. And Honda should be able to sell some bikes here and also import others.

If they do that, expect Yamaha/Suzuki pricing; you won't be able to pick a Honda bike up for the fantastic (for LOS) price that Kawasaki offers their bikes at.

Probably been posted before but It said today's date. http://www.motorcycl...ycle_Price_List and everything else you can buy in Thailand.

Z1000 595,000.

people going on about twin the VTR 250 is a twin at 144,000.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Kwasaki

[scorpio1945]

Honda has already anounced a big wing program.

It would be good for Thailand, honda, and everyone around the world. APhonda will be able to finally supply us, the consumer with something different and affordable

That Big Wing has been mooted for years, i guess they stopped it due to the world economic downturn (or whatever name they call it now). APe Honda hasn't bother even updating the website for months.

If you look at the bike sales (registration?) figures released by the Thailand Dept of Land Transport for last year, you will see that bikes in the 150cc and over category account for only 0.5% of all the 2,001,044 bikes registered. That is, a total of 11,010 bikes over 150cc were registered (they don't break down the figures anymore for over 150cc). Considering that the CBR250 accounted for 5,426 of that 11,010 and then you can see it is a very, very small market. So basically about 400 scooters are sold for every 'big bike'. i don't know the mark up of a big bike but it certainly is not gonna make up for the profit gained from selling 400 scooters. Or the aggravation. And we wonder why they don't listen to farang banging on about big bikes!!

CBR150 9,327

CBR250 5,426

Kawasaki 3,548 over 150cc

Yamaha 130 over 150cc

Ducati 270

Harley 235

BMW 186

Suzuki 13 over 150cc

Triumph 112

Of the just over 2 millionf bikes registered in Thailand in 2011 around 1.3 million were Hondas in the 101-125cc division.

Great post and very interesting

[dave_boo]

Maybe the sales of a 600cc-1000cc may not be high for users in Thailand but the demand for the bike are out there in other countries. And Honda should be able to sell some bikes here and also import others.

If they do that, expect Yamaha/Suzuki pricing; you won't be able to pick a Honda bike up for the fantastic (for LOS) price that Kawasaki offers their bikes at.

Probably been posted before but It said today's date. http://www.motorcycl...ycle_Price_List and everything else you can buy in Thailand.

Z1000 595,000.

people going on about twin the VTR 250 is a twin at 144,000.

There are a lot of people on this forum who are critical of that website; I do not want to stir any crap so I will let you look it up. However, the VTR 250 has never been officially available; there was talk that it may be available but instead the CBR 250R was slotted.

Having said that, the VTR 250 was priced at 8490 AUD as of 2009; the CBR 250 is priced at 6000 AUD. I don't know if there are different import taxes for Japan vis a vis Thailand, but on the assumption there is not that means that the VTR would have to cost at least 140K THB in Thailand before import duties and taxes. I would guess that is where the 144K figure came from. Guessing that you could raise that by at least another 50% (meaning you're looking at a ~215K bike) and it just doesn't make sense^tm.

[blackpanda]

Maybe the sales of a 600cc-1000cc may not be high for users in Thailand but the demand for the bike are out there in other countries. And Honda should be able to sell some bikes here and also import others.

If they do that, expect Yamaha/Suzuki pricing; you won't be able to pick a Honda bike up for the fantastic (for LOS) price that Kawasaki offers their bikes at.

Probably been posted before but It said today's date. http://www.motorcycl...ycle_Price_List and everything else you can buy in Thailand.

Z1000 595,000.

people going on about twin the VTR 250 is a twin at 144,000.

on the website where is the CBF 250??

The list show the Honda CBR600RR. the 600RR should cost about 450K฿ The prices are for imported models.

the prices that i was thinking about where about the CBR600F.

okay well i guess we are just going to have to wait and see what happens.

What would your rather see a CBR600RR or a CBR600F?

Edited January 15, 2012 by blackpanda

[BigBikeBKK]

Maybe the sales of a 600cc-1000cc may not be high for users in Thailand but the demand for the bike are out there in other countries. And Honda should be able to sell some bikes here and also import others.

If they do that, expect Yamaha/Suzuki pricing; you won't be able to pick a Honda bike up for the fantastic (for LOS) price that Kawasaki offers their bikes at.

Probably been posted before but It said today's date. http://www.motorcycl...ycle_Price_List and everything else you can buy in Thailand.

Z1000 595,000.

people going on about twin the VTR 250 is a twin at 144,000.

on the website where is the CBF 250??

The list show the Honda CBR600RR. the 600RR should cost about 450K฿ The prices are for imported models.

the prices that i was thinking about where about the CBR600F.

okay well i guess we are just going to have to wait and see what happens.

What would your rather see a CBR600RR or a CBR600F?

That website is a bad joke. If you know where you can buy a new CBR600RR for 450k Baht in Thailand please let us know

[katabeachbum]

it will be made in Thailand

What makes you say that? Last I heard Honda has no plans to make anything more complex than singles in Thailand. I rather expect it will be quite some time (years) before Honda thinks about making inline fours here.

So, IF this bike is sold in Thailand it will be an import and I expect the price will be around 500k Baht.

as long as Honda AP is unable to meet domestic demand on singles, long ques for pcx and cbr250 thus dealer overcharging, and just introduced some new models, I cant see how they can fit in more models in existing TH manufactoring, at least this year.

For Honda AP to go big bike without having at least a BKK big bike showroom seems unlikely

[flying]

What would your rather see a CBR600RR or a CBR600F?

RR no question in my mind.....

[flying]

My older son loves to go on tours and attend track events. We usually tour in large groups with support vehicles so the risk is really quite small.

Cute pics

Congrats!

[Kwasaki]

My older son loves to go on tours and attend track events. We usually tour in large groups with support vehicles so the risk is really quite small.

Cute pics

Congrats!

BigBikeBKK, on Yesterday, 09:45 , said " My older son loves to go on tours and attend track events. We usually tour in large groups with support vehicles so the risk is really quite small."

That wasn't me is was BigBikeBKK I gave it a +1 because that's what I use to do with my son when I was younger, a great thing for fathers to do, my daughter liked to come along as well .

[Kwasaki]

Probably been posted before but It said today's date. http://www.motorcycl...ycle_Price_List and everything else you can buy in Thailand.

Z1000 595,000.

people going on about twin the VTR 250 is a twin at 144,000.

There are a lot of people on this forum who are critical of that website; I do not want to stir any crap so I will let you look it up. However, the VTR 250 has never been officially available; there was talk that it may be available but instead the CBR 250R was slotted.

Having said that, the VTR 250 was priced at 8490 AUD as of 2009; the CBR 250 is priced at 6000 AUD. I don't know if there are different import taxes for Japan vis a vis Thailand, but on the assumption there is not that means that the VTR would have to cost at least 140K THB in Thailand before import duties and taxes. I would guess that is where the 144K figure came from. Guessing that you could raise that by at least another 50% (meaning you're looking at a ~215K bike) and it just doesn't make sense^tm.

Thanks for info I was not aware of that but not surprised.

I use it to give myself a bit of a guide to motorbike model prices differences.

[Kwasaki]

Probably been posted before but It said today's date. http://www.motorcycl...ycle_Price_List and everything else you can buy in Thailand.

Z1000 595,000.

people going on about twin the VTR 250 is a twin at 144,000.

on the website where is the CBF 250??

The list show the Honda CBR600RR. the 600RR should cost about 450K฿ The prices are for imported models.

the prices that i was thinking about where about the CBR600F.

okay well i guess we are just going to have to wait and see what happens.

What would your rather see a CBR600RR or a CBR600F?

Right where is the CRF that's why I had a look at the site.

The " Versey " price is right thought isn't it. ??

Is there better sites or prices for real in Thailand or can they only be got from Thai dealers.

CBR6RR or 6F I really cannot see why they cannot be both sold in Thailand I guess it's just the Asian way.

In the UK there is something like a £1000 quid difference in price, personally I would only go for RR and had one once.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Kwasaki

[SumetCycle]

At the dealers meeeting, it was announced that the Big Wing Center would be opening in April of this year. They then displayed this graphic, which started all the speculation about the models that would be available.

[blackpanda]

What would your rather see a CBR600RR or a CBR600F?

RR no question in my mind.....

The rr by far looks better but the f seems more practical.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[katabeachbum]

Probably been posted before but It said today's date. http://www.motorcycl...ycle_Price_List and everything else you can buy in Thailand.

Z1000 595,000.

people going on about twin the VTR 250 is a twin at 144,000.

on the website where is the CBF 250??

The list show the Honda CBR600RR. the 600RR should cost about 450K฿ The prices are for imported models.

the prices that i was thinking about where about the CBR600F.

okay well i guess we are just going to have to wait and see what happens.

What would your rather see a CBR600RR or a CBR600F?

Right where is the CRF that's why I had a look at the site.

The " Versey " price is right thought isn't it. ??

Is there better sites or prices for real in Thailand or can they only be got from Thai dealers.

CBR6RR or 6F I really cannot see why they cannot be both sold in Thailand I guess it's just the Asian way.

In the UK there is something like a £1000 quid difference in price, personally I would only go for RR and had one once.

Total Th market is 1-2000 units a year as I recall, of which kwaker has 90% or so. imported honda at +450k baht wont stir this up much, and if it is imorted parts logistic is a mjor problem, just check with yammy or bmw how slow a repair is. so one of the two 600s for logistic reason

[dave_boo]

Total Th market is 1-2000 units a year as I recall, of which kwaker has 90% or so. imported honda at +450k baht wont stir this up much, and if it is imorted parts logistic is a mjor problem, just check with yammy or bmw how slow a repair is. so one of the two 600s for logistic reason

I think that Kawasaki's market share is more like 65% of bikes bigger than 250cc.

Actually the total market for greater than 151cc bikes is 11 010; Kawasaki has a 32% piece of that pie (and Honda has 49%). If you wish to exclude the 250 class (CBR 250R, Ninja 250R, KLX/D-Tracker 250, Gusto/Harde/Lifan/Platinum whatever, Tiger Boxer 250, Piaggio/Vespa whatever), you have no more than 4514 bikes. If 1/2 of all of the Kawasaki sales are their 250 series (It is not broken down, so 1774 may be an underestimate), between Yamaha, Triumph, Suzuki, Harley Davidson, Ducati, and BMW there were 946 sold/registered and thus Kawasaki would have, in my estimation, at most 65% of the BIG bike market--still a good position to be in. However, considering what Honda did when they released the CBR 250 and sold 1,5 for every single >250cc Kawasaki model, perhaps a small production run (say some 10 units a day or so?) might be what they are looking for. The brand recognition is great and competition is good. But as pointed out earlier, ALL >151cc bikes makes up 0,55% of the total Thai market (yes, that's a bit more than ¹/₂ of 1 percent!), I do not know how important we really are to the manufacturers.

[flying]

That wasn't me is was BigBikeBKK

Ooops

Edited January 16, 2012 by flying

[KRS1]

Total Th market is 1-2000 units a year as I recall, of which kwaker has 90% or so. imported honda at +450k baht wont stir this up much, and if it is imorted parts logistic is a mjor problem, just check with yammy or bmw how slow a repair is. so one of the two 600s for logistic reason

I think that Kawasaki's market share is more like 65% of bikes bigger than 250cc.

Actually the total market for greater than 151cc bikes is 11 010; Kawasaki has a 32% piece of that pie (and Honda has 49%). If you wish to exclude the 250 class (CBR 250R, Ninja 250R, KLX/D-Tracker 250, Gusto/Harde/Lifan/Platinum whatever, Tiger Boxer 250, Piaggio/Vespa whatever), you have no more than 4514 bikes. If 1/2 of all of the Kawasaki sales are their 250 series (It is not broken down, so 1774 may be an underestimate), between Yamaha, Triumph, Suzuki, Harley Davidson, Ducati, and BMW there were 946 sold/registered and thus Kawasaki would have, in my estimation, at most 65% of the BIG bike market--still a good position to be in. However, considering what Honda did when they released the CBR 250 and sold 1,5 for every single >250cc Kawasaki model, perhaps a small production run (say some 10 units a day or so?) might be what they are looking for. The brand recognition is great and competition is good. But as pointed out earlier, ALL >151cc bikes makes up 0,55% of the total Thai market (yes, that's a bit more than ¹/₂ of 1 percent!), I do not know how important we really are to the manufacturers.

Honda may have sold 1.5 CBR 250's for every one Ninja 250, but this is only first year sales figures. I expect that number to drop or even out next year, once they find out the CBR 250 is slower than the Ninja 250 and the word starts to get around.

Manufacturers rely on several different models to generate revenue, the profit on a 250cc + bike is much higher than the profit from a 'Click'...

Up here in CNX, there are freaking Ninja 250's everywhere, hardly ever see a CBR 250 unless its from a rental place.

[thaicbr]

Total Th market is 1-2000 units a year as I recall, of which kwaker has 90% or so. imported honda at +450k baht wont stir this up much, and if it is imorted parts logistic is a mjor problem, just check with yammy or bmw how slow a repair is. so one of the two 600s for logistic reason

I think that Kawasaki's market share is more like 65% of bikes bigger than 250cc.

Actually the total market for greater than 151cc bikes is 11 010; Kawasaki has a 32% piece of that pie (and Honda has 49%). If you wish to exclude the 250 class (CBR 250R, Ninja 250R, KLX/D-Tracker 250, Gusto/Harde/Lifan/Platinum whatever, Tiger Boxer 250, Piaggio/Vespa whatever), you have no more than 4514 bikes. If 1/2 of all of the Kawasaki sales are their 250 series (It is not broken down, so 1774 may be an underestimate), between Yamaha, Triumph, Suzuki, Harley Davidson, Ducati, and BMW there were 946 sold/registered and thus Kawasaki would have, in my estimation, at most 65% of the BIG bike market--still a good position to be in. However, considering what Honda did when they released the CBR 250 and sold 1,5 for every single >250cc Kawasaki model, perhaps a small production run (say some 10 units a day or so?) might be what they are looking for. The brand recognition is great and competition is good. But as pointed out earlier, ALL >151cc bikes makes up 0,55% of the total Thai market (yes, that's a bit more than ¹/₂ of 1 percent!), I do not know how important we really are to the manufacturers.

Honda may have sold 1.5 CBR 250's for every one Ninja 250, but this is only first year sales figures. I expect that number to drop or even out next year, once they find out the CBR 250 is slower than the Ninja 250 and the word starts to get around.

Manufacturers rely on several different models to generate revenue, the profit on a 250cc + bike is much higher than the profit from a 'Click'...

Up here in CNX, there are freaking Ninja 250's everywhere, hardly ever see a CBR 250 unless its from a rental place.

Krs1. not everyone is as fascinated about top speed as you. Some people actually want a super responsive fuel economical everyday bike.

And the reason there are loads of Ninjettes up there is because it came 1st.

[dave_boo]

Total Th market is 1-2000 units a year as I recall, of which kwaker has 90% or so. imported honda at +450k baht wont stir this up much, and if it is imorted parts logistic is a mjor problem, just check with yammy or bmw how slow a repair is. so one of the two 600s for logistic reason

I think that Kawasaki's market share is more like 65% of bikes bigger than 250cc.

Actually the total market for greater than 151cc bikes is 11 010; Kawasaki has a 32% piece of that pie (and Honda has 49%). If you wish to exclude the 250 class (CBR 250R, Ninja 250R, KLX/D-Tracker 250, Gusto/Harde/Lifan/Platinum whatever, Tiger Boxer 250, Piaggio/Vespa whatever), you have no more than 4514 bikes. If 1/2 of all of the Kawasaki sales are their 250 series (It is not broken down, so 1774 may be an underestimate), between Yamaha, Triumph, Suzuki, Harley Davidson, Ducati, and BMW there were 946 sold/registered and thus Kawasaki would have, in my estimation, at most 65% of the BIG bike market--still a good position to be in. However, considering what Honda did when they released the CBR 250 and sold 1,5 for every single >250cc Kawasaki model, perhaps a small production run (say some 10 units a day or so?) might be what they are looking for. The brand recognition is great and competition is good. But as pointed out earlier, ALL >151cc bikes makes up 0,55% of the total Thai market (yes, that's a bit more than ¹/₂ of 1 percent!), I do not know how important we really are to the manufacturers.

Honda may have sold 1.5 CBR 250's for every one Ninja 250, but this is only first year sales figures. I expect that number to drop or even out next year, once they find out the CBR 250 is slower than the Ninja 250 and the word starts to get around.

Manufacturers rely on several different models to generate revenue, the profit on a 250cc + bike is much higher than the profit from a 'Click'...

Up here in CNX, there are freaking Ninja 250's everywhere, hardly ever see a CBR 250 unless its from a rental place.

That's 1,5 for every single Kawasaki model (all eight of them) greater than 250cc. Big difference than per Ninja 250.

You may be right about the sales figures leveling off though; how much of that will be across the board due to lost funds re the flood?

I'll let you stew in your self-righteous 'Ninja's faster' idealogy because you're just you.

Your post exposes your lack of knowledge about basic economics. It costs money to bring a new model to market. You have to pay for the design, testing, and certification of the model. Which do you suppose cost less per unit, amortizing a few basic changes over 300 000 bikes or a whole new design over 5 500? Even if one were to assume that a Click and a CBR 250 costs exactly the same to build, which we'll peg at 44 000 THB for a 10% profit on the Click and a whopping 127% on the CBR, how much of the aforementioned costs associated with bringing the CBR to market get resolved when Honda only made 303 856 000 THB profit on that one bike (versus the assumed ~1 320 000 000 THB for the Click)? And that is with a completely unrealistic expectation of margins on the CBR. If I had to actually hazard a guess, I'd say that the real profit is actually much closer to the Click than you'd like to think; but I don't have exact figures either.

In the central region I had never seen a Ninja 250 on the road until the last trip I took back in October. Had see several CBR's by that time though...you see how a single data point does not describe a trend?

[KRS1]

Total Th market is 1-2000 units a year as I recall, of which kwaker has 90% or so. imported honda at +450k baht wont stir this up much, and if it is imorted parts logistic is a mjor problem, just check with yammy or bmw how slow a repair is. so one of the two 600s for logistic reason

I think that Kawasaki's market share is more like 65% of bikes bigger than 250cc.

Actually the total market for greater than 151cc bikes is 11 010; Kawasaki has a 32% piece of that pie (and Honda has 49%). If you wish to exclude the 250 class (CBR 250R, Ninja 250R, KLX/D-Tracker 250, Gusto/Harde/Lifan/Platinum whatever, Tiger Boxer 250, Piaggio/Vespa whatever), you have no more than 4514 bikes. If 1/2 of all of the Kawasaki sales are their 250 series (It is not broken down, so 1774 may be an underestimate), between Yamaha, Triumph, Suzuki, Harley Davidson, Ducati, and BMW there were 946 sold/registered and thus Kawasaki would have, in my estimation, at most 65% of the BIG bike market--still a good position to be in. However, considering what Honda did when they released the CBR 250 and sold 1,5 for every single >250cc Kawasaki model, perhaps a small production run (say some 10 units a day or so?) might be what they are looking for. The brand recognition is great and competition is good. But as pointed out earlier, ALL >151cc bikes makes up 0,55% of the total Thai market (yes, that's a bit more than ¹/₂ of 1 percent!), I do not know how important we really are to the manufacturers.

Honda may have sold 1.5 CBR 250's for every one Ninja 250, but this is only first year sales figures. I expect that number to drop or even out next year, once they find out the CBR 250 is slower than the Ninja 250 and the word starts to get around.

Manufacturers rely on several different models to generate revenue, the profit on a 250cc + bike is much higher than the profit from a 'Click'...

Up here in CNX, there are freaking Ninja 250's everywhere, hardly ever see a CBR 250 unless its from a rental place.

Krs1. not everyone is as fascinated about top speed as you. Some people actually want a super responsive fuel economical everyday bike.

And the reason there are loads of Ninjettes up there is because it came 1st.

Please dont take guesses and assume what im fascinated in, you haven't a clue. I'd actually enjoy getting my hands on a CBR 250 to see what can be done to make it faster.

The CBR 250 came out before the Ninjettes with new paint, and there are loads of New Ninjettes rolling around up here.

[dave_boo]

Please dont take guesses and assume what im fascinated in, you haven't a clue. I'd actually enjoy getting my hands on a CBR 250 to see what can be done to make it faster.

The CBR 250 came out before the Ninjettes with new paint, and there are loads of New Ninjettes rolling around up here.

Loads with this paint job?

Or this paint job?

Or maybe this one?

Arranged chronologically of course....

[KRS1]

Total Th market is 1-2000 units a year as I recall, of which kwaker has 90% or so. imported honda at +450k baht wont stir this up much, and if it is imorted parts logistic is a mjor problem, just check with yammy or bmw how slow a repair is. so one of the two 600s for logistic reason

I think that Kawasaki's market share is more like 65% of bikes bigger than 250cc.

Actually the total market for greater than 151cc bikes is 11 010; Kawasaki has a 32% piece of that pie (and Honda has 49%). If you wish to exclude the 250 class (CBR 250R, Ninja 250R, KLX/D-Tracker 250, Gusto/Harde/Lifan/Platinum whatever, Tiger Boxer 250, Piaggio/Vespa whatever), you have no more than 4514 bikes. If 1/2 of all of the Kawasaki sales are their 250 series (It is not broken down, so 1774 may be an underestimate), between Yamaha, Triumph, Suzuki, Harley Davidson, Ducati, and BMW there were 946 sold/registered and thus Kawasaki would have, in my estimation, at most 65% of the BIG bike market--still a good position to be in. However, considering what Honda did when they released the CBR 250 and sold 1,5 for every single >250cc Kawasaki model, perhaps a small production run (say some 10 units a day or so?) might be what they are looking for. The brand recognition is great and competition is good. But as pointed out earlier, ALL >151cc bikes makes up 0,55% of the total Thai market (yes, that's a bit more than ¹/₂ of 1 percent!), I do not know how important we really are to the manufacturers.

Honda may have sold 1.5 CBR 250's for every one Ninja 250, but this is only first year sales figures. I expect that number to drop or even out next year, once they find out the CBR 250 is slower than the Ninja 250 and the word starts to get around.

Manufacturers rely on several different models to generate revenue, the profit on a 250cc + bike is much higher than the profit from a 'Click'...

Up here in CNX, there are freaking Ninja 250's everywhere, hardly ever see a CBR 250 unless its from a rental place.

That's 1,5 for every single Kawasaki model (all eight of them) greater than 250cc. Big difference than per Ninja 250.

You may be right about the sales figures leveling off though; how much of that will be across the board due to lost funds re the flood?

I'll let you stew in your self-righteous 'Ninja's faster' idealogy because you're just you.

Your post exposes your lack of knowledge about basic economics. It costs money to bring a new model to market. You have to pay for the design, testing, and certification of the model. Which do you suppose cost less per unit, amortizing a few basic changes over 300 000 bikes or a whole new design over 5 500? Even if one were to assume that a Click and a CBR 250 costs exactly the same to build, which we'll peg at 44 000 THB for a 10% profit on the Click and a whopping 127% on the CBR, how much of the aforementioned costs associated with bringing the CBR to market get resolved when Honda only made 303 856 000 THB profit on that one bike (versus the assumed ~1 320 000 000 THB for the Click)? And that is with a completely unrealistic expectation of margins on the CBR. If I had to actually hazard a guess, I'd say that the real profit is actually much closer to the Click than you'd like to think; but I don't have exact figures either.

In the central region I had never seen a Ninja 250 on the road until the last trip I took back in October. Had see several CBR's by that time though...you see how a single data point does not describe a trend?

ok i read that '1.5' wrong.

Thanks for analyzing the R&D cost Dave, but do you realize R&D cost are involved for every new model ever made?

Have they recovered those cost for other models yet? Or are they still trying to recover the cost of the Click since its inception? ...Time.

Does Honda use an outsourced R&D team, or do they already have an in house R&D team that is already on the payroll? Do they have their own capabilities to produce prototypes in house or do they outsource?

[KRS1]

Please dont take guesses and assume what im fascinated in, you haven't a clue. I'd actually enjoy getting my hands on a CBR 250 to see what can be done to make it faster.

The CBR 250 came out before the Ninjettes with new paint, and there are loads of New Ninjettes rolling around up here.

Loads with this paint job?

Or this paint job?

Or maybe this one?

Arranged chronologically of course....

A lot of the new red ones actually, a few of the last ones in your post as well. Friend has the first one in your post, one of the special edition models.

And it smokes his friends CBR 250 everytime.

Edited January 17, 2012 by KRS1

[dave_boo]

ok i read that '1.5' wrong.

Thanks for analyzing the R&D cost Dave, but do you realize R&D cost are involved for every new model ever made?

Have they recovered those cost for other models yet? Or are they still trying to recover the cost of the Click since its inception? ...Time.

Does Honda use an outsourced R&D team, or do they already have an in house R&D team that is already on the payroll? Do they have their own capabilities to produce prototypes in house or do they outsource?

I would hope that the Click has been paid off; assuming the massive numbers they have sold, the shared components amongst their other scooter lines, and the fact that the model has been on market since late '08, I'd say it would be a safe bet.

Honda, AFAIK, already has an in house R&D. Does not obviate the fact those workers need to be paid, insured, etc (I could be wrong and they are actually Thai workers and the costs are much lower than I am assuming). There is still the prototyping, testing, validating, and certification costs that quickly empties coffers of money.

[dave_boo]

A lot of the new red ones actually, a few of the last ones in your post as well. Friend has the first one in your post, one of the special edition models.

And it smokes his friends CBR 250 everytime.

Thanks for the clarification; the 2011 CBR model did have a lead time of 9 or 10 months on the graphics updated 2012 Ninja model. Interesting there are loads of them sold in Chiang Mai in the last 3-4 months...there were 1149 >250cc bikes sold by Kawi in the last 4 months of 2011 versus 1181 Hondas sold...wonder how many of those were the updated ER-6* models.